[Grades] Grades v. Nets 11/18/2012

Who roleplayered it up the best?

  • Salmons

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • Thompson

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • Brooks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Johnson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Thomas

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • Robinson

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
I know a large proportion of the fanbase has gone into mope mode at this point, but believe it or not this was better. This time we looked better organized and our failings were specific rather than across the board. Nets are a good team, if you lose to them and can say "what if" our 6th man wasn't slumping, and "what if" we hit our 4th quarter FTs, and squint and see how you might have won, its ok as losses go.

Theme tonight is going to be Kudzu. Which will elicit a "huh?" from fans from much of the world, but elicit a groan for those from the Southeastern U.S. and possibly any form East Asia.

Boxscore

Stats:28min 2pts (1-3, 0-0, 0-0) 5reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Salmons ( C+ ) -- the first of several players tonight who rather shockingly actually tried to play a role. With John it was as much about what he was NOT doing as what he was. Now unfortunately part of what he was not doing was shooting, as he did not provide any spacing and after two ugly three point bricks in the early going, he did not even try. But he also didn't disrupt us, something that JJ has yet to master. When he finally did get his only basket of the game in the the second half, it was off of the classic Salmons dribble around a bit and shoot a midrange jumper play, but it was the only one of its kind. He only took 3 shots in 28min, and that was a GOOD thing, as it allowed others to get into rhythm. He moved the ball decently rather than stopping it, although his only assist came on a nice full court pass ahead to Reke for a layup. And he played generally good defense as he and Reke formed somewhat interchangeable defensive pieces at the 2 and 3 switching off between the Nets' JJ (Joe Johnson), Wallace, Deron etc., and holding them all down below their averages. So here you have a guy who scored 2pts in 28min as a starter, and yet you know what? I thought he helped. Why? Because he played it like a ROLEPLAYER. An atrophied term in Kingsland that we need to see a lot more of if this thing is ever going to turn. I still can only go so high for a grade for such a thing, btu I was not at all unhappy with the way John played this one.

Kudzu -- so what is this strange word Kudzu?? Kudzu is a vine native to parts of Japan and Southeastern China (the name comes from a region in Japan where the vine is prevalent) that has become a watchword for the dangers of invasive plant species in the U.S. In the Southeastern United States it is practically a cussword. Fun facts and history and pics to follow as I introduce you to the wonderful world of Kudzu.

Stats:27min 8pts (4-9, 0-0, 0-2) 8reb 0ast 0stl 1blk 3TO
Thompson ( C ) -- started off the game with more of his good garbage work in the early going, cleanign up misses for teammates, but in predicatable fashion scored on garbage follows, not on his post moves. When he returned in the 2nd quarter did no better against Blatche than any of our other frontcourt guys, including unforgiveabley leaving him compeltely open for two long jumpers which he of course drained. Was strugglign in the early third, and when he picked up a technical, Smart took him right out. Maybe new no tolerance rule for getting into with the refs ratehr than your opponents. Returned for the late stages of the 4th in what felt like the right move -- put most of the starting linuep back out there and try to win things. But Jason didn't hold up his end, playing poorly down the stretch. Missed a pair of FTs we needed, got outrebounded by Humphries, threw a bad pass for a turnover, and jsut in general was everything but the steadying roleplayer as we tried to sneak bakc into it. Started well, but after the early surge this wasn't one of JT's stronger roleplaying efforts.

Kudzu smothered landscape -- Pretty isn't it? It forms lovely landscapes, which is how it first arrived here. Kudzu didn't sneak on over to the U.S. hitching a ride on a boat or some such, it was first introduced in at the 1876 Centennial Fair in Philadelphia. The Japanese built a garden featuring the stuff as part of the celebration, and it captured the imaginations of American gardeners who soon started using it as an ornamental.

Stats:34min 29pts (12-21, 1-1, 4-6) 7reb 3ast 2stl 1blk 4TO
Cousins ( B ) -- you take a very poor first half, a very good second half, and then some statpadding in the final minute of the game and you get Boogie's best offensive boxscore of the season. It certainly didn't start out that way as DeMarcus struggled through a 3-12 first half, hitting on two long jumpers and one post move immediately after reentering the game in the second, but missing shot after shot otherwise, inclduign both ones he should have hit, as well as several terrible forces again helping to trigger the Nets break the other way. He had several more steals/near steals anticipating plays and stepping in front of passes, but otherwise his defense looked lazy again, and you would have said he was actually hurting us if the rest of the bigs weren't strugglign as well. But it was one of those headscratching games where a guy goes into the lockerroom, and comes out replaced by a pod person who suddenly remembers how good he can be. Note: Boogie started the game 3-12. He finished it 12-21. Which means for you math majors he was 9-9 in the second half, which is pretty good. It wasn't jsut that he started hitting shots, it was that his energy bumped up, his focus was better, and he began playing better in all aspects. I dunno, maybe he had a bee in his bonnet in the first half and he helt it loose. In any case, he started making strong post moves rather than settling for long jumpers or forced drives, he made several nice over the shoulder passes to Reke, and his decisionmaking just picked up across the board. Things got a bit wonky in the final minute as Smart kep on playing the intentional foul game long after the field was lost, and we got to see Boogie spotting up for multiple threes, hitting his first of the season. That aside though, second half Boogie was the guy we were supposed to have from the start of the season, rather than the talented mess we've been treated to again. Don't know what his issue was before half, but maybe we can hope this was some sort of corner turned. Always a dubious hope when it comes to Cuz, but one of these days it just has to be. Hopefully sooner than later. I'm still only going to go so high here because amongst several other culprits Boogie's failure to bring it before half may have doomed our chances in this game, and he racked up a chunk of his 29 with the game out of reach at the end. So an impressive second half and big numbers, but as mentioned several times before, Boogie can put up sepctacular numbers for anybody else and still not be firing on all cylinders. That was tonight.

