New possible trade ideas for Cousins

#31
Fair enough maybe you can give me some better examples of how Cousins has controlled his temper and shown better leadership skills this year as opposed to previous years.

Cousins started the season with the whole snake in the grass emoji s and ended up cursing out his coach in front of the whole team. Those aren't usually good signs of leadership
 
#33
Fair enough maybe you can give me some better examples of how Cousins has controlled his temper and shown better leadership skills this year as opposed to previous years.

Cousins started the season with the whole snake in the grass emoji s and ended up cursing out his coach in front of the whole team. Those aren't usually good signs of leadership
no they're not. but i've always maintained that it is the responsibility of a franchise to provide young talents with a pathway to success. is cousins a natural leader? no, so work was always going to be necessary in helping mold cousins into one. in 2010, the kings drafted a young player with attitude problems, and ever since, they've largely failed to nurture his growth, development, and maturation. he's tremendously gifted, and has managed to achieve great success on the court in spite of a culture of utter dysfunction and instability, but across the last decade, who in this organization has ever set a lasting tone of leadership and accountability? what efforts at promoting stability have occurred to provide cousins and his teammates with a strong team-wide culture? what systems have been in place to ensure the development of the kings' young talents, to ensure the forging of team chemistry? what upstanding veteran leaders have the kings acquired since cousins was drafted who could take him under their wings and effectively model leadership? what head coaches have gone the extra mile to mentor demarcus rather than alienating him?

before vlade's arrival as vp of basketball operations, there had been exactly one figure at any level of the kings' organization who seemed to "get it," who understood what it would take to build a winner around demarcus cousins. mike malone forged a mutual partnership with cousins at the outset of his hiring, and as a result, we saw dramatic improvement in cousins' on-court demeanor, in his desire to lead, and in his commitment to defense. beyond that, malone emphasized the necessity of team defense, the necessity of team chemistry, and the necessity of a unified team-wide culture of accountability. hell, he even organized field trips that were meant to function as team-building experiences. with this kinduva hands-on approach (and with a less talented roster than george karl had this season), the kings even managed to start winning games with some measure of regularity at the start of the 2014-2015 season before cousins fell ill with meningitis. then the kings foolishly decided to fire malone, and doubled down on that terrible decision by eventually replacing him with an aging, cranky egomaniac who was decidedly hands-off in his approach due to a host of health-related issues. maybe the view looks different from within everybody else's analytical prowess, but i don't exactly have a hard time understanding why demarcus' development as a leader may have stalled under karl...

look, some among the kings' fanbase who lack discernment will claim that cousins "always argues with the refs instead of getting back on defense." yes, there are occasional moments when cousins backslides into some of these bad habits, but there are a great many more moments when he simply shuts his mouth, gets up the floor, and positions himself on defense (where he, by the way, gives a greater effort and makes a larger impact than any other single player on the team). it's as if a great many fans are so convinced of their existing opinion of cousins that they'd rather just ignore the majority of cousins' efforts to improve his behavior so that they can better point-and-sneer at the occasional moment when he loses control of his temper. does he still have work to do? of course. but good leadership always begins at the top, and i remain wholly unconvinced that george karl, ever the divider throughout his career, was cultivating a unified locker room here in sacramento...
 
#34
I appreciate your view but I guess I just see it from another angle. Above sounds like a bunch of excuses I hold players accountable for their own actions. Maybe if people throughout his basketball career held Cousins accountable for his actions instead of making excuses for him he wouldn't be this way.

Question for you Padrino would you rather see the Kings trade Cousins within the next two years or would you rather him make it to free agency and risk losing him for nothing? When the time comes for Cousins to sign a new contract with the Kings do you think he'll be loyal to this organization?
 
#35
I appreciate your view but I guess I just see it from another angle. Above sounds like a bunch of excuses I hold players accountable for their own actions. Maybe if people throughout his basketball career held Cousins accountable for his actions instead of making excuses for him he wouldn't be this way.

