Anthony Davis watch
- Thread starter jcwkings
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Top ten PER seasons of all time.
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.82 1962-63 SFW
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.74 1961-62 PHW
3. Michael Jordan* 31.71 1987-88 CHI
4. LeBron James 31.67 2008-09 CLE
5. Michael Jordan* 31.63 1990-91 CHI
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.63 1963-64 SFW
7. LeBron James 31.59 2012-13 MIA
8. Michael Jordan* 31.18 1989-90 CHI
9. Michael Jordan* 31.14 1988-89 CHI
10. LeBron James 31.11 2009-10 CLE
Anthony Davis now is at 36.1.
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.82 1962-63 SFW
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.74 1961-62 PHW
3. Michael Jordan* 31.71 1987-88 CHI
4. LeBron James 31.67 2008-09 CLE
5. Michael Jordan* 31.63 1990-91 CHI
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.63 1963-64 SFW
7. LeBron James 31.59 2012-13 MIA
8. Michael Jordan* 31.18 1989-90 CHI
9. Michael Jordan* 31.14 1988-89 CHI
10. LeBron James 31.11 2009-10 CLE
Anthony Davis now is at 36.1.
Anthony Davis has been fantastic this season. I'd say he's the frontrunner to be the league MVP at this point, as much because of his own stellar play as injuries to Durant, Westbrook, Rose and the subpar play of LeBron. Davis is 2nd in PPG, 7th in RPG, 3rd in steals and 1st in blocks. Monster numbers.
ESPN had him ranked as the third best player in the league. And they had Cuz at 19. Other than Davis (who I would give the edge to right now for sure) who is playing better than Boogie? He's first in rebounds per minute and second in total rebounds to Vucevic despite playing 135 minutes less so far. He's seventh in the league in scoring (1.5 ppg less than Davis who is #2) but per 36 he trails only Kobe. Davis' PER is off the charts good right now (at 34.2) but DeMarcus is third (27.7) in the league behind Davis and Brandon Wright who is playing just under 19 minutes per game.
Unfortunately DMC is first in the league in fouls which is part of why his minutes are lower per game than any of the other top players in the NBA. Still I think he's playing like the 2nd best player in the NBA right now and the Kings +/- when he's in the game vs when he's out backs that up completely. For my money Boogie vs the Brow is the premier matchup in the NBA right now (with maybe Curry vs Paul as the next best) and I'm looking forward to Tuesday.
Oh, and here's another interesting stat from this early season. Kobe is leading all players in shots taken. No surprise there. But what is surprising is that he's taken 312 shots in 13 games. Second on the list is Carmelo with 265 shots in 14 games. That's crazy. Kobe and Boogie have both played in 13 games and Bryant has taken over 10o shots than Cousins. Wow.
ESPN had him ranked as the third best player in the league. And they had Cuz at 19. Other than Davis (who I would give the edge to right now for sure) who is playing better than Boogie? He's first in rebounds per minute and second in total rebounds to Vucevic despite playing 135 minutes less so far. He's seventh in the league in scoring (1.5 ppg less than Davis who is #2) but per 36 he trails only Kobe. Davis' PER is off the charts good right now (at 34.2) but DeMarcus is third (27.7) in the league behind Davis and Brandon Wright who is playing just under 19 minutes per game.
Unfortunately DMC is first in the league in fouls which is part of why his minutes are lower per game than any of the other top players in the NBA. Still I think he's playing like the 2nd best player in the NBA right now and the Kings +/- when he's in the game vs when he's out backs that up completely. For my money Boogie vs the Brow is the premier matchup in the NBA right now (with maybe Curry vs Paul as the next best) and I'm looking forward to Tuesday.
