King Keegan
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
It hurts me they aren't team Popeye's on this. Also I'm sorry but $300 ~41 times per year (I'll go with games played since he said road trip) should not damage his pocketbook but then again this guy is like driving grandma's 30 year old car around town isn't he?
This doesn't surprise me if it coincided with the one real rough stretch he had his second month.
This doesn't surprise me if it coincided with the one real rough stretch he had his second month.
A lot of people have been projecting that Keegan can be our 3rd star. How can we ensure that his growth gets towards that?
It feels like Keegan doesn't understand just how good he is. He had a tendency to be passive and content as the 5th option out of our starting lineup. We saw that passiveness for the first 3 games of the playoffs until he finally changed it up for the rest of the series. A lot of the discourse about his future kinda reminds me of the same for O.G. Anunoby and De'Andre Hunter. Both fan bases were really excited about their bigger wings and saw them as future #2 stars. However, both guys have current plateaued. They're still good players, but haven't been anything more than complimentary role players. How can he have a similar Franz Wagner jump? In his 2nd year, Wagner has averaged an impressive 18.6pts 4.1rebs 3.5asts 1stl on 48.5/36.1/84.2.
Looking at Keegan's 2nd year, how can he progress towards stardom? Do we ask him to incorporate his college game where he absolutely dominated as a post scorer? Or do we ask him to be more of a face-up ball handler who attacks from the 3pt line? Or do we develop him as more into a Klay Thompson off-ball shooter who's primarily out in the perimeter?
Some very interesting things to think about. More important thing anything will be Keegan's mentality about having a bigger offensive role on this team.
It feels like Keegan doesn't understand just how good he is. He had a tendency to be passive and content as the 5th option out of our starting lineup. We saw that passiveness for the first 3 games of the playoffs until he finally changed it up for the rest of the series. A lot of the discourse about his future kinda reminds me of the same for O.G. Anunoby and De'Andre Hunter. Both fan bases were really excited about their bigger wings and saw them as future #2 stars. However, both guys have current plateaued. They're still good players, but haven't been anything more than complimentary role players. How can he have a similar Franz Wagner jump? In his 2nd year, Wagner has averaged an impressive 18.6pts 4.1rebs 3.5asts 1stl on 48.5/36.1/84.2.
Looking at Keegan's 2nd year, how can he progress towards stardom? Do we ask him to incorporate his college game where he absolutely dominated as a post scorer? Or do we ask him to be more of a face-up ball handler who attacks from the 3pt line? Or do we develop him as more into a Klay Thompson off-ball shooter who's primarily out in the perimeter?
Some very interesting things to think about. More important thing anything will be Keegan's mentality about having a bigger offensive role on this team.
I think it’s largely just more touches. I’d like to see him average 2 more 3 pt attempts a game (8.3) and 4 more attempts inside the arc. Thats likely around 6 more points a game. That would get him to 18 a game next year. If he can do that and play consistently good defense you are on to something. Down the road he will need to get to the line a bit more to push his average up.
He's got work to do. There's no switch that he can turn on where he can dominate in the post like he did in college. We saw plenty of flashes throughout the season and it's obvious that his interior game needs a ton of work. He routinely got his shot blocked as much as any SF I've seen. He's going to need to add some wrinkles to his game to be effective closer to the rim. He should be able to take notes from Barnes and Huerter in that area.
That and ball handling are probably the two biggest areas of improvement needed.
I'm not sure if he'll average 18 a game next year if we still have a good squad but 15 shouldn't be out of the cards.
That and ball handling are probably the two biggest areas of improvement needed.
I'm not sure if he'll average 18 a game next year if we still have a good squad but 15 shouldn't be out of the cards.
I’d argue Keegan’s ideal shot diet should be similar to Klays ie 90 percent from 3 and mid range and 10 percent on cuts and transition drives. If we are looking for Keegan to develop a clear them out iso drive and finish game I think we will be disappointed.
step 1) increase volume of 3pt attempts
step 2) Take more mid range shots like he did in the playoffs
step 3) be more aggressive cutting and moving off ball. He stands around sometimes
step 4) build on your playoff defensive performance. Getting stronger and more fit will help
step 5) increase playmaking for others in transition and when in the midrange. Something he has shown a bit of.
