Rondo suspension

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If Rondo sees two guys hugging on the street and he goes up and calls them "****ing faggots" and goes off on them, then I can assume Rondo is a crappy person and homophobic. If Rondo calls a guy that he has some history with a ****ing ****** in the heat of the moment, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was a stupid mistake.

Eh, I don't necessarily unreasonable to conclude that Rondo is a "crappy person" in either scenario. I'd definitely consider him to be a likely homophobe in the first scenario, and allow for the possibility of nuance in the second, but I don't think that either scenario is an example of "non-crappy" behavior.

 

[SacKings384]

Eh, I don't necessarily unreasonable to conclude that Rondo is a "crappy person" in either scenario. I'd definitely consider him to be a likely homophobe in the first scenario, and allow for the possibility of nuance in the second, but I don't think that either scenario is an example of "non-crappy" behavior.

Both crappy, undoubtedly. But not equally crappy, imo.

 

[bajaden]

Hate is a fact of human existence, it will always exist in our society, in all societies.

The question here is whether this was hate for a single man or hate for a group. I'm leaning toward hate for a man, accompanied by the language to express it.

As an educational point btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(unit)

Even the word itself is not as inherently magical as many make out. Most don't think these things through anymore, but its the hatred for a group of people that the word represents that makes it vile. Take away that hatred from the user and its just a brusiing nastygram that shouldn't be used but is apropos of not much.

Some of the deleted comments in this thread stray too far into politics and whatnot, but raise good points of proportionality. There are actual hate crimes committed every day in this country, let alone around the world. There are political parties who make homophobia a plank, there are extremist preachers who will tell you that every American soldier who dies does so because of gay people, there are countries where they will cut off your head if you're discovered to be gay.

And then there is pissed off Rajon Rondo using a playground slur against a man he doesn't like. Its a bad look and he shouldn't have done it, but people acting like its the end of the world quite frankly haven't lived in that world much. If Rondo went after a gay guy in a park we would be having a different conversation. If he posted a dismissive tweet on Gay Pride Day it would be more indicative of hate for a group. But Rondo got into an argument with a man he has issues with and dropped a couple of bombs in it. Let he or she who has never said something they shouldn't have in an argument stand up.

God I hate when I agree with you, but well said. I doubt that there's anyone on this forum that hasn't said something they wanted to take back after saying it. Got knows, and believe me, he does know, that I've said more than my share, and I regret most, but not all of them. Rondo was upset, and he said what he thought was the most hurtful thing he could say. Inexcusable? Yes, its inexcusable. Unforgivable? No, not unforgivable. Would I have made a better apology in this circumstance? You betcha! But we're not little cookie cutter people. We don't all think the same way, or react emotionally the same, and that's a good thing most of the time. That's what freedom is all about. The freedom to say and do what we want, as long as what we say and do doesn't harm others.

And that's where the debate starts. Ironically, in the end, Rondo will probably be the one harmed the most. Not Kennedy! Kennedy will now be held up as some sort of hero for his bravery, and the next player with a complaint will think twice about what he says to him. Rondo shot himself in the foot, and may have put a target on his back. Right now, Vlade is hiring experts to investigate whether there is an Indian burial site under the arena, and if so, can the curse follow the team to the new arena? Anyway, with my checkered past, I'm the last person to pass judgement on Rondo. What he did was stupid, but beyond that, I don't know him well enough to judge him as a person.

 

[bajaden]

being a hothead has nothing to do with it.

Maybe it's just me but there are lines you don't cross even if you're pissed off. If you do end up crossing that line, there is a good chance you've already had that **** inside you. This is coming from a pretty big hothead btw.

If you have gone through your entire life without crossing that line, then you should be issued wings. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that. I grew up in the Wellston area of St. Louis, same area that McLemore comes from. We were the last white family on the block, and all my friends were black. That didn't stop a group of black teenagers from kicking the hell out of me because I was white while I was waiting for a bus. Was I angry and pissed off? Your damm right I was, and I said some things that were hurtful to some of my black friends. Most forgave me, and some didn't. Does that mean I have a black soul and that I'm loaded with hate. NO! As the bible says, "Judge not, lest you be judged".

