Ty Lawson

Here's the thing about Lawson though.

It's a one year deal.

If he's awful then the Kings likely still have to patch the position this season and Lawson doesn't return.

If he has a major rebound year then he's likely gone as he'll seek greener pastures.

If he has a mild rebound then the Kings will be stuck trying to figure out if they overpay To bring him back and simultaneously try to figure out whether to bring back Collison.

If both have solid to great seasons it would take a chunk of change to bring back two PGs who aren't great compliments to one another because their games and physical tools (and defenciencies) are pretty similar.

It could be a decent patch job for this season but next year Gay is likely opting out and both PGs will be FAs. The Kings aren't in a great position long term.
I feel like that could be said either way. Vlade would be getting a lot of flack if he signed Lawson to a longer deal. The only way I feel like we could have done better if it was like ~4 million dollar 2 year deal with the second year being a team option. All in all I like the move.
 
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I think its great. I try to believe in 2nd chances, perhaps more in his case,when it comes to certain drugs and alcohol.
Also he's young and has talent. My guess is he will be very receptive to the coaching whereas Rondo is a bit questionable in that respect.
Everybody deserves a second chance. Rondo got a second chance and he made the best of it last season. Lets hope that Lawson can put together a comeback season and help our team. We needed a PG, and there just aren't any all star point guards available on the free agent market right now. And the truth be known, if there were any they would take a backup roll on a another team rather than come to Sacramento. That's the reality of things.

When this team was the laughing stock of the league many years ago, the team brought in a center named Vlade Divac. He was no all star and he was a known smoker! They started winning some games and Sacramento started becoming a destination not a desecration. Then they traded for a disgruntled Chris Webber. That team became the best team in the Sacramento era. All it takes is winning a few games, having a few draft picks pan out, a brand new arena full of wild fans, and the Kings resurgence can happen.

Lets hope for no more "Dumpster Fire" moments this season. No more "Boogie Buffoon" moments. NOTHING that perpetuates the narrative that the Sacramento FO are inept bumbling fools. Win a few more games. Gain some credibility. Draft wisely again next year. THEN the free agents will start considering Sacramento again. That's when we turn this thing around. That's when we can be that playoff team with the crazed fans with the cowbells that everyone around the league loves and fears !
 
Indeed - Lawson is a low risk, high reward signing. But when your coach is constantly talking about establishing a defensive mindset and claims, that it's not about winning now, but about establishing a certain culture this signing is a head scratcher.
Lawson is a veteran - so it's a win now move. Lawson isn't a defensive minded player - so he doesn't fit what our FO guys claim to be the new team identiy.

And on top of that DMC said, that "this is the year we turn it around". Now obviously this expresses, that he still has hope for SAC, but it's also an ultimatum, because we all know, what will most likely happen, if we once again fail to turn it around.
It seems to be now or never for Cousins in SAC. And 206 Fan has some solid points about this somehow weird two way strategy our FO most likely chose.
It's not wrong to plan for a future without DMC. But somehow it feels like we opted to sign those shortterm contracts and chose not to trade Cousins, because we don't want to open the new arena with a losing product, but we also didn't want to fully commit to a "keep Cousins at all costs-strategy" .
Is this the right thing to do moving forward?
I truly believe that NBA players are some of the most athletic athletes in the world. If you are on an NBA roster, you stand a pretty fair chance of being athletic. Defense is a mindset. It takes athleticism and a mindset of perseverance to stick with the defensive gameplan. ANYONE can play team defense if they are motivated to do so. But the mindset must be established that team defense will be played or you will have a seat next to the coach.

With all that in mind, I thing a motivated Ty Lawson is a low risk/high reward, potential all star level PG that could lead this team to some victories. I'm not saying he is the long term answer. I'm saying that he is the answer for this season. If he buys into the team defense concept, and everyone else on the team buys into what coach Jaeger is preaching, it can work. It's a matter of effort and teamwork. They are all athletic enough to play defense. But are they motivated to do so???
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Here's the thing about Lawson though.

It's a one year deal.

