Training camp roster/Media Day (merged)

If you say so, I mean he's not great at any position obviously, I just prefer him using his quickness at the 4 (taking match-ups into consideration obviously) rather than being basically a floating body at the 3.

Anyway by the bye.
If he is able to truly become a knock down shooter, and also lose some weight/get quicker (as the new paleo fad takes over the NBA, in lockstep with Lebron), and also improve his rebounding and motor, his size could be an advantage at the 3. It's the same old same old: we need defense and shooting out of our role players.

I think he may simply be taking a while to realize that's what he'll be in the NBA. Not James Worthy. Which is all fine, part of his growth process. Let's see if he can morph into that.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I prefer DWill not to play. Can't shoot, can't play defense, takes plays off, doesn't have a post game, doesn't really have a dribble drive game, doesn't rebound well even at the SF spot and certainly not from the PF spot.....but is athletic. I see zero upside at this point in his career. If he had better BB IQ, I'd have a different opinion on his upside but he doesn't have that either and that is the straw that breaks the camels back on what upside he may have.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I'm having a good feeling about how this group of guys are going to mutually benefit from playing with each other. I am ready and waiting to give credit to management for assembling a group of players that are focused on the TEAM.

I feel like last year and the offseason was about clearing out dead weight. We may be young, but we do have some high character veterans. I think people underestimate the value of this.

I have a funny feeling this team might surprise some people this year. I have not had that in years.
Suprise on the upside or the downside? What kind of record do you think is surprising to most?
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Interesting discussion on 1140 this morning. I guess Vivek came out and said that whereas it was about culture last year, this year it's about winning, and that's what he expects. The pressure is on the GM and the coach to get er done this year.
 
Interesting discussion on 1140 this morning. I guess Vivek came out and said that whereas it was about culture last year, this year it's about winning, and that's what he expects. The pressure is on the GM and the coach to get er done this year.
Why not? Other than Cousins and Thompson (am I missing someone?), these are the players they obtained one way or the other.

I also think they know they will have nowhere near the honeymoon period that the original Sacramento Kings teams did. Progress on the court has to match or exceed what is going on off the court (arena).
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Williams has to be able to make the 3 point shot consistently. That's the most important aspect of his game. That's what opened everything up for him in college. If defenders have to close out hard on his jump shot, then he can punish them with athletic drives to the rim. Or he can draw in defenders and then kick it to someone else for an easier shot. Even if you intend to play him as a small ball 4, he's not going to dominate anybody on the interior. The idea there is to get an extra shooter on the floor to open up the lane for DeMarcus and Rudy. So whichever position you see him playing this season, getting confident in that 3 point shot and knocking it down consistently is the key for him in furthering his NBA career and contributing to wins for us.
 
Interesting discussion on 1140 this morning. I guess Vivek came out and said that whereas it was about culture last year, this year it's about winning, and that's what he expects. The pressure is on the GM and the coach to get er done this year.
Which again causes me to question Vivek's understanding of roster construction. This team is still a mid-30 win team unless everything comes together where we might hit the low 40's. But that would still be a big miss of the playoffs in the west. Is that success for him?

I just really worry that a team awful at d last year did next to nothing to address that and is apparently thinking we just need minor moves now to be a winner.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Which again causes me to question Vivek's understanding of roster construction. This team is still a mid-30 win team unless everything comes together where we might hit the low 40's. But that would still be a big miss of the playoffs in the west. Is that success for him?

I just really worry that a team awful at d last year did next to nothing to address that and is apparently thinking we just need minor moves now to be a winner.
I don't think Vivek is expecting 40-50 wins this year. I think he's just saying that his guys will start being held accountable for their performance this year. So if we win 35 games, the discussion will be about what went wrong, why didn't we succeed, and what do we need to do differently next year to build on that. Ben, Ray, and Nik were drafted by this front office. Pete also acquired Collison, Sessions, Hollins, Moreland, Landry, Gay, Williams, Evans, and Casspi. It wouldn't have been fair to judge these guys based on a roster they inherited from the old front office, but it's more than fair now. And I think it was a good move to lay down the gauntlet and let everyone know that winning is expected from here on out. So do your jobs well everybody.
 
