Kings select for the 8th pick - Nik Stauskas
- Thread starter Rockmeister
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Yes highlights are fun, but the big picture here is that the scouting videos show you why Stauskas is destined to be a role-payer in the NBA. He can't defend his position in college and he's moving on now to play against some of the best athletes in the world. He's got a great package of skills offensively and I'm sure he'll make a mark right away with his ability to create and knock down jumpers, but you want starters who can play both sides of the ball. It's not just physical attributes that hold him back -- length and foot speed are important, but what really separates great defenders from merely average or worse ones is that ability to take the initiative and force the other player into difficult positions. Usually players either have that or don't at this point in their career.
Those old Sac teams didn't always have a ton of great individual defenders but they had capable defenders with offensive games to go along with them.
It's the way you build your team that's important. If Christie was a SF and Peja was the SG (assuming they switched bodies and kept the same defensive skills) our team would have been much much worse because we wouldn't have had that lock down perimeter defender. You have to have at least a couple guys who can lock their man down and allow the rest of the team to play team defense. It's why we can't go into this season with our guards both being bad defenders.
Our team doesn't have any real good individual defenders at all. The teams that play the best "team defense" still have James, Leonard, George, Ibaka etc. We don't even have one way versions of those guys. There is still a long way to go here before the defense can even be middle of the road.
It's the way you build your team that's important. If Christie was a SF and Peja was the SG (assuming they switched bodies and kept the same defensive skills) our team would have been much much worse because we wouldn't have had that lock down perimeter defender. You have to have at least a couple guys who can lock their man down and allow the rest of the team to play team defense. It's why we can't go into this season with our guards both being bad defenders.
Our team doesn't have any real good individual defenders at all. The teams that play the best "team defense" still have James, Leonard, George, Ibaka etc. We don't even have one way versions of those guys. There is still a long way to go here before the defense can even be middle of the road.
From everything I've read so far from our new members who have actually watched Nik the past couple of years (welcome, BTW!) and from bajaden, whose opinion I respect a lot, there is no indication that Nik has no defensive ability or that he totally refuses to even work on playing both ends. I think he's a hard-enough worker that he'll focus on what he needs to improve to help the team. At this point, ANY defense would be better than what we saw last year from the 2.
Give him a chance. Then, if he doesn't pan out, you can always draw and quarter him next season.
Give him a chance. Then, if he doesn't pan out, you can always draw and quarter him next season.
At UM, he'd play decent defense for long stretches and then have a mental lapse. I think part of it is that he focused so much on offense as he grew up that defense became less important. When he got to college ball, he was forced to make it a priority. His freshman year was horrible on that end, but you could see giant strides this year. Scouting videos don't tell the whole story.
Don't expect gary payton, but he will keep improving his defense.
Don't expect gary payton, but he will keep improving his defense.
But you must have some. More than just "some" actually. this three decade long myth perpetuated upon the Sacto fanbase that defense is some extracurricular thing that any group of talented basketball players (which is to say offensive basketball players) can do if they all just get together and decide to do it is bunk. You can have a few poor defenders, but you need to have a core group of flat good ones on which to hang your "team defense".
When the Spurs play good "team defense" they do it on the backs of strong indivudal defender like Duncan and Kawhi and Splitter and Green. When the Heat play good defense its with LeBron and Wade and Chalmers and Battier swarming. When the peak Kings played good team defense it was anchored by Christie, and BJax and Pollard and Hedo, and during our best year, by Jim Jackson and Keon Clark as well. Its the sort of disrespect of defensive players you would expect of an offensively fascinated franchise to p[erpetuate claims that just anybody can go and become a good defender if they just want to badly enough. That's ridiculous.
And so I think that some of the pushback against the Stauskas selection isn't so much about Stauskas himself as it is about the team/teammates he is going to. If the Spurs make that selection nobody blinks, the stories probably go the Spurs trying to be saavy again and select Manu's successor etc. etc., meanwhile the kid goes into a system where Kawhi and Green cover his ass against tough matchups, Duncan has his back etc. But when the Kings make that same pick...its just more of the same. Perpetuating a defenseless culture. If the front office and frankly after hearing some of his interviews, the coach, would just grow a brainstem and bring in some actual defensive personnel, the Stauskas pick beings to look a lot more acceptable.
When the Spurs play good "team defense" they do it on the backs of strong indivudal defender like Duncan and Kawhi and Splitter and Green. When the Heat play good defense its with LeBron and Wade and Chalmers and Battier swarming. When the peak Kings played good team defense it was anchored by Christie, and BJax and Pollard and Hedo, and during our best year, by Jim Jackson and Keon Clark as well. Its the sort of disrespect of defensive players you would expect of an offensively fascinated franchise to p[erpetuate claims that just anybody can go and become a good defender if they just want to badly enough. That's ridiculous.
