Latest Twitter rumor - hot air or substance?

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
Two offers reportedly on the table:

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 36m
Am being told Kings staying put with both offers. SAC offering G Ben McLemore, 1st round pick, & Jason Terry to BOS for G Rajon Rondo.

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 34m
Kings also staying put with offer to Pistons. SAC would send F Jason Thompson , PG Ray McCallum to DET for F Josh Smith.
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#2
Two offers reportedly on the table:

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 36m
Am being told Kings staying put with both offers. SAC offering G Ben McLemore, 1st round pick, & Jason Terry to BOS for G Rajon Rondo.

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 34m
Kings also staying put with offer to Pistons. SAC would send F Jason Thompson , PG Ray McCallum to DET for F Josh Smith.
Expand
Not sure either of those deals even works from a cap perspective.
 
#5
Hmm. If those trades went through which I don't really have a problem with:

Rondo/Collison
Stauskas/Brooks
Gay/Williams
Smith/Landry
Cousins/Evans

Very interesting. Not sure about spacing but damn, kings going all out
 
#6
That twitter feed only opened up on the 10th and reading their previous tweets I'd put about zero stock in there being anything in those "offers"
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#7
Two offers reportedly on the table:

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 36m
Am being told Kings staying put with both offers. SAC offering G Ben McLemore, 1st round pick, & Jason Terry to BOS for G Rajon Rondo.

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 34m
Kings also staying put with offer to Pistons. SAC would send F Jason Thompson , PG Ray McCallum to DET for F Josh Smith.
Expand
That's quite a questionable twitter account. 66 followers?

This tweet says enough about that account for me.

KHTK Sports Callers @KHTK1140Callers · Jul 11
Here's hoping OUR Sacramento Kings do the right thing & retain OUR hero, Isaiah Thomas..
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#9
Not sure either of those deals even works from a cap perspective.
Presumably either of these trades would put us over the tax, so we'd have to send $10.24M to get Rondo, and $10.72M to get Smith (both by the 125% + 100K rule).

In the "offer" for Rondo, Ben+Terry is $8.876M, so we would be $1.364M short.

In the "offer" for Smith, JT+Ray is $6.854M, so we would be $3.866M short.

It could be done with other players, but given the other info above, I'm pretty sure this is complete hot air.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#10
It might well be all "hooey," but it's fun to speculate, no? ;)

Here's their latest tweets:

HTK Sports Callers @KHTK1140Callers · 36m

UPDATE: Kings willing to add F Derrick Williams in trade to DET. SAC : F Jason Thompson, G Ray McCallum, & F Derrick Williams for Josh Smith

KHTK Sports Callers @KHTK1140Callers · 47m
Kings will NOT make either trade, unless they can aquire both G Rajon Rondo, & F Josh Smith.

KHTK Sports Callers @KHTK1140Callers · 52m
Financial considerations/Cap management for these trades are subject to change. But whats CONFIRMED is Sac will not agree to trade w/o both.

KHTK Sports Callers @KHTK1140Callers · 55m
I'm just relaying what I've been told. I have sources within SAC lower FO management & KHTK Sports 1140. This is all I can can confirm.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm curious to see how this all pans out...plus I'm a little bored. :p
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#11
Presumably either of these trades would put us over the tax, so we'd have to send $10.24M to get Rondo, and $10.72M to get Smith (both by the 125% + 100K rule).

In the "offer" for Rondo, Ben+Terry is $8.876M, so we would be $1.364M short.

In the "offer" for Smith, JT+Ray is $6.854M, so we would be $3.866M short.

It could be done with other players, but given the other info above, I'm pretty sure this is complete hot air.
Send Williams to Detroit and outlaw to Boston would settle it out. We would then have to fill out roster wit brooks Moreland and Lockett maybe.


Rondo/collison
Stauskas/ brooks
Gay/ Lockett
Smith/Landry
Cousins/Moreland/acy/evans
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#13
Send Williams to Detroit and outlaw to Boston would settle it out. We would then have to fill out roster wit brooks Moreland and Lockett maybe.
It could go like this:

1) We send JT/Ray/DWill ($13.185M) to Detroit for Smith ($13.5M). This would put our salaries at $76.168M, but we would only have 11 players, so we would also have a roster charge (~$507K) for the minimum salary for a rookie and our cap figure would be $76.675. This would put us just a super hint under the tax level.

