Alright, we got the 8th pick, options...
- Thread starter miltonap
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Maybe great rebounder wasn't the best way to describe him, but he is an above average rebounder and I still think he would be a good fit next to cousins because of how well he spreads the floor. I still like elfrid Payton if we trade down, but if we are looking at 14 or lower i think Payne is someone worth looking at.
He reminds me of a non-headcase version of Kenyon Martin. I think he would compliment Cuz pretty well honestly, and as a senior he was the best HS player in CA. I think people are forgetting he is still pretty young and has a lot of potential to get better. He's the person I want at 8 but I think LA or Boston might pick him ahead of us.
Is it totally inconceivable that Embiid falls to the Jazz at 5? If Cleveland go with Wiggins and Mil take Parker, then the door slightly opens. Philly apparently loves Exum and Orlando at 4 are rumoured to be very high on Smart and inviting him back for a second workout. Not saying it's likely but stranger things have happened. Question is, would the Jazz just take Embiid or would they be willing to package him for our 8th + Ben. Favors and Kanter being there may offer a glimmer of hope but in all likelihood they'd just take Embiid. Maybe wishful thinking but if Wiggins and Parker go 1 and 2, it's a slight possibility, especially if teams are scared about his back.
What you're not going to see in a workout video like this is any measure of their decision making or defensive aptitude. Vonleh has great size and he's surprisingly skilled for a big man (great shooting numbers, can handle a bit) but his defense has a long way to go to catch up with his offense. I can see him being a good fit for a team looking for more front court scoring but I don't know that we really need that on our team while Cousins is here. He didn't show much of a passing game this season either.
Very true. In workout videos, I'm pretty much solely looking at their shooting stroke and the ease at which they move. If a guy is fluid in practice, then he's probably going to be pretty fluid in a game situation. Just Smart and Vonleh really stood out as looking like impressive physical specimen's
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I just don't know how much you can make of workout videos tbh, I don't really value them at all some guys like Martell Webster were killers in there indivdual workouts and are just average, there's people out there that need the bright lights to really step up and that's the only place it matters.
I mean I see guys in games who can't shoot and are money before the game and during practice, like Dwight Howard was a 80+% foul shooter in practice and in the game.........The only thing they could be good for is to get a better idea of what the person is like but other than that your way better going off what occured in college or overseas or where ever they played before.
I mean I see guys in games who can't shoot and are money before the game and during practice, like Dwight Howard was a 80+% foul shooter in practice and in the game.........The only thing they could be good for is to get a better idea of what the person is like but other than that your way better going off what occured in college or overseas or where ever they played before.
https://twitter.com/goodmanespn/status/473621433722359808
Says Payton held his own today in his matchup vs Smart and Gordon only did shooting/athletisicm drills.
Says Payton held his own today in his matchup vs Smart and Gordon only did shooting/athletisicm drills.
Always been high on Smart. Not particularly conviced he'd be a hit on this team as it currently is.
If it's between Gordon and Vonleh I'm taking Vonleh 10/10.
But honestly I'd be disappointed to miss out on Smart.
Payton might be a nice consolation only watched the round up vids on him but his skillset is interesting he could run in a backcourt with Ray.
Just don't see the point of drafting anyone who needs the ball in their hands if IT comes back though.
If it's between Gordon and Vonleh I'm taking Vonleh 10/10.
But honestly I'd be disappointed to miss out on Smart.
Payton might be a nice consolation only watched the round up vids on him but his skillset is interesting he could run in a backcourt with Ray.
Just don't see the point of drafting anyone who needs the ball in their hands if IT comes back though.
Vonleh is a real wildcard.
Great tools. Sweet looking jumper. Great size + Athleticism.
But I've be thinking this to myself for a while now, and its sort of starting to come out in his interviews .. I don't know if he has the right mentality or personality for the NBA. The grind, the physical play, learning about opposing players tendencies, learning an offense, or learning defensive schemes. That part of it scares the bejesus out of me. I think that is a characteristic that has held a lot of young players like Vonleh back. I think that is, among other things, what held Thomas Robinson back. He never looked like he was picking things up.
Gordon, on the other hand, gives me the exact opposite reaction. Despite being as young as he is, he sounds like a player who will understand what the coaches want/need out of him.