I think it's fine to judge what Rondo said, but we should be careful about judging him as a person. We don't know him as a person. If were so quick to pass judgement, maybe we should ask ourselves why.

 

[itzcoatl]

Yeah, the Kings showed up in Mexico City with half the team looking like a bunch of drunks and getting their a** handed to them by the Celtics, but you're "pretty confident" that Kennedy was doing lousy job. Please....

I personally missed the game, but I recall reading various fan opinions that the officiating crew was not doing a great job. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

 

[peacelate]

What Rondo did was inexcusable and deserved the suspension, but this entire situation is being blown out of proportion. It's not like he went full Tim Hardaway and uttered anti-homophobic remarks.

This is what happens when you live in a politically correct world where judgmental people pretend like they have halos around their heads.

 

[ESP47]

The social justice warrior PC crowd always makes me laugh. Have any of you worked on a job with men who joke around? Have any of you gone to school or been on a sports team? Have any of you been out of the house at any point in your life?

Rondo how dare you for using a word that I've said plenty of times in my life. You said it publicly and I said it privately so I think you should get all your money taken away and be reprimanded by your job . As for me? I should be high fived by my peers for calling you out for something I've also done but didn't do under the spotlight. Big difference there. Many people heard you say it and not as many people heard me say it. Therefore I am a good person and you are full of hate!

Am I doing it right?

 

[peacelate]

being a hothead has nothing to do with it.

Maybe it's just me but there are lines you don't cross even if you're pissed off. If you do end up crossing that line, there is a good chance you've already had that **** inside you. This is coming from a pretty big hothead btw.

Did Rondo go on a ant-homophobic rant? You sure are making a pretty big leap of judgment based on a moment of frustration.

 

[VF21]

NEW STATEMENT

Apology Statement from Kings PG Rajon Rondo
Yesterday, I said that my words toward Bill Kennedy were unacceptable and did not reflect my feelings toward the LGBT community. Some have interpreted my comments as a non-apology. I want to be clear, from the bottom of my heart that I am truly sorry for what I said to Bill. There is no place on or off the court for language that disrespects anyone's sexual orientation. That is not who I am or what I believe and I will strive every day to be a better person.”

 

[bajaden]

I would hope that this apology will appease everyone and we can get back to talking about what he does on the court. Wait, he did that on the court. Well, you know what I mean. But I doubt it. There's always someone who wants another piece of flesh. I hope I'm wrong about that.

 

[Double-K]

NEW STATEMENT

Apology Statement from Kings PG Rajon Rondo
Yesterday, I said that my words toward Bill Kennedy were unacceptable and did not reflect my feelings toward the LGBT community. Some have interpreted my comments as a non-apology. I want to be clear, from the bottom of my heart that I am truly sorry for what I said to Bill. There is no place on or off the court for language that disrespects anyone's sexual orientation. That is not who I am or what I believe and I will strive every day to be a better person.”

See? Brick was right. Now it just sound like an assistant from his camp or the organization itself wrote it.

 

[Livinthedream]

If you have gone through your entire life without crossing that line, then you should be issued wings. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that. I grew up in the Wellston area of St. Louis, same area that McLemore comes from. We were the last white family on the block, and all my friends were black. That didn't stop a group of black teenagers from kicking the hell out of me because I was white while I was waiting for a bus. Was I angry and pissed off? Your damm right I was, and I said some things that were hurtful to some of my black friends. Most forgave me, and some didn't. Does that mean I have a black soul and that I'm loaded with hate. NO! As the bible says, "Judge not, lest you be judged".

I think it's fine to judge what Rondo said, but we should be careful about judging him as a person. We don't know him as a person. If were so quick to pass judgement, maybe we should ask ourselves why.

What did you take away from your experience? You were attacked because you were white, so you attacked your black friends in retaliation (that's how I understood your story). Some forgave. Some did not. Did you forgive? Some of your black friends who didn't forgive now have a story to tell of a white friend who turned on them. The cycle goes on.