And so I think that some of the pushback against the Stauskas selection isn't so much about Stauskas himself as it is about the team/teammates he is going to. If the Spurs make that selection nobody blinks, the stories probably go the Spurs trying to be saavy again and select Manu's successor etc. etc., meanwhile the kid goes into a system where Kawhi and Green cover his ass against tough matchups, Duncan has his back etc. But when the Kings make that same pick...its just more of the same. Perpetuating a defenseless culture. If the front office and frankly after hearing some of his interviews, the coach, would just grow a brainstem and bring in some actual defensive personnel, the Stauskas pick beings to look a lot more acceptable.
Agree with Monster. He at least puts effort in, unlike say, a James Harden (which if you haven't seen that 11 minute video of Harden not playing defense, I highly recommend). He would always guard the weakest wing opponent, but that was because Michigan's other wing guys were Glenn Robinson III, freak athlete and TWolves 2nd round pick, and Caris LeVert, who is an above average defender.
Like Monster said, don't expect Gary Payton, Bruce Bowen, or Tony Allen. Not now or not ever. He's got the tools and work ethic to be a capable on ball defender and the IQ to be a good team defender, which is all you can ask for in today's NBA.
Like Monster said, don't expect Gary Payton, Bruce Bowen, or Tony Allen. Not now or not ever. He's got the tools and work ethic to be a capable on ball defender and the IQ to be a good team defender, which is all you can ask for in today's NBA.
Nik won't have to do much to be a game changer. If he can prove he can hit the open three and handle the pick and roll out of the corner he will make a big impact on O.
Remember we had MT and Ben bricking everything last year.
He'll also make rudy and DMC ten times better just by doing the above.
Up to Malone and the coaching staff to make him a serviceable piece on D.
Remember we had MT and Ben bricking everything last year.
He'll also make rudy and DMC ten times better just by doing the above.
Up to Malone and the coaching staff to make him a serviceable piece on D.
Mostly I'm just trying to point out the hypocracy of people saying that poor shooters are always going to be poor shooters but poor defenders can be "coached up" and turned into capable ones. Stauskas was drafted for his ability to score the ball which is fine, but let's not pretend he wasn't a poor defender at Michigan. His streal rate and block rate are both very low, but more to the point he looks uncomfortable in a defensive stance and it isn't very difficult for opposing guards to get by him or shoot over him. You've got a room full of so-called stat heads saying Stauskas was their unanimous pick and it just makes me wonder if they even know what defense is or that there are some newly emerging methods which can be used to measure it.
There are pluses and minuses with all these prospects. I would never draft a player who can't defend his position, but that's just my obsession with defense manifesting itself. From a more objective standpoint, Brick made a good point about the team context determining the value of the player. We've got an uphill battle already to find enough defensively capable personnel to start to build a decent team defense. I know Stauskas has a role on an NBA roster, but the job of turning this team into a credible one defensively just got a little bit harder after draft night. We're still moving in the wrong direction here as far as that goes and I for one am wondering when that's ever going to change.
I said Jimmer was going to be a mistake because he's not a PG and he can't defend and I said Vasquez was a mistake because his assist rate was inflated in New Orleans and he can't defend. I don't think drafting Stauskas was a mistake, he has an NBA ready skill and enough enlusiveness with the ball to make it play. He also doesn't play a premium position so the requirements for him are going to be much more lenient. But passing on Payton was probably a mistake. Unless we somehow land Rondo or McCallum surprises people and seizes the starting spot, we just blew an excellent opportunity to establish some stability in our guard rotation and add a key piece to our defensive game plan.
There are pluses and minuses with all these prospects. I would never draft a player who can't defend his position, but that's just my obsession with defense manifesting itself. From a more objective standpoint, Brick made a good point about the team context determining the value of the player. We've got an uphill battle already to find enough defensively capable personnel to start to build a decent team defense. I know Stauskas has a role on an NBA roster, but the job of turning this team into a credible one defensively just got a little bit harder after draft night. We're still moving in the wrong direction here as far as that goes and I for one am wondering when that's ever going to change.
