Game -2: Sacramento Kings @ San Antonio Spurs, 10/20/14 5:30 PST 8:30 EST

The_Jamal · Oct 20, 2014

This is the sort of minute distribution I imagine we'll be seeing a lot of this season. Cuz and Gay get 35+ MPG and everyone else hovers around 15-25 MPG, depending on who's playing well that night.

Missed Casspi and Stauskas big time out there. Tonight was a good example of what happens when a defense doesn't take your outside shooting seriously whatsoever.

HereWeBoogie · Oct 20, 2014

The_Jamal said:

The scary thing is only Stauskas will actually help the outside shooting. Omri is unbelievably inconsistent from 3. Collison and Stauskas are our only reliable 3pt options everyone else (Ben, Rudy, Sessions, Casspi) can hit them but cannot be relied on at all

DeMarcus better be prepared to endure another season of constant double and triple teams and not being rewarded with many assists when he finds the open man

dude12 · Oct 21, 2014

Wish I could have seen the game, looking at the box score, Landry finally did something. I like Landry and what he brings but admittedly, he has not looked very good. As someone else pointed out, there is no lift and he looks heavy to me.

I'm not a big fan of running out JT with the starting unit. Would rather see Evans in with Cousins and then JT and Landry off the bench. And I think I'd rather see Stauskas with the starting unit so that he can help space the floor and move the ball but I think Ben gets a majority of the minutes.

As far as floor spacing, I do think we can run out a unit of Cuz, Evans, Collison, Stauskas and Ben for periods of time to space the floor or replace Evans with Casspi for more space.

Seems like there are units we can put out there to satisfy what we need...not ideal but we have some different looks we can put out there....whether they are effective or not is another story.

206Fan · Oct 21, 2014

dude12 said:

Wish I could have seen the game, looking at the box score, Landry finally did something. I like Landry and what he brings but admittedly, he has not looked very good. As someone else pointed out, there is no lift and he looks heavy to me.

I'm not a big fan of running out JT with the starting unit. Would rather see Evans in with Cousins and then JT and Landry off the bench. And I think I'd rather see Stauskas with the starting unit so that he can help space the floor and move the ball but I think Ben gets a majority of the minutes.

As far as floor spacing, I do think we can run out a unit of Cuz, Evans, Collison, Stauskas and Ben for periods of time to space the floor or replace Evans with Casspi for more space.

Seems like there are units we can put out there to satisfy what we need...not ideal but we have some different looks we can put out there....whether they are effective or not is another story.

I think Stauskas should come off the bench and receive limited minutes. I don't want to force him to be the starter and have a similar year Ben did. The kings need to bring Stauskas in slowly. I wouldn't be surprised to see him only get 15 mpg.

MassachusettsKingsFan · Oct 21, 2014

Someone mentioned something about Casspi playing the 4 with Cousins. I originally thought (feared) we might see that, but I don't think we've seen much, if any, of Omri at the 4 this preseason. Seems highly unlikely. More likely that Gay plays the 4 with someone else (Omri or whoever) at the 3.

Either way, I'm starting to worry about Rudy Gay. He's been bad for much of this preseason, and if anyone on the team hasn't bought in to a more team oriented, passing offense, its been Gay. He's forced more than anyone else, and he's looked bad doing it.

Also, last night was a pretty good example why Omri has Williams beat in the rotation as far as i'm concerned. Omri doesn't have amazing numbers, but he makes things happen. It's hard to put into words, really, he just helps that bench unit. He's always out there mixing it up. Williams just vanishes if his offense isn't there.

It looks like Ben is the starter for now. He's been OK at best this preseason, but I am still far from sold on him. I would have gone with Nik.

Kingster · Oct 21, 2014

MassachusettsKingsFan said:

Yep. Gay has looked like the $1.9 million man, not the $19 million man.

KingMilz · Oct 21, 2014

MassachusettsKingsFan said:

That's the real Rudy Gay

Glenn · Oct 22, 2014

My worry about a motion offense or any kind of offense that requires team play is about Rudy. The optimistic side of me thinks that he is a great athlete and maybe can catch on. I hope. I can't imagine that the coaching staff thought this would be easy. Makes me want Adelman but that ship has sailed a long time ago. My point is I think a very good coach could solve the problem. It won't happen immediately

miltonap · Oct 22, 2014

I never felt as though Rudy Gay was the missing piece to this team. I don't like his style of play. Too iso-heavy. I'm hoping we can ship him off for someone more team oriented with a high bball iq. I want him to do well so his trade value goes up.

KingMilz · Oct 22, 2014

miltonap said:

Yeah this is what I'm hoping for to package him for 2 or so really solid players, I still think a team that thinks they are one piece away could swap with us, maybe someone like the Nuggets for Gallo and Mozgov or something along those lines, there's a lot of possibilities since he's still productive and could be a game changer for a team that's "1 piece away". I'm sure we could land a elite shot blocker in return for Rudy expiring deal.

randymoss1881 · Oct 22, 2014

Let it of guys I agree I don't like his style but nobody is trading for him unless we take back salary and more importantly the FO has committed to him.

