[Grades] Grades v. Mavs 11/30/2015

If DeMarcus Cousins never misses another game this season , do we make the playoffs?

  • Yes

    Votes: 70 77.8%

  • No

    Votes: 20 22.2%
  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
O

ovrush

Bench
#61
#61
The_Jamal said:
What do you get for Collison though? He's a hard piece to trade and get an equal value back.
Click to expand...
Well, again I'm not sold on trading Collison yet, I would need to see more of the same from Curry before being on board with moving him. The security of having Collison behind Rondo is a HUGE deal. That being said, I wouldn't move him for anything other than a guy who could walk in the door and start for us at the 2 and be a solid improvement. This means a full sized 2 guard that can hit open shots, doesn't need the ball, and can defend.

Looking through the league for guys like that is rough enough, but when you add into it that you need to find a team who's interested in a PG, it get's trickier.

There's really only 2 teams that would make sense to me to trade with - the T-Wolves trying to get Lavine or KMart, or the Jazz trying to get Burke. my thinking is below

East
76ers have no one that fits
Nets don't have anyone that I'd give up Collison for
The Bucks could use help at PG, but I don't think we can craft a package around Collison that would get us Middleton, and there's no one else on that roster that fits and is realistic
Wizards don't need a pg,
Knicks don't have anyone that fits,
Pistons only have KCP who they wouldn't trade and is pretty similar to BMac,
Magic have Peyton and wouldn't give up Oladipi for Collison (he's not a shooter anyways),
Celtics have 800 pgs,
Charlotte has Batum who we can't get for Collison,
Hawks don't need a PG,
Raptors don't need a PG,
Heat don't need a PG and don't have anything that fits,
Bulls don't need a pg unless they're looking to move past Rose and they won't give up Butler and everyone else that might work is too old to land Collison
Pacers don't have anyone that fits
Cavs don't need a PG

West
Lakers don't need PG
Pelicans have one of my favorites at SG who's underpaid and a difference maker... they could potentially play Collison next to an oversized PG in Holliday, but you couldn't play Reke next to Rondo without massive spacing issues plus something about not being able to go back.
Nuggets don't have anyone better than we have at the 2
Blazers don't need a pg and don't have anyone that fits
Rockets - Brewer can't shoot and they don't really need a PG with Lawson and Beverly
T-Wolves - OK, maybe a fit here. Rubio is their guy, but it's his last year under contract, he's made of glass, and they have a record when he's out like the Kings have without Cousins. Kevin Martin might make sense, I would love to gamble and see if we could get them to send us Lavine for Collison though. Lavine is a PG, but a full sized one that could play next to Rondo. He's not a great shooter but is improving. T-wolves are pushing for the playoffs and COllison is needed insurance.
Suns don't need PGs
Jazz - Might make sense. Burks would be an upgrade for us, Collison would be an upgrade for them.
Mavs - Won't want Collison back, they tried him and didn't like him.
Griz - No one that's a fit
Clippers/Thunder/Spurs/Warriors - Not good trade partners
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#63
#63
68
53
38
30
68

Games Rondo has played in a full season since 2010. You do not trade Collison when Rondo has only been able to stay healthy for 1/2-3/4 of a season for the last 5 years.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#64
#64
This has nothing to do with this thread but I didn't know where to put it...

Espn has just proclaimed that (drum roll) Draymond Green is the best center in the NBA. Even for them, this is absolutely laughable. I would provide a link but it's insider information.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#65
#65
Sac.Kings said:
This has nothing to do with this thread but I didn't know where to put it...

Espn has just proclaimed that (drum roll) Draymond Green is the best center in the NBA. Even for them, this is absolutely laughable. I would provide a link but it's insider information.
Click to expand...
The position is only open because DeMarcus Cousins is the best point guard...
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#66
#66
ESP47 said:
68
53
38
30
68

Games Rondo has played in a full season since 2010. You do not trade Collison when Rondo has only been able to stay healthy for 1/2-3/4 of a season for the last 5 years.
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with your main point (Rondo is an injury risk making the back up PG position particularly important) but I've seen this comment before and I think the numbers are a little misleading without context.

For the first 4 years of his career, from 2006 to 2010, Rondo played in nearly every possible game:

2006/2007 78 out of 82 games
2007/2008 77 out of 82 games
2008/2009 80 out of 82 games
2009/2010 81 out of 82 games

His 5th season was the first time he missed any significant time. The 2011/2012 season was the lockout shortened season so there were only 66 games played. The following season is the one where he got injured mid-season:

2010/2011 68 out of 82 games
2011/2012 53 out of 66 games
2012/2013 38 out of 40 games (before season ending ACL injury)

He also missed 3 games that year due to suspension. So far we're talking about 475 games played out of a possible 516 before the ACL injury. As expected he missed most of the following season too recovering from injury. When he did come back to play in January 2014 Boston was already 14-27 having traded Garnett and Pierce in the off-season so there was little reason to push Rondo to play every day. Coach Stevens gave him regular rest and he ended up playing 30 out of the last 42 games.