Oh, and here's another interesting stat from this early season. Kobe is leading all players in shots taken. No surprise there. But what is surprising is that he's taken 312 shots in 13 games. Second on the list is Carmelo with 265 shots in 14 games. That's crazy. Kobe and Boogie have both played in 13 games and Bryant has taken over 10o shots than Cousins. Wow.
anthony davis is certainly an impressive talent, and the stats he's putting up are undeniably gaudy. that said, for all the talk of davis' impact on the defensive end, he's still allowing his opponents to shoot nearly 52% at the rim so far this season. demarcus cousins, on the other hand, is only allowing his opponents to shoot 43% at the rim. that's not quite roy hibbert-level rim protection, but it's definitely andrew bogut or serge ibaka territory. hell, DMC is actually besting marc gasol so far this season when it comes to rim protection. when he's on the court, demarcus cousins--the guy everybody claimed could never be a great defender--is a legitimate defensive anchor down low. he's forcing misses, and he's rebounding those misses at a league-high rate. that's why the kings are 8-5, on top of the 23/12 he's averaging... in only 31 mpg...
davis is a great shotblocking presence, but if he's not swatting the ball away, his opponents stand a great chance to score. cousins may not block a lotta shots, but he's also not giving up many easy buckets inside. davis is certainly the front runner for mvp, which is largely awarded to gaudy stat stuffers. if he can keep his fouls down, cousins is a gaudy stat stuffer, too, but he's also becoming one of the best defensive bigs in the nba, and unfortunately the statistics that support such a claim don't win many mvp votes. i think cousins is the better post-up option between the two when you need a bucket, and i think he's the better all-around defender, so while davis will likely finish with more impressive individual statistics, i expect the kings to finish the season with a better record (barring major injuries, of course)...
davis is a great shotblocking presence, but if he's not swatting the ball away, his opponents stand a great chance to score. cousins may not block a lotta shots, but he's also not giving up many easy buckets inside. davis is certainly the front runner for mvp, which is largely awarded to gaudy stat stuffers. if he can keep his fouls down, cousins is a gaudy stat stuffer, too, but he's also becoming one of the best defensive bigs in the nba, and unfortunately the statistics that support such a claim don't win many mvp votes. i think cousins is the better post-up option between the two when you need a bucket, and i think he's the better all-around defender, so while davis will likely finish with more impressive individual statistics, i expect the kings to finish the season with a better record (barring major injuries, of course)...
Legitimately, he is on the worst Lakers team I can remember (probably the worst of all time.) The drop-off in talent and BBIQ from Kobe to the next best player (Lin? Boozer?) is precipitous. I don't begrudge him all those shots at all.
That said, it does feel a little bit like stat-chasing. I think he wants to be the oldest scoring title winner in league history and he'll throw however many bricks he needs to in order to get there because this season is about a draft pick for the Lakers anyway.
That said, it does feel a little bit like stat-chasing. I think he wants to be the oldest scoring title winner in league history and he'll throw however many bricks he needs to in order to get there because this season is about a draft pick for the Lakers anyway.
The espn ranking was prior to this season? If they did it again, cousins would shoot up dramatically. I don't think there's any doubt about that. He's getting recognized. He comes up in early mvp talk. there's a bit of fan jealousy toward AD, which I get, but people also need to understand he, at the moment, has the best PER ever. Will he keep it up? Pretty unlikely. But while he does, of course it'll get attention. It's now up to 35.8 after last night. That's going to earn him player of the month. And while his gaudy defensive stats may not hold up under closer scrutiny, you're also discounting that his steals sometimes lead to his own dunks on the other end, and that he has an otherworldly ability to blocks shots and retain possession.
This was from 2 games ago. Nothing since then has changed significantly after a career night. I think his per was 36.1 after ten, 35.8 now. His scoring is up a bit. 43 will do that.
http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/2...yer-of-the-basketball-reference-play-index-2/
Kobe is just shameless.
This was from 2 games ago. Nothing since then has changed significantly after a career night. I think his per was 36.1 after ten, 35.8 now. His scoring is up a bit. 43 will do that.
http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/2...yer-of-the-basketball-reference-play-index-2/
Kobe is just shameless.
My post from page one of this thread:
Anthony Davis can't handle big, strong post scorers in the paint. He might eventually, as he's only 21 but looking at his frame it may always be his Achilles heel. That said, Cousins can't step out and guard Nowitzki, Bosh etc. Different defenders. It's worth repeating - Davis is first in blocks and 3rd in steals. That's pretty amazing really.