Kudzu smothered house -- Kudzu cultivation really picked up after the turn of the centruy (as in the 20th century). In the early 1900s it was discovered it could be used for animal feedand began to be aggressively spread and propmoted out of northern Florida (for which they remain eternally ashamed). But the real kicker was when the federal government picked up on it and began to encourage its cultivation across the sourtheast as a crop to control soil erosion. They would even pay you to plant the stuff by the acre. Unfortunately for those farmers you can see in the picture above what happens to farmhouses that intentionally surround themselves with fields of kudzu.

Stats:32min 21pts (8-14, 1-2, 4-6) 7reb 2ast 1stl 2blk 2TO
Evans ( A- ) -- played his strongest game of the season, finally looking reasonably comfortable out there on offense. Impressively kept up strong play throughout the game, no matter who he was on the court with. After coming up short on an early jumper swore them off and just concentrated on what he does well, which is most everything else when he's on. Encouragingly was finding numerous ways to put points on the board, leaking out on the break, going 1 on 1, cutting for Cousins to find him etc. Wasn't jsut a question of a guy getting hot form one part of the floor. Suddenly looked like a light bulb had gone on. Helped on the glass throughout this one as we finally won a rebounding battle again. Defense was strong, but there were several prominent mistakes. In general held down Deron when he was on him, Wallace was completely ineffective, as was Joe Johnson -- obviously not all his doing, but those were his guys and only rarely did they get clean looks. Late in the game though went through a remarkable series of up and down plays as the Nets tried to put us away that is worthy fo description: It began when he mysteriously gave Marshon Brooks a clear lane to the rim for no apparent reason. He came back with a spectaular makeup play, playing tremendous defense on Deron, cutting off his drive and blocking his shot, then getting fouled. But then he bricked not one, but both FTs as our FT shooting collapsed down the stretch of the game and sealed our fate. But rather than hang his head he raced back on defense again and raced back for another saving block. The net of all that might have been negative, but it was clear at least that we had an active and engaged Reke rather than the guy standing over in the corner and shaking his head as he left the court.

Kudzu as pest -- eventually though the Feds began to get the idea that maybe the spread of this invasive weed that was rapidly swallowing up entire farms and forests might not be the best idea in the world, and they quit funding its expansion and reclassified it as a pest weed in the mid 1950s. Too little too late to stop it from spreading like wildfire over anything in its path.

Stats:18min 4pts (2-2, 0-0, 0-1) 2reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
Brooks ( D ) -- ok, this was not in any way a good game for Brooks -- he scored on two hoops, both of them borderline wild off balance flips in the early going that would have been called dumb shots if he missed. He dished out no assists at all. After the early minutes when the Nets suddenly realized who was out there guarding Deron, he was chased from the game multiple times by the Nets going repeatedly to that matchup inside. Just not a good game. Despite he and Salmons being in there to add shooting range, neither one of them hit a three. IN fact they only took 2 combined. But I'm giving him a litle grade anyway because he was another guy who stayed out of the way at least, and that helped us feel more organized. Unlike some of the other roleplayers though, that was about the best that could be said about this on, and we went back to IT for along stretch ofthe second half, and then after a very brief attempt to bring Brooks back, we went with Reke at PG for the close because it gave us some hope defensively.

Kudzu everywhere -- just a pretty picture of a kudzu smothered landscape.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Bench

Stats:15min 2pts (1-5, 0-0, 0-0) 3reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Hayes ( D ) -- okay, and here we have something that hurt this time out -- a roleplayer fail from one of our few established roleplayers. Outside of scoring on a 1 on 1 move at the end of the first he didn't do much right. Most notably of course, our supposed defensive roleplayer up front got absolutely lit up by Andray Blatche and Co. -- maybe Blatche's near exile from the NBA meant Chuck didn't have one of his books on how to guard him, because he had no idea where he was going to be or how he was going to attack this time. Found himself suffering from height unbecoming a power player several times against other Nets power players as well, and in general did not get much of anything done on the side of the ball he is known for. Even his rebounds were all offensive. Tried one or two of his high posts passes to Thronton, but none worked.