2013/2014 30 out of 42 games (recovering from ACL injury)

He was traded in the middle of the 2014/2015 season, I split it up into two sections:

2014/2015 22 out of 23 games WITH BOSTON*
2014/2015 46 out of 52 games WITH DALLAS**

*The only regular season game he missed this year while still with Boston was because he stayed in Boston on Nov 8 to have screws removed from his surgically repaired wrist.

**He missed the Jan 14 game because Carlisle rested his starters after an OT win against us the night before (Nowitzki and Chandler didn't play either). He took a knee to the face in a game against Orlando on Jan 31 , fractured his nose and broke an orbital bone. Dallas decided to have him sit out until after the All-Star break, so he missed the next 6 games. He was suspended for the 2/25 game for arguing with Carlisle on the sideline in the previous game. He was rested one more game on 4/10 after the team locked up a playoff seed. I didn't count the suspension game or the two coach-mandated rest games.

So yes he has missed a lot of games over the past 5 seasons. Most of them are directly related to one devastating injury and subsequent recovery period. In fact, if we're just looking at last year he only missed 7 games due to injury and 6 of those were because of a freak accident.
 
Last edited:
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#67
#67
Answer to poll question:

IF DMC stays healthy and plays every game the rest of this season, the Kings will be comfortably in the #7 or #8 seed.

I think a 45-37 record would be obtainable if the Big 3 stays healthy the rest of the season. That means the Kings go 38W - 25 L the rest of the season.

This year, a 45-37 record could get the Kings in at # 7 in the West and a first round matchup against the aging Spurs! :D

GO KINGS!!! :)
 
M

Merdiesel

Starter
#68
#68
Seth should never be compared to his brother. It's just not fair to him. I think he could be the new B-Jax 2.0 though. Fan favorite who is scrappy and can make shots. Exactly what our bench needs.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#69
#69
ovrush said:
Well, again I'm not sold on trading Collison yet, I would need to see more of the same from Curry before being on board with moving him. The security of having Collison behind Rondo is a HUGE deal. That being said, I wouldn't move him for anything other than a guy who could walk in the door and start for us at the 2 and be a solid improvement. This means a full sized 2 guard that can hit open shots, doesn't need the ball, and can defend.

Looking through the league for guys like that is rough enough, but when you add into it that you need to find a team who's interested in a PG, it get's trickier.

There's really only 2 teams that would make sense to me to trade with - the T-Wolves trying to get Lavine or KMart, or the Jazz trying to get Burke. my thinking is below

East
76ers have no one that fits
Nets don't have anyone that I'd give up Collison for
The Bucks could use help at PG, but I don't think we can craft a package around Collison that would get us Middleton, and there's no one else on that roster that fits and is realistic
Wizards don't need a pg,
Knicks don't have anyone that fits,
Pistons only have KCP who they wouldn't trade and is pretty similar to BMac,
Magic have Peyton and wouldn't give up Oladipi for Collison (he's not a shooter anyways),
Celtics have 800 pgs,
Charlotte has Batum who we can't get for Collison,
Hawks don't need a PG,
Raptors don't need a PG,
Heat don't need a PG and don't have anything that fits,
Bulls don't need a pg unless they're looking to move past Rose and they won't give up Butler and everyone else that might work is too old to land Collison
Pacers don't have anyone that fits
Cavs don't need a PG