If he's awful then the Kings likely still have to patch the position this season and Lawson doesn't return.

If he has a major rebound year then he's likely gone as he'll seek greener pastures.

If he has a mild rebound then the Kings will be stuck trying to figure out if they overpay To bring him back and simultaneously try to figure out whether to bring back Collison.

If both have solid to great seasons it would take a chunk of change to bring back two PGs who aren't great compliments to one another because their games and physical tools (and defenciencies) are pretty similar.

It could be a decent patch job for this season but next year Gay is likely opting out and both PGs will be FAs. The Kings aren't in a great position long term.
Oddly, I think Vlade might feel like he's in a pretty good position, for exactly the same reason. This 1yr contract line in the sand is beyond obvious for us. We absolutely are trying to keep maximum flexibility for next summer to either build the perfect pearl of a Joerger/Cousins team, or to move completely and rapidly into a post-Cousins era.
 
All of you guys saying that this goes against everyone we signed... have you forgotten about Matt Barnes? This dude has just as many problems on and off the court. We needed a PG. We got one. I would wager his contract has a bunch of "if you mess this up in any way you're done" statements in it that would save us from total embarrassment. It's not like he was in a position to argue.
Your right. First barnes, now Ty. It wouldn't be such a big deal if the team hadn't been selling everyone on a fresh start and "doing it right" this time. What a load of sh*#.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
Oddly, I think Vlade might feel like he's in a pretty good position, for exactly the same reason. This 1yr contract line in the sand is beyond obvious for us. We absolutely are trying to keep maximum flexibility for next summer to either build the perfect pearl of a Joerger/Cousins team, or to move completely and rapidly into a post-Cousins era.
I'd agree. I think the goal is to build around DMC but it sure looks like the team is hedging its bets.

Barring a masterful job by Joerger that recasts the Kings as a team on the rise (or ideally a 7th or 8th seed) I think this is Boogie's last season in a Kings jersey.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/ty-lawson-6283/

I finally found a report of the Contract

1 Year 1.315 Mil all guaranteed What a deal!!
Lawson gets $1.3M, but we are only paying $980K of that. The rest is being paid by the league, under a CBA clause that incentivizes picking up slightly more expensive many-year veterans on min deals rather than slightly less expensive fewer-year veterans. Note that the cap hit is only $980K as well.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
I think Patterson and Isaiah Cousins probably get cut.
Patterson has an unguaranteed contract, so barring a trade to open up a roster spot that seems likely.

Isaiah Cousins is not signed to my knowledge. We will probably invite him to training camp then assign him as an affiliate player to our D-League team.
 
Interesting news from Mitch Lawrence on SiriusXM Radio:
"The one thing that is interesting, I had heard in the last couple of weeks that the kings were telling people 'we're close to making a deal for a point guard' and a lot of people thought that was going to be Ricky Rubio who has been shopped by Minnesota."
He continues by bringing up Cousins and Rubios long exchange after the US beat Spain and finished by saying that this is now off the table because of the Lawson signing.
SiriusXM NBA Radio–Verified account ‏@SiriusXMNBA
AUDIO: @Mitch_Lawrence says the #Kings were close to trading for a PG (maybe Rubio) before eventually signing Lawson http://bit.ly/2bxrLd4
I wonder however if signing Lawson really means that we are not trading for Rubio? Couldnt it actually be that signing Lawson would allow us to offer Collison in return for Rubio like Brick mentioned months ago?
 
Don't really understand all the comments about the signings of Lawson and Barnes as going against the culture. When Vlade and coach Joerger are talking about setting up the culture and doing it the right way, I highly doubt they are talking about getting in a bunch of choir boys who are good upstanding citizens.

Their reference to the culture and doing it right are in terms of work ethic and playing like a team.....setting the foundation of team non-negotiables on the court. Fact is that a good number of athletes in the NBA have some sort of mark or question against their character.

Matt Barnes might have the off-field issues here and there but he has busted his tail for every team that he has played on and players that have played with him LOVE him as a team-mate. So as far as setting the culture on the court and in the locker room, he absolutely fits the description. Not many people will outwork him.