Great tools. Sweet looking jumper. Great size + Athleticism.
But I've be thinking this to myself for a while now, and its sort of starting to come out in his interviews .. I don't know if he has the right mentality or personality for the NBA. The grind, the physical play, learning about opposing players tendencies, learning an offense, or learning defensive schemes. That part of it scares the bejesus out of me. I think that is a characteristic that has held a lot of young players like Vonleh back. I think that is, among other things, what held Thomas Robinson back. He never looked like he was picking things up.
Gordon, on the other hand, gives me the exact opposite reaction. Despite being as young as he is, he sounds like a player who will understand what the coaches want/need out of him.
I think the Kings are probably stuck in the muck with this pick. Unless they can make a deal for a young pro like a Schroder, they are probably going to pick McDermot for the simple reason that he should be able to immediately take the floor and shoot open shots and spread the floor for Cousins. He can run around screens to get open, and possibly he can do more than just that at the next level . His athletic tests came in higher than expected. Three to five-year can't shoot projects like Gordon and Smart aren't going to make Cuz happy. A legit 3 point shooter would, although when he plays D, and Cuz has to cover for him, Cuz might change his mind.
Another scenario, although lower probability, is that the Kings trade down. Say Smart is there at #8 and some team is salivating for him because he's so great, I'd trade the pick. Go for the bonanza with both Capela and LaVine. If you hit a home run with one, the draft is a whopping success. If not, you're probably not any worse off - the guy you would have taken is probably a future role player, or maybe out of the league entirely. But, as I said, that's low probability. The Kings want a guy who can play now. A senior shootist like McDermot probably fits their bill.
Another scenario, although lower probability, is that the Kings trade down. Say Smart is there at #8 and some team is salivating for him because he's so great, I'd trade the pick. Go for the bonanza with both Capela and LaVine. If you hit a home run with one, the draft is a whopping success. If not, you're probably not any worse off - the guy you would have taken is probably a future role player, or maybe out of the league entirely. But, as I said, that's low probability. The Kings want a guy who can play now. A senior shootist like McDermot probably fits their bill.
your fears is probably what the other GM's felt when they passed on andre the beast drummond. he doesn't that demeanor that a thomas robinson has. you know, that 4 cylinder motor keith smart raved about. one thing i give credit to thomas robinson is.. he certainly said the right things in interviews, i'm going to work. i need to work. i'll take the talent & size over an undersized worker. if randle and vonleh is on the board when they pick who are you going to take?
http://www.nba.com/kings/video/pre-draft-workout-interview-andre-drummond
http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/10/andre-drummond-deftly-explains-why-he-fell-in-the-draft/
http://www.nba.com/kings/video/pre-draft-workout-interview-andre-drummond
http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/10/andre-drummond-deftly-explains-why-he-fell-in-the-draft/
The difference here is that Drummond wasn't built, nor was he asked or expected to be an offensive threat. He's the garbage bucket elite rebounder/shotblocker/defender/goalie type. Vonleh is a good athlete with good measurements, but he's not Drummond.
Vonleh, like Robinson, is being advertised as a good offensive player. A shooter, a ball handler, a guy who can do it all offensively. What happens when those touches aren't there? When he doesn't score right away? When his shots off?
Drummond is and was able to earn minutes without the ball, and now he is who he is. Gordon can early minutes through his defense as well.
I don't hate Vonleh, I'm just expressing some concerns. I'm looking for something to use between two prospects who are very close. I could be completely off. He might be fine, I just don't know it as fact. It could go either way.
Vonleh/Randle is an interesting choice. I think I would lean toward Randle, who may be getting a little underrated at this point. I'm fairly certain Randle will be a decent-to-good player. Vonleh could be better, but he could go the other way and bust. I see low bust potential with Randle.
And I didn't really like Randle all year, but now that we've accepted the fact that he shouldn't be in the same conversation with Parker, Wiggins, and Embiid, he's looking better in my eyes. He didn't have a bad year outside of the eyes of what you would expect out of an ELITE prospect, which Randle is not.
Vonleh, like Robinson, is being advertised as a good offensive player. A shooter, a ball handler, a guy who can do it all offensively. What happens when those touches aren't there? When he doesn't score right away? When his shots off?