Tetsujin · Oct 22, 2014

Jesus. The way you guys are talking Rudy is the second coming of Andres Nocioni

NewArena · Oct 22, 2014

Tetsujin said:

yea, lets get into the regular season first, please lol the guy just came off of pretty good play with team
USA. cut em some slack

now if this continues in to the first week or so of the regular season, then I'll understand some of
the negativity.

The_Jamal · Oct 22, 2014

HereWeVivek said:

He might be inconsistent, but I'd be willing to bet Casspi will be around 35% from 3pt land 40 games in. And that's sadly far better than anyone we had on the team last year.

206Fan · Oct 22, 2014

miltonap said:

That's actually a pretty nice trade, but I'm not sold on Gallo's health. I'd offer Gay+D-Will for Gallo+Mozgov

I'm giving Gay to a little before the trade deadline.. he's been pretty bad this preseason and in camp USA.

KingMilz · Oct 22, 2014

206Fan said:

I'm pretty sure Denver would have to include Wilson Chandler to make the salaries match and they would be getting destroyed in that deal if they did

206Fan · Oct 22, 2014

andremiller07 said:

I thought about Chandler, but it would make the deal too lopsided. Maybe we'll just keep D-Will. I don't realistically see how a deal for Gallo would work. Too many Q marks are surrounded by his health

Capt. Factorial · Oct 22, 2014

The_Jamal said:

I can't speak for 40 games in, but on the season we actually had several players at or above that level.
Jimmer: .493 (0.9 3PTM/g)
McCallum: .373 (0.5 3PTM/g)
Outlaw: .350 (0.7 3PTM/g)
Thomas: .349 (1.8 3PTM/g)

and don't forget
Salmons: .381 (0.9 3PTM/g)

Casspi was also at 0.9 makes per game last year.

This year I'd like to see all three of Stauskas, Ben, and Collison outperform Casspi from three, and I don't think that's unreasonable. (I'd like to see Gay do it, too, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.)

The_Jamal · Oct 22, 2014

Capt. Factorial said:

The issue there was that Thomas was the only consistent player who got playing time the whole year. And 3 of them weren't guys you go spot in the corner to get space for DeMarcus and Rudy.

It's going to make a huge difference having guys who can legit space the floor for our offensive efficiency.

gunks · Oct 22, 2014

Tetsujin said:

A lot of us were wary of the trade to begin with. True, PDA got rid of a lot of roster dead weight.....But Rudy is a fool's gold player if there ever was one. 1st option talent, 3rd option heart. Memphis improved after getting rid of Rudy. Toronto improved after getting rid of Rudy.

He is playing for a contract. Dude is going to chuck this season.

I'm hoping he can chuck at around 46% from the field, but I wont hold my breath.

The real disaster will be if PDA blows our cap resigning Rudy. I'd much rather we ship that expiring out. But hey, it wouldnt be a Kings offseason without a talent bleed!

Alas...Its way too soon for all this conjecture. I should go to bed.

Bricklayer · Oct 23, 2014

gunks said:

You know, I get REALLY tired of the Rudy Gay narrative too.

First of all, Memphis ain't done crap without him. That's been an idiotic narrative from the beginning. Gay was having a crap year, his worst year, he may even have been hurting them that ONE YEAR. But nothing that has happened in Memphis since his departure was anything other than what was happening anyway. They consistently got better while he was there,and did no more than keep it up when he left. And then last year fell off to a significant degree because they didn't have him to pick up the slack with an aging Randolph and an injured Gasol. Here were their records the last 6 years:

2008-09: 24 wins
2009-10: 40 wins
2010-11: 46 wins
2011-12: 51 wins (on pace for -- strike season)
2012-13: 56 wins (Gay traded midseason)
2013-14: 50 wins.

Yes, obviously trading a guy in the middle of their 56 win season is the reason they got better every year he was there before that.

Secondly, yeah yeah, cute stat how Memphis got better (for 2 months) and Toronto got better when he left.

You know what else oddly happened that nobody mentions?

Toronto got better when he ARRIVED. 16-30 before he arrived. 18-18 afterwards.
Sacramento got better when he ARRIVED. 5-15 when he arrives. 23-39 the rest of the way. Damn near .500 in games in which he played with Cuz and IT. 19-21 or some such.

Its a dumb narrative. He's a talented dude. If you don't happen to have a dude as talented as that to fill a major role of COURSE he makes you better. Of course he does. That does not mean that he's a perfect blend. It does not mean he would be great in a roleplayer role or certain offenses. But it does mean that you can flat out win 50 games with this guy as a major weapon. We know this because it has already happened.

Glenn · Oct 23, 2014

Bricklayer said:

Yes. The bottom line for me is that although you may listen to offers of which there may be none, you don't trade him. I have been through too many Kings' scenarios where the Kings have a stud and then trade him away or let him go because of <insert reason>. Talent is hard to find and he is in his prime and is not injured.