I don't think Vivek is expecting 40-50 wins this year. I think he's just saying that his guys will start being held accountable for their performance this year. So if we win 35 games, the discussion will be about what went wrong, why didn't we succeed, and what do we need to do differently next year to build on that. Ben, Ray, and Nik were drafted by this front office. Pete also acquired Collison, Sessions, Hollins, Moreland, Landry, Gay, Williams, Evans, and Casspi. It wouldn't have been fair to judge these guys based on a roster they inherited from the old front office, but it's more than fair now. And I think it was a good move to lay down the gauntlet and let everyone know that winning is expected from here on out. So do your jobs well everybody.
My concern is from day 1 Vivek has been all about offense, exciting basketball and fast pace. He never seemed to understand our franchise players game or the defensive side of the ball. It feels like we've gone after offense and speed and from his comments, he thinks we've mostly done what's needed. I'm not suggesting he thinks we're ready for a championship but I just don't get the feeling he understands the game completely and he seems to be too involved for someone that doesn't.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
My concern is from day 1 Vivek has been all about offense, exciting basketball and fast pace. He never seemed to understand our franchise players game or the defensive side of the ball. It feels like we've gone after offense and speed and from his comments, he thinks we've mostly done what's needed. I'm not suggesting he thinks we're ready for a championship but I just don't get the feeling he understands the game completely and he seems to be too involved for someone that doesn't.
I think he is relying on Malone to create a defense out of guys who individually are not the greatest. Having 5 guys working as a defensive team is probably better than one great defensive player - I hope.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
My concern is from day 1 Vivek has been all about offense, exciting basketball and fast pace. He never seemed to understand our franchise players game or the defensive side of the ball. It feels like we've gone after offense and speed and from his comments, he thinks we've mostly done what's needed. I'm not suggesting he thinks we're ready for a championship but I just don't get the feeling he understands the game completely and he seems to be too involved for someone that doesn't.
All the more reason to hold everyone accountable. It's public record now what happened in the draft room right before the Stauskas pick. If the up-tempo, no positions, keep the ball moving, offense-first approach doesn't work then let's hope everyone involved has the fortitude to look in the mirror and learn from their mistakes. I don't think this is a terrible team though. I think we have a true franchise center, a capable leader at PG, a proven scorer on the wing, and a lot of young talent which could thrive given the right guidance. And let's be honest, no matter what numbers you're looking at, there's always going to be a degree of uncertainty around building a team. I think he's just as eager as we are to get this season started and see how all that work in the off-season is going to pay off.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I don't think Vivek is expecting 40-50 wins this year. I think he's just saying that his guys will start being held accountable for their performance this year. So if we win 35 games, the discussion will be about what went wrong, why didn't we succeed, and what do we need to do differently next year to build on that. Ben, Ray, and Nik were drafted by this front office. Pete also acquired Collison, Sessions, Hollins, Moreland, Landry, Gay, Williams, Evans, and Casspi. It wouldn't have been fair to judge these guys based on a roster they inherited from the old front office, but it's more than fair now. And I think it was a good move to lay down the gauntlet and let everyone know that winning is expected from here on out. So do your jobs well everybody.
With Cuz, Gay IT on the floor last year the Kings were around .500 ball. So why wouldn't Vivek expects at least .500 ball? Surely, Vivek pays attention to those numbers.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Which again causes me to question Vivek's understanding of roster construction. This team is still a mid-30 win team unless everything comes together where we might hit the low 40's. But that would still be a big miss of the playoffs in the west. Is that success for him?

I just really worry that a team awful at d last year did next to nothing to address that and is apparently thinking we just need minor moves now to be a winner.
Vivek has talked about deferring to his "braintrust" on basketball decisions. If this team can't break .500 ball he may look to reorganize that braintrust at the end of the year.
 
Which again causes me to question Vivek's understanding of roster construction. This team is still a mid-30 win team unless everything comes together where we might hit the low 40's. But that would still be a big miss of the playoffs in the west. Is that success for him?

I just really worry that a team awful at d last year did next to nothing to address that and is apparently thinking we just need minor moves now to be a winner.
I am confident that this team has the ability to win 40 games if they perform what they've been preaching all off season. These little moves that we've completed are all the little things that count.. again, it's always about the little things.

