George Karl's Wild Ride

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#32
Applying enough pressure that Vlade walks into his office, throws around some furniture and with Karl looking square at Vlade's bellybutton, tells him in no uncertain terms your two best players are built for the halfcourt.
Yes, and one of them is not playing.

I understand that fans had high hopes for this team, but I am not sure they have lost any games that they've been expected by anyone other than King's fans to win.

I apologize for being an optimist but I still think this can be a good season.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#33
I think that would be the 1oth coach sacked in as many years. Doesn't really matter who you're coach is when your front office and ownership aren't making smart decisions. Case in point you're talking about a coach that was just hired less then a year ago.
Not just that. This team has a history of changing their head coaches like no other team in the last decade. How many good coaches are going to come and coach here with that trend going on here?
 
#34
My issues besides his systems is that you don't get the feeling the team had when Malone was here, that they'd do anything for coach. That loyalty showed in how hard they played.

To get embarrassed last night and come back the same way isn't a great reflection of his ability to motivate guys.
 
#35
Rondo - scrub who can't shoot
Ben - scrub who can't play
Gay - scrub who can't lead
2k- scrub who is born to be a back up
Dmc - scrub that doesn't know how to stay healthy
DC - undersized scrub
Yep you guys are right trade everybody
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#36
I apologize for being an optimist but I still think this can be a good season.
Feel free to be an optimist, season is still young.

Don't mistake the complaints about Karl for not having Cuz as not having Cuz doesn't touch on issues with the system, rotations and apparent poor preparation/game planning defensively. Separate topics. No Cuz doesn't address those issues. Cuz however is good enough to cover those issues at times.
 
#38
I make an innocent newbie mistake of asking if it can get any "w....?" And look at what happens. I think this thread is extremely premature. Malone was fired with Cuz out (which many of us regret) and now some are demanding the same of Karl...that is not fair or just.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#39
I make an innocent newbie mistake of asking if it can get any "w....?" And look at what happens. I think this thread is extremely premature. Malone was fired with Cuz out (which many of us regret) and now some are demanding the same of Karl...that is not fair or just.
Don't take it too seriously. Over the past few years, the tradition of a "Fire Coach ______" thread has become ingrained. I doubt if Vlade is going to make any personnel decisions based on a single thread on a fan forum, even if it is Kingsfans.com :)
 
#40
Don't take it too seriously. Over the past few years, the tradition of a "Fire Coach ______" thread has become ingrained. I doubt if Vlade is going to make any personnel decisions based on a single thread on a fan forum, even if it is Kingsfans.com :)
Wasn't there a fire Malone thread?
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#41
Wasn't there a fire Malone thread?
Yes, and if one were to look into the archives, they'd probably be able to find a "Fire So-and-so" thread for every Kings coach all the way back to ole Rick.

Calling for the coach's head is a grand tradition in these parts!

:p
 
#42
I find it hard to distinguish the sarcasms in the thread.

Anyway, to me George is toying with around the lineup to see which groups click in a real NBA game, while he still have a reason to lose (i.e. DMC is injured). So I'll wait.
 
#43
I find it hard to distinguish the sarcasms in the thread.

Anyway, to me George is toying with around the lineup to see which groups click in a real NBA game, while he still have a reason to lose (i.e. DMC is injured). So I'll wait.
I hope this is the case. I don't want to fire Karl, but Why did we play the Griz at such a slow pace and the Suns at such a fast one? Do we take on the identity of the team we re playing and and try to best them at what they do best?
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#44
I'm willing to give Karl as well as Rudy/Rondo 20 games with a healthy Cuz to see what we have it were are 5-10 games below 500. it's time to pull the pin and trade Rudy/Rondo for players in the mold of Marcus Morris/Jae Crowder and a PG in the mold of George Hill and similar type players. If this scenario plays out I'm playing Willie 30mins + a game to develop him next to Cuz. To me the only 3 players worth keeping on the current roster if this does play out are Cuz/WCS and Collison (due to his deal being good).
 
#46
I'm willing to give Karl as well as Rudy/Rondo 20 games with a healthy Cuz to see what we have it were are 5-10 games below 500. it's time to pull the pin and trade Rudy/Rondo for players in the mold of Marcus Morris/Jae Crowder and a PG in the mold of George Hill and similar type players. If this scenario plays out I'm playing Willie 30mins + a game to develop him next to Cuz. To me the only 3 players worth keeping on the current roster if this does play out are Cuz/WCS and Collison (due to his deal being good).
I'm keeping Gay too. We saw how well Collison/Gay/Cousins worked together last year. I think it would be a mistake breaking that trio up.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. I was against the Rondo signing when it happened. That doesn't mean I don't think he can return to the level of play before his injuries (or at least close to it). It means even if he does return to that level of play, I still don't think he is a very good compliment with Cousins and Gay. He's too ball dominant and doesn't provide enough spacing for those two to operate. I would like to see Collison in a starting role again with those two next year. He plays solid defense, can spread the floor, score when needed, and help facilitate the offense. With him starting, we obviously lose his scoring punch off the bench. I would like to see us go after Jeremy Lin in the offseason. I would imagine he would use his player option and opt out of his $2.2 mil deal to get a bigger payday. If we could sign him, he would take over for Collison in that bench scoring role. Not to mention he is a solid 3pt shooter which would allow us to spread the floor at the PG spot for the entire game (giving Cousins and Gay more room to operate).