Question for you Padrino would you rather see the Kings trade Cousins within the next two years or would you rather him make it to free agency and risk losing him for nothing? When the time comes for Cousins to sign a new contract with the Kings do you think he'll be loyal to this organization?
If the Kings continue the path of the last ten years, you'd have to seriously consider trading him not because of him but because of the ineptitude of the franchise. If the team can show it's finally learned it's lesson and has turned a corner, then you roll the dice with him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#37
I don't even know what it has to do with leadership. Explain this to me.
I can't speak for him, but I think he means that leaders lead by example, and that all those technicals aren't the examples you want from you leader. Nor is cursing out your head coach in front of the team and Vlade a few games into the season. But, everyone has their own description of a leader I guess.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#38
I can't speak for him, but I think he means that leaders lead by example, and that all those technicals aren't the examples you want from you leader. Nor is cursing out your head coach in front of the team and Vlade a few games into the season. But, everyone has their own description of a leader I guess.
I asked about the techs and nothing more. A lot of stars accumulate techs.
 
#39
I appreciate your view but I guess I just see it from another angle. Above sounds like a bunch of excuses I hold players accountable for their own actions. Maybe if people throughout his basketball career held Cousins accountable for his actions instead of making excuses for him he wouldn't be this way.

Question for you Padrino would you rather see the Kings trade Cousins within the next two years or would you rather him make it to free agency and risk losing him for nothing? When the time comes for Cousins to sign a new contract with the Kings do you think he'll be loyal to this organization?
there's a difference between an excuse and an explanation. demarcus cousins is not a natural leader. he's just not. fans can wax all day about how much of a leader they believe he should be, but it will never make it so. unlike many of those fans, however, i am wholly uninterested in the dogmatic view that simply because a player is unable to develop those qualities on his own, he will never be a winner and is never destined to break into the elite ranks of the nba. every franchise is responsible for nurturing the promising young talent on its roster, and this includes providing a stable environment and a model for leadership. the kings have simply failed in this area across the last decade, and that includes their inability to hold cousins accountable for his actions...

i will steadfastly maintain that if the front office acquires complementary talent, if the coaching staff commits to a strong defensive culture, and if the roster executes effectively, then the kings can compete for a playoff spot with demarcus cousins at its core. as always, it's not rocket science: acquire superstar. develop superstar. surround superstar with complementary talent. play defense. win ball games. compete in the playoffs. it's worked for countless other organizations. why can't it work here? is it because of some liquid, ill-defined notion that "demarcus cousins can't win," as so many like to claim? or is it much more likely that the concrete failures and spiraling dysfunction that have characterized this organization across the last decade are responsible for the amateurism and underachievement on display year in and year out?

it's worth noting that the formula was just beginning to work in mike malone's second year, with some semblance of stability in sight, before the front office pulled the rug from beneath the team, and before george karl's divisive approach and all-offense-all-the-time strategy set this franchise's hopes for playoff contention back once again. it's also worth nothing that demarcus cousins is the only superstar that's walked through the door since the kings traded for chris webber in 1998. if cuz is traded, a superstar's not coming back in the deal. it's then a hope-and-a-prayer that the young players and draft picks they'd receive in return develop into even half the talent that demarcus is. so maybe the kings should just try, ya know, acting like a normal franchise for a change? because you can ship demarcus out of town and not a dent will be made in the win/loss column if this franchise continues in its culture of instability and if it continues to ignore the defensive side of the ball. personally, i'd rather hold onto my superstar who's getting it mostly right and fix everything else that's not, because big cuz certainly isn't the problem with this franchise...

as for your question, i would obviously rather the kings trade cousins within the next two years than risk him departing in free agency at no return on investment. that said, in his most recent interview with carmichael dave, cousins made it clear once again that he wants to help return the kings to their former glory. he considers it a "personal vendetta" to do so. if vlade and his head coach of choice do their jobs well, and if the kings are able to make a legitimate playoff push inside of the next two years, then yes, i fully expect that demarcus would remain loyal to the organization and re-sign with the kings...
 
