We've got to get in the habit of writing J. Murray and D. Murray or at least put Kentucky or Washington in there so we can distinguish between them in context because both are lottery picks this year, both are in play for our pick, and both play the same position. Half the time I can't tell who people are talking about when they just write Murray.
Best shooting guard prospects the Kings should look at
- Thread starter ElRey
- Start date
, someone like Lee, Shumpert, Bazemore, maybe Ariza, Tucker or Barnes.
I think you're thinking of someone else. Oden went to Ohio State (but to be fair he did have a monster game in a losing effort against Florida in the NCAA championship) and averaged 8 points and 6 rebounds. Then in Portland he missed a whole year after microfracture surgery came back the next season to average 9 & 7 8 in what was officially his rookie year and then was never really healthy again.
Oden was a freshman big man who didn't always dominate on the college level. Even without the injuries he was far from a sure thing.
Yeah, I was having two different conversations, one responding to you about Jamal Murray and with Baja about Dejounte Murray.
Oden was a freshman big man who didn't always dominate on the college level. Even without the injuries he was far from a sure thing.
Yeah, I was having two different conversations, one responding to you about Jamal Murray and with Baja about Dejounte Murray.
I agree with you on Bennett, Brown, and Olowokandi but Oden was a sure thing. Maybe not as much of a sure thing as a 4-year player like Tim Duncan, but as much of a sure thing as actually exists now in the one-and-done era of $15 million rookie deals. There were some hints of injury issues but nobody thought he was going to require two catastrophic knee surgeries without making it through a single season, turn into an overweight alcoholic, and completely squander his talent. Kevin Durant was one of the most impressive freshmen in recent memory -- averaging 26 points per game for Texas that year -- and Oden was still the consensus #1 pick. That tells you how highly the draft experts thought of his potential.
No, I was thinking of Oden, although I did mean to say Ohio State and got mixed up.
Oden was on the cover of Slam when he was a kid. He was being hyped since he was about 14 years old. He also averaged 15/10 and 3 blocks in 29 mins per game as a freshman at Ohio (not 8 and 6).
His numbers in the NBA were modest but only because he played limited minutes. Per 36 he was putting up very impressive numbers for a kid. If it weren't for injuries, Oden would have been a perennial all-star.
Oden was on the cover of Slam when he was a kid. He was being hyped since he was about 14 years old. He also averaged 15/10 and 3 blocks in 29 mins per game as a freshman at Ohio (not 8 and 6).
His numbers in the NBA were modest but only because he played limited minutes. Per 36 he was putting up very impressive numbers for a kid. If it weren't for injuries, Oden would have been a perennial all-star.
But potential is exactly my point. Of course, it's revisionist history to say Oden wasn't an amazing prospect but he wasn't a Duncan or a LeBron or a Shaq where he was "can't miss". Even if he hadn't been hurt, everyone knew he was going to need time to develop into a great player unlike the three I just mentioned who were studs the very first time they set foot on an NBA court.
So was Sebastian Telfair. Both guys were amazing prospects. And you're right on the numbers - I'm not sure what I was looking at.
Believe me, I thought Oden was going to be a great player too, but the reality is that no one thought he was going to set foot in the NBA and immediately be a force. He had massive potential but had a lot of developing to do. He was certainly a #1 pick but even back then I didn't think of him as a "can't miss" guy.
Believe me, I thought Oden was going to be a great player too, but the reality is that no one thought he was going to set foot in the NBA and immediately be a force. He had massive potential but had a lot of developing to do. He was certainly a #1 pick but even back then I didn't think of him as a "can't miss" guy.
Lets not forget about Benoit Benjamin or Joe Barry Carroll. The Warriors traded the third pick in the draft along with Robert Parish (who was in his third year) to the Celtics for the 1st pick in the draft, with which they took Carroll. Of course the Celtics had already drafted Larry Bird, and with the third pick in the draft they selected some bum named Kevin McHale. The rest is history.
I don't concur with this assessment of history. I think very many people expected Oden to have an immediate impact in the NBA. He was built like a full-grown man at 18. The 2007 draft was being called "the Greg Oden draft" starting in probably 2004. I would say that Oden was the single most-hyped draft prospect since LeBron, and I don't think anybody, not Davis, not Irving, not Wall, not Towns, not Griffin, not Rose - nobody has come close to the hype that Oden had.
Regardless of how it turned out, he was widely hyped and widely expected to make an immediate impact.
Regardless of how it turned out, he was widely hyped and widely expected to make an immediate impact.
We remember differently. I seem to recall that EVERYONE was talking about Greg Oden, how great he'd be, etc. Having said that, however, my point was that we're the Kings. Had we gotten the #1 pick the year LBJ was selected, he probably would have tripped getting off the plane flying into Sacramento and sustained some kind of career-ending injury.
Jaylen Brown and Sabonis are excellent prospects at #8. There a lot of other names in this thread not worthy of our consideration. Sabonis reminds me of a stronger David Lee before Lee's career fell off the cliff. Remember Lee was a near All-Star or one-time All-Star. Sabonis keeps the ball high on the catch has excellent footwork and aggressiveness and natural feel for the game. He projects as PF in my mind.