As for our SG situation, I've been trying to watch the Hawks as much as possible this year. Bazemore is looking more and more like the player I would hope he would become. He's got excellent size and length at SG (6'5" w/ a 7'0" wingspan), he's a solid athlete, defends very well, knocks down threes, and plays within himself. He would look very good as our starting SG. I hope we make a run at him in FA next year. If not, Courtney Lee is a UFA next year as well and he would be another solid 3 and D SG that could fill the void.

At SF, I think we're pretty much set with Gay, Casspi, & Butler. However, I'd like us to bring in a SF who is known as a better defender to give us more flexibility in certain matchups. For all of his issues off the court, grabbing a guy like Matt Barnes would be beneficial during times when we need to slow down a SF. Considering he's a local guy and that we're likely to be competitive by this time, perhaps a minimum deal is all that is warranted.

As for our big man situation, I'm perfectly okay with continuing on with a Cousins/Cauley-Stein/Koufos combination as long as Cauley-Stein is starting and we have one of Cousins or Koufos on the floor at all times. Cousins and Koufos should not be playing together for long stretches. I also really like Moreland, but I'd prefer him to be in that 5th big role. That leaves our 4th big. I don't think we have found this player yer, but I do think it would be wise for this big to be a stretch 4. We have almost every other skill covered through our other 4 bigs. It would be wise and help to balance the roster if we have a PF that could stretch the floor. If McLemore doesn't work out this year and we decide to move on, I'd like to see a trade of Mclemore for Jerebko. It works salary wise, and Jerebko is not getting much use with Johnson, Zeller, Olynyk, & Sullinger in front of him. Not to mention Boston is still looking to collect young assets. The trade obviously helps us now while it gives them a shot at developing a young player down the road.

I think this team would be much better than the one Vlade assembled for us this year:

PG - Collison/Lin/Curry
SG - Bazemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Barnes/Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein/Jerebko/Moreland
C - Cousins/Koufos

This team is much more balanced and is tailored to Cousins and Gay. What's the point of having star players if you're not going to build around them? Both Cousins and Gay have 3 shooters to spread the floor (Collison, Bazemore, Gay/Cousins) and a consistent lob threat (Cauley-Stein). The spacing should be much better which should limit turnovers and make the offense run much more smoothly. And if we can't steal an easy basket on the break with our excellent athletes (Collison, Bazemore, & Cauley-Stein), we can easily back it out and run it through Cousins and Gay. On defense, you have 4 players who are good to great defenders in the starting unit in Collison, Bazemore, Cauley-Stein, & Cousins. Rim protection would be solid with Cauley-Stein & Cousins roaming the paint, and Cauley-Stein helps us limit pick & roll effectiveness. This starting unit also has the ability to grow together as none of them will be very old next year (29, 27, 30, 23, & 26).

As for the bench, it would be spear headed by Lin, Belinelli, & Koufos with Casspi, Barnes, & Jerebko filling in here and there. We should have plenty of playmaking and scoring off the bench to give us one of the better benches in the league. Not to mention Barnes & Koufos would come in to give us some more toughness and defense. More importantly, our bench players continue to compliment our star players by being able to play off the ball and having the ability to knock down open 3s (Lin, Curry, Belinelli, Anderson, Casspi, Barnes, Butler, & Jerebko). All of those players would continue to help make things easy on the offensive end for Cousins and Gay while Koufos continues to clog the paint and clear the glass while Cousins is taking a breather.

If only, if only...
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#47
Karl can't go out and make shots or freethrows. Or run back on D or play D. And for Malone fans the nuggets are just 2-2
 
#50
I'm not ready to make ANY judgements regarding team, coach, rotations, or plays. It is far too early, and the schedule has been a real killer. Majority of the teams we have faced are playoff teams. The schedule tends to even out over time. In 20 games where are we? In 30 games? I agree that the trajectory is not good, but that doesn't mean the jet is gonna crash on takeoff. At any time they can pull up on the stick and shoot straight up and be flying high. At that point I will be cautioning those who will be thinking we are leaving the atmosphere. It's a long flight... relax and eat your peanuts....
 
#51
Yes, and if one were to look into the archives, they'd probably be able to find a "Fire So-and-so" thread for every Kings coach all the way back to ole Rick.

