I have been hearing rumors (thanks Rudy Gay) about the Kings being interested in Josh Smith. At this point (Kings have signed James Anderson, Rondo, Belinelli, Koufos & Casspi), it seems like the Kings would no longer have the funds to sign him to anything but a minimum deal... meaning he will likely be going to a different team, but they could do a sign and trade using Moreland and/or McCallum with Houston if they really wanted him badly (and I am not sure that they do). Am I wrong?
Josh Smith?
- Thread starter NoBonus
- Start date
I believe I speak for everyone when I say: NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
Per Tslam07 on pg 15 of FA pt 3 thread:
If we waive Stockton, this is our cap situation:
DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Ray McCallum $947,276
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Total Payroll = $65,482,261
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $3,617,739
My take is:
So with these 10 players you could offer 3.6 mil to Josh ( with Detroit money he would get 7.7 mil total)
Casspi for Room exception, Anderson for Min, and up to two other vet or rookie min
Can an other team out bid us? Yes
other contenders that he may want? Yes
But we do have his best buddies Rudy and Rondo
If we waive Stockton, this is our cap situation:
DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Ray McCallum $947,276
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Total Payroll = $65,482,261
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $3,617,739
My take is:
So with these 10 players you could offer 3.6 mil to Josh ( with Detroit money he would get 7.7 mil total)
Casspi for Room exception, Anderson for Min, and up to two other vet or rookie min
Can an other team out bid us? Yes
other contenders that he may want? Yes
But we do have his best buddies Rudy and Rondo
I like Smoove's skillset, good defender, good passer, good weakside shot blocker. I don't like his shot selection for his career, but he did take better shots in Houston, and shot a non-terrible 33% from downtown while there including some huge playoff performances.
I could see it working even with him starting. He would easily be the most talented PF the Kings have had since Webber. IF he can limit his shots and focus on defense, rebounding and high-post passing, he could be a good fit as a distributor and last-ditch floor spacer.
I could see a rebound and run second unit working well with WCS, Smoove, Casspi, Bellinelli, and Collison. All of those guys except Bellinelli are fast for their position and four of them can push the ball up the floor and find a guy to score in transition.
I could see it working even with him starting. He would easily be the most talented PF the Kings have had since Webber. IF he can limit his shots and focus on defense, rebounding and high-post passing, he could be a good fit as a distributor and last-ditch floor spacer.
I could see a rebound and run second unit working well with WCS, Smoove, Casspi, Bellinelli, and Collison. All of those guys except Bellinelli are fast for their position and four of them can push the ball up the floor and find a guy to score in transition.
Really, he can guard 3 positions, and some point guards. I wouldn't put him on a center, but he might be able to hold off a center without a post game. He is most of what Draymond Green brings without an outside shot and missing some of the stuff between the ears. I would prefer WCS if we are worried about a stretch 4 (the added length makes it easier to hedge or ice and recover to challenge the shot.) He is the most talented of the big men left on the free agent board and the only one the Kings have any sort of an inside track on with Gay/Rondo on the team.
Agreed. I think Smith would be a useful addition to come off the bench. Our front court rotation would be something like:
SF: Gay / Casspi
PF: Cousins / Smith
C: Koufos / WCS
SF: Casspi / Smith
PF: Gay / WCS
C: Cousins / Koufos
SF: Gay (Smith) / Casspi
PF: Smith (Gay) / WCS
C: Cousins / Kofous
I'm no Josh Smith fan, but the first two options would give us a good starting trio and a decent trio off the bench that should keep us competitive in games.
SF: Gay / Casspi
PF: Cousins / Smith
C: Koufos / WCS
SF: Casspi / Smith
PF: Gay / WCS
C: Cousins / Koufos
SF: Gay (Smith) / Casspi
PF: Smith (Gay) / WCS
C: Cousins / Kofous
I'm no Josh Smith fan, but the first two options would give us a good starting trio and a decent trio off the bench that should keep us competitive in games.
I agree with both sides of this argument to a certain extent.
IN FAVOR: Josh Smith is a talented player and to make the playoffs in the West next year we need all the talent we can get. Have him come off the bench as a super sub (we need a low-usage defensive specialist in the starting lineup) and he can give us some post scoring and offensive creativity to compliment Collison's outside shooting. Collison, Belinelli, Casspi, and J. Smith make for an elite bench unit that could outscore some of the starting lineups in the league. As much as he is (fairly) maligned for his tendency to chuck bad shots, when he focuses on pounding the ball inside he's very effective as a scorer and a lot more skilled in the post than he's given credit for. Zach Randolph's disastrous stints in New York and LA come to mind. Zach Randolph had developed a reputation as a chucker (a career high 2 3pt attempts per game in 08/09 season) before coming to Memphis and resurrecting his career as a bread and butter post player. Josh Smith's 09/10 season in Atlanta is the best case scenario: Mike Woodson got him to stop shooting threes (7 attempts all year in 81 games) and he responded with a career year. 15.7pts, 8.7rebs, 4.2asts, 1.6stls, 2.1blks (3rd in the league), and 50% fg shooting on 12.3 shots per game. That was good for a PER of 21. He was 24 that year and he's 29 now. Moving him back to PF and giving him a strict "no 3's" policy might win him sixth man of the year and drive us into a deep playoff run.