The most interesting thing about the pending lotto draw besides confirming where we pick (with #8 at 70% probability) is who gets #1. Because whoever gets #1 can dangle Ben Simmons plus 1-2 other assets for Boogie Cousins.
Vlade didn't even have an exit interview with Boogie after suspending for one game for tirade against a coach he fired. Think about that, Kings fans. Vlade was not even in the corner of his coach...he was just disgusted by the insubordination and chronic toxic environment created by Cousins.
I am not suggesting Cousins will definitively be traded but if a team swoops in with a Godfather offer....Cousins is gone and Vlade won't think twice about it. If the Celtics offered Olyneak, Marcus Smart and the #1 for Boogie and Ben McLemore. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat and draft Sabonis or Brown at #8.
The only remote possibility of making it work is securing a coach that locks and loads Boogie into a pattern of behavior with focus on defense and sharing. That culture is in Boston. It's not here. Thibs could create that culture but we're not getting him unless divine intervention intervenes.
Then there are castoffs like Vinnie Del Negro and David Blatt. Even that the Kings would consider these lightweights, if reports are true, show how clueless the Kings are to entertain with "mental midgets" without force of personality to command a room let alone an ego and personality as oversized as Cousins.
LeBron had no use for Blatt from Day One. That's all I need to know to cross him off the list. And he also tried to call a timeout in a playoff game when his team had none that almost cost them the game. The guy is just frankly not intelligent or inventive and we think he could be potential savior? Puh-lease. If this is true, if rumors are true, it is an inditement of how short-sighted this front office is, one that wanted to give a max deal to Wes Matthews.
Whether Cousins is worth keeping around for another year of futility or resurgence depends on who Vlade hires. I am skeptical at best. Even a guy like Kevin McHale while better than most is damaged goods. Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy are appealing to me. Outside these guys or Thibs, we may as well deal Boogie (since he will never sacrifice to become great without a coach who challenges him to be great and a culture that encourages greatness) and start fresh with two high draft picks (#1 and #8), Darren, Omri, Seth, Q and Willie.
Give max deal to Ryan Anderson. Overpay to get a legitimate shooter and open up driving lanes. Trade Rudy, Koufos and Marco. Let Rondo walk. May as well keep Ben since he has no trade value and something may click, unless we need him to pull off Boogie trade.
PG - Darren (easy 16 PPG scorer), Seth (easy 12 PPG scorer)
SG - Jaylen Brown (superstar potential!), Marcus Smart (defensive stopper, hustle man)
SF - Ben Simmons (superstar potential!), Omri (hustle man, three man)
PF - Ryan Anderson (our 20 PPG scorer), Quincy (hustle man)
C- Willie (DPOY potential!), Kelly Olyneak (stretch shooter, hustle man)
This is the type of direction Vlade should be inclined to go instead of hoping Boogie's lip service is anything more than lip service. Whatever we can get from Rudy, Koufos and Marco fills out the rotation at SG, PF and C.
The most interesting thing about the pending lotto draw besides confirming where we pick (with #8 at 70% probability) is who gets #1. Because whoever gets #1 can dangle Ben Simmons plus 1-2 other assets for Boogie Cousins.
Vlade didn't even have an exit interview with Boogie after suspending for one game for tirade against a coach he fired. Think about that, Kings fans. Vlade was not even in the corner of his coach...he was just disgusted by the insubordination and chronic toxic environment created by Cousins.
I am not suggesting Cousins will definitively be traded but if a team swoops in with a Godfather offer....Cousins is gone and Vlade won't think twice about it. If the Celtics offered Olyneak, Marcus Smart and the #1 for Boogie and Ben McLemore. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat and draft Sabonis or Brown at #8.
The only remote possibility of making it work is securing a coach that locks and loads Boogie into a pattern of behavior with focus on defense and sharing. That culture is in Boston. It's not here. Thibs could create that culture but we're not getting him unless divine intervention intervenes.
Then there are castoffs like Vinnie Del Negro and David Blatt. Even that the Kings would consider these lightweights, if reports are true, show how clueless the Kings are to entertain with "mental midgets" without force of personality to command a room let alone an ego and personality as oversized as Cousins.
LeBron had no use for Blatt from Day One. That's all I need to know to cross him off the list. And he also tried to call a timeout in a playoff game when his team had none that almost cost them the game. The guy is just frankly not intelligent or inventive and we think he could be potential savior? Puh-lease. If this is true, if rumors are true, it is an inditement of how short-sighted this front office is, one that wanted to give a max deal to Wes Matthews.
Whether Cousins is worth keeping around for another year of futility or resurgence depends on who Vlade hires. I am skeptical at best. Even a guy like Kevin McHale while better than most is damaged goods. Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy are appealing to me. Outside these guys or Thibs, we may as well deal Boogie (since he will never sacrifice to become great without a coach who challenges him to be great and a culture that encourages greatness) and start fresh with two high draft picks (#1 and #8), Darren, Omri, Seth, Q and Willie.