Invasion of the Kudzu -- what the people who had spread kudzu intentionally had not realized was that the South was absolutely perfect for it, and it was absolutely voracious. Kudzu loves sunny, wet areas with mild winters. Hello Southeastern United States -- in fact the South is better for it than its natural home ranges, because unlike China/Japan there are no harsh winters to cause it to dieback. And given those perfect conditons it spreads like a horror movie genetically engineered monster. It can grow up to 1 foot...a day. In a good growing season it can grow up to 60 feet a year! It sinks massive root systems that can weigh up to 300lbs with 7 inch taproots, can cover 50 foot tall structures, smothers trees and bushes and starves them of light or uproots them through its pure weight. In a new ecosystem with nothing to stop it it has spread over 8 million acres in the south, and advances another 100,000+ acres a year. Finally in the mid 1990's the federal government fully reversed its mistake of 50 years before and declared it a noxious weed/invasive species, but attempts to eradicate it have been complete failures so far. It iesists most herbicides, and grows back faster than it can be cut. If you leave for 2 weeks vacation in summer you can come back to find it has grown all the way over your door and is working up your roof. Its been nicknamed The Vine That Ate the South. Still pretty though.

Stats:26min 12pts (4-13, 3-10, 1-2) 2reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Thornton ( D ) -- after an ok game last time out, returned right to the struggle he has had ever since the Cousins suspension. This time it was felt even more than normal, as we finally had a more rational shot distribution, but Marcus failed to deliver as our main bench guy, leaving that group punchless. Worse yet, Smart's continuing reluctance to play he and Reke together meant Reke's minutes were again trimmed below what they should have been given his game, and we were instead treated to long stretches of Marcus struggling as the primary perimeter guy. His game this time notably consisted almost exclusively of three point bombs, and I'm not sure if that was the cause or effect of the problem (at times when Marcus has struggled in previous years its when he got too passive/three point shot heavy), and whether or not that might have been part of the plan arrived at in the those player meetings/coach tinkering. Whatever it was, he shot only 4-13 on the night, and 3-10 from three point land. He hit one good one on a kick from Cuz in the second quarter, and then two more to begin the 4th as it briefly looked like he was going to heat up and do the late game Thornton thing. But otherwise, it was brick after brick. And it was more than just the shooting -- he made a number of bad/dumb errors over the course fo the game that made things worse, including fouling the Nets on a three point shot just before half to give them three free points. Shooting percentages are down to .392, and .263 from three point land 1/8 of the way into the season. Need him to heat up, and fast.

Kudzu the polluter -- what began as a problem of overrun farms, then spread to a problem of overgrown woodlands, has moved on to become a problem on the edges of major cities as kudzu marches inexorably on spreading anyplace where there is bare earth and neglect. This patch growing up a pole and along power lines near Raleigh North Carolina was referred to as "the kudzu jesus". Better yet, a recent study suggests that because of chemicals it releases, kudzu actually increases surface ozone levels, leading to the possibility that it will effectively increase air pollution as it encroaches on cities.

Stats:20min 4pts (2-4, 0-0, 0-0) 4reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Robsinson ( C ) -- ok outing with a couple of his athelticsm driven wow plays, and several size driven oofs. Had a big rebound in the early 2nd going right over Reggie Evans, but was too small for Blatche, and was getting bounced and smacked repeatedly against the Nets backup bigs, and quickly racking up fouls. Looked kind of lost in his secodn stint, an early return replacing Jt in the mid third and getting to play with the starters. Got knocked on his keister by Evan (theirs, not ours), which has been known to happen with him. Got one more wow play with an offensive follow in the early 4th to get us within 3 (replay appeared to show it was actually offensive goaltending, but hey).

Kudzu uses -- so if you can't beat it...eat it! Kudzu may be incredibly invasive, but it has a saving grace -- its edible. Not only for animals -- rememeber one of the early reason it was spread was to be used a animal feed (its rarely used as such now because its hard to cut and bale, but wiht costs rising maybe they should reconsider). But also for humans. Kudzu flowers are supposed to smell a bit like grape chewing gum, and kudzu jelly made from the blossoms is supposed to taste peachy. The roots are also starchy, with an unusally high protein content absorbed from the people it has overrun and consumed in the night. The last part is a joke. Maybe. In any case, there are now kudzu cookbooks and the whatnot popping up. So maybe the "noxious weed" can end world hunger or some such after it has blanketed the earth.

Stats:10min 3pts (1-3, 1-1, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 1stl 0blk 1TO
Fredette ( C- ) -- you know, we played 11 guys double figure minutes again tonight. The players may have had a meeting, somebody, whether players or coaches had many of them playing more like rolepalyers. But the coach is still an idiot with his rotations. Jimmer getting bounced up above IT, our former starter and now #3 PG was one of those questinable decisions (especially since Brooks and Jimmer as our "PGs" combined for 0 assists on the game). Jimmer competed well enough, but when you have him come in the game guarding Deron you know you may have issues. He also got caught on a screen and let Watson drain a wide open three. A larger concern was that Jimmer was playing "PG" selfishly, forcing shots and turning it over. That constant problem with Smart telling him to play like he did in college -- which is to say selfishly gunning at every opportunity -- at the same time he is also being played as a PG, with nearly opposite requirements. In any case, he competed, drained one three, got a short stint at the end of the third when he actually caused Stackhouse to turn the ball over in the final seconds, and then missed an open little jumper on a nice play called out of the timeout to close the quarter. Didn't lose us this game, but we were better off when IT took his second half minutes and attempted some of that newfangled "passing" stuff you may have heard about fro fans of other teams.