Imagine the potential ball movement this team could have... We finally have someone else who can handle the ball. Do you remember seeing Gay horribly horribly being the pointforward with our 2nd lineup because we had no true ball handler aside from IT? Now our options range from Collison to Sessions to Stauskas, and to McCallum(greatly improved in SL).
I think Cuz and Gay both being on the USA team gave them that feel of what it means to win..and win big. I fully expect Cuz and Gay to both buy into ball movement and share the ball. Hopefully we will be seeing a lot more it this season with IT not at pg.

We've acquired a good backup C in Hollins. He will only play 9-10 minutes, but with his time on the floor, he can be that rim protector/defensive rebounder the kings need.

I might just have a lot of optimism, but it's crazy not to see the potential we have in the team this year. We have a legit bench which will make a ton of difference.
 
I think he is relying on Malone to create a defense out of guys who individually are not the greatest. Having 5 guys working as a defensive team is probably better than one great defensive player - I hope.
As much as I agree you still need 1 of a rim protecter or a wing stopper otherwise I agree defense is team like the spurs and bulls do.
My hope is from now on we acquire defenders only We have enough offense.
 
My concern is from day 1 Vivek has been all about offense, exciting basketball and fast pace. He never seemed to understand our franchise players game or the defensive side of the ball. It feels like we've gone after offense and speed and from his comments, he thinks we've mostly done what's needed. I'm not suggesting he thinks we're ready for a championship but I just don't get the feeling he understands the game completely and he seems to be too involved for someone that doesn't.
Well, I'll disagree with your premise a bit here. An owner can think whatever he likes when it comes to offense vs defense and style of play. It's on the GM and FO to ensure the strengths of the roster and style of play are conducive to winning. It's not a problem, what the owner thinks, if your GM has a backbone and clear plan.

The larger issue here IMO is that Vivek obviously wants to and will judge this team on wins/losses this year, but our GM and FO haven't done all that much to address the defensive side of the ball or overall lack of talent, where make no mistake about it, we're one of the less talented teams in the West. The West is stacked. I can see us finishing ahead of Utah, LAL, Den and Minn, but after that it's going to be tough. And I don't think it's a Vivek problem but more a culture problem thus far about the lack of attention towards the defensive end. And what's worrying is not what Vivek says, but that both PDA and Malone recently have only been talking about offense, although Malone did say Collison and Hollins were brought in for their defense, although they're likely to be disappointed if that's how they feel.

The philosophy coming out of our FO is up and down, positionless basketball. That's not a recipe for winning. But whether Vivek thinks it is or isn't, it's on PDA and our FO whether to implement that philosophy. PDA is the one providing the tools for success. It's Malone's job to use those tools effectively. If they're the wrong tools to win, it's on PDA and our FO. If they're the right tools and we don't win, it's more on Malone. Right now I don't see the tools needed to win more than 30-35 games. After winning 28 in each of the last two seasons, 30-35 wouldn't really be much of an improvement and when decisions like passing Lopez onto Por, offering Landry a big deal and drafting two SG's back to back falling on our FO are part of the reason for being in this situation, they've contributed to what appears to be the prospect of only modest improvement.

We've got two legit or proven NBA starters and barely any defensive presence. We're in the West. Our "positionless" basketball usually requires going small. If Vivek is going to judge this thing on wins/losses, he's going to have more grey hair come the winter.

This morning isn't the first time he's said this either. There's no fudging about it, he clearly is judging this team on wins and losses.

“Last year, when the season started, I said it wasn’t going to be about wins and losses,” Vivek Ranadive stated. “When I came here and we bought the team, there was dysfunction in the locker room, there wasn’t mutual respect, the arena was literally falling apart, the roof was falling down. So we brought in a new team, we restored stability, restored respect, we put in a strong culture. But this year, let’s be clear, it is about wins and losses.”

http://aroyalpain.com/2014/09/28/vivek-ranadive-says-sacramento-kings-season-wins-losses/

I will say, this strongly appears very similar to past incarnations of Den and GS. It wasn't until GS realized they needed defense, physicality and 3&D role players that they saw real improvement.
 
