Young PFs to watch (free agency or trade)

[206Fan]

Well, you've made a bigger issue of Robinson's height than I intended. I only brought up the height issue because someone stated that he was 6'10", and I'm tired of over inflated heights being thrown around. I don't dispute any of the info you posted, and I've made the exact same point many times in other posts. It's all about perception. In a strange way, I feel sorry for the players that actually are their posted height. In essence, it really comes down to talent doesn't it? And in my opinion, Robinson, who I hope, does end up having a good career, is lacking in that area.

I realize that the premise of this thread is "young", and along with that word comes the word "potential". So perhaps I shouldn't be posting in this thread, because I think the Kings are in need of experience. Could Robinson develop into an important role player? Maybe, but I just think there are better players out there to pursue. It's not really about height, it's about talent, and Robinson is still lacking in some important areas. I won't go over them because everyone knows what they are. He's really good at one thing, and if you watch him play a lot, he's even inconsistent in that area. I'll leave it at that.

I'm just curious, have you seen him play this year? I knocked on him A LOT for being undersized, but in the Portland games I've watched, he actually looks like a legit PF now. Not a SF. I think he wore a few extra socks and bulked up. He definitely has the size now, but he doesn't have the talent. He will be a project for any team.

Just looking at our PF project, Eric Moreland, he's undersized. Even if he is 6'10, he looks like a SF. How do you personally feel about Moreland?

 

[hrdboild]

Well, you've made a bigger issue of Robinson's height than I intended. I only brought up the height issue because someone stated that he was 6'10", and I'm tired of over inflated heights being thrown around. I don't dispute any of the info you posted, and I've made the exact same point many times in other posts. It's all about perception. In a strange way, I feel sorry for the players that actually are their posted height. In essence, it really comes down to talent doesn't it? And in my opinion, Robinson, who I hope, does end up having a good career, is lacking in that area.

I realize that the premise of this thread is "young", and along with that word comes the word "potential". So perhaps I shouldn't be posting in this thread, because I think the Kings are in need of experience. Could Robinson develop into an important role player? Maybe, but I just think there are better players out there to pursue. It's not really about height, it's about talent, and Robinson is still lacking in some important areas. I won't go over them because everyone knows what they are. He's really good at one thing, and if you watch him play a lot, he's even inconsistent in that area. I'll leave it at that.

Like I said -- I didn't mean to pick on you specifically , I just saw your comment as a good excuse to dispel the "undersized" narrative that has sometimes accompanied Robinson.

I'd definitely prefer Larry Sanders or Gorgui Dieng, but both of them require giving something up in trade if they're even available at all. Ed Davis would also be a nice off-season acquisition if his price doesn't go too high. Ditto for Kyle O'Quinn. With Robinson I'm looking at it two ways -- (1) I can see him being a very good bargain since he isn't getting much playing time in Portland -- I'm looking at a small contract here, certainly less than what we gave Landry, and I think he'll grow into a solid option off the bench at that price and (2) His lack of offensive skill will turn some teams off, but it shouldn't turn us off. We already have the biggest and baddest post player in the NBA not to mention three capable scorers in Gay, McLemore, and Collison. All we need at PF is defense, rebounding, and energy.

There are certainly other options than the ones I've mentioned. The sudden change in coaching philosophy has left me adrift as I've been directing all my personnel acquisition strategies, as usual, toward plugging defensive holes and it seems incredibly unlikely now that anyone in our front office shares that point of view. I suppose someone else could start a topic about ways to improve our offense at the backup PF, backup G, and/or starting PF positions if they like. I don't have the heart for it, even if the writing is on the wall about what PDA is actually looking for.

 

[206Fan]

Lavoy Allen? 25yearsold plays for Indiana.

He's averaged 21.9mpg 7.2pts 7.7rebs 1.1asts 0.8blks shooting .522%

He's a rebounding machine that plays extremely tough defense. He has a nice 15-20ft jumper. He finishes the rim with at 78%.