2) We send Ben/Terry/Outlaw/1st in 2019? ($11.876M) to Boston for Rondo ($12.9M). This would put our salaries at $77.192M but with only 9 players we'd have three roster charges to put it at a total of $78.714M.

Of course, we have a hard, hard cap at $80.829 (the apron) because we used the MLE on Collison, so we'd have only $2M to play with. I imagine we'd sign Moreland and Lockett as you suggested (both to minimum contracts with team options) and then Brooks, though his minimum is actually $948K. That would put us at $79.155M with 12 players and our only real backup to Cousins would be Evans. We'd have a tiny amount of room (about 3 minimum rookie contracts worth) to sign players that might fill us out if necessary (or in case of injury).

Rondo/Collison
Stauskas/Brooks
Gay/Lockett
Smith/Landry/Moreland
Cousins/Evans/Acy

There are three things that give me pause for that lineup:
1) We have basically no wiggle room. We have a ton of minimum contracts, and a bunch of guys that we can't or won't trade. Outside of possibly Landry or Collison we have no options to change the roster. That's what we get. Maybe it's OK - that's a powerful starting lineup - but there's no room for contingencies.
2) The backup SF is very weak. Lockett is untested at the next level, and I believe he's a bit undersized for the 3. I suppose Stauskas (also a bit small) can step in for stretches against the opponent's bench, but one injury to Gay and we are in a world of hurt.
3) The backup C is not ideal. Evans can do it, but he's really a bit small, Acy even smaller. I don't really think Bhullar is a guy who can be brought in to answer that (conditioning, mobility), nor is Oriakhi (size). Again, with no injuries to Cousins we can survive going small against the opponent's bench, but depth is not there.

That said, that is a killer lineup which, if it gels, ought to challenge for a top-4 seed (probably doesn't get there because the Clippers/Spurs/Thunder/Warriors probably hold serve and we can't discount Dallas/Houston/Memphis...Portland...Phoenix...) Man, the west is stacked.
 
#14
It could go like this:

1) We send JT/Ray/DWill ($13.185M) to Detroit for Smith ($13.5M). This would put our salaries at $76.168M, but we would only have 11 players, so we would also have a roster charge (~$507K) for the minimum salary for a rookie and our cap figure would be $76.675. This would put us just a super hint under the tax level.

2) We send Ben/Terry/Outlaw/1st in 2019? ($11.876M) to Boston for Rondo ($12.9M). This would put our salaries at $77.192M but with only 9 players we'd have three roster charges to put it at a total of $78.714M.

Of course, we have a hard, hard cap at $80.829 (the apron) because we used the MLE on Collison, so we'd have only $2M to play with. I imagine we'd sign Moreland and Lockett as you suggested (both to minimum contracts with team options) and then Brooks, though his minimum is actually $948K. That would put us at $79.155M with 12 players and our only real backup to Cousins would be Evans. We'd have a tiny amount of room (about 3 minimum rookie contracts worth) to sign players that might fill us out if necessary (or in case of injury).

Rondo/Collison
Stauskas/Brooks
Gay/Lockett
Smith/Landry/Moreland
Cousins/Evans/Acy

There are three things that give me pause for that lineup:
1) We have basically no wiggle room. We have a ton of minimum contracts, and a bunch of guys that we can't or won't trade. Outside of possibly Landry or Collison we have no options to change the roster. That's what we get. Maybe it's OK - that's a powerful starting lineup - but there's no room for contingencies.
2) The backup SF is very weak. Lockett is untested at the next level, and I believe he's a bit undersized for the 3. I suppose Stauskas (also a bit small) can step in for stretches against the opponent's bench, but one injury to Gay and we are in a world of hurt.
3) The backup C is not ideal. Evans can do it, but he's really a bit small, Acy even smaller. I don't really think Bhullar is a guy who can be brought in to answer that (conditioning, mobility), nor is Oriakhi (size). Again, with no injuries to Cousins we can survive going small against the opponent's bench, but depth is not there.

That said, that is a killer lineup which, if it gels, ought to challenge for a top-4 seed (probably doesn't get there because the Clippers/Spurs/Thunder/Warriors probably hold serve and we can't discount Dallas/Houston/Memphis...Portland...Phoenix...) Man, the west is stacked.
I like it. Send Landry to Millwaukee for Carlos Delfino to play backup 3 and it frees up a little more money to pursue a better 4/5 backup.
 
#15
Well it seems to me of course we would do the pair of deals for Smith & Rondo, but can't see either trading partner settling for that. I hope it happens!
 