Same goes for Collison. Prior to the domestic violence charge, everyone here would have sworn that he is an upstanding citizen and even when it happened, there were so many comments along the line of "never would have picked it". One thing that no one can question of Collison in his two seasons in Sacramento is his professionalism on the court and in the locker room. He has worked his tail off, produced when ever he is on the court regardless of whether he was a starter or 6th man. From recent reports he has been in the gym working with the coaching staff and a few other players on his game. He has had a few reasons to mail it in and coast his way through the seasons with the Kings but he has always busted his tail and acted like a genuine pro from basketball perspective. I am no condoning what he has or hasn't done in his private life. I can only judge him what he has done on the court and as a team mate in the locker room.

Lawson might be the only player we have signed this summer that doesn't fit the description from a basketball perspective. He like many NBA players past and present and dare I say it future, has had issues off the court that have been well documented. He also has appeared to have quit on his team in Denver. He doesn't quite fit the length and defense angle either but the team might be able to carry one guy that isn't quite the ideal description of what we are looking but fits the needs.

I have no doubt that come training camp and game time, guys like Matt Barnes and Darren Collison will absolutely set the example of working hard, playing team ball and will help develop that grit and grind culture.

While it's not ideal that some of our players have off-field issues or baggage if you like, it's safe to say that would be the case for most, if not all the teams in the NBA. They don't have to be choir boys but they need to play and carry themselves the right way when on the court and in the locker room or at the team's facilities in general.

Even the greatest Kings teams of the Sacramento Kings era had players with issues and run ins with the law.....C-Webb, Clark, J-Will, Jimmy Jackson etc....the list goes on but they all played well and did their thing for the team.
 
I truly believe that NBA players are some of the most athletic athletes in the world. If you are on an NBA roster, you stand a pretty fair chance of being athletic. Defense is a mindset. It takes athleticism and a mindset of perseverance to stick with the defensive gameplan. ANYONE can play team defense if they are motivated to do so. But the mindset must be established that team defense will be played or you will have a seat next to the coach.

With all that in mind, I thing a motivated Ty Lawson is a low risk/high reward, potential all star level PG that could lead this team to some victories. I'm not saying he is the long term answer. I'm saying that he is the answer for this season. If he buys into the team defense concept, and everyone else on the team buys into what coach Jaeger is preaching, it can work. It's a matter of effort and teamwork. They are all athletic enough to play defense. But are they motivated to do so???
Oh no doubt about it - teamdefense helps a lot.
But at some point you need a defender able to stop someone in 1vs1 situations to win with defense in the NBA.
I mean look at Memphis, San Antonio, Boston or even Golden State. Those teams play very good team defense, but have great individual defenders on top of that.
I don't doubt, that Joerger can turn us into a semi decent defensive team. The problem is, that we are not a very good team on the offensive end, when Cousins doesn't dominate (keep in mind, that our pace will most likely slow down again and we will operate more in the halfcourt without a guy like Rondo creating easy looks). So it would be nice, if we were able to win with defense.
And I don't think that will happen with a roster, where 38 old Barnes and Temple must be considered our best perimeter defenders and Demarcus Cousins is basically the best scorer, defender and playmaker on the roster.
Once again we ask Boogie to do it all and set him up for another season of unwarranted criticism, when he fails to get us over the .50 mark.
 
Oddly, I think Vlade might feel like he's in a pretty good position, for exactly the same reason. This 1yr contract line in the sand is beyond obvious for us. We absolutely are trying to keep maximum flexibility for next summer to either build the perfect pearl of a Joerger/Cousins team, or to move completely and rapidly into a post-Cousins era.
Completely agree!
 
I'd agree. I think the goal is to build around DMC but it sure looks like the team is hedging its bets.

Barring a masterful job by Joerger that recasts the Kings as a team on the rise (or ideally a 7th or 8th seed) I think this is Boogie's last season in a Kings jersey.
I think that is definitely a glass half empty point of view.
 