Give max deal to Ryan Anderson. Overpay to get a legitimate shooter and open up driving lanes. Trade Rudy, Koufos and Marco. Let Rondo walk. May as well keep Ben since he has no trade value and something may click, unless we need him to pull off Boogie trade.
PG - Darren (easy 16 PPG scorer), Seth (easy 12 PPG scorer)
SG - Jaylen Brown (superstar potential!), Marcus Smart (defensive stopper, hustle man)
SF - Ben Simmons (superstar potential!), Omri (hustle man, three man)
PF - Ryan Anderson (our 20 PPG scorer), Quincy (hustle man)
C- Willie (DPOY potential!), Kelly Olyneak (stretch shooter, hustle man)
This is the type of direction Vlade should be inclined to go instead of hoping Boogie's lip service is anything more than lip service. Whatever we can get from Rudy, Koufos and Marco fills out the rotation at SG, PF and C.
Last edited:
So you actually believe that if we were going to trade Cousins, we would have to sweeten the pot with McLemore in order to get the other team to take him? That's how it sounds, and that's ridiculous! Has your hatred of Cousins reached the level where you've lost all sense of reason? I hope not! Plus, what is the fascination with Marcus Smart? I don't like Smart for a variety of reasons. You don't like Cousins attitude, but you want Smart, who has a worse attitude than Cousins. Cousins never left the floor and punched a fan, but Smart did. Smart had several run in's with his coach in college. Plus, the dude can't shoot the rock. Sorry, I want no part of Smart. There are several PG's in the league that are defensive stoppers that can't shoot. And they have better attitudes.
I have mixed emotions about Cousins. I've always defended him, but I'm at the point where some of his nonsense has to stop. But that doesn't mean I want to get rid of him. I blame the coach for some of his stuff. How many times when Cousins was at Kentucky, did you see him argue with a ref while the game was going on? Zero! You know why? Because he knew that if he did, he would be on the bench so fast his head would swim. Calapari laid down the rules, and you played by those rules, and that mean't everyone, or you didn't play. Period!!!! Guess what, Cousins didn't have a problem with it. He respected Calapari. As long as you communicate with him, and don't say one thing, and then do another, your good as gold.
I have mixed emotions about Cousins. I've always defended him, but I'm at the point where some of his nonsense has to stop. But that doesn't mean I want to get rid of him. I blame the coach for some of his stuff. How many times when Cousins was at Kentucky, did you see him argue with a ref while the game was going on? Zero! You know why? Because he knew that if he did, he would be on the bench so fast his head would swim. Calapari laid down the rules, and you played by those rules, and that mean't everyone, or you didn't play. Period!!!! Guess what, Cousins didn't have a problem with it. He respected Calapari. As long as you communicate with him, and don't say one thing, and then do another, your good as gold.
I don't think you discard an entire thread because one person strayed off course. Sort of disrespectful to those that have something to say on the subject of SG's. That said, I thought I would try and distinguish between Jamal Murray and Dejounte Murray. Both are SG's, and both are 6'5", but that's about where the comparison ends. Jamal is a solid 200 plus pounds, while Dejounte is a paltry, under nourished 162 pounds. Jamal is an excellent three point shooter, while Dejounte shot a sub par 28.8% from the three. That's not to say that Dejounte isn't without some skills.
He's been compared at times to Jamal Crawford, and I suspect it's because like Crawford, he has a wicked crossover dribble. While his overall three point average isn't that good, he is a streaky shooter who can get hot and put up some big numbers in a hurry. He almost single handedly brought Washington back from a 22 pt deficient against USC scoring 29 points. Despite his frail appearance, he's a good defender who averaged 1.8 steals a game. He's also a very good passer averaging 4.5 assists a game. Very good for a SG. I don't see him getting drafted until the 2nd round, but who knows. Someone desperate might reach for him. He does have long range potential. He's a good athlete with handles and a good feel for the game. He's a little video of him.
He's been compared at times to Jamal Crawford, and I suspect it's because like Crawford, he has a wicked crossover dribble. While his overall three point average isn't that good, he is a streaky shooter who can get hot and put up some big numbers in a hurry. He almost single handedly brought Washington back from a 22 pt deficient against USC scoring 29 points. Despite his frail appearance, he's a good defender who averaged 1.8 steals a game. He's also a very good passer averaging 4.5 assists a game. Very good for a SG. I don't see him getting drafted until the 2nd round, but who knows. Someone desperate might reach for him. He does have long range potential. He's a good athlete with handles and a good feel for the game. He's a little video of him.
You know, once in a while it actually might be nice if you posted something without the freaking snark. We can have intelligent discussions around here without it always resorting to insults. What is going to happen? Gee, I wonder.
An escalation of insults, of snark, of meaningless crap that detracts from the topic at hand perhaps?
...sigh...
An escalation of insults, of snark, of meaningless crap that detracts from the topic at hand perhaps?
...sigh...