I'm not a political correct fanatic. But I know right from wrong. I always say do what you want. I'll impact people on an individual basis in my life. I'm not out to change everyone. But if I were running a large organization, I wouldn't want my company culture to tolerate this. Would have nothing to do with telling society how to act. So I think the suspension is fine. Being that Rondo is a public figure, he just has to deal with the fall out of his actions.

 

[SacTownKid]

I see the organization is still desperately in need of someone capable of handling their representation with the media.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What Rondo did was inexcusable and deserved the suspension, but this entire situation is being blown out of proportion. It's not like he went full Tim Hardaway and uttered anti-homophobic remarks.

Funny that you would compare those two in particular: even counting Rondo's recent stronger apology, I don't think anyone can dispute that Hardaway has gone much further in terms of educating himself about LGBTQ issues, and making amends for his actions.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

This thing has gotten way out of hand. It's been all over the media and was a hot topic on all national sports radio stations.

I don't recall Kobe's incident where he used gay slurs was portrayed anywhere as negatively as Rondo's. Kobe got fined for $100k, Rondo got suspended and will lose more than that amount of money from his salary. The NBA needs to have uniform rules about these things. If using the "f" word is such a big deal, why wasn't kobe ejected from that game immediately?

From now on, are players going to have to be extra careful around Kennedy because they don't know what is not acceptable to him or to the league? Gays want to be treated as equals, but there is seemingly special treatment here. People use figures of speech when they speak, especially went they are emotional. Seriously, most of the people that are being so politically correct on the media have used the "f" word at some point in life with out meaning it in a literal sense. Rondo likely used that word as a form of anger towards Kennedy, but not using it by it's actual meaning. When you call someone an A hole, you are not really saying that he is that literally.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't recall Kobe's incident where he used gay slurs was portrayed anywhere as negatively as Rondo's. Kobe got fined for $100k, Rondo got suspended and will lose more than that amount of money from his salary. The NBA needs to have uniform rules about these things. If using the "f" word is such a big deal, why wasn't kobe ejected from that game immediately?

1. Refresh my memory: did Bryant direct a gay slur at a gay person?
2. You're conflating two issues: Rondo wasn't ejected for the slur, either.

From now on, are players going to have to be extra careful around Kennedy because they don't know what is not acceptable to him or to the league?

It doesn't seem to me that "Don't call people ******" requires any extra care in particular.

Gays want to be treated as equals, but there is seemingly special treatment here. People use figures of speech when they speak, especially went they are emotional. Seriously, most of the people that are being so politically correct on the media have used the "f" word at some point in life with out meaning it in a literal sense. Rondo likely used that word as a form of anger towards Kennedy, but not using it by it's actual meaning. When you call someone an A hole, you are not really saying that he is that literally.

As defenses go... this is not a very good one.

 

[Telemachus]

I would hope that this apology will appease everyone and we can get back to talking about what he does on the court. Wait, he did that on the court. Well, you know what I mean. But I doubt it. There's always someone who wants another piece of flesh. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[peacelate]

Funny that you would compare those two in particular: even counting Rondo's recent stronger apology, I don't think anyone can dispute that Hardaway has gone much further in terms of educating himself about LGBTQ issues, and making amends for his actions.

Well, I think what Hardaway did was much worse. He went on a 5-10 rant about hating an entire group of people while Rondo directed a slur at one person, not that it makes it okay.

I would think Hardaway would have to go further to prove he was contrite.

 

[bajaden]

What did you take away from your experience? You were attacked because you were white, so you attacked your black friends in retaliation (that's how I understood your story). Some forgave. Some did not. Did you forgive? Some of your black friends who didn't forgive now have a story to tell of a white friend who turned on them. The cycle goes on.

I'm not a political correct fanatic. But I know right from wrong. I always say do what you want. I'll impact people on an individual basis in my life. I'm not out to change everyone. But if I were running a large organization, I wouldn't want my company culture to tolerate this. Would have nothing to do with telling society how to act. So I think the suspension is fine. Being that Rondo is a public figure, he just has to deal with the fall out of his actions.