Oh no doubt about it - teamdefense helps a lot.
But at some point you need a defender able to stop someone in 1vs1 situations to win with defense in the NBA.
I mean look at Memphis, San Antonio, Boston or even Golden State. Those teams play very good team defense, but have great individual defenders on top of that.
I don't doubt, that Joerger can turn us into a semi decent defensive team. The problem is, that we are not a very good team on the offensive end, when Cousins doesn't dominate (keep in mind, that our pace will most likely slow down again and we will operate more in the halfcourt without a guy like Rondo creating easy looks). So it would be nice, if we were able to win with defense.
And I don't think that will happen with a roster, where 38 old Barnes and Temple must be considered our best perimeter defenders and Demarcus Cousins is basically the best scorer, defender and playmaker on the roster.
Once again we ask Boogie to do it all and set him up for another season of unwarranted criticism, when he fails to get us over the .50 mark.
What a bleak picture you paint. Brings to mind the Eeyore character.

I look at things differently. Lets run down a list of recent positive developments.

1) The new owners are committed to keeping the Kings in Sacramento.
2) There is a shiny new arena in Downtown Sacramento!
3) Chris Granger has the business side of the Kings moving along very nicely.
4) Vlade and the Front Office has made some nice moves as he begins to mold the Kings in his vision.
5) Coach Joerger wants the team to work hard, defend and generally grind out the wins.
5) Elston Turner is back as the Kings Lead Assistant and the rest of the staff is also very solid.
6) DeMarcus Cousins is healthy and ready to rumble.
7) Koufos, WCS, Tolliver, Skal and Papa round out a nice Big Man cadre.
8) Rudy, Casspi and Barnes can all defend SF and stretch 4's.
9) The guard line is solid with Collison, Lawson, Afflalo, Temple, Ben and Malachi.
10) The players brought in all can defend and are long for the most part.
11) Three point shooting should improve since Tolliver, Temple and Afflalo all shoot the 3 well.

Are there things to fret about? Sure but others can do that:)

I think Coach Joerger is going to have the Kings ready to play.
 
What a bleak picture you paint. Brings to mind the Eeyore character.

I look at things differently. Lets run down a list of recent positive developments.

1) The new owners are committed to keeping the Kings in Sacramento.
2) There is a shiny new arena in Downtown Sacramento!
3) Chris Granger has the business side of the Kings moving along very nicely.
4) Vlade and the Front Office has made some nice moves as he begins to mold the Kings in his vision.
5) Coach Joerger wants the team to work hard, defend and generally grind out the wins.
5) Elston Turner is back as the Kings Lead Assistant and the rest of the staff is also very solid.
6) DeMarcus Cousins is healthy and ready to rumble.
7) Koufos, WCS, Tolliver, Skal and Papa round out a nice Big Man cadre.
8) Rudy, Casspi and Barnes can all defend SF and stretch 4's.
9) The guard line is solid with Collison, Lawson, Afflalo, Temple, Ben and Malachi.
10) The players brought in all can defend and are long for the most part.
11) Three point shooting should improve since Tolliver, Temple and Afflalo all shoot the 3 well.

Are there things to fret about? Sure but others can do that:)

I think Coach Joerger is going to have the Kings ready to play.
Oh well - eeyore is an adorable little fella and a great childhood memory. :D

1.-5.) Never criticized the business side of the Kings organisation. I'm looking forward to the new arena. It's debatable that Vlade made nice moves. Coach Joerger can only work with the roster he is given.

7.) Skal and Papa are rookies, KK can't play alongside DMC. WCS had a terrible SL and creates problems on the offensive end, when playing alongside DMC. Tolliver is an end of bench player for a team with playoff aspirations.

8.) Rudy is terrible on D. Barnes is old. Casspi is solid.

9.) DC and Afflalo are starters for lottery teams, but bench players for teams with playoff hopes. It remains to be seen, if Lawson can revive his career and if he plays the right way or falls for stat stuffing to up his market value for next years FA. Temple is a nice player to have on the bench, but usually a guy playing for the vet minimum. Ben is heading into his final season as a King and maybe his last season in the NBA. Malachi is a rookie.