Well, I'll disagree with your premise a bit here. An owner can think whatever he likes when it comes to offense vs defense and style of play. It's on the GM and FO to ensure the strengths of the roster and style of play are conducive to winning. It's not a problem, what the owner thinks, if your GM has a backbone and clear plan.

The larger issue here IMO is that Vivek obviously wants to and will judge this team on wins/losses this year, but our GM and FO haven't done all that much to address the defensive side of the ball or overall lack of talent, where make no mistake about it, we're one of the less talented teams in the West. The West is stacked. I can see us finishing ahead of Utah, LAL, Den and Minn, but after that it's going to be tough. And I don't think it's a Vivek problem but more a culture problem thus far about the lack of attention towards the defensive end. And what's worrying is not what Vivek says, but that both PDA and Malone recently have only been talking about offense, although Malone did say Collison and Hollins were brought in for their defense, although they're likely to be disappointed if that's how they feel.

The philosophy coming out of our FO is up and down, positionless basketball. That's not a recipe for winning. But whether Vivek thinks it is or isn't, it's on PDA and our FO whether to implement that philosophy. PDA is the one providing the tools for success. It's Malone's job to use those tools effectively. If they're the wrong tools to win, it's on PDA and our FO. If they're the right tools and we don't win, it's more on Malone. Right now I don't see the tools needed to win more than 30-35 games. After winning 28 in each of the last two seasons, 30-35 wouldn't really be much of an improvement and when decisions like passing Lopez onto Por, offering Landry a big deal and drafting two SG's back to back falling on our FO are part of the reason for being in this situation, they've contributed to what appears to be the prospect of only modest improvement.

We've got two legit or proven NBA starters and barely any defensive presence. We're in the West. Our "positionless" basketball usually requires going small. If Vivek is going to judge this thing on wins/losses, he's going to have more grey hair come the winter.

This morning isn't the first time he's said this either. There's no fudging about it, he clearly is judging this team on wins and losses.

“Last year, when the season started, I said it wasn’t going to be about wins and losses,” Vivek Ranadive stated. “When I came here and we bought the team, there was dysfunction in the locker room, there wasn’t mutual respect, the arena was literally falling apart, the roof was falling down. So we brought in a new team, we restored stability, restored respect, we put in a strong culture. But this year, let’s be clear, it is about wins and losses.”

http://aroyalpain.com/2014/09/28/vivek-ranadive-says-sacramento-kings-season-wins-losses/

I will say, this strongly appears very similar to past incarnations of Den and GS. It wasn't until GS realized they needed defense, physicality and 3&D role players that they saw real improvement.
I think we're in violent agreement.
 
In general, it's going to be a rude awakening to judge us on wins/losses when we're likely running out a Collison/Stauskas backcourt with Sessions/Ben off the bench. That might just be the worst defensive backcourt in the entire West. Team defense only helps so much. The top defensive coaches still rely on using some of the better defensive players.

It's a problem when a 33 yr old Hinrich would immediately be our best backcourt defender, at either the 1 or the 2.
 
In general, it's going to be a rude awakening to judge us on wins/losses when we're likely running out a Collison/Stauskas backcourt with Sessions/Ben off the bench. That might just be the worst defensive backcourt in the entire West. Team defense only helps so much. The top defensive coaches still rely on using some of the better defensive players.

It's a problem when a 33 yr old Hinrich would immediately be our best backcourt defender, at either the 1 or the 2.
And the front court isn't much better. When they talk about an undrafted guy likely to spend most of the year in Reno (Moreland) and a career journeyman (Hollins) as the moves intended to shore up one of the worst interior d's in the league, that's a problem.
 
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2014/9/28/6857353/ryan-hollins-eric-moreland-defense

Moreland, the undrafted rookie out of Oregon State, was consistent and played within his means in Summer League. He knows what he is good at and sticks to that.

"I want to be a defensive anchor, I think that will be a good goal, just to be one of those vocal guys out here that helps the team on defense. We struggled on defense last year and I feel I can help as far as on the defensive end," Moreland said.

Moreland knows the NBA is not college and certainly not Summer league when it comes to blocking shots.

"It's different at the pro level because they'll get a chance to read that and skip the ball and give it to my man who I just left, but you just have to have timing to know exactly when to go get it," said the 6'10'' Moreland.