Kudzu meets its match -- kudzu may finally have met its match, apparently entirely by accident, with an old friend from its native habitat. A few years ago people with kudzu growing on their property began to notice swarms of little green bugs flying about covering everything in site in a crawly mass. Turns out they were something called "the kudzu bug". A species of tiny insect from Asia that eats kudzu, finally providing it with a natural predator in America. Scientists think that the bugs could consume up to 1/3 of the kudzu plague in the south. Only a few problems with that: first the bugs swarm. By the millions. Not nonly over kudzu. Over everything. Secondly, kudzu isn't the only thing they eat. They are chomping through the south's soybean crops too. Thirdly, they are a tiny species of stink bug, so when threatened millions of the buggers relase chemical odor all over everything. Oh, and they are attracted to the color white, and like cracks to hide in, and so are prone to swarming over white houses and cars and getting into everything. Oh, and crushed bugs stain things orange with their chemicals. Oh, and irritate skin. Oh, and... Just a new disaster. Which now they are pondering trying to control by introducing ANOTHER new species, a tiny parasitic wasp which destroys kudzu bug eggs. And so like most of these invasive species stories, it just goes on and on in a spiral of one mess after another.

Stats:17min 4pts (2-3, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 1ast 2stl 0blk 2TO
Johnson ( C ) -- I thought looked better coming off the bench this time. Some nice defensive work on his counterpart JJ (Johnson) and contained himself on offense. Badly missed a jumper, but got a hustle follow, and had only one or two moments of disrutpiveness. Ended his night though with a bad pass turnover just before the 4th quarter TV timeout, so didn't exactly go out with a bang. Still, this felt a little better, and maybe we can get him back to basics and start to build him back up from the ground up without any fo the green light nonsense this time.

The Future -- kudzu will conquer the earth and use our dessicated bodies as fuel to cover the entire globe in a verdant green viney shroud of doom. The end.

Stats:14min 0pts (0-3, 0-2, 1-2) 1reb 4ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Thomas ( C ) -- ok, interesting here. First, found himself bumped all the way from starter to deep bench and was apparently not going to play int his one as Brooks was followed by Jimmer before half, and IT did not play. But with Brooks ineffective, and nobody passing, was suddenly inserted in the mid-3rd and helped the cause. I'm not sure whether he was told to concentrate on passing or not, but that's the way it worked out, albeit perhaps initially relcuctantly. His first two assists both looked like IT was going up for shots and then at the last second changed his mind and found Reke and Cuz near the rim with in the air bullet passes from out near the 3pt line. When he did start shooting, nothing fell, and he eventually ran out of mojo and left for Brooks in the mid 4th. Nonetheless, mild as it was, felt he helped and provided just a bit of stability, just a little bit of SOMETHING from that problem PG position. Excuse me now as I go off to compose my new choral ode I am titling "Ode to Beno". Its a tragedy about love and loss and not realizing what you have until its gone.
 
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rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#3
Kudzu?

Is that "sh***y rotations" in a language I'm not familiar with?


If there's a positive, it's Cuz/Reke showed they can potentially be a very good due and our workhorses, and that's even with Cuz have questionable effort tonight. If we rode them more and other *things* didn't get in the way, might have been a different result.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#4
Kudzu? The plant that was imported for landscaping and has become as much a problem as pythons in the everglades?
 
#6
The Nets can make shots. The Kings can not. Until we get shooters who can hit shots, this will not change.

I think the only reason the team looked better was because the rotations and lineups were better. Still didn't make a difference as far as outcome so i continue to believe our problem is the fit of our players.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#7
They all looked like role players, Cousins and Tyreke included. Until we have at least one guy that consistently plays at an All-Star level this team ain't going nowhere.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
They all looked like role players, Cousins and Tyreke included. Until we have at least one guy that consistently plays at an All-Star level this team ain't going nowhere.

Indeed, I was thinking the two guys who combined for 50 pts on 20-35 shooting looked very roleplayery. Methinks that's a tad unrealistic. In that case Deron and Joe Johnson looked like scrubs.
 
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#9
With two minutes to go in the 4th quarter we were shooting 50% on free throws, had 17 turnovers and 10 assists. We added a few assists and free throw to and by cousins in that bizarre fouling at the end, but I don't count those.

I am pretty sure you don't want a 2 to 1 Turnover to Assist ratio.