They are different players offensively too. Davis is a transition, slash to the hoop, hit open jumpers and finesse moves (which he is getting increasingly efficient with) in the paint type player. Cousins is a beast down low with amazing body control, footwork and skill for a man of his size. That he can hit open jumpers is just the icing on the cake. There's a reason Cuz has such a high plus minus. He draws SO much defensive attention that it makes the game easier for his teammates. Davis does that too but in different ways. Being a safety valve when they drive to the hoop, grabbing boards, blocking shots. It's understandable that people want to compare the two and often tear one down in the name of praising the other, but to me I just love watching them both. I'll root for Cousins when they play head to head but otherwise I like the Pelicans and what they're building in New Orleans.
Anthony Davis can't handle big, strong post scorers in the paint. He might eventually, as he's only 21 but looking at his frame it may always be his Achilles heel. That said, Cousins can't step out and guard Nowitzki, Bosh etc. Different defenders. It's worth repeating - Davis is first in blocks and 3rd in steals. That's pretty amazing really.
They are different players offensively too. Davis is a transition, slash to the hoop, hit open jumpers and finesse moves (which he is getting increasingly efficient with) in the paint type player. Cousins is a beast down low with amazing body control, footwork and skill for a man of his size. That he can hit open jumpers is just the icing on the cake. There's a reason Cuz has such a high plus minus. He draws SO much defensive attention that it makes the game easier for his teammates. Davis does that too but in different ways. Being a safety valve when they drive to the hoop, grabbing boards, blocking shots. It's understandable that people want to compare the two and often tear one down in the name of praising the other, but to me I just love watching them both. I'll root for Cousins when they play head to head but otherwise I like the Pelicans and what they're building in New Orleans.
All good points. My personal feeling is that Cousins will always be the better one on one player, and Davis will be the better guy to have on your team if you are a guard. The Clippers-style rolls to the rim with backdoor lobs are so effortless for him to finish and so difficult to stop for opposing teams that it opens up driving lanes for Jrue and Reke to finish inside themselves.
Cousins is a dominant paint presence and draws more doubles. Most of the open shots are coming at the three point line, though, and the Kings' poor shooting out of the gate is hurting us there.
The Pels are short a 3 and D SF and have one too many Eric Gordons, and they would be a legitimate playoff team. The Kings' starting five, by contrast, is pretty well-rounded with JT seemingly adapting well to a diminished role as post-defender guy and with some bench improvement, they can make a run this year and for the next few years. I also think Monty Williams is the sort of coach who is bad, but not so obviously bad that you fire him mid-season. You just don't give him a new contract.
Cousins is a dominant paint presence and draws more doubles. Most of the open shots are coming at the three point line, though, and the Kings' poor shooting out of the gate is hurting us there.
The Pels are short a 3 and D SF and have one too many Eric Gordons, and they would be a legitimate playoff team. The Kings' starting five, by contrast, is pretty well-rounded with JT seemingly adapting well to a diminished role as post-defender guy and with some bench improvement, they can make a run this year and for the next few years. I also think Monty Williams is the sort of coach who is bad, but not so obviously bad that you fire him mid-season. You just don't give him a new contract.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/11/23/7267469/anthony-davis-pelicans-national-tv-sunday-shootaround
I'm deadly serious when I say I've never seen anything like AD. We've seen Boogie before. His name was Shaq. AD? He'll be the guy everyone looks to find another one of, and honestly, I don't know if there will ever be one.
This is special stuff folks. Must see TV. Really, look at the vine. Look at it!
https://vine.co/v/O5LAdttWB0h
PS- Can we change the name of the thread to just Anthony Davis Watch or something?
I'm deadly serious when I say I've never seen anything like AD. We've seen Boogie before. His name was Shaq. AD? He'll be the guy everyone looks to find another one of, and honestly, I don't know if there will ever be one.