10.) Yes we have length and some average defensive players alongside some below average defenders like Rudy, Ty, Afflalo. My point was, that we don't have anyone on the roster, that one can consider a defensive stopper. Barring some Joerger magic I don't expect this team to be elite on D. That means we need to hope for an absolute DMC explosion to make the Playoffs.

Here we go again......
 
Oh well - eeyore is an adorable little fella and a great childhood memory. :D

1.-5.) Never criticized the business side of the Kings organisation. I'm looking forward to the new arena. It's debatable that Vlade made nice moves. Coach Joerger can only work with the roster he is given.

7.) Skal and Papa are rookies, KK can't play alongside DMC. WCS had a terrible SL and creates problems on the offensive end, when playing alongside DMC. Tolliver is an end of bench player for a team with playoff aspirations.

8.) Rudy is terrible on D. Barnes is old. Casspi is solid.

9.) DC and Afflalo are starters for lottery teams, but bench players for teams with playoff hopes. It remains to be seen, if Lawson can revive his career and if he plays the right way or falls for stat stuffing to up his market value for next years FA. Temple is a nice player to have on the bench, but usually a guy playing for the vet minimum. Ben is heading into his final season as a King and maybe his last season in the NBA. Malachi is a rookie.

10.) Yes we have length and some average defensive players alongside some below average defenders like Rudy, Ty, Afflalo. My point was, that we don't have anyone on the roster, that one can consider a defensive stopper. Barring some Joerger magic I don't expect this team to be elite on D. That means we need to hope for an absolute DMC explosion to make the Playoffs.

Here we go again......

:)You said: "It's debatable that Vlade made nice moves."

What moves would you have done if you were the GM?

Then you said: "I don't expect this team to be elite on D."

Do you expect the Kings to be better on defense this season than last season? Do you think the players brought in are better defenders than the players who left?
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I think that is definitely a glass half empty point of view.
Maybe. I tend to think it's a realistic point of view.

If the Kings flounder again this season then (1) where is the motivation for Cousins to re-sign after his contract is up the next year and (2) where is the growth of the team supposed to come from? They won't have a ton of caproom, don't have a first round pick and don't have any real trade bait beyond Cousins, WCS and maybe Koufos since Gay, Collison, Lawson, Casspi, and McLemore will all be free agents.

That's why the best case scenario is this team being a surprise playoff team. Barring that, I think there could be a lot of shuffling next offseason.
 
:)You said: "It's debatable that Vlade made nice moves."

What moves would you have done if you were the GM?

Then you said: "I don't expect this team to be elite on D."

Do you expect the Kings to be better on defense this season than last season? Do you think the players brought in are better defenders than the players who left?
It's debatable, because those moves do nothing for our long term development (outside of the draft of course). The draft trade was very good.
The FA signings underwhelming, pricey and only short term solutions.
We signed Tolliver for 8 millions. Temple for 8. Afflalo for 12,5. Barnes for 6,125. How did we not overpay? Those guys are vet min players with the exception of Afflalo.
I know Vlade wanted shortterm contracts most likely to be able to hit the complete reset button once DMC is gone, but I don't completely understand that strategy.
Why not sign guys with development potential in their early prime? I mentioned names time and time again, so it's pointless to discuss them again.
Do we really think we can sign big name FA's once DMC and Rudy are gone and we basically are left with WCS, Bogdan, Papa, Skal and Malachi? Because I my memory SAC never signed any big name outside of Vlade Divac. So when we are limited to complimentary role players, why not sign them now, when we still have our star in place? Why this shortterm approach?

To answer your second question: yes I think the guys we signed are better defenders. That and Joerger will improve our defense. But they won't turn us into this grind it out team everyone is envisioning. And they won't fix some of our main problems.
We are turnoverprone and easy to outrun and easy to beat in pick&rolls, because our offensive focalpoint is a 6'11 260lbs center driving out of the high post, we don't have enough guys to switch screens and DMC is more than reluctant to leave the paint on D, because that way he will pick up fouls too quickly. Oh Joerger coached a great defensive team around two "slower" bigs in Memphis, but this team had Conley, Allen and Lee and non of our new signings is close to being that kind of a defensive player.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
The FA signings underwhelming, pricey and only short term solutions.
We signed Tolliver for 8 millions. Temple for 8. Afflalo for 12,5. Barnes for 6,125. How did we not overpay? Those guys are vet min players with the exception of Afflalo.
If we had offered Tolliver, Barnes, and Temple the vet minimum, they'd be playing elsewhere, on contracts at least close to what we gave them. None of them are vet minimum guys.