I said Jimmer was going to be a mistake because he's not a PG and he can't defend and I said Vasquez was a mistake because his assist rate was inflated in New Orleans and he can't defend. I don't think drafting Stauskas was a mistake, he has an NBA ready skill and enough enlusiveness with the ball to make it play. He also doesn't play a premium position so the requirements for him are going to be much more lenient. But passing on Payton was probably a mistake. Unless we somehow land Rondo or McCallum surprises people and seizes the starting spot, we just blew an excellent opportunity to establish some stability in our guard rotation and add a key piece to our defensive game plan.
I think it's absolutely valid to criticize the FO for picking up another offensive-oriented player when there were potential defensive players available in the draft. But, as much as it's a 'cop-out' to say it, I think I have to.
Because of Stauskas' ability to handle and pass the ball, the FO has more flexibility to pick a player at the PG position. Since Ben has little-to-no handle/PG skills you really do require a good PG with PG skills to work with him, Rudy, & Cousins.
But if you replace Ben with Stauskas, all-of-a-sudden you can get a defensive oriented PG who is only a decent distributor and you suddenly upgrade your perimeter defense significantly. You can run with a Chalmers, George Hill, Avery Bradley, Bledsoe, in a way you never could if you tried to pair them with Ben.
Also, I should point out that if I have to have a really good defender and I have to choose between a good defender at the PG spot or a good defender at the SG spot, I'm going to choose the PG spot every time, because as has been mentioned quite a bit...there are a lot of great offensive PGs out there and a severe lack of quality offensive SGs. I guess what I'm getting at is that it is a lot easier to hide a Stauskas than it is a Vasquez in today's NBA.
So....if we use the Stauskas pick to then allow us to bring in a veteran defensive-oriented PG, especially one who doesn't have the greatest of PG skills, then all-of-a-sudden the Stauskas pick looks so much better, because his flexibility will allow that off-season acquisition to work.
If we go into next season with-out a defensive PG, then I'll hop on the bandwagon about being disappointed that the FO didn't address defense in this off-season, but I expect them to make a move to get one.
Finally, if I have to choose between a defensive rookie PG such as Payton and pair him with Ben, or choose a veteran defensive PG to pair with a Rookie Stauskas, I'll take the latter every single time. At least with the veteran PG I know that he can be a PG. There isn't any guarantee that Payton will be able to come in and successfully run a team at the NBA level.
Because of Stauskas' ability to handle and pass the ball, the FO has more flexibility to pick a player at the PG position. Since Ben has little-to-no handle/PG skills you really do require a good PG with PG skills to work with him, Rudy, & Cousins.
But if you replace Ben with Stauskas, all-of-a-sudden you can get a defensive oriented PG who is only a decent distributor and you suddenly upgrade your perimeter defense significantly. You can run with a Chalmers, George Hill, Avery Bradley, Bledsoe, in a way you never could if you tried to pair them with Ben.
Also, I should point out that if I have to have a really good defender and I have to choose between a good defender at the PG spot or a good defender at the SG spot, I'm going to choose the PG spot every time, because as has been mentioned quite a bit...there are a lot of great offensive PGs out there and a severe lack of quality offensive SGs. I guess what I'm getting at is that it is a lot easier to hide a Stauskas than it is a Vasquez in today's NBA.
So....if we use the Stauskas pick to then allow us to bring in a veteran defensive-oriented PG, especially one who doesn't have the greatest of PG skills, then all-of-a-sudden the Stauskas pick looks so much better, because his flexibility will allow that off-season acquisition to work.
If we go into next season with-out a defensive PG, then I'll hop on the bandwagon about being disappointed that the FO didn't address defense in this off-season, but I expect them to make a move to get one.
Finally, if I have to choose between a defensive rookie PG such as Payton and pair him with Ben, or choose a veteran defensive PG to pair with a Rookie Stauskas, I'll take the latter every single time. At least with the veteran PG I know that he can be a PG. There isn't any guarantee that Payton will be able to come in and successfully run a team at the NBA level.
Below average defenders in college are not automatically going to be serviceable on D in the NBA. Asking the coaching staff to turn the former into the latter is probably asking too much. What's more likely is that you build a game plan which mitigates the damage such as matching him up with a lesser offensive threat or switching him off the ball handler when possible or bringing help in the form of traps and gimmicky zone defenses. All of these strategies though require you to surround the weaker defender with stronger ones.
Just as you have to balance the good any player brings to your team offensively with how they affect your ability to defend (and vice-versa), you're unlikely to build a lineup where all five players excel on both ends of the ball. That's why you need to be smart about making sure your personnel doesn't tip entirely to one extreme or the other. Too many defensive specialists and you wind up with a team like Charlotte who struggled to score points most of the year but kept games close enough to eke out a playoff spot. Too many offensive specialists and you end up with a team like Denver which was top 10 in scoring this year but gave up 2 points per game more than they scored (and allowed 11.5 points more per game than the league average). We didn't draft Nik with the intention of stashing him on the bench. Not long term. Which means there's now an even greater need than there was before to find some plus defenders to add to our team.