This is special stuff folks. Must see TV. Really, look at the vine. Look at it!
https://vine.co/v/O5LAdttWB0h
PS- Can we change the name of the thread to just Anthony Davis Watch or something?
anthony davis is certainly a unique and special player, but i don't think the bolded claim is fair to cousins at all. he's got a power game in the vein of shaq's, but he's got a lot more finesse than shaq ever had, as well. shaq didn't have boogie's face-up game, nor did he have boogie's jump shooting range, nor did he have boogie's ball-handling ability, nor did he have boogie's proficiency from the foul line (a major plus considering just how often big cuz is getting to the line these days). boogie's also got a tremendous nose for the assist. he tries to throw passes that are beyond his skill level from time to time, but he can weave passes through the teeth of the defense that shaq would never have attempted, and he can quarterback a hell of an outlet pass on the break. shaq was a weapon of mass destruction down low. he maximized the use of his size on both sides of the ball, but he was not as versatile as cousins is proving to be (note: shaq didn't need to be, and he wasn't interested in working to become a more versatile player, either). cousins, on the other hand, is some twisted amalgamation of shaquille o'neal, derrick coleman, and chris webber...
Am I the only one that feels like the Pelicans aren't that good? When we played them, I came away very unimpressed by their squad despite our L. I think the way to beat that team is if we take away shots from their "role" players, (Anderson, Holiday, and Evans) and let Davis dominate, OR box out Davis and deny him easy dunks while letting their "role" players get their shots. I'm confident we can win if we hold Davis under 25pts.
That Pelicans team was trumpeted by the Nuggets. The Nuggets are a team with a lot of big bodies. They held him to 7-17 18pts. They also held Ryan Anderson to 2-11 shooting 10pts. It was a complete blowout. 117-97
That Pelicans team was trumpeted by the Nuggets. The Nuggets are a team with a lot of big bodies. They held him to 7-17 18pts. They also held Ryan Anderson to 2-11 shooting 10pts. It was a complete blowout. 117-97
Well, that's not entirely true either. Demarcus is much more skilled than Shaq ever was (just check the ft percentage) but isn't quite the explosive athlete Shaq was coming out of university (For some reason, a lot of people have the image of fat Shaq in their head as opposed to freak of nature Shaq displaying the athleticism of Blake Griffin along with the strength of a bulldozer.) Boogie plays smarter than Shaq, who largely coasted on the fact he was built completely different from anyone else in the NBA, ever did. The best description of Demarcus is the strange fever-dream child of a Vlade-Shaq marriage with a dash of C-Webb thrown in.
It's like God was watching the 2002 WCF and decided to just combine all of the bigs into one superbig.
It's like God was watching the 2002 WCF and decided to just combine all of the bigs into one superbig.
I see AD as a Griffin type of player. They both have high energy and great motors. Griffin has added a jumper to his recent game, but AD has it more polished. They both thrive on great guard plays with PnR or easy putbacks and alley oops. They both don't have a real post up game, nor would they be able to go 1v1 and get a sure basket. I think Griffin has the better post game overall. Like CP3, Holiday, Evans, and Gordon know WHERE to give Davis the ball for easy pts. They understand WHEN they should give him the ball for an easy dunk.
The King's problem is just getting Cousins the ball..flat out. Collison, Gay, and Ben's inability to feed the ball to Cuz is a little sad. Guys like Holiday feed the ball to AD where they know he can make the sure basket. Our guys struggle to even get Cuz the ball anywhere in the paint.
I think AD benefits tremendously from great play making IQ from his guards. I'm not taking anything away from him, but if he didn't have guards who were able to feed him the ball down low, he probably wouldn't be considered as great as he is now. It is why, I say he's overrated..
The King's problem is just getting Cousins the ball..flat out. Collison, Gay, and Ben's inability to feed the ball to Cuz is a little sad. Guys like Holiday feed the ball to AD where they know he can make the sure basket. Our guys struggle to even get Cuz the ball anywhere in the paint.
I think AD benefits tremendously from great play making IQ from his guards. I'm not taking anything away from him, but if he didn't have guards who were able to feed him the ball down low, he probably wouldn't be considered as great as he is now. It is why, I say he's overrated..