Calling for the coach's head is a grand tradition in these parts!

:p
I believe there was a fire Adelman thread as well... I may be mistaken.... Probably started by Alien Poison....(ie Aliene Voison)
 
#53
The thread is comical. However, there is a philosophy and scheme problem that many of us saw from the beginning. Put any name or description to it, but Karl is basically playing street ball. Read and react, dribble drive. It's freelance. It will only get you so far in the NBA in my opinion. It's also the reason Karl doesn't like younger players who need guidance. There is nothing to guide. React.

Same goes for the defense. Sag in the lane and switch everything. React and recover. Problem comes from when you're not good enough to recover. Or when you're opponent stands at the 3pt line and there is more ground to make up. Or constantly switch into unfavorable matchups. Clippers exploited this mercilessly.

We keep pointing the fingers at individual players. If we just trade this guy. If we had only kept that one. If we start this one it will all be better. But the reality is that Karl's style doesn't match our personnel.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#54
The thread is comical. However, there is a philosophy and scheme problem that many of us saw from the beginning. Put any name or description to it, but Karl is basically playing street ball. Read and react, dribble drive. It's freelance. It will only get you so far in the NBA in my opinion. It's also the reason Karl doesn't like younger players who need guidance. There is nothing to guide. React.

Same goes for the defense. Sag in the lane and switch everything. React and recover. Problem comes from when you're not good enough to recover. Or when you're opponent stands at the 3pt line and there is more ground to make up. Or constantly switch into unfavorable matchups. Clippers exploited this mercilessly.

We keep pointing the fingers at individual players. If we just trade this guy. If we had only kept that one. If we start this one it will all be better. But the reality is that Karl's style doesn't match our personnel.
I think that's all there really is to it. I'm not going to say Rondo doesn't belong yet, but the team looked better than this with DC starting last year with Cousins and Gay.
 
#56
Fire Vlade? No, he's doing a good job. The team is the one doing a lousy job. We could move to a half court game. We would lose anyway. Bench Ben. Been there done that. Sit down, pick a set of starters (your best players) and stick with them. Cuz isn't the problem and he is not the solution. Team, team, team. Pretend like you are going to have to win with 5 and pick 'em and play 'em. All will be well.
 
#58
Well firing Karl at this point would be dumb. I do think he needs to make adjustments and I think he knows it.

Anderson started last night and Ben came off the bench. Expect to see more of this and if Ben does not improve soon Curry will take his minutes.

I think Karl needs to switch up his defense and play zone from time to time. Also he needs to have two Bigs in at all times. And Rudy is not a Big. Last night Rudy got in foul trouble because he was banging with bigger players. Leave Gay at the 3 where he has a size advantage. Let Moreland and Acy play a few minutes to dish out and absorb some punishment. That is parts of a Bigs job

Lastly Rudy and DeMarcus need to get the ball closer to the basket. Both of them can operate in traffic and use their size to draw fouls. Rudy just needs to rise up and shoot the J. Big Cuz can use his size to clear space and put it in the hoop or pass to the open shooter.

My early assessment of the Dribble Drive is that it kind of sucks. But it is early and my criticism may be premature.

Where oh where is the pick and roll???
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#59
It's really too early to compare this anyway, but you're not necessarily making your point here. 2-2 is a better record than 1-4, and I think the majority of us would agree that our team is more talented.
I'm not sure we r more talented. Thats your assumption. FT says otherwise.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#60
Applying enough pressure that Vlade walks into his office, throws around some furniture and with Karl looking square at Vlade's bellybutton, tells him in no uncertain terms your two best players are built for the halfcourt, I gave you defensive pieces, if you look at you license plate when you walk out to your car, you'll notice is says CA on the back, not Colorado, so either stop with your pansy, non defensive, small ball system you brought over from the Rockies and use the players you have correctly, or this will be the last season you'll ever coach at the pro level.

Then end it by telling him in a thick Serbian accent, I know people you don't want to know.

That's a happy medium.
That sounds all well and good, but in reality, you either let a coach coach, or you fire him. No good coach worth his salt is going to let a GM, an owner, or anyone else dictate how he or she coaches a team. If anyone thinks that would work with Karl, they're crazy. The owner of the Nuggets demanded Karl play McGee, and Karl refused, and despite his winning season, he was fired. As for us playing a halfcourt type offense, there's not much chance of that until Cousins returns. As far as firing him goes, it's a ridiculous idea. You want Cousins to stay here? Do you think he'll be willing to do that if you fire his coach five games into the season. How do you think the national media would react. Once again we'd be the laughing stock of the NBA. Do you really think (not you) that any reputable coach would want to come here?

Karl is one of the best coaches in the NBA if you just measure wins and losses. You don't fire a coach with his reputation five games into the season. You have to give him some time to work this out