In a world where there are no defensive minded PGs available who also happen to be experienced at setting up teammates with good scoring opportunities I can see why you might make that argument. That's just it though... why risk taking one step forward and two steps back when there is a different player available who would compliment the SG we've already invested a top 10 pick and a year of development time on? People are going to say (and have said) that Payton's lack of a jumpshot makes him a bigger risk to meet his potential in the NBA. Bull. Stauskas can shoot the ball but can he defend anyone? Payton's defense is already an NBA ready skill in the same way that Stauskas' jumper is. It's simply a matter of preference whether you prefer one or the other. And by choosing the player who replaces Ben instead of the player who compliments him, we're devaluing our own assets and making it more difficult to pull out of this nowhere mid-lottery hole we've put ourselves in. Sure we could maybe find a perfect veteran to patch over the problem but what if we don't? Why intentionally create more problems to solve down the line?
Just as you have to balance the good any player brings to your team offensively with how they affect your ability to defend (and vice-versa), you're unlikely to build a lineup where all five players excel on both ends of the ball. That's why you need to be smart about making sure your personnel doesn't tip entirely to one extreme or the other. Too many defensive specialists and you wind up with a team like Charlotte who struggled to score points most of the year but kept games close enough to eke out a playoff spot. Too many offensive specialists and you end up with a team like Denver which was top 10 in scoring this year but gave up 2 points per game more than they scored (and allowed 11.5 points more per game than the league average). We didn't draft Nik with the intention of stashing him on the bench. Not long term. Which means there's now an even greater need than there was before to find some plus defenders to add to our team.
In a world where there are no defensive minded PGs available who also happen to be experienced at setting up teammates with good scoring opportunities I can see why you might make that argument. That's just it though... why risk taking one step forward and two steps back when there is a different player available who would compliment the SG we've already invested a top 10 pick and a year of development time on? People are going to say (and have said) that Payton's lack of a jumpshot makes him a bigger risk to meet his potential in the NBA. Bull. Stauskas can shoot the ball but can he defend anyone? Payton's defense is already an NBA ready skill in the same way that Stauskas' jumper is. It's simply a matter of preference whether you prefer one or the other. And by choosing the player who replaces Ben instead of the player who compliments him, we're devaluing our own assets and making it more difficult to pull out of this nowhere mid-lottery hole we've put ourselves in. Sure we could maybe find a perfect veteran to patch over the problem but what if we don't? Why intentionally create more problems to solve down the line?
This essentially what it comes down to for me. We appear to be in a win now mode, but we wasted a draft pick. We need to get complimentary players. If you want Klay Thompson, then go after Klay Thompson. Otherwise build around your current assets or trade the ones you don't want. They did none of that.
Jimmer was a shooter and hit a good %, but we didn't win with him. Thornton was a good shooter, but not in this system. Ben was considered a good shooter until he played with this team. Maybe it's more than getting a shooter. Most of the time, when and where you get the ball affects how good a shooter is. That's why players get better with Nash. That's why we keep hearing "pass first" PG from this FO, yet they passed up on what could be one in the draft.
My complaints are not about Nik. It's about the FO appearing not be doing what we all know they should be doing.
Jimmer was a shooter and hit a good %, but we didn't win with him. Thornton was a good shooter, but not in this system. Ben was considered a good shooter until he played with this team. Maybe it's more than getting a shooter. Most of the time, when and where you get the ball affects how good a shooter is. That's why players get better with Nash. That's why we keep hearing "pass first" PG from this FO, yet they passed up on what could be one in the draft.
My complaints are not about Nik. It's about the FO appearing not be doing what we all know they should be doing.
How did we "waste it"? If there were no takers in trade, and we took a nice player, how was it a waste? Unless you thought Payton would come in and contribute more than Nik?
I really like the Stauskas pick, I just don't like the lack of a trade or FA more for the other pieces. But the draft in itself... with selection #8 - the more we read about Nik the more reasonable it seems I think. Vonleh had to be sliding so bad for a reason, and Payton seems just as speculative as Nik.
I really like the Stauskas pick, I just don't like the lack of a trade or FA more for the other pieces. But the draft in itself... with selection #8 - the more we read about Nik the more reasonable it seems I think. Vonleh had to be sliding so bad for a reason, and Payton seems just as speculative as Nik.