There is so much of this blame to go around and a lot of it lies on management and our coaches ( I say coaches, because besides Clifford Rey, I think our bench coaches suck as well. Even though I love BJax and see him quite often, I don't think he is a good coach) but a lot of it also is the basketball IQ of this team. This team's hoops IQ is bordering on special needs and a lot of these player would have had starting roles in Something About Mary.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#10
Indeed, I was thinking the two guys who combined for 50 pts on 20-35 shooting looked very roleplayery. Methinks that's a tad unrealistic. In that case Deron and Joe Johnson looked like scrubs.
Yep. That's all they are - role players. Take a look at their performances since the beginning of the season, not over a game, not over a quarter or a half. They are not high impact players. They are not getting us over the hump. They would be role players on good teams. They may be our *stars*, but not on a team that is good. Still waiting for Godot on this one. I said at the beginning of the season you'd have to see Tyreke Evans play at or very near an All Star level for this team to get the playoffs. It ain't happening. And then with Cousins he may decide to play a half, a quarter, or maybe he might play a whole game, but he's the epitome of a head case right now. You can count on him about as much as you can count on the Tyreke Evans jump shot. That doesn't mean that what they are now is all they are ever going to be, but until one or both take the next big step up, we're going nowhere.
 
#11
Yep. That's all they are - role players. Take a look at their performances since the beginning of the season, not over a game, not over a quarter or a half. They are not high impact players. They are not getting us over the hump. They would be role players on good teams. They may be our *stars*, but not on a team that is good. Still waiting for Godot on this one. I said at the beginning of the season you'd have to see Tyreke Evans play at or very near an All Star level for this team to get the playoffs. It ain't happening. And then with Cousins he may decide to play a half, a quarter, or maybe he might play a whole game, but he's the epitome of a head case right now. You can count on him about as much as you can count on the Tyreke Evans jump shot. That doesn't mean that what they are now is all they are ever going to be, but until one or both take the next big step up, we're going nowhere.
indeed, but how does one take that "next big step"? its an honest question. some guys have the natural ability to make such a question irrelevant. for some guys, its just a matter of "when" rather than "if." for guys like demarcus cousins, it should be a matter of "when" if you look only at the raw talent already available to him at a ridiculously young 22 years of age. however, as you've noted, cousins' lack of mental fortitude and immaturity take him out of games. its unclear "when" he'll develop the maturity necessary to push into an elite stratosphere. so, again, how does he take that next big step? a good coach (and accompanying staff) works magic. i know it's the oft-repeated mantra at kingsfans.com these days, but i feel as if the importance of a quality head coach cannot be overstated, particularly with young players who each must unlearn a decades' worth of bad habits. imagine what rick adelman, with his tremendously high basketball IQ and infinite fount of patience, could do with a player of demarcus' caliber. consider first what his approach did for chris webber. consider next what he's done in further developing kevin love into one of the league's most dynamic power forwards, despite his lack of athleticism or leaping ability (remind you of a certain bitter-faced kings' center?). also consider what phil jackson's zen master approach did for kobe bryant; jax was able to tame and mold a hotheaded but otherworldly talent into the most deadly guard in the contemporary era. and it took years of patience. a good coach is magic to a talent that both wants and needs to be coached properly. in my opinion, demarcus cousins' successes, however few or modest they may be at times, occur in spite of his head coach. in my opinion, cousins' talent is simply wasted on keith smart. as for tyreke evans, he definitely falls into the camp of "if" rather than "when." a good coach who knows how to maximize his natural ability would certainly do wonders for evans' confidence in himself, but he doesn't have quite the set of gifts that demarcus has, so he'll have to work much harder if he ever wants to attain elite status. but remember: these are 22/23-year-olds we're talking about here. while both of these talented individuals need to take a certain amount of personal responsibility in crafting their games to an elite level, a coach who can help to restore their confidence, give them direction, and push them to be responsible for their own talent and their own growth would, in my opinion, make all the difference in getting them to that "next big step"...

edit: and that said, i don't expect the maloofs to bring in a coach who is qualified enough to take on the challenge (and gift) of properly molding demarcus cousins and tyreke evans into the kings' cornerstone talents. i fully expect the kings to either trade evans this season, or let him walk in free agency, because nobody in this organization seems to care enough about his natural ability to develop it, and they certainly won't fork over a hefty contract to keep him. i also fully expect that the persistence of a losing culture across the remainder of this season and next will push demarcus out the door long before joe or gavin are compelled to invest in billboards offering to mow his lawn if he'll stay, not that they would even do such a thing circa 2013. it is clear to anybody who's paying attention that this franchise is in decline because of its owners, and all i can say is, "what a waste..."
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
Yep. That's all they are - role players. Take a look at their performances since the beginning of the season, not over a game, not over a quarter or a half. They are not high impact players. They are not getting us over the hump. They would be role players on good teams. They may be our *stars*, but not on a team that is good. Still waiting for Godot on this one. I said at the beginning of the season you'd have to see Tyreke Evans play at or very near an All Star level for this team to get the playoffs. It ain't happening. And then with Cousins he may decide to play a half, a quarter, or maybe he might play a whole game, but he's the epitome of a head case right now. You can count on him about as much as you can count on the Tyreke Evans jump shot. That doesn't mean that what they are now is all they are ever going to be, but until one or both take the next big step up, we're going nowhere.
But that's not what you said. You said in response to an earlier post that they looked like roleplayers THIS game. And no they didn't. That was a large part of the hope here. You get the main guns going you can find roleplayers to put around them and make it work. On the other hand while you were smothering the main guys and just had a pile of highly mediocre guys scoring 9-11pts, you had nothing at all. More of what happened last night and I again can start to map out a way for us to emerge from the wilderness.
 