Drummond is and was able to earn minutes without the ball, and now he is who he is. Gordon can early minutes through his defense as well.
I don't hate Vonleh, I'm just expressing some concerns. I'm looking for something to use between two prospects who are very close. I could be completely off. He might be fine, I just don't know it as fact. It could go either way.
Vonleh/Randle is an interesting choice. I think I would lean toward Randle, who may be getting a little underrated at this point. I'm fairly certain Randle will be a decent-to-good player. Vonleh could be better, but he could go the other way and bust. I see low bust potential with Randle.
And I didn't really like Randle all year, but now that we've accepted the fact that he shouldn't be in the same conversation with Parker, Wiggins, and Embiid, he's looking better in my eyes. He didn't have a bad year outside of the eyes of what you would expect out of an ELITE prospect, which Randle is not.
You and you're "I wudn't trade for Jeff Green with our 8 pick" is laughable. You must think this is the greatest draft since Jordan, Barkley and those guys. Can't wait for that All Star to be drafted at #8
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Did you even read what the history is of the #8 pick? Do you have any idea of what the chances are of getting a star on that slot? If you've got a rationale, you sure haven't shared it. For mine, all you have to do is pull up that list of the selections of #8 to know my argument.
.Did you even read what the history is of the #8 pick? Do you have any idea of what the chances are of getting a star on that slot? If you've got a rationale, you sure haven't shared it. For mine, all you have to do is pull up that list of the selections of #8 to know my argument.
You and you're "I wudn't trade for Jeff Green with our 8 pick" is laughable. You must think this is the greatest draft since Jordan, Barkley and those guys. Can't wait for that All Star to be drafted at #8.
Did you even read what the history is of the #8 pick? Do you have any idea of what the chances are of getting a star on that slot? If you've got a rationale, you sure haven't shared it. For mine, all you have to do is pull up that list of the selections of #8 to know my argument.
.Did you even read what the history is of the #8 pick? Do you have any idea of what the chances are of getting a star on that slot? If you've got a rationale, you sure haven't shared it. For mine, all you have to do is pull up that list of the selections of #8 to know my argument.
As for the #8, your logic is flawed as always. It's pointless listing past #8 picks. It makes far more sense to look at whose been drafted at 8 OR LOWER! How are you not grasping this? We can take anyone we want. Previous 8 selections are a representation of the ability of other GMs to draft talent. History shows that every single year there are plenty of good players, and all-stars, that can be had at that spot or lower. It just takes drafting properly. How you fail to grasp this is beyond belief. Arguing with you is pointless because you just ignore reality.
The difference here is that Drummond wasn't built, nor was he asked or expected to be an offensive threat. He's the garbage bucket elite rebounder/shotblocker/defender/goalie type. Vonleh is a good athlete with good measurements, but he's not Drummond.
>Do you really think they are going to lean on him for offense? His offense is a bonus as a rookie. The fact that he can hit shots out to the 3 point line already makes him a threat when they double cousins or a perimeter player. Cousins is the defacto #1 on the team and he can score in the low post. If Vonleh, Randle or whoever they bring in if they bring in is going to be a support player. From the scouting reports it does not say he is a poor defender. He'll be fine as a 2 way player.
Vonleh is a good athlete with good measurements, but he's not Drummond.
>That's an obvious one there. There are not alot of players that are a freak like Drummond. I used drummond as an example in response to your original post of fear of drafting a player that doesn't have passion or questionable.
Vonleh, like Robinson, is being advertised as a good offensive player. A shooter, a ball handler, a guy who can do it all offensively. What happens when those touches aren't there? When he doesn't score right away? When his shots off?
>As all players that come in when they are the first option on their college or international ball clubs, they adapt. Do you agree most players that are drafted are usually the first option from their team? Does your logic make sense if we have the opportunity to draft jabari parker? Because he might not get touches, doesn't score right away, when his shot is off because we have the so-called big 3 and rudy is in front of him in the line up?
Drummond is and was able to earn minutes without the ball, and now he is who he is. Gordon can early minutes through his defense as well.
I don't hate Vonleh, I'm just expressing some concerns. I'm looking for something to use between two prospects who are very close. I could be completely off. He might be fine, I just don't know it as fact. It could go either way.