I think we should attempt to trade for him or sign him after this season. He would make this team A LOT better.

 

[bajaden]

I'm just curious, have you seen him play this year? I knocked on him A LOT for being undersized, but in the Portland games I've watched, he actually looks like a legit PF now. Not a SF. I think he wore a few extra socks and bulked up. He definitely has the size now, but he doesn't have the talent. He will be a project for any team.

Just looking at our PF project, Eric Moreland, he's undersized. Even if he is 6'10, he looks like a SF. How do you personally feel about Moreland?

To answer your first question, yes, I've seen him play several times. I'm a big Lillard fan, so if I have the time, and Portland is playing, I usually take a peak. I don't want it to appear that I hate Robinson. I just don't see him as making much of an impact on our team. He's not the type of PF I'm looking for, to put it a different way. I want someone that can defend the basket next to Cousins, or coming off the bench for defense when needed. So in that vein, I much prefer Moreland over Robinson, at least in skillset. Moreland was very good rebounder in college, and he continued that in summer league. He also blocked shots in college and in summer league. Robinson has never been a shotblocker. Although he shoots a little over 50% from the floor overall, almost all of his scoring comes at the basket. He's still a bad shooter away from the basket, and the fact that he's a terrible free throw shooter, doesn't bode well for him ever becoming a good jumpshooter. But never say never!

As for as Moreland being undersized like Robinson, not true. As pointed out by hrdboild, Robinson measured out, without shoes, at 6'7.75" at the combine, while Moreland measured out at 6'9". Moreland is 6'10.75" with shoes, while Robinson is 6'8.75"with shoes. So Moreland is legit size for a PF, if there is such a thing.. Obviously Robinson needs shoes with thicker soles. I'll give Robinson the edge in athleticism, however Moreland is a very good athlete. What Moreland lacks is experience, and a little more muscle. He had a decent jumpshot in college, but I didn't see much of it in summer league, and haven't really watched any Reno games as of yet.

 

[bajaden]

Like I said -- I didn't mean to pick on you specifically , I just saw your comment as a good excuse to dispel the "undersized" narrative that has sometimes accompanied Robinson.

I'd definitely prefer Larry Sanders or Gorgui Dieng, but both of them require giving something up in trade if they're even available at all. Ed Davis would also be a nice off-season acquisition if his price doesn't go too high. Ditto for Kyle O'Quinn. With Robinson I'm looking at it two ways -- (1) I can see him being a very good bargain since he isn't getting much playing time in Portland -- I'm looking at a small contract here, certainly less than what we gave Landry, and I think he'll grow into a solid option off the bench at that price and (2) His lack of offensive skill will turn some teams off, but it shouldn't turn us off. We already have the biggest and baddest post player in the NBA not to mention three capable scorers in Gay, McLemore, and Collison. All we need at PF is defense, rebounding, and energy.

There are certainly other options than the ones I've mentioned. The sudden change in coaching philosophy has left me adrift as I've been directing all my personnel acquisition strategies, as usual, toward plugging defensive holes and it seems incredibly unlikely now that anyone in our front office shares that point of view. I suppose someone else could start a topic about ways to improve our offense at the backup PF, backup G, and/or starting PF positions if they like. I don't have the heart for it, even if the writing is on the wall about what PDA is actually looking for.

I think we pretty much agree. Damm shame we won't have a draft pick this year. This draft is loaded with shotblockers, including my favorite Cauley-Stein. But that's water under the bridge unless we somehow acquire a pick. Look, if we can acquire Robinson in the off season at a cheap price, I don't have a problem with that. But I don't see him as a player we can put next to Cousins, for multiple reasons. I can however see him as a guy to come off the bench. Personally, I'm looking for a PF that we can play next to Cousins that can defend the basket, and defend the pick and roll on the perimeter. All he needs offensively is a little 15 to 17 foot jumpshot that he's consistent enough with, that you can't leave him.