#13
Great to see flashes of Tyreke's brilliance again. It's a shame that we have congestion issues on the floor but I think it's more mental for him anyways.
 
#14
indeed, but how does one take that "next big step"? its an honest question. some guys have the natural ability to make such a question irrelevant. for some guys, its just a matter of "when" rather than "if." for guys like demarcus cousins, it should be a matter of "when" if you look only at the raw talent already available to him at a ridiculously young 22 years of age. however, as you've noted, cousins' lack of mental fortitude and immaturity take him out of games. its unclear "when" he'll develop the maturity necessary to push into an elite stratosphere. so, again, how does he take that next big step? a good coach (and accompanying staff) works magic. i know it's the oft-repeated mantra at kingsfans.com these days, but i feel as if the importance of a quality head coach cannot be overstated, particularly with young players who each must unlearn a decades' worth of bad habits. imagine what rick adelman, with his tremendously high basketball IQ and infinite fount of patience, could do with a player of demarcus' caliber. consider first what his approach did for chris webber. consider next what he's done in further developing kevin love into one of the league's most dynamic power forwards, despite his lack of athleticism or leaping ability (remind you of a certain bitter-faced kings' center?). also consider what phil jackson's zen master approach did for kobe bryant; jax was able to tame and mold a hotheaded but otherworldly talent into the most deadly guard in the contemporary era. and it took years of patience. a good coach is magic to a talent that both wants and needs to be coached properly. in my opinion, demarcus cousins' successes, however few or modest they may be at times, occur in spite of his head coach. in my opinion, cousins' talent is simply wasted on keith smart. as for tyreke evans, he definitely falls into the camp of "if" rather than "when." a good coach who knows how to maximize his natural ability would certainly do wonders for evans' confidence in himself, but he doesn't have quite the set of gifts that demarcus has, so he'll have to work much harder if he ever wants to attain elite status. but remember: these are 22/23-year-olds we're talking about here. while both of these talented individuals need to take a certain amount of personal responsibility in crafting their games to an elite level, a coach who can help to restore their confidence, give them direction, and push them to be responsible for their own talent and their own growth would, in my opinion, make all the difference in getting them to that "next big step"...

edit: and that said, i don't expect the maloofs to bring in a coach who is qualified enough to take on the challenge (and gift) of properly molding demarcus cousins and tyreke evans into the kings' cornerstone talents. i fully expect the kings to either trade evans this season, or let him walk in free agency, because nobody in this organization seems to care enough about his natural ability to develop it, and they certainly won't fork over a hefty contract to keep him. i also fully expect that the persistence of a losing culture across the remainder of this season and next will push demarcus out the door long before joe or gavin are compelled to invest in billboards offering to mow his lawn if he'll stay, not that they would even do such a thing circa 2013. it is clear to anybody who's paying attention that this franchise is in decline because of its owners, and all i can say is, "what a waste..."
This is my first post on here since the beginning of the season and you summed up exactly how I feel about this team and the direction their taking and have been taking for quite a while. I no longer find myself being able to actually discuss this team - simply because there is nothing to discuss. This is the same team we've had since 2007, except with a few new shiny pieces. However, our Front Office is just too stupid, uninvested, or cheap (or all three which is most likely the case) to actually invest in a true leader to mold this team and its shiny pieces.

This team is a mess, folks. Great talent and youth is something to hold on to and rightfully so, but if the people in charge aren't "getting it" or don't care to "get it," nothing will change.


Padrino, nice post.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#15
This is my first post on here since the beginning of the season and you summed up exactly how I feel about this team and the direction their taking and have been taking for quite a while. I no longer find myself being able to actually discuss this team - simply because there is nothing to discuss. This is the same team we've had since 2007, except with a few new shiny pieces. However, our Front Office is just too stupid, uninvested, or cheap (or all three which is most likely the case) to actually invest in a true leader to mold this team and its shiny pieces.

This team is a mess, folks. Great talent and youth is something to hold on to and rightfully so, but if the people in charge aren't "getting it" or don't care to "get it," nothing will change.