>This is not about drummond here. This is the opportunity to pick a talented kid who has a wide skill set.
Vonleh/Randle is an interesting choice. I think I would lean toward Randle, who may be getting a little underrated at this point. I'm fairly certain Randle will be a decent-to-good player. Vonleh could be better, but he could go the other way and bust. I see low bust potential with Randle.
>No offense but all players have bust potential. What makes Randle a lower risk than Vonleh?
>Do you really think they are going to lean on him for offense? His offense is a bonus as a rookie. The fact that he can hit shots out to the 3 point line already makes him a threat when they double cousins or a perimeter player. Cousins is the defacto #1 on the team and he can score in the low post. If Vonleh, Randle or whoever they bring in if they bring in is going to be a support player. From the scouting reports it does not say he is a poor defender. He'll be fine as a 2 way player.
Vonleh is a good athlete with good measurements, but he's not Drummond.
>That's an obvious one there. There are not alot of players that are a freak like Drummond. I used drummond as an example in response to your original post of fear of drafting a player that doesn't have passion or questionable.
Vonleh, like Robinson, is being advertised as a good offensive player. A shooter, a ball handler, a guy who can do it all offensively. What happens when those touches aren't there? When he doesn't score right away? When his shots off?
>As all players that come in when they are the first option on their college or international ball clubs, they adapt. Do you agree most players that are drafted are usually the first option from their team? Does your logic make sense if we have the opportunity to draft jabari parker? Because he might not get touches, doesn't score right away, when his shot is off because we have the so-called big 3 and rudy is in front of him in the line up?
Drummond is and was able to earn minutes without the ball, and now he is who he is. Gordon can early minutes through his defense as well.
I don't hate Vonleh, I'm just expressing some concerns. I'm looking for something to use between two prospects who are very close. I could be completely off. He might be fine, I just don't know it as fact. It could go either way.
>This is not about drummond here. This is the opportunity to pick a talented kid who has a wide skill set.
Vonleh/Randle is an interesting choice. I think I would lean toward Randle, who may be getting a little underrated at this point. I'm fairly certain Randle will be a decent-to-good player. Vonleh could be better, but he could go the other way and bust. I see low bust potential with Randle.
>No offense but all players have bust potential. What makes Randle a lower risk than Vonleh?
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The Kings wouldn't lean on Vonleh for points, but his offense is what will earn him minutes. If he's not performing on offense, then whoever he's competing with for minutes (thinking Reggie Evans) will get those minutes over Vonleh. Then you have your first round pick who's not playing, etc. It wouldn't put him in a great spot. And I don't know that he can shoot an NBA 3 right now. He shot a good percentage in college with very few attempts. Derrick Williams and Anthony Bennett also shot well in college.
Jabari Parker is on a different level, and unlike Vonleh, who I question his ability to contribute right away in any capacity, I don't have that concern with Parker. He'll be able to score and perform on offense from day 1.
Of course all players can bust, but in my opinion Randle showed more this season in terms of readiness. I watched that guy play and I could see where he'd find his offense, his rebounding, his impact on the game. With Vonleh, who I admittedly didn't see as much, I question weather it will come as easy to him as it will to Randle. This is, of course, an opinion.
I am picking nits with Vonleh. If he's there at #8 I'd take him, because that likely means Gordon, Randle, and Smart are gone. I wouldn't be upset with the pick, but if he doesn't pan out I think the reasons I mentioned will be why.
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Agree. Watching Randle he's definitely more NBA ready than Vonleh. A lot less bust potential. He has the potential of putting up Zach Randolph type numbers. High pts high rbds with low block shot numbers.
Vonleh scares me because he is so athletic with a large wingspan but he can't block shots at a high level. Wondering if he will be a Mikki Moore (only talking statwise and not style of game) with like 10ppg and 5rpg and a block while defending adequately.
Agree. Watching Randle he's definitely more NBA ready than Vonleh. A lot less bust potential. He has the potential of putting up Zach Randolph type numbers. High pts high rbds with low block shot numbers.
Vonleh scares me because he is so athletic with a large wingspan but he can't block shots at a high level. Wondering if he will be a Mikki Moore (only talking statwise and not style of game) with like 10ppg and 5rpg and a block while defending adequately.