As for the strategy of shot blocking, "I'm sure there is an art to it, it's timing and will. Like honestly, some of them I just want to go get it when I get a chance to do it," Moreland said.

Despite comments from D'Alessandro about easing Moreland in, he said Cousins reached out to him and told him that he is going to be a "big part" of what the Kings are doing this season. Cousins is pleased with the additions of both Moreland and Hollins.

"We got a lot more athletic at the big man position. We picked up guys like Ryan Hollins, Eric Moreland. Those guys can pick up the full court, help speed up the tempo of the game," Cousins said.

Kings training camp just began, so the amount of playing time either Hollins or Moreland get this season (most likely off the bench) is completely up in the air at this point. If Moreland does get playing time though he has some weighted personal goals - he wants to block LeBron James and Blake Griffin.

"I want to get LeBron and I want to get Blake. I feel like I might get dunked on byDeAndre Jordan though, honestly. I think he's going to get me," Moreland said. "I really want Blake, honestly."
I love him already.
 
The larger issue here IMO is that Vivek obviously wants to and will judge this team on wins/losses this year, but our GM and FO haven't done all that much to address the defensive side of the ball or overall lack of talent, where make no mistake about it, we're one of the less talented teams in the West. The West is stacked. I can see us finishing ahead of Utah, LAL, Den and Minn, but after that it's going to be tough. And I don't think it's a Vivek problem but more a culture problem thus far about the lack of attention towards the defensive end. And what's worrying is not what Vivek says, but that both PDA and Malone recently have only been talking about offense, although Malone did say Collison and Hollins were brought in for their defense, although they're likely to be disappointed if that's how they feel.

The philosophy coming out of our FO is up and down, positionless basketball. That's not a recipe for winning. But whether Vivek thinks it is or isn't, it's on PDA and our FO whether to implement that philosophy. PDA is the one providing the tools for success. It's Malone's job to use those tools effectively. If they're the wrong tools to win, it's on PDA and our FO. If they're the right tools and we don't win, it's more on Malone. Right now I don't see the tools needed to win more than 30-35 games. After winning 28 in each of the last two seasons, 30-35 wouldn't really be much of an improvement and when decisions like passing Lopez onto Por, offering Landry a big deal and drafting two SG's back to back falling on our FO are part of the reason for being in this situation, they've contributed to what appears to be the prospect of only modest improvement.

We've got two legit or proven NBA starters and barely any defensive presence. We're in the West. Our "positionless" basketball usually requires going small. If Vivek is going to judge this thing on wins/losses, he's going to have more grey hair come the winter.

No optimism? Who says all teams need talent? Talent alone does not translate into wins. Chemistry translates into wins. If chemistry is not there, it would not even matter if we had 5 all stars on the roster right now. Look at Khawi Leonard for example. If he were on the Kings, his numbers would probably be inconsistent and we would all be calling for his head. He's known as a good player today because of the roster he's surrounded with.. he plays next to all time greats, but if him and his talents were here, it would all be a mess.

I think our team is already talented enough with Gay and Cousins. We just need surrounding role players to compliment and help them..which is what Pete D has been trying to do this off season.

The Kings FO has brought in players to mesh with each other. Keep in mind, Pete D is not done yet. He's still trying to make moves and get players. What qualifies as a starter? Is a PF who averages 10.4pts 6.6rebs 1.1blks a starter? Or is it the one averaging 11pts 5.1rebs? Both of these stats are starting PFs on teams who won over 40 games last season.

Oh and don't forget another thing...people would rather play in San Francisco than they would Sacramento. The Kings tried to get Iggy last year with a huge contract, but many people said he didn't even consider it.. Sacramento will always have a problem attracting FAs, but Pete did a great job in Sessions and Hollins. I also remember the Kings attempting to get Ryan Anderson..but he didn't want to be here..and he's even from Sacramento.
 
No optimism? Who says all teams need talent? Talent alone does not translate into wins. Chemistry translates into wins. If chemistry is not there, it would not even matter if we had 5 all stars on the roster right now.
Well, nothing says chemistry like having multiple guys competing for spots at 3/5 positions? After all, most of the successful teams in the league have that much uncertainty around roles and it really works for them .