It's possible that the Kings have Moreland in mind for that job when they think he's ready. And that's all well and good, but I certainly wouldn't pass up the opportunity to acquire someone with experience while were waiting. I've had my eye on Ed Davis for some time, but he still hasn't lived up to expectations. Don't know why, and there could be legit reasons. I wouldn't mind giving him a try. Where the hell is Udoh when you need him?

 

[kingsboi]

Tristan Thompson would be a nice get...he can snatch rebounds and plays good defense, offense needs work but I'll take his intangibles.

 

[206Fan]

I think we pretty much agree. Damm shame we won't have a draft pick this year. This draft is loaded with shotblockers, including my favorite Cauley-Stein. But that's water under the bridge unless we somehow acquire a pick. Look, if we can acquire Robinson in the off season at a cheap price, I don't have a problem with that. But I don't see him as a player we can put next to Cousins, for multiple reasons. I can however see him as a guy to come off the bench. Personally, I'm looking for a PF that we can play next to Cousins that can defend the basket, and defend the pick and roll on the perimeter. All he needs offensively is a little 15 to 17 foot jumpshot that he's consistent enough with, that you can't leave him.

It's possible that the Kings have Moreland in mind for that job when they think he's ready. And that's all well and good, but I certainly wouldn't pass up the opportunity to acquire someone with experience while were waiting. I've had my eye on Ed Davis for some time, but he still hasn't lived up to expectations. Don't know why, and there could be legit reasons. I wouldn't mind giving him a try. Where the hell is Udoh when you need him?

Don't be surprised to see Cauley-Stein sneak up to the 3rd pick!

In regards to your comment about Moreland, I think he lacks the size, not much the height. He just looks slender and tall. In SL, I was really impressed with him. However, during preseason, he was noticeably small out there.. I think that was the same for T-Rob. T-Rob is an athletic PF, but his frame was tiny the previous years. This year, he looks like an actual PF(size wise).

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Don't be surprised to see Cauley-Stein sneak up to the 3rd pick!

I kind of think that Cauley-Stein declining to declare for the draft last year was a real bad bit of luck for us. He would have looked really nice at the #8 pick.

 

[Gilles]

No way WCS sneaks into top-3, given his offensive limitations, but being taken at #6 or #7 is pretty reasonable, given his impact.

 

[KingsFanGER]

To answer your first question, yes, I've seen him play several times. I'm a big Lillard fan, so if I have the time, and Portland is playing, I usually take a peak. I don't want it to appear that I hate Robinson. I just don't see him as making much of an impact on our team. He's not the type of PF I'm looking for, to put it a different way. I want someone that can defend the basket next to Cousins, or coming off the bench for defense when needed. So in that vein, I much prefer Moreland over Robinson, at least in skillset. Moreland was very good rebounder in college, and he continued that in summer league. He also blocked shots in college and in summer league. Robinson has never been a shotblocker. Although he shoots a little over 50% from the floor overall, almost all of his scoring comes at the basket. He's still a bad shooter away from the basket, and the fact that he's a terrible free throw shooter, doesn't bode well for him ever becoming a good jumpshooter. But never say never!

As for as Moreland being undersized like Robinson, not true. As pointed out by hrdboild, Robinson measured out, without shoes, at 6'7.75" at the combine, while Moreland measured out at 6'9". Moreland is 6'10.75" with shoes, while Robinson is 6'8.75"with shoes. So Moreland is legit size for a PF, if there is such a thing.. Obviously Robinson needs shoes with thicker soles. I'll give Robinson the edge in athleticism, however Moreland is a very good athlete. What Moreland lacks is experience, and a little more muscle. He had a decent jumpshot in college, but I didn't see much of it in summer league, and haven't really watched any Reno games as of yet.