Saying Cousins is the second coming of Shaq is the same as saying Davis is the second coming of Garnett or Bill Russell. Both comparisons have a degree of validity but neither is really all that accurate.
I think people forget what Shaq was when he came into the league. He was four inches TALLER than DeMarcus and weighed 10 lbs more, with a significantly lower body fat and a 36" vertical. O'Neal was a physical marvel the likes of which the NBA had never seen. His size, strength and athleticism were off the charts. He had a solid post game, drop step, half hook etc and his physical ability made it highly effective. Shaq was significantly bigger, stronger AND more athletic than Cousins. Also more of a true defensive anchor in terms of both being able to guard anyone not named Olojawon in the post one-on-one AND being a rim protector/shotblocker.
Cousins on the other hand is more skilled than Shaq ever was. O'Neal eventually became a very good passer out of the post and could handle the ball remarkably well for his size but Cousins came into the league better at both than Shaq ever was. He has a great jump shot and his footwork in the post or attacking the basket is fantastic. He's done things I've never seen a man of his size do.
I'm not saying Anthony Davis isn't special - he is. But the league has never seen a player quite like Boogie either.
I think people forget what Shaq was when he came into the league. He was four inches TALLER than DeMarcus and weighed 10 lbs more, with a significantly lower body fat and a 36" vertical. O'Neal was a physical marvel the likes of which the NBA had never seen. His size, strength and athleticism were off the charts. He had a solid post game, drop step, half hook etc and his physical ability made it highly effective. Shaq was significantly bigger, stronger AND more athletic than Cousins. Also more of a true defensive anchor in terms of both being able to guard anyone not named Olojawon in the post one-on-one AND being a rim protector/shotblocker.
Cousins on the other hand is more skilled than Shaq ever was. O'Neal eventually became a very good passer out of the post and could handle the ball remarkably well for his size but Cousins came into the league better at both than Shaq ever was. He has a great jump shot and his footwork in the post or attacking the basket is fantastic. He's done things I've never seen a man of his size do.
I'm not saying Anthony Davis isn't special - he is. But the league has never seen a player quite like Boogie either.
I do think the Kings are better than the Pelicans as well. And that's because their guard defense isn't as good as ours. The excuses to dismiss AD's easy dominance is the guard play, but I think they actually are holding that team back. The problem with the team is guard defense, and they probably got better by Gordon getting hurt. I also think AD needs to be more aggressive defensively and offensively. He needs to foul MORE. What a nice problem to have.
I just can't buy the guards get him the ball thing. I'd argue AD makes the guards look a lot better than they are. Coincidence Tyreke suddenly has career best numbers? I think credit is going in the wrong direction. I mean, Boogie had the same guy passing to him. The exact same guy. He never did this. I'm just a tad confused when Tyreke, Holliday and Gordon became great guards. Holliday was an all star in Philly, sure. But there are dozens of guards in this league with the ability to get a guy like AD the ball.
OK, my bad on the shaq comparison (should have known better to dare denigrate Boogie by comparing him to such alow level talent like Shaquille O'Neal). I should have clarified. But it's been done so I won't reiterate. I meant specifically the power game, which makes Boogie unique to the modern NBA. But Shaq was an elite athlete in an even larger body. Boogie is an elite athlete as well, just not in the jumping out of the building sort of way. More in a Larry Bird sorta of way.
This is the problem with comparisons. No two players are the same.
The ultimate point, I think, is that both Boogie and AD are top 20 all time type talents. And they are still very young and already dominant statistically. The thing that ends up separating the Vince Carters from the Kobe and Jordans, is the playoffs. It's exciting to see such great young talents in the league at the same time.
I just can't buy the guards get him the ball thing. I'd argue AD makes the guards look a lot better than they are. Coincidence Tyreke suddenly has career best numbers? I think credit is going in the wrong direction. I mean, Boogie had the same guy passing to him. The exact same guy. He never did this. I'm just a tad confused when Tyreke, Holliday and Gordon became great guards. Holliday was an all star in Philly, sure. But there are dozens of guards in this league with the ability to get a guy like AD the ball.