Sure, there's no game changer there, but all are solid rotation players. You can't sign a solid rotation player for the vet minimum unless 1) They're hunting a ring (Hi, David West!) which rules us out, or 2) They're coming off a terrible season and are saddled with attitude problems and maybe four DUIs.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Afflalo, Barnes, Temple are all guys who are so far ahead of what we have been running out there. Ben, Stauskas and unfortunately a subpar Bellinelli and a misused Collison is what we have been running out there at SG. Afflalo is way, way better than that. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Temple is the first guard in recent memory that we can send out there to go slow down a guy....and don't even try to compare Ben's defense to Temple....he's not on the same level. I like the edge Barnes brings. You want a comparison for Tolliver? He's better than Acy with. His ability to knock down 3's. he's a situational guy who Joerger can plug in when needed.

Lawson? Is he the guy from last year who looked washed up or can he produce?

This isn't even taking into account the young rookies who do show promise. Add Joerger and this offseason has been very, very solid. Didnt land a top FA but added quality and a good young head coach. Excited for this coming year.
 
All of a sudden, we are actually legitimately 2 deep at every position, with proven NBA players:

PF: WCS/ Toliver/ Casspi
SF Gay/ Casspi/ Barnes
C: DMC/ KK
SG: Afflalo / Temple
PG: DC / Lawson

GO KINGS!!! :cool:
Actually with Ben we have 12 proven with Papa, Skal, Malachi as unproven
3 deep at SG,SF

Depth and Balance Woot!!
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
Low key roster improvement in an offseason of rediculous contracts... I like what Vlade did.

The worst move was drafting Papa, and who knows. ... he could still be a stud down the road, it's way too early to tell.

Honestly, if Joerger gets everyone to buy in to defense and grit 'n grind, I think we can over achieve this season. This roster is better than the one Malone had, and those guys were competing and winning (until it all got PDA'd up).

Cuz is such a beast that if you put him in the paint (as opposed to playing him beyond the perimeter, that was so dumb), he's gonna attract enough defensive attention to make it easier on everyone else. Add defense + roleplayers hitting their shots and that can get us places. If Rudy can pull his head out of his *** (or if we can trade him for something good), that's gravy.

8th is doable!

Now, what the heck were we yapping about? Lawson?
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
I stand by my earlier comment of "meh".

At best, Lawson is a still young PG who can score in bunches, who can boost second unit scoring, attack the basket in transition, be decent as a spot up shooter or in the half court and be very good running the pick and roll.

But there's the issue of his four DUIs and domestic abuse charge coupled with the fact that he really looked pretty awful last season.

We'll see. At best he's a good off the bench scoring PG but Temple will likely still have to have the responsibility of guarding bigger, elite PGs.
I agree with everything you said, but I do cut him some slack on last season. He was paired with Harden, and that's a tough position to be in. Harden needs the ball in his hands, and so does Lawson. Tough adjustment for Lawson. And, everyone on the Houston team had a down year last year, so it was a bad environment as well. He got to the Pacers late in the season and had little chance of breaking into the rotation. They basically picked him up as insurance. So to my mind, last season is a throw away season. All the other stuff is the major problem for me. I'm willing to give people a second chance. Hopefully he'll take full advantage of it.

If the roster stays as is, then it looks like Isaiah Cousins is the odd man out. The only way I see him being a part of the team is if we trade someone with no one coming back, or if perhaps we trade two for one. Not sure that's in the cards. Too bad, I would have liked to see if Cousins had anything to offer. I liked him at Oklahoma, but he lived in Hield's shadow.