#40
I don't even know what it has to do with leadership. Explain this to me.
The poster said Cousins behavior and leadership has improved since he entered the league. I pointed out how having a career high in T's, cursing out your coach in front of the team and throwing emoji's of snakes and grass all this season to me doesn't seem like he has improved his behavior or leadership. Do you think his behavior has improved?
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#41
The poster said Cousins behavior and leadership has improved since he entered the league. I pointed out how having a career high in T's, cursing out your coach in front of the team and throwing emoji's of snakes and grass all this season to me doesn't seem like he has improved his behavior or leadership. Do you think his behavior has improved?
That's akin to asking the old question, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
 
#43
DMC for J. Butler straight up. Both players are upset with their current team for firing their BFF coach. Chicago is probably set to let Noah and Gasol walk so an All-Star big would fit the bill. As for us we get a elite perimeter defender in a division where the 2 best shooters in the league are right next door. Rudy to the highest bidder in the draft and start fresh in the new building.

Thoughts?..
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#44
The poster said Cousins behavior and leadership has improved since he entered the league. I pointed out how having a career high in T's, cursing out your coach in front of the team and throwing emoji's of snakes and grass all this season to me doesn't seem like he has improved his behavior or leadership. Do you think his behavior has improved?
Absolutely I think his behavior has changed. I not think hid leadership, if he ever had any, did not improve and behavior and leadership are not the same thing. It depends so much on what is expected of him and I think a great number of fans expect too much. He's a basketball player who has been shoved into a position where he is supposed to be a leader. He has claimed to be the leader but that doesn't make it so. If you are asking is he becoming a better leader I will say no. If you are asking if he is better on the court, heck yes. In his early years we all held our breath about how many fouls he would have by half time. The greatest limit on what he could achieve was the number of minutes he could stay on the court. His fouls are now at what I would call a normal level. Does that make him a better leader? No. Does that make him a better basketball player? Yes. He is getting better year by year but I think those of you who expect him to be a leader are going to be very disappointed. or unforunately maybe even happy in what is presumed to be a failure.

A great shame of this last year was that we had a leader sitting on the bench who never got to play and that was Caron Butler. Why didn't he get to play? I don't have a clue. It was a gross error. If anyone is going to say that Cousins scared Karl and wouldn't let him play Butler, I'll die laughing at the depths people will go to try to throw brick bats at him. WCS seems to have a lot of that part of personality that could make him a good leader. I can hardly wait for the pressure to be taken off Cousins.
 
#45
Sac loses that trade?
im being sarcastic, stupid, whatever you want to call it.

My whole perspective is we have one last crack at actually surrounding demarcus with a wining environment via a coach and team. The latter is already in place and with some tweaks should do much better then the 8th seed. All this trade speculation is just noise and incessant speculation. It wont happen with Vlade in charge not that thats an issue with me.
 
#46
I think Lakers or Celtics fans always point at Cousins so called temper issues to keep their own hope of a buy low opportunity alive.
We all know, even if we don't admit it, that Cousins is Ainges best bet for this offseason. From a basketball standpoint there is a huge gap between guys like Love or Griffin and Cousins.
Cousins fits Stevens vision of a big man like a glove - he can shoot out to 3pt range, gives the Celtics the much needed scoring punch in case their defense and ball movement doesn't create enough offense (see Celtics vs Hawks) and is a good to great interior defender.
I totally understand that. We all hope for those opportunities, where a team is so desperate for change, that they sell their best player way below market value (see trade ideas for Butler fron Kf.com).
But how often, does this really happen?
We all know that Napear and Ailene do their best to demolish Cousins career and to end his tenure with the Kings. We all know where this constant hyperbolic raving about Cousins temper is coming from.
Why even bring this into the discussion? Where is the actual basketball reason to get rid of Cousins?
I guess unless you believe Ingram or Simmons are the next big thing and the Celtics or Lakers win the lottery there is none. Otherwise the discussion of a potential Cousins trade wouldn't always circle around something that meaningless as a few harmless T's, while guys who punched someone in a Bar get treated like model citizens.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#47
DMC for J. Butler straight up. Both players are upset with their current team for firing their BFF coach. Chicago is probably set to let Noah and Gasol walk so an All-Star big would fit the bill. As for us we get a elite perimeter defender in a division where the 2 best shooters in the league are right next door. Rudy to the highest bidder in the draft and start fresh in the new building.

Thoughts?..
We lose out for no reason at all other than being gutless.