Padrino, nice post.
Nice summary of what I think are probably the feelings of a lot of us.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#16
But that's not what you said. You said in response to an earlier post that they looked like roleplayers THIS game. And no they didn't. That was a large part of the hope here. You get the main guns going you can find roleplayers to put around them and make it work. On the other hand while you were smothering the main guys and just had a pile of highly mediocre guys scoring 9-11pts, you had nothing at all. More of what happened last night and I again can start to map out a way for us to emerge from the wilderness.
Even in this game they weren't difference makers, they didn't just forcefully take the game over in any manner. Cousins played a nice second half. Tyreke played an efficient game. They just didn't make much of an impact in the overall game. For Tyreke to really make an impact he's going to have to be able to do more than take open set shots from the outside. And by the way, that's all I want him to do now is take open set shots when it comes to his outside game because he can't do anything more than that and he's got to play within his limitations. But what we really need from Tyreke Evans is what we talked about the entire off-season - a guy who can come at you off the dribble and pull up and bury a 15 foot shot - a guy that just can't be stopped because he finally really has an intermediate game. We don't have that now. We have a more in shape, better defensive player in Tyreke Evans. But we don't have the dominator that we all hoped he could be with a pull up jumper or a floater in the lane. The Tyreke Evans we have now is just not good enough take this team on its back and get them to the playoffs. The Cousins we have now isn't good enough to take this team on his back and get them to the playoffs. If this team was a veteran team that could realistically minimize its mistakes over the course of the season, then they woud do ok with Cousins and Tyreke as they are now. But that just isn't this team. They are too young to play that game successfully over the course of a season. They need major difference maker(s) to get them over the hump, and they don't have them.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#17
Even in this game they weren't difference makers, they didn't just forcefully take the game over in any manner. Cousins played a nice second half. Tyreke played an efficient game. They just didn't make much of an impact in the overall game. For Tyreke to really make an impact he's going to have to be able to do more than take open set shots from the outside. And by the way, that's all I want him to do now is take open set shots when it comes to his outside game because he can't do anything more than that and he's got to play within his limitations. But what we really need from Tyreke Evans is what we talked about the entire off-season - a guy who can come at you off the dribble and pull up and bury a 15 foot shot - a guy that just can't be stopped because he finally really has an intermediate game. We don't have that now. We have a more in shape, better defensive player in Tyreke Evans. But we don't have the dominator that we all hoped he could be with a pull up jumper or a floater in the lane. The Tyreke Evans we have now is just not good enough take this team on its back and get them to the playoffs. The Cousins we have now isn't good enough to take this team on his back and get them to the playoffs. If this team was a veteran team that could realistically minimize its mistakes over the course of the season, then they woud do ok with Cousins and Tyreke as they are now. But that just isn't this team. They are too young to play that game successfully over the course of a season. They need major difference maker(s) to get them over the hump, and they don't have them.

You're not talking about All Stars now, you're talking about superstars. And hey, I would love to have two superstars pop up here as well. We can win 60 games and playu OKC in the WCF. But if Reke and Cousins do no more than they did last ngiht I can build a winning team around them. Not a title team. But one that wins 40+ games. If they play that way then you are back in the game, superstars or not.
 
#18
its too bad Keith Smart is either too stupid, or too worried about giving everyone playing time, to put Tyreke back at the PG where he and the team can both succeed. he can score or be a playmaker on every play, run some pick n rolls with DeMarcus. and be a HUGE mismatch to the opposing team on both ends of the floor. its the smartest thing to do. but nope. we will continue to misuse his talents, and continue to be outsized every night. when we could be the ones creating a size issue with a big PG. like OKC does with Westbrook.....
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#19
its too bad Keith Smart is either too stupid, or too worried about giving everyone playing time, to put Tyreke back at the PG where he and the team can both succeed. he can score or be a playmaker on every play, run some pick n rolls with DeMarcus. and be a HUGE mismatch to the opposing team on both ends of the floor. its the smartest thing to do. but nope. we will continue to misuse his talents, and continue to be outsized every night. when we could be the ones creating a size issue with a big PG. like OKC does with Westbrook.....
I'm just really having a tough time figuring out what exactly his strategy is, as a failed strategy is still a strategy. Even when certain things are working he doesn't go back to them. Is getting everyone minutes his top priority, because I seriously have never see that before, not the the NBA, college or high school, nor in other sports.

It's flat out stupid. Even if this roster doesn't fit, which it doesn't, there's no logical explanation for not picking 8 guys and riding them. Even if it wasn't the correct 8 guys we'd still benefit from some kind of consistency. But he seriously acts like guys 9-11 on a 2-8 roster give us just as good a chance of winning as guys 1-5.

How much longer can this continue? I mean, even Smart at some point must realize this play everyone mentality isn't working. He hasn't shown the capability yet to find one or two things which work, and go to them, ride them, use them to try to win. I don't think there's a single thing he can point to and say, well, at least we're doing that well and we'll see more of it. Not a single thing. It's like he tries a new strategy every single half.
 
#20
there's no logical explanation for not picking 8 guys and riding them. Even if it wasn't the correct 8 guys we'd still benefit from some kind of consistency.
truest statement ive ever seen. even if for some terrible reason he chose Garcia or Jimmer to be in that group of 8-9 players, we would still have a better team right now. the guy is an idiot. shouldnt be in charge of an NBA team. he's hurting these players careers. especially DeMarcus and Tyreke. and its only a matter of time before his horrible strategies run those players right out of town
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#21
truest statement ive ever seen. even if for some terrible reason he chose Garcia or Jimmer to be in that group of 8-9 players, we would still have a better team right now. the guy is an idiot. shouldnt be in charge of an NBA team. he's hurting these players careers. especially DeMarcus and Tyreke. and its only a matter of time before his horrible strategies run those players right out of town
He's not just hurting careers. He's hurting our flexibility to even improve the roster. A common theme is to just move some pieces for better fitting pieces. Well, he's killed just about every player's value on this team. Even if we were to trade anyone besides Cuz, just who would get even near equal value? Other teams know we'll have to sell low, out of desperation. We can't get equal value for Reke. We can't get equal value for MT. July would have been the time to move him. Can't get equal value for IT. Brooks signed here for a reason.No one else wanted him that much. Why'd they want him now? We're not getting equal value for Cisco, Salmons,Chuck, Outlaw. I doubt anyone would even be interested in them aside from Cisco's expiring, which in itself won't get any kind of a positive game changer in return. Chuck maybe, but I doubt with his contract.