AGAINST: Already there are questions about the addition of Rajon Rondo's difficult personality to a lockerroom that features a coach and star player who don't seem to be getting along. Rondo was unceremoniously dismissed from the Mavericks mid playoffs this season because he clashed with the coach. We already know Rajon, Rudy, and Josh are good friends off the court. Josh and Rajon were actually high school teammates as well. Could adding Josh Smith help to tip the scales toward a full-on player revolt against the coach? Even the most optimistic among us have to admit that there is a small possibility of this. And if we have players picking sides, where does Cousins end up? Can we afford to create such a potentially volatile lockerroom situation in a make or break year for DeMarcus Cousins' future in Sacramento? Regardless of talent, the risk involved here of personalities clashing, players sulking and under-performing at best (a huge factor in our slide to the bottom of the standings this year), or openly sabotaging the team at worst is already uncomfortably high. Could adding Josh Smith to the mix be the catalyst for a complete implosion that wipes out every positive thing Vlade has done to build the team this summer? Yikes, who wants any part of this?
While I've been a fan of Josh Smith for awhile, his horrifying (if predictable) dismantling of the Pistons offense tempers my enthusiasm a bit. I'm still leaning in favor of getting Josh Smith because a chance at contending is better for me than playing it safe and capping our ceiling as "maybe we'll sneak into one of the last two playoff spots if a couple other teams have bad years". But we're already taking a risk with Rondo and there's a point at which the potential reward no longer offsets the odds of failure. For that reason I'm going to take the middle line on this one. I'd be happy but apprehensive if it does happen, I'd be a little disappointed but also a little relieved if it doesn't happen.
IN FAVOR: Josh Smith is a talented player and to make the playoffs in the West next year we need all the talent we can get. Have him come off the bench as a super sub (we need a low-usage defensive specialist in the starting lineup) and he can give us some post scoring and offensive creativity to compliment Collison's outside shooting. Collison, Belinelli, Casspi, and J. Smith make for an elite bench unit that could outscore some of the starting lineups in the league. As much as he is (fairly) maligned for his tendency to chuck bad shots, when he focuses on pounding the ball inside he's very effective as a scorer and a lot more skilled in the post than he's given credit for. Zach Randolph's disastrous stints in New York and LA come to mind. Zach Randolph had developed a reputation as a chucker (a career high 2 3pt attempts per game in 08/09 season) before coming to Memphis and resurrecting his career as a bread and butter post player. Josh Smith's 09/10 season in Atlanta is the best case scenario: Mike Woodson got him to stop shooting threes (7 attempts all year in 81 games) and he responded with a career year. 15.7pts, 8.7rebs, 4.2asts, 1.6stls, 2.1blks (3rd in the league), and 50% fg shooting on 12.3 shots per game. That was good for a PER of 21. He was 24 that year and he's 29 now. Moving him back to PF and giving him a strict "no 3's" policy might win him sixth man of the year and drive us into a deep playoff run.
AGAINST: Already there are questions about the addition of Rajon Rondo's difficult personality to a lockerroom that features a coach and star player who don't seem to be getting along. Rondo was unceremoniously dismissed from the Mavericks mid playoffs this season because he clashed with the coach. We already know Rajon, Rudy, and Josh are good friends off the court. Josh and Rajon were actually high school teammates as well. Could adding Josh Smith help to tip the scales toward a full-on player revolt against the coach? Even the most optimistic among us have to admit that there is a small possibility of this. And if we have players picking sides, where does Cousins end up? Can we afford to create such a potentially volatile lockerroom situation in a make or break year for DeMarcus Cousins' future in Sacramento? Regardless of talent, the risk involved here of personalities clashing, players sulking and under-performing at best (a huge factor in our slide to the bottom of the standings this year), or openly sabotaging the team at worst is already uncomfortably high. Could adding Josh Smith to the mix be the catalyst for a complete implosion that wipes out every positive thing Vlade has done to build the team this summer? Yikes, who wants any part of this?