To me these are reasonable goals for him moving forward. Nothing outside of his skill set and if he does them all he is an 18+ points per game player either next year or the following.
step 1) increase volume of 3pt attempts
step 2) Take more mid range shots like he did in the playoffs
step 3) be more aggressive cutting and moving off ball. He stands around sometimes
step 4) build on your playoff defensive performance. Getting stronger and more fit will help
step 5) increase playmaking for others in transition and when in the midrange. Something he has shown a bit of.
To me these are reasonable goals for him moving forward. Nothing outside of his skill set and if he does them all he is an 18+ points per game player either next year or the following.
More than anything else he has to adopt an attitude of aggression toward the game, a take no prisoners approach, rather than just being in comfortable being a team player (like he was in college). From increased aggression there will come all kind of improvements to his offense and defense, including taking over games single-handidly. I don't see any reason why this couldn't happen, as it's very common for younger players to develop more aggression with age.
Let's just say that Murray doesn't improve his ball handling to a sufficient enough level (One of the harder things to improve on). Has there ever been a guy his size who is an all-star with such shaky handles? The only guy that comes kind of close that I could think of is maybe Klay Thompson.
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It'll be hard without handles. Even Klay isn't a good comparison because he plays SG and is quicker and a lot more nimble than Keegan.
It took me a while to come up with an answer, but maybe Rashard Lewis? I don't really remember him as a good ball handler if memory serves me right. That's the only example I can think of...
It took me a while to come up with an answer, but maybe Rashard Lewis? I don't really remember him as a good ball handler if memory serves me right. That's the only example I can think of...
I disagree on the handles and I think his game looks a lot like Klays. Watch highlights from his 60 point performance in his prime and you will see he gets the vast majority of his points from 3, little fade away mid range shots and cutting. Very few of his points come from dribble creation.
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I'm really not sure where the "shaky handles" narrative is coming from. For the most part, it's not that Keegan can't dribble the ball, it's more that he refuses to for whatever reason (and also he was playing most of the season with a broken thumb in his dribbling hand). I think we saw as the season went on that Keegan does have fairly solid "wiggle". He's not a quick twitch demon by any means but most guys his size aren't and, especially in the postseason, he showed enough of a handle to operate as the ball handler in the pick and roll, which is a great skill in a 6'8" forward.
I think it's less shaky handles and more that he is lacking a variety of moves. Keegan lacks the first step, so he needs to study someone like Luka if he wants some ISO scoring ability. If he is able to replicate even 75% of Luka's dribbling/shifty ability with the ball, mixed with Murray's own elite shooting, that's a scary player.
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Murray is not going to develop the ball handling to be a significant shot creator for himself. It's probably the hardest area to develop at this stage of your career. It's not that he's an awful ball handler or can't ever get to the rim, it's just that shot creation from the wing hasn't ever been a major part of his game, and won't ever be.
I'm sure he'll improve it to a degree. But he's not going to be a shot creator. A bigger Klay with less shot creation is probably a good comp. Murray can be a better defender with his length and occasional shot-blocking. That's very valuable and I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they're expecting him to be a superstar or close to it.
Ideally we still need a second option for scoring the ball after Fox. Sabonis is a third/fourth option when it comes to scoring the ball. Murray can become a third option with his shooting but you need a second option who can create for himself and others. Monk provides some of that but unless he becomes a starter and breaks out, we need someone else.
Scoring by committee works great but when it comes to the playoffs I think you need a second guy who can iso and create.
I'm sure he'll improve it to a degree. But he's not going to be a shot creator. A bigger Klay with less shot creation is probably a good comp. Murray can be a better defender with his length and occasional shot-blocking. That's very valuable and I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they're expecting him to be a superstar or close to it.
Ideally we still need a second option for scoring the ball after Fox. Sabonis is a third/fourth option when it comes to scoring the ball. Murray can become a third option with his shooting but you need a second option who can create for himself and others. Monk provides some of that but unless he becomes a starter and breaks out, we need someone else.