Smart's done so much harm to player value I don't see the trade deadline helping us.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#23
Even if Tyreke isn't the point man for the offense most of the time, his on-ball defense is so good that he should be guarding the other team's PG. Very few guys in the league do it better. Of course that puts you in a position of needing someone else big enough to guard the SG position which forces you into some unconventional lineups offensively, but if I'm in charge of building this team that's the direction I'd want to go. There's a vision of an elite defensive unit there. We're one or two players away from making it happen, but we've been one or two players away for 2 years now and going nowhere. Chasing after jumpshooters like Jimmer and Brooks is counter productive because they give up just as many points as they put in. All we need are two big bodies on the wing who can hit a set shot and play defense.
 
#24
thats why he needs to play PG. instead of us getting killed on Defense because someone is abusing out tiny PG, make the other team figure out who the hell is going to guard Tyreke
 
#26
I'm still reading, but find I just don't know what to say about our team at this point. I guess its because I don't think this team will get better until we have new owners. The Maloofs are the single biggest problem with the Kings, IMHO. The fans can talk about strategies, trades, drafts, game plans, coaching, or whatever, but I firmly believe we need new owners for anything to start going in the right direction. Just typing that depresses me. :(
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#28
And I was thinking Dalembert would be just the guy to put on Blatche when he was going off winning the game for the Nets.

Think the Bucks would be interested in a trade?

KB
I've pondered that ever since draft day. The ones who got away. But unfortunately Milwaulkee is winning now, and its hard to see them eager to make moves until they aren't. And lookign at rosters, they have a lot more that we could use than we have that they could use. With Jennings and Ellis, they basically have no need for any of our guards, although we might be able to swap one for Beno. Only one who would make any sense though would be Jimmer, as Reke and Thornton need too many minutes/shots to work with Ellis, and IT and Brooks are too small to play any minutes next to Jennings, so you lose the versatility Beno provides them...and used to provide us. They could use a better SF option, but Dunleavy is playing well off the bench, and we of course are the last team who can give anybody SFs. They certainly wouldn't want Salmons back. I'm not willing to give up on JJ's defense yet. So...Travis Outalw? If they have completely fired their entire advance scouting staff and haven't noted he can't play anymore? Then up front they have shotblocker after shotblocker. They could spare one in a swap with us for something different I suppose, but its hard to see the one, other than Dalembert, who is the only real bulk they have able to start at center, who is worth any of our bigs. If Larry Sanders could sustain, maybe. Udoh looks like he always has. I can't see them giving up on Henson so soon etc.

As mentioned I have looked and pondered, and just not seen it. Might be able to shake something loose if we dangled TRob, but you know we aren't going to do that either so...
 
#29
I've pondered that ever since draft day. The ones who got away. But unfortunately Milwaulkee is winning now, and its hard to see them eager to make moves until they aren't. And lookign at rosters, they have a lot more that we could use than we have that they could use. With Jennings and Ellis, they basically have no need for any of our guards, although we might be able to swap one for Beno. Only one who would make any sense though would be Jimmer, as Reke and Thornton need too many minutes/shots to work with Ellis, and IT and Brooks are too small to play any minutes next to Jennings, so you lose the versatility Beno provides them...and used to provide us. They could use a better SF option, but Dunleavy is playing well off the bench, and we of course are the last team who can give anybody SFs. They certainly wouldn't want Salmons back. I'm not willing to give up on JJ's defense yet. So...Travis Outalw? If they have completely fired their entire advance scouting staff and haven't noted he can't play anymore? Then up front they have shotblocker after shotblocker. They could spare one in a swap with us for something different I suppose, but its hard to see the one, other than Dalembert, who is the only real bulk they have able to start at center, who is worth any of our bigs. If Larry Sanders could sustain, maybe. Udoh looks like he always has. I can't see them giving up on Henson so soon etc.

As mentioned I have looked and pondered, and just not seen it. Might be able to shake something loose if we dangled TRob, but you know we aren't going to do that either so...
Bobcats just beat the Bucks. You know the same Bobcats that were the worst team in history and all that? Yet, they fired their coach and here they are a year later with a 5-4 record, while we with all our talent and our great young team and great coach and what not are boasting an incredible 2-8, and a very likely 2-9 record soon. Not quite sure which team is more fail.
 
#30
Bobcats just beat the Bucks. You know the same Bobcats that were the worst team in history and all that? Yet, they fired their coach and here they are a year later with a 5-4 record, while we with all our talent and our great young team and great coach and what not are boasting an incredible 2-8, and a very likely 2-9 record soon. Not quite sure which team is more fail.
At least we still have the Wizards to kick around.