Did I learn from the experience? Yes, but not then. Then I was a young teenager who grew up in a black neighborhood. All my friends were black, and they treated me like I was just another one of their black friends. I got the crap kicked out of me by a group of racist thugs that didn't know me. How do I know they were racist? Well, they were shouting Whitey, Honky and other endearing terms. So then, I was angry, and said some things I shouldn't have. I got into a fight with a friend. I won't go into the gory details, but I did some things I wish I could go back and change. But I can't. The friends that forgave me were my real friends.

Did I forgive the people that attacked me? No! I'll leave that to god. Am I still angry at them? No! I understand where they grew up. I grew up there as well. They blamed everything that was bad in their life on the rich white people. It doesn't matter whether their right or wrong, that's what a lot of them believe, and I understand that. A lot of them have no future, or at least think they have no future, and they have to blame something or someone for that. So I understand why they are the way they are, but that doesn't mean I have to forgive them. Maybe, just maybe if they had come to me and asked for forgiveness, I would have changed my mind. I will tell you this. You can be as idealistic as you want, but that all changes quickly when your laying on the ground and 7 or 8 guys are kicking the hell out of you. It wasn't my only encounter. I was stabbed in the hand once trying to break up a fight. It was a fun place to grow up.

By the way, to clarify. I didn't attack my friends in retaliation, I got into with them when they started to defend some of the individuals that attacked me that they knew. I just had the crap kicked out of me and I wasn't in the mood.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

1. Refresh my memory: did Bryant direct a gay slur at a gay person?
2. You're conflating two issues: Rondo wasn't ejected for the slur, either.

It doesn't seem to me that "Don't call people ******" requires any extra care in particular.

As defenses go... this is not a very good one.

Rondo has said he did not know Kennedy is gay. With that in mind, both Rondo and Kobe said it out of anger and not meant to use the word literally.

Actually, you are confusing my point. If calling someone the "f" word is such a big deal, then it should always be a big deal. It shouldn't be more acceptable in Kobe's case just because that ref happens to be straight. If you are going to take the word as a hateful slur, then it should always be that. If it's going to be a punishable offense, it should bear the same punishment whenever it's committed.

That was an opinion, not a defense. There is nothing really to defend.

 

[macadocious]

He should have just DMed me and I would have wrote if for him, and this would be over right now.

I have spoken to and directly apologized to Mr. Kennedy for my comments. I was angry after being kicked out of a competitive game. My anger caused me to lash out toward the man who I believe incorrectly ejected me. I used words during the heat of the moment that I knew would hurt Mr. Kennedy. I regretted those words the moment I said them. I want to be clear, from the bottom of my heart that I am truly sorry for what I said to Bill. There is no place on or off the court for language that disrespects anyone's sexual orientation. That is not who I am or what I believe and I will strive every day to be a better person. I will grow from this, and I hope that my indiscretion will help others see that this is never an appropriate way of speaking to another human being. My words toward Bill Kennedy were unacceptable and did not reflect my feelings toward the LGBT community. I just hope over time Bill and the LGBT community can come to forgive my actions, they are truly regrettable.


That statement ^^^^ right there shuts everyone up. It's end it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, I think what Hardaway did was much worse. He went on a 5-10 rant about hating an entire group of people while Rondo directed a slur at one person, not that it makes it okay.

I would think Hardaway would have to go further to prove he was contrite.

I didn't say it wasn't worse; I wasn't the one who brought up the comparison. All I said was that, if you're going to compare the two, then it should fairly be pointed out that Hardaway went out of his way to educate himself, and to make amends, and I don't really see Rondo going any further with this than his apology, the sincerity of which I am not interested in analyzing.

 

[peacelate]

I didn't say it wasn't worse; I wasn't the one who brought up the comparison. All I said was that, if you're going to compare the two, then it should fairly be pointed out that Hardaway went out of his way to educate himself, and to make amends, and I don't really see Rondo going any further with this than his apology, the sincerity of which I am not interested in analyzing.

So Tim Hardaway went from hating the LGBT community to a supporter in the span of a week?