#16
yeah, if those things happen we are in for a really, really fun season. Not holding my breath. If PDA makes it happen, he's got the front office job for life.
 
#18
It could go like this:

1) We send JT/Ray/DWill ($13.185M) to Detroit for Smith ($13.5M). This would put our salaries at $76.168M, but we would only have 11 players, so we would also have a roster charge (~$507K) for the minimum salary for a rookie and our cap figure would be $76.675. This would put us just a super hint under the tax level.

2) We send Ben/Terry/Outlaw/1st in 2019? ($11.876M) to Boston for Rondo ($12.9M). This would put our salaries at $77.192M but with only 9 players we'd have three roster charges to put it at a total of $78.714M.

Of course, we have a hard, hard cap at $80.829 (the apron) because we used the MLE on Collison, so we'd have only $2M to play with. I imagine we'd sign Moreland and Lockett as you suggested (both to minimum contracts with team options) and then Brooks, though his minimum is actually $948K. That would put us at $79.155M with 12 players and our only real backup to Cousins would be Evans. We'd have a tiny amount of room (about 3 minimum rookie contracts worth) to sign players that might fill us out if necessary (or in case of injury).

Rondo/Collison
Stauskas/Brooks
Gay/Lockett
Smith/Landry/Moreland
Cousins/Evans/Acy

There are three things that give me pause for that lineup:
1) We have basically no wiggle room. We have a ton of minimum contracts, and a bunch of guys that we can't or won't trade. Outside of possibly Landry or Collison we have no options to change the roster. That's what we get. Maybe it's OK - that's a powerful starting lineup - but there's no room for contingencies.
2) The backup SF is very weak. Lockett is untested at the next level, and I believe he's a bit undersized for the 3. I suppose Stauskas (also a bit small) can step in for stretches against the opponent's bench, but one injury to Gay and we are in a world of hurt.
3) The backup C is not ideal. Evans can do it, but he's really a bit small, Acy even smaller. I don't really think Bhullar is a guy who can be brought in to answer that (conditioning, mobility), nor is Oriakhi (size). Again, with no injuries to Cousins we can survive going small against the opponent's bench, but depth is not there.

That said, that is a killer lineup which, if it gels, ought to challenge for a top-4 seed (probably doesn't get there because the Clippers/Spurs/Thunder/Warriors probably hold serve and we can't discount Dallas/Houston/Memphis...Portland...Phoenix...) Man, the west is stacked.
If we send JT and Dwill and Ray to DET, we could get Bynum back. Nothing else we could really get from Boston, so we would be hurting at backup Center. Smith can play the 3, so I am sure the though is we would go big with him there. If Moreland can really be a defensive force, it might work.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#20
It could go like this:

1) We send JT/Ray/DWill ($13.185M) to Detroit for Smith ($13.5M). This would put our salaries at $76.168M, but we would only have 11 players, so we would also have a roster charge (~$507K) for the minimum salary for a rookie and our cap figure would be $76.675. This would put us just a super hint under the tax level.

2) We send Ben/Terry/Outlaw/1st in 2019? ($11.876M) to Boston for Rondo ($12.9M). This would put our salaries at $77.192M but with only 9 players we'd have three roster charges to put it at a total of $78.714M.

Of course, we have a hard, hard cap at $80.829 (the apron) because we used the MLE on Collison, so we'd have only $2M to play with. I imagine we'd sign Moreland and Lockett as you suggested (both to minimum contracts with team options) and then Brooks, though his minimum is actually $948K. That would put us at $79.155M with 12 players and our only real backup to Cousins would be Evans. We'd have a tiny amount of room (about 3 minimum rookie contracts worth) to sign players that might fill us out if necessary (or in case of injury).

Rondo/Collison
Stauskas/Brooks
Gay/Lockett
Smith/Landry/Moreland
Cousins/Evans/Acy

There are three things that give me pause for that lineup:
1) We have basically no wiggle room. We have a ton of minimum contracts, and a bunch of guys that we can't or won't trade. Outside of possibly Landry or Collison we have no options to change the roster. That's what we get. Maybe it's OK - that's a powerful starting lineup - but there's no room for contingencies.
2) The backup SF is very weak. Lockett is untested at the next level, and I believe he's a bit undersized for the 3. I suppose Stauskas (also a bit small) can step in for stretches against the opponent's bench, but one injury to Gay and we are in a world of hurt.
3) The backup C is not ideal. Evans can do it, but he's really a bit small, Acy even smaller. I don't really think Bhullar is a guy who can be brought in to answer that (conditioning, mobility), nor is Oriakhi (size). Again, with no injuries to Cousins we can survive going small against the opponent's bench, but depth is not there.