West
Lakers don't need PG
Pelicans have one of my favorites at SG who's underpaid and a difference maker... they could potentially play Collison next to an oversized PG in Holliday, but you couldn't play Reke next to Rondo without massive spacing issues plus something about not being able to go back.
Nuggets don't have anyone better than we have at the 2
Blazers don't need a pg and don't have anyone that fits
Rockets - Brewer can't shoot and they don't really need a PG with Lawson and Beverly
T-Wolves - OK, maybe a fit here. Rubio is their guy, but it's his last year under contract, he's made of glass, and they have a record when he's out like the Kings have without Cousins. Kevin Martin might make sense, I would love to gamble and see if we could get them to send us Lavine for Collison though. Lavine is a PG, but a full sized one that could play next to Rondo. He's not a great shooter but is improving. T-wolves are pushing for the playoffs and COllison is needed insurance.
Suns don't need PGs
Jazz - Might make sense. Burks would be an upgrade for us, Collison would be an upgrade for them.
Mavs - Won't want Collison back, they tried him and didn't like him.
Griz - No one that's a fit
Clippers/Thunder/Spurs/Warriors - Not good trade partners
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Lavine. He's not a bad shooter, just a reckless one. His shooting percentage goes up when he takes good open shots. I've always thought of Lavine as a play making SG. He's an excellent defender when he applies himself. Terrific athlete.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#70
#70
Merdiesel said:
Seth should never be compared to his brother. It's just not fair to him. I think he could be the new B-Jax 2.0 though. Fan favorite who is scrappy and can make shots. Exactly what our bench needs.
Click to expand...
I think Seth certainly made a case for more playing time. I don't know if he can sustain what he did against the Mav's, but his defense was above average in that game, and mostly, he played with a lot of energy. For a brief period, he made Belinelli and McLemore look like they were sleep walking. I'll excuse Belinelli since Karl said he was fighting the flu or something. If Curry can play like that on a regular basis, someone's minutes are going to be reduced, or perhaps gone.

By the way, Jimmer made his D-League debut last night and dropped 37 points on the other team. I saw the highlights, and Jimmer's ballhandling has dramatically improved. Maybe, just maybe there's still hope for him. I wish him the best...
 
FaStRmAn

FaStRmAn

Starter
#72
#72
Not that this is part of the discussion, but I have not been impressed by Kufos. He has so far been a marginally better big than Jason Thompson. I was hopeful that Kufos would be a significant upgrade in the big man rotation. I still have hope that WCS will be able to give a better contribution as the year goes on.
 
M

Merdiesel

Starter
#74
#74
bajaden said:
I think Seth certainly made a case for more playing time. I don't know if he can sustain what he did against the Mav's, but his defense was above average in that game, and mostly, he played with a lot of energy. For a brief period, he made Belinelli and McLemore look like they were sleep walking. I'll excuse Belinelli since Karl said he was fighting the flu or something. If Curry can play like that on a regular basis, someone's minutes are going to be reduced, or perhaps gone.

By the way, Jimmer made his D-League debut last night and dropped 37 points on the other team. I saw the highlights, and Jimmer's ballhandling has dramatically improved. Maybe, just maybe there's still hope for him. I wish him the best...
Click to expand...

He doesn't need to be a lock down defender, all he needs to do is become a disruption. Sacrificing your body to draw a charge can be the biggest momentum swing of a game. Do the little things and it will be come contagious.
 
N

notoriousBEN3

Bench
#75
#75
FaStRmAn said:
Not that this is part of the discussion, but I have not been impressed by Kufos. He has so far been a marginally better big than Jason Thompson. I was hopeful that Kufos would be a significant upgrade in the big man rotation. I still have hope that WCS will be able to give a better contribution as the year goes on.
Click to expand...
Both big guys seem a little lost out there at times to me. I thought Koufos would be a really nice sub for Cousins, much like Marcin Gortat was to Dwight some years back, but he seems to not be much of a priority on offense. I'd like to see us run a few plays for him when Cuz is out. He's not bad close to the hoop, but he's worthless a few feet out. His role seems a bit ill defined still, but that kind of goes for almost everyone at this point. I would also like to see WCS get a few plays on offense as well, even if it's just some Rondo lobs. I have liked what i've seen out of him as far as catching some of Rondo's passes, but it seems like he's trying so hard to stay out of the way, he's not anywhere near the hoop for put backs and such. I would like to see both the big guys get a little bit more of a look on offense. Not too much, but enough to keep the defense honest.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#76
#76
bajaden said:
I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Lavine. He's not a bad shooter, just a reckless one. His shooting percentage goes up when he takes good open shots. I've always thought of Lavine as a play making SG. He's an excellent defender when he applies himself. Terrific athlete.
Click to expand...
Why should we take a flyer on LaVine when 3/4 of Kings fans are impatient with McLemore? LaVine will make the same mistakes as Ben, and he'll only get sampled sized minutes.
We'd probably give him 15-20min and play him at SG/PG with our about 7-8 shots a game. We'd contain him and wouldn't let him play through his struggles like the Wolves do. There are times where he starts out 0-4. If Ben starts out 0-4, your best bet is that he doesn't see anymore shots until garbage time. When LaVine starts out 0-4, the Wolves give him more shots to work on it, and he'll probably finish the game 6-13.

Currently, LaVine is poor defender and would struggle guarding opposing SGs. Ben gets pooped on for being an above average defender.

His bball IQ has been improving, but it's probably still not league average.

I'd love LaVine on this team, but a lot of Kings fans expect READY NOW players. Bajaden, have you not seen those threads where people were pleading to practically give away Ben for free as long as he's not on this team?
 
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