Ok and where do we find this PF that can defend the basket and brings defense off the bench when needed? Problem is, that there is no developed player right now I can think of, that is available for us, cause we have a couple of low value trade assets and are not a prime FA location and on top of that most likely will have no first round pick in the next draft. Isn't it telling, that we are discussing taking on Williams huge contract just to take a chance at Plumlee, who is more about potential than actual contribution right now?
Kings are in a tough situation. And usually you start to take risks and gamble on development of players in this situation, cause there will be no Sanders, Gibson, Ibaka, Anderson for us.
We can try to develop Moreland and I'm all in in this case. But do we really want Moreland as our one and only option to strengthen our PF-position?
Besides, in my humble opinion, you are overvalueing size for a contemporary PF. I agree that you need a big, that can body up the few remaining postup threats of the league, but the way i look at it, it's way more important to get someone, who is quick and mobile enough to guard the pick&roll, to close out on shooters, to stay in front of his man and who actually uses his body to protect the rim against penetration attempts. You don't need to be 6'10 to do that.

 

[bajaden]

Ok and where do we find this PF that can defend the basket and brings defense off the bench when needed? Problem is, that there is no developed player right now I can think of, that is available for us, cause we have a couple of low value trade assets and are not a prime FA location and on top of that most likely will have no first round pick in the next draft. Isn't it telling, that we are discussing taking on Williams huge contract just to take a chance at Plumlee, who is more about potential than actual contribution right now?
Kings are in a tough situation. And usually you start to take risks and gamble on development of players in this situation, cause there will be no Sanders, Gibson, Ibaka, Anderson for us.
We can try to develop Moreland and I'm all in in this case. But do we really want Moreland as our one and only option to strengthen our PF-position?
Besides, in my humble opinion, you are overvalueing size for a contemporary PF. I agree that you need a big, that can body up the few remaining postup threats of the league, but the way i look at it, it's way more important to get someone, who is quick and mobile enough to guard the pick&roll, to close out on shooters, to stay in front of his man and who actually uses his body to protect the rim against penetration attempts. You don't need to be 6'10 to do that.

First, I'm not over valuing or under valuing size. Because I point out the errors posted about the size of a player, doesn't mean I'm using size, in and of itself as a plus or minus for any particular player. What I care about is the skills the player has. Does his skill set fit what I'm looking for, and then how much am I willing to compromise in that area. Because I don't have the right player starring me in the face, doesn't mean I'm willing to accept a player that can't do the two things I'm looking for, along with some of the other things you mentioned. Most of the players we would covet, are homegrown by the teams their on. Might I point out, that Larry Sanders didn't show up in the league as Larry Sanders. It took him a year or two. Just for fun, coming out of college, and using results from the combine for the measurements, here is how they compare.

Larry Sanders: Virginia Commonwealth, 6'10.5" in shoes, 222 Lbs. In his final year of college. 14.4 ppg, 53.4% fgp, 9.1 rpg, 2.6 bpg

Eric Moreland: Oregon St. , 6'10.25" in shoes, 224 Lbs. In his final year of college. 8.9 ppg, 50.8% fgp, 10.3 rpg, 2.3 bpg

Very similar players in size, height, skill level, and results. One could argue that Moreland played in a tougher conference. Does that mean that Moreland will become the next Sanders? No, but it doesn't mean he won't either. Now I agree with you that it doesn't hurt to hedge your bet, and have more than one prospect. You and I will just have to disagree on the type of prospect. There is no right or wrong answer here, just a difference of preference

 

[KingMilz]

Derrick Williams + Ramon Sessions for Mozgov + Foye

Why we do it: We get a combo guard who last year played a lot of the point and can really space the floor and back up Ben as well as play with Ben (Foye and Ben on the perimeter while Cousins gets doubled.....). We also get a C who is not afriad of contact and will try block shots/run the floor and actually can roll to the rim

Why Denver does it: They save money and Williams can also be a try out/insurance for Gallo in case he keeps getting injured, they get Sessions who is making less than Foye over the next two seasons. Foye has also been hurt for most the year as well.