That said, that is a killer lineup which, if it gels, ought to challenge for a top-4 seed (probably doesn't get there because the Clippers/Spurs/Thunder/Warriors probably hold serve and we can't discount Dallas/Houston/Memphis...Portland...Phoenix...) Man, the west is stacked.
See, this is the gobblity goop I had to put up with at summer league. I hate people that are smarter than me. :D. Seriously, that would certainly be a playoff lineup, but with a very thin backup group. Stauskas can play some SF if he has to. He is 6'6.5". Lockett is more of a SG than a SF. I don't like not having a legit backup center. That was one of the pluses of having JT on the team. Bhullar definitely isn't ready to play in the NBA. Oriakhi is certainly strong enough, and he's taller than either Acy or Evans, but not my much. But then Hayes was only 6'7". I guess we just pray that Cousins doesn't get injured. Of course that's if this unlikely deal comes to pass.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#22
It could go like this:

1) We send JT/Ray/DWill ($13.185M) to Detroit for Smith ($13.5M). This would put our salaries at $76.168M, but we would only have 11 players, so we would also have a roster charge (~$507K) for the minimum salary for a rookie and our cap figure would be $76.675. This would put us just a super hint under the tax level.

2) We send Ben/Terry/Outlaw/1st in 2019? ($11.876M) to Boston for Rondo ($12.9M). This would put our salaries at $77.192M but with only 9 players we'd have three roster charges to put it at a total of $78.714M.

Of course, we have a hard, hard cap at $80.829 (the apron) because we used the MLE on Collison, so we'd have only $2M to play with. I imagine we'd sign Moreland and Lockett as you suggested (both to minimum contracts with team options) and then Brooks, though his minimum is actually $948K. That would put us at $79.155M with 12 players and our only real backup to Cousins would be Evans. We'd have a tiny amount of room (about 3 minimum rookie contracts worth) to sign players that might fill us out if necessary (or in case of injury).

Rondo/Collison
Stauskas/Brooks
Gay/Lockett
Smith/Landry/Moreland
Cousins/Evans/Acy

There are three things that give me pause for that lineup:
1) We have basically no wiggle room. We have a ton of minimum contracts, and a bunch of guys that we can't or won't trade. Outside of possibly Landry or Collison we have no options to change the roster. That's what we get. Maybe it's OK - that's a powerful starting lineup - but there's no room for contingencies.
2) The backup SF is very weak. Lockett is untested at the next level, and I believe he's a bit undersized for the 3. I suppose Stauskas (also a bit small) can step in for stretches against the opponent's bench, but one injury to Gay and we are in a world of hurt.
3) The backup C is not ideal. Evans can do it, but he's really a bit small, Acy even smaller. I don't really think Bhullar is a guy who can be brought in to answer that (conditioning, mobility), nor is Oriakhi (size). Again, with no injuries to Cousins we can survive going small against the opponent's bench, but depth is not there.

That said, that is a killer lineup which, if it gels, ought to challenge for a top-4 seed (probably doesn't get there because the Clippers/Spurs/Thunder/Warriors probably hold serve and we can't discount Dallas/Houston/Memphis...Portland...Phoenix...) Man, the west is stacked.
If Landry was substituted for Thompson in the first deal it would save the Kings an extra $700,000 in salary AND give the team a backup center. Then either Evans or Acy becomes fodder for a trade for a backup SF. Evans gives a veteran presence and Acy has some upside and both are ending contracts. Jeff Taylor from or Reggie Bullock type players though I'm not sure either Charlotte or the Clippers would have much interest in Evans or Acy.

Down the road Collison could also be a trade piece as he's overpaid for a backup PG when Rondo would likely dominate the minutes. Initially though you'd want Collison as insurance since Rondo didn't ever look 100% after coming back last season.

I'd love to see this pair of deals happen. I don't think they will but it's fun to speculate in TDOS.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
Two offers reportedly on the table:

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 36m
Am being told Kings staying put with both offers. SAC offering G Ben McLemore, 1st round pick, & Jason Terry to BOS for G Rajon Rondo.