Scoring by committee works great but when it comes to the playoffs I think you need a second guy who can iso and create.
Rashard Lewis is a good comp. Similar physical profile. Good three point shooter. Mediocre handles. Decent rebounder.
I think Keegan can realistically reach or even surpass that level. Rashard was probably better in the post when matched up against smaller players. Keegan may already have the edge in shooting and trends to be a better rebounder.
I think Keegan can realistically reach or even surpass that level. Rashard was probably better in the post when matched up against smaller players. Keegan may already have the edge in shooting and trends to be a better rebounder.
I think we might be underselling Keegan’s shooting ability by just describing him as a “good three point shooter”. The guy is literally the most prolific rookie shooter of all time and was pretty much giving the Warriors the “Steph and Klay supernova” treatment at times by the end of the series.
The list of guys his size or bigger who are also elite movement shooters like he is is pretty much just KD and Tatum (and Tatum is debateable). It’s a ridiculously unique skill set for a forward to have and perhaps most importantly makes him the ideal fit next to Sabonis and a couple of high usage downhill guards like Fox and Monk.
The list of guys his size or bigger who are also elite movement shooters like he is is pretty much just KD and Tatum (and Tatum is debateable). It’s a ridiculously unique skill set for a forward to have and perhaps most importantly makes him the ideal fit next to Sabonis and a couple of high usage downhill guards like Fox and Monk.
As Keegan gets stronger, it’s going to be easier to maintain his drives into the lane (he won’t get pushed off course). Also he only needs a couple dribbles to get to the rim when people bite on his shot fake. All he needs to do is learn the Barnes’ euro-step and his bag and he will improve his creation abilities dramatically.
A bigger Klay with equal shot creation maybe. Klay is not and has not been much of a shot creator for his entire career, and because of the system of the Warriors he hasn't had to be a Kobe-like shot creator for them to win several rings. If Murray is equal to Klay then he'll be tantamount to a superstar in my book. The only reason Klay isn't talked about in those terms today is amnesia on how good he was prior to his injuries. Other than Kobe or Wade what SGs have been better than Klay Thompson?
For those who would like to see Keegan average 16-19 points a game next year, who does he take shots from to get there? Will Fox average less? Domas? KVon? If Barnes returns the obvious answer is him (he averaged 15 this year) but what happens if we bring in a Cam Johnson? Can’t pay him 80
Mil to average 12 a game. It almost seems like our starting unit could use a defense first player who only gets 10-12 a game on a cheaper deal and have your offense built around the other guys.
Mil to average 12 a game. It almost seems like our starting unit could use a defense first player who only gets 10-12 a game on a cheaper deal and have your offense built around the other guys.
Easily Barnes/Cameron Johnson. You don’t bring in Cam Johnson to score, you bring him in for 3&D. That 80million is the going rate for those types of players these days.
I think it's hard to find a cheaper 3&D player.. maybe Naz Reid, but you'll have to sacrifice some of that 3pt shooting for defense.
I think it's hard to find a cheaper 3&D player.. maybe Naz Reid, but you'll have to sacrifice some of that 3pt shooting for defense.
The shots are there, I think it's partly on the Kings to actually not freaking forget about him for an entire game after he goes 4-5 in the first quarter and hopefully he develops the confidence of "Get me the damn ball, I have it going" sort of mentality that all good scorers develop.
That's kind of the beauty of our core. There's no super mega ultra offensive hub like a Luka where everyone else has to fight for scraps after him. Domas is the most unselfish star in the NBA and Fox is way more unselfish than most of his elite contemporary guards.
That's kind of the beauty of our core. There's no super mega ultra offensive hub like a Luka where everyone else has to fight for scraps after him. Domas is the most unselfish star in the NBA and Fox is way more unselfish than most of his elite contemporary guards.
I can’t imagine the Nets would want HB over Cam considering age and where they are as a team. Even if Cam doesn’t want to sign, I’d imagine Nets would want something else in return. The Nets are in a really odd spot with no cap space, A millions wings and no control over their own draft picks for another couple drafts.