OK, my bad on the shaq comparison (should have known better to dare denigrate Boogie by comparing him to such alow level talent like Shaquille O'Neal). I should have clarified. But it's been done so I won't reiterate. I meant specifically the power game, which makes Boogie unique to the modern NBA. But Shaq was an elite athlete in an even larger body. Boogie is an elite athlete as well, just not in the jumping out of the building sort of way. More in a Larry Bird sorta of way.
This is the problem with comparisons. No two players are the same.
The ultimate point, I think, is that both Boogie and AD are top 20 all time type talents. And they are still very young and already dominant statistically. The thing that ends up separating the Vince Carters from the Kobe and Jordans, is the playoffs. It's exciting to see such great young talents in the league at the same time.
I see what you're saying, but AD benefits from playing with his guards. If you ask anyone who their #2 option is on that team, no one will have an answer for you. Some will say Holiday, some will say Evans, and others will say Anderson. They understand and know that AD is the best player on their team and they give him the ball. On our team, we have Rudy Gay who's clearly our #2 option on our team. He gets and wants his shots in the game too.
It's also about schemes. Remember on our squad, Tyreke played around garbage players. Cuz was only a rookie and a 2nd year boneheaded player. There were so many problems with that team, and Tyreke was the only one who wasn't a problem. There was no one better on that team aside from Tyreke. He was our franchise player and had to do a bit of everything. Tyreke on the Pelicans, has good players surrounding him. He no longer needs to force the issue like he's been doing in Sac. Anytime he gets stuck while driving down the paint, he dishes it off to AD. In Sac, he couldn't do that..and our coaches sucked in coaching PnRs.
Everyone on the Pelicans even Gordon, took a step back and said AD is our best and franchise player. We will give him the ball. Gordon isn't a great guard, but he knows when to give AD the ball. Gordon has career lows in almost every stat, and it's because he's taken a step back to help AD. Keep in mind, Gordon has always been considered a chucker.
AD is a good player, but he also benefits from his guards. I think he's overrated in the sense that when I think of a big man, I think low post, dominating over opponents, and scoring. When I see AD, I think of Dirk(with the Js), and Griffin(easy dunks and alley oops). I think he's a overrated because his lack of a post game. He can hit short Js and attack the rim, but he can't play with his back to the basket. His teammates set him up with easy opportunities.
It's also about schemes. Remember on our squad, Tyreke played around garbage players. Cuz was only a rookie and a 2nd year boneheaded player. There were so many problems with that team, and Tyreke was the only one who wasn't a problem. There was no one better on that team aside from Tyreke. He was our franchise player and had to do a bit of everything. Tyreke on the Pelicans, has good players surrounding him. He no longer needs to force the issue like he's been doing in Sac. Anytime he gets stuck while driving down the paint, he dishes it off to AD. In Sac, he couldn't do that..and our coaches sucked in coaching PnRs.
Everyone on the Pelicans even Gordon, took a step back and said AD is our best and franchise player. We will give him the ball. Gordon isn't a great guard, but he knows when to give AD the ball. Gordon has career lows in almost every stat, and it's because he's taken a step back to help AD. Keep in mind, Gordon has always been considered a chucker.
AD is a good player, but he also benefits from his guards. I think he's overrated in the sense that when I think of a big man, I think low post, dominating over opponents, and scoring. When I see AD, I think of Dirk(with the Js), and Griffin(easy dunks and alley oops). I think he's a overrated because his lack of a post game. He can hit short Js and attack the rim, but he can't play with his back to the basket. His teammates set him up with easy opportunities.
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The thing with AD that makes any comparison impossible, is that he really isn't a Center or PF. He's like a super freaky SF. One who leads the league in blocks. I guess that's why I forgive him for not having the back to the basket dominance traditional bigs generally have in their repertoire. Cause I don't think he's that.
Best center is more of a debate about Marc Gasol vs Boogie.
Best center is more of a debate about Marc Gasol vs Boogie.
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