KHTK Sports Callers ‏@KHTK1140Callers 34m
Kings also staying put with offer to Pistons. SAC would send F Jason Thompson , PG Ray McCallum to DET for F Josh Smith.
Expand
Hmm...as mentioned by others, that sounds more like fans wet dream fantasies than reality. Would not work financially as listed either, and our #1 pick would be in 2019, making me wonder about the fan's salary cap/CBA expertise. :) Nonetheless, once the #8 and IT were eliminated from contention, that is just about the only way things could go. No idea why Boston would even entertain the notion, but hey, TDOS.

So assuming Capt's depth chart, which looks about right, we'd have a great Top 7, which is all that you need, and 3-4 cheap pro level guys behind them for emergencies. The gaping holes would be complete lack of size other than Cousins, and lack of backup wings. Think the $7mil TPE would still be out there though, if we used it on something small benath the hard apron. Ditto for a minimum level vet of some sort.

P.S. Cap, was not sure how you wrote it, but looked like you a) calculated the roster charges at the time of the trades. but b) then used that calculation as a starting point when you added in players to actually fill those slots, when in fact those players should be replacing the charge slots?
 
#25
If Landry was substituted for Thompson in the first deal it would save the Kings an extra $700,000 in salary AND give the team a backup center. Then either Evans or Acy becomes fodder for a trade for a backup SF. Evans gives a veteran presence and Acy has some upside and both are ending contracts. Jeff Taylor from or Reggie Bullock type players though I'm not sure either Charlotte or the Clippers would have much interest in Evans or Acy.

Down the road Collison could also be a trade piece as he's overpaid for a backup PG when Rondo would likely dominate the minutes. Initially though you'd want Collison as insurance since Rondo didn't ever look 100% after coming back last season.

I'd love to see this pair of deals happen. I don't think they will but it's fun to speculate in TDOS.
This would be much better.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#26
P.S. Cap, was not sure how you wrote it, but looked like you a) calculated the roster charges at the time of the trades. but b) then used that calculation as a starting point when you added in players to actually fill those slots, when in fact those players should be replacing the charge slots?
Not exactly. I swapped two roster charges for the hypothetical Lockett/Moreland pair but since Brooks is a 3-year vet his minimum salary is higher and I had to bump the corresponding roster charge by about $450K to account for that. It went from ~$78.7M (9 players plus three roster charges) to ~$79.15M (Original 9 plus Brooks/Lockett/Moreland). So that's the small discrepancy - but in that final number the roster charges are gone.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#27
This would be much better.
Yeah, but you need to convince the Pistons (and the Celtics) to take the deal in the first place. I think we're pretty much pushing the limits of plausibility on that one as it stands. Could the Pistons possibly prefer Landry to JT? I wouldn't count on it. Also, if Sham's numbers are right, our net savings by swapping Landry for JT would be about $450K, not $700K.
 
#28
Yeah, but you need to convince the Pistons (and the Celtics) to take the deal in the first place. I think we're pretty much pushing the limits of plausibility on that one as it stands. Could the Pistons possibly prefer Landry to JT? I wouldn't count on it. Also, if Sham's numbers are right, our net savings by swapping Landry for JT would be about $450K, not $700K.
Agree but it's funny to see that a lot of Pistons fans seem to prefer Landry for their team. Which isn't saying anything.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#29
If we send JT and Dwill and Ray to DET, we could get Bynum back. Nothing else we could really get from Boston, so we would be hurting at backup Center. Smith can play the 3, so I am sure the though is we would go big with him there. If Moreland can really be a defensive force, it might work.
If we did both of these deals, Bynum's $2.9M would push us over the apron, which we are not allowed to do. For a third PG we could pick up a rookie or possibly Cunningham, who would cost a bit more.

Smith as the backup SF is a scary, though plausible, solution to the depth issues there.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#30
I think this gives us even less wiggle room on future deals and doesn't address the needs we would have at sf and c
You get a starting lineup with rondo, gay, smith and, cousins. And you are worried about backup needs and wiggle room. That lineup is what teams wiggle room is shooting for. You don't forgo the chance at two star level players at pg and PF when those positions are needs themselves because of backups.

Collison, brooks, Landry, Evans, acy. Are solid backups. You don't do this trade and two of those are starting and you have JT and Williams as backup SF and C. You do it and starting lineup improves tremendously as does backup pg and backup PF. So you replace JT with Moreland,Evans,acy as backup C. You acy,smith or sign FA for SF backup