While I've been a fan of Josh Smith for awhile, his horrifying (if predictable) dismantling of the Pistons offense tempers my enthusiasm a bit. I'm still leaning in favor of getting Josh Smith because a chance at contending is better for me than playing it safe and capping our ceiling as "maybe we'll sneak into one of the last two playoff spots if a couple other teams have bad years". But we're already taking a risk with Rondo and there's a point at which the potential reward no longer offsets the odds of failure. For that reason I'm going to take the middle line on this one. I'd be happy but apprehensive if it does happen, I'd be a little disappointed but also a little relieved if it doesn't happen.
Whenever a guy goes from making >$13 million a year, to being potentially picked up for less than $4 million, that suggests a lot of talent sitting on the table.
I reflect hrdboild's middling approach - I see Smith's potential on the floor, but I also admit his significant potential to destabilize the team (moreso than Rondo, IMO).
I'm worried about his instigator nature, and doubt he'd want to play 4th-fiddle for a team dominated by Demarcus. He may feel the impulse to up his part of the team by rallying Rudy and Rondo in a coup against Demarcus. It's just so easy to do. Demarcus' rep is so easy to take the blame for bad things.
Actually, I've reached my conclusion.
Really, personality-wise and fragility-of-situation-wise, the risk of Smith blowing up the team is way more than the reward of him adding another weapon to the team.
I reflect hrdboild's middling approach - I see Smith's potential on the floor, but I also admit his significant potential to destabilize the team (moreso than Rondo, IMO).
I'm worried about his instigator nature, and doubt he'd want to play 4th-fiddle for a team dominated by Demarcus. He may feel the impulse to up his part of the team by rallying Rudy and Rondo in a coup against Demarcus. It's just so easy to do. Demarcus' rep is so easy to take the blame for bad things.
Actually, I've reached my conclusion.
Really, personality-wise and fragility-of-situation-wise, the risk of Smith blowing up the team is way more than the reward of him adding another weapon to the team.
This is exactly what I'm hoping, and I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to happen. I think the players have all been talking, and I think they are planning a kind of mini Heat thing over in Sac. Rondo, Gay, Jsmoove, Cousins, etc. If so, chemistry should not be an issue. The stability of Vlade though, is really what's making all this happen. None of it happens if Vivek was still mucking around. Players don't put their fate in the hands of a guy like that, unless it's simply to write the checks.
And if it does happen, we absolutely do have the deepest bench in the league, as long as WCS performs up to even moderate expectations. Which is really damn amazing, considering where we were at even a month ago. I'm still shocked at how good out frontline defense is looking right now. It's the best in the league, easily. We've got the size, skill, and length on that end, and it would only benefit from adding a versatile and good help defender in Smith.
And if it does happen, we absolutely do have the deepest bench in the league, as long as WCS performs up to even moderate expectations. Which is really damn amazing, considering where we were at even a month ago. I'm still shocked at how good out frontline defense is looking right now. It's the best in the league, easily. We've got the size, skill, and length on that end, and it would only benefit from adding a versatile and good help defender in Smith.
Marc J. Spears@SpearsNBAYahoo
LAC became aware that DeAndre Jordan was having second thoughts "a few days ago. Blake Griffin has already talked to him, Chris Paul soon.
DJ goes back to Clips smith would be back in-play for us.
LAC became aware that DeAndre Jordan was having second thoughts "a few days ago. Blake Griffin has already talked to him, Chris Paul soon.
DJ goes back to Clips smith would be back in-play for us.
Why would DeAndre Jordan changing his mind affect Josh Smith? The Clippers have no capspace and are trying to get Smith for a vet minimum deal. If anything DJ resigning would make the Clips a more attractive option for him at the same contract.
We don't know for sure how much caproom the Kings have left but they can either offer more than the vet minimum (up to $3.5M or so) or the Room exception ($2.8 M) so between the Kings and Clippers the money is similar but slightly tilted the Kings way.
I think Houston is still the likely favorite to sign him anyway.
We don't know for sure how much caproom the Kings have left but they can either offer more than the vet minimum (up to $3.5M or so) or the Room exception ($2.8 M) so between the Kings and Clippers the money is similar but slightly tilted the Kings way.
I think Houston is still the likely favorite to sign him anyway.
I recommend this article from STR describing Karl's track record of PF's and 3 pointers taken.
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/7/8/8914459/furious-george-and-the-myth-of-the-stretch-four
As of right now lets just throw this out there...
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/7/8/8914459/furious-george-and-the-myth-of-the-stretch-four
As of right now lets just throw this out there...
- Rondo / Collison / Ray
- Ben / Bellileni / Andersen
- Rudy / Casspi
- Cuz / *Moreland
- WCS / Koufos
K
Yeah like I love his talent but I said this before him/Cuz/Rudy/Mclemore is half the core which does not make good choices you can only have a certain amount of stupid on one team and with Smith it just exceeds the amount.
We need one guy who is smart and can space the floor with the 4million we have left.
We need one guy who is smart and can space the floor with the 4million we have left.