I will pick him as the guy we argue about most of the season. Has to be someone.

King Baller · Oct 23, 2014

Glenn said:

You could be right G, I was thinking this years Fall Guy would be one of the Veteran PG's. Reke and IT are now filling key roles with other teams so they are out. It seems like the prerequisite is a player that is very good like Gay, so he is a good candidate to be the target.

Kingster · Oct 23, 2014

Bricklayer said:

It hasn't happened because he wasn't a major weapon with Memphis. He was at best the third or fourth option - a nice role player on that team. It's all about how much he's paid. At anywhere close to $19 million he's considerably overpaid imo. Will he take substantially less to be with the Kings? I highly doubt it. The only scenario in which I see that happening is if the Kings play great basketball prior to the mid-season trade deadline and are legitimately competing for the playoffs. Otherwise, he's marking time.

More than any other player, Gay is the guy I'm keying on this year. He's going to have a large say in how well the motion offense works, or doesn't. He also could put Malone in some compromising situations in which he has to make an either/or decision to keep Gay happy (and individually effective) or to buy in totally to the motion offense. In my opinion, Malone can't have it both ways. He's got to be all in on the motion offense; otherwise the motion offense become more rhetoric than reality and it loses credibility in the player's minds.

The Hammer · Oct 23, 2014

In my opinion, it's Cuz who has the power to bring Gay on board. At a certain point, leadership has to come from the court, from a player, and in our case it MUST come from Cuz. That's how our whole team is set up. You think Adelman was solely responsible for creating the buy-in environment. No. It started with Vlade. Gay will stay if and only if Cuz becomes an effective leader of this team, giving us a shot at team cohesion, which I do believe Gay recognizes as necessary to be a winning team. It just has to be present. Gay is no IT.

pshn80 · Oct 23, 2014

The Hammer said:

I agree that Gay's team effectiveness depends to a large degree on Cuz as does the overall team effectiveness does. The Kings team does Cuz and therefore itself no favor right now by fielding the SGs they have now. I expect a lot out of Cuz to make this team click but we owe him at least a journeyman SG and it doesn't look promising in these next say 20 games or maybe even this season. Trade to solve this need, now.

Chubbs · Oct 23, 2014

It looks like the IT fans have decided to make Rudy their sworn enemy. I think that's where all the blame for whatever happens will be directed.

Gay has been on many winning teams. The whole narrative is pretty absurd, and as Brick pointed out, not based in any objective reality. He made us better last year.

The problem, of course, is the SGs and PF situation. But I anticipate a lot of misguided venom at Rudy, who is what he is.

Not a major weapon in Memphis? He led them in scoring in 2011-2012, and was leading them in scoring at the time of the trade. In 2010-2011 he was 2nd on the team, 19.8 ppg to Zbo's 20.1. He was at worst the 2nd option on those wining teams. He was absolutely not a role player by any normal definition of the term.

swisshh · Oct 23, 2014

Gay and ZBo were the bailout offense Memphis had when their O went RIP often at the end of games. Now it's just ZBo and closing out on offense has sort of been a problem for them.

Rudy's main problem is that he's overpaid. He was moved because of his contract.

King Baller · Oct 23, 2014

Kingster said:

It hasn't happened because he wasn't a major weapon with Memphis. He was at best the third or fourth option - a nice role player on that team. It's all about how much he's paid. At anywhere close to $19 million he's considerably overpaid imo. Will he take substantially less to be with the Kings? I highly doubt it. The only scenario in which I see that happening is if the Kings play great basketball prior to the mid-season trade deadline and are legitimately competing for the playoffs. Otherwise, he's marking time.

More than any other player, Gay is the guy I'm keying on this year. He's going to have a large say in how well the motion offense works, or doesn't. He also could put Malone in some compromising situations in which he has to make an either/or decision to keep Gay happy (and individually effective) or to buy in totally to the motion offense. In my opinion, Malone can't have it both ways. He's got to be all in on the motion offense; otherwise the motion offense become more rhetoric than reality and it loses credibility in the player's minds.

I just checked basketball-reference.com and there was never a year (except as a rookie) when Rudy Gay was not the second leading scorer for Memphis. First was Randolph and the Big Fella scored only by a point or so more than Rudy.

See it here: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/

Capt. Factorial · Oct 23, 2014

Chubbs said:

I may not be reading carefully enough, but it certainly didn't jump out at me that there has been a faction shift in that direction.

That said...

Do we really have to split into pro-Rudy and anti-Rudy factions? I know there's a fundamental human tribal response and we're preprogrammed to split everybody into "us" and "them" but after all the rancor over IT the last two years, can we just skip that part where we label another group and then take potshots them? Just for a year? Please?

It's cool to have an opinion. It's cool to argue with somebody who opposes your opinion. That's what message boards are for. But when you start labeling people and bringing pre-existing grudges into it then both sides get all closed-minded and defensive and it just becomes so much picking at a scab so it never heals.

Game -2: Sacramento Kings @ San Antonio Spurs, 10/20/14 5:30 PST 8:30 EST

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