 

[Livinthedream]

Did I learn from the experience? Yes, but not then. Then I was a young teenager who grew up in a black neighborhood. All my friends were black, and they treated me like I was just another one of their black friends. I got the crap kicked out of me by a group of racist thugs that didn't know me. How do I know they were racist? Well, they were shouting Whitey, Honky and other endearing terms. So then, I was angry, and said some things I shouldn't have. I got into a fight with a friend. I won't go into the gory details, but I did some things I wish I could go back and change. But I can't. The friends that forgave me were my real friends.

Did I forgive the people that attacked me? No! I'll leave that to god. Am I still angry at them? No! I understand where they grew up. I grew up there as well. They blamed everything that was bad in their life on the rich white people. It doesn't matter whether their right or wrong, that's what a lot of them believe, and I understand that. A lot of them have no future, or at least think they have no future, and they have to blame something or someone for that. So I understand why they are the way they are, but that doesn't mean I have to forgive them. Maybe, just maybe if they had come to me and asked for forgiveness, I would have changed my mind. I will tell you this. You can be as idealistic as you want, but that all changes quickly when your laying on the ground and 7 or 8 guys are kicking the hell out of you. It wasn't my only encounter. I was stabbed in the hand once trying to break up a fight. It was a fun place to grow up.

By the way, to clarify. I didn't attack my friends in retaliation, I got into with them when they started to defend some of the individuals that attacked me that they knew. I just had the crap kicked out of me and I wasn't in the mood.

Fair enough. And I didn't intend for you to forgive the guys who did it. I wanted to know if you could separate the individuals from the group and not make it about the group as a whole. Sounds like you were able to.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Everything gets blown up by the media these days. Heck, even a dirty look can now "mean" something. Rondo shouldn't have said it, knows he shouldn't have said it, and now has apologized for it. It's really time to turn the page on this thing. It's too bad it had to come to a suspension, but it is what it is. Chalk it up to a life lesson.

To drop a bit of controversy, never underestimate someone's desire to shine the spotlight on themselves. That is all I will say on that!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Rondo has said he did not know Kennedy is gay.

I do not believe him. YMMV.

Actually, you are confusing my point. If calling someone the "f" word is such a big deal, then it should always be a big deal. It shouldn't be more acceptable in Kobe's case just because that ref happens to be straight. If you are going to take the word as a hateful slur, then it should always be that. If it's going to be a punishable offense, it should bear the same punishment whenever it's committed.

Unfortunately, you'd have to take that up with the guy who was in charge when Bryant said it. It'd be tough to hold Silver responsible for how Stern chose to discipline people.

That was an opinion, not a defense. There is nothing really to defend.

Your opinion reads like you think that saying ****ed up **** should not be as harshly criticized, if it's said "in the heat of the moment," because it's not "literal." That certainly seems like a defense of saying ****ed up **** to me. I tend to feel like what you say "in the heat of the moment" is more revelatory of your actual character than what you say when you're calm and composed, most of the time.

 

[Bricklayer]

He should have just DMed me.

Couldn't. He was off questing with these guys:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...-masters-guide-to-the-2014-15-season-20141028

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So Tim Hardaway went from hating the LGBT community to a supporter in the span of a week?

No, but I don't recall people being willing to let Hardaway 'move on' after a week, either. TTBOMR, people weren't willing to accept that Hardaway was willing to grow from his experience until he actually demonstrated a willingness to grow. Is there any reason in particular why I should show Rondo more benefit of the doubt than I did Hardaway?

 

[Bricklayer]

No, but I don't recall people being willing to let Hardaway 'move on' after a week, either. TTBOMR, people weren't willing to accept that Hardaway was willing to grow from his experience until he actually demonstrated a willingness to grow. Is there any reason in particular why I should show Rondo more benefit of the doubt than I did Hardaway?

Yes there is.

Rondo never at any point came out and said he has a problem with gay people, and we have virtually no evidence he does. Our grand total of evidence Rondo has a problem with the entire gay community = 1 insult, in a heated moment, aimed at an enemy.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yes there is.

Rondo never at any point came out and said he has a problem with gay people, and we have virtually no evidence he does. Our grand total of evidence Rondo has a problem with the entire gay community = 1 insult, in a heated moment, aimed at an enemy.

So, whether or not I give someone benefit of the doubt is a question of scale? Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it.