ESPN Interview: Cousins Neither Desires Nor Expects to Be Traded
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Cousins, you're a beaut.
Cousins loyalty seems to be his way of being different, being himself. And, since I'm the smartest person in the world, I understand that this is a major way he gains satisfaction: doing things his way. I've said this many times: Cousins is a HIGHLY principled person. If you get that, a lot of him begins to make more sense. Part of his principles is a strong streak of individuality. Jumping ship would not sit well with him and would eat at him the rest of his career, and I think he knows that. Some guys are just built like that. I don't think Cousins wants to win a championship unless he does it 1. the right way and 2. his way. Leaving the Kings for greener pastures violates both of those principles.
The only thing that would justify leaving in his mind are repeated, deliberate attempts by management to sabotage the team. That was happening before, but Cousins stuck it out because he knew there were people trying to save the team, and also he was still finding his way in the league, he wasn't fully established. Now there is good management, acting in good faith, with good communication, with a good coach. Remarkable how little it took to see him happy. We're not even winning, and listen to his tone. He's content. Pissed we're not winning, but content. Ironically, under these conditions, I think we're going to see a remarkably patient Cousins.
I put the chances of him leaving at exactly zero, unless of course something drastic happens at the top but I don't see that happening now.
Cousins loyalty seems to be his way of being different, being himself. And, since I'm the smartest person in the world, I understand that this is a major way he gains satisfaction: doing things his way. I've said this many times: Cousins is a HIGHLY principled person. If you get that, a lot of him begins to make more sense. Part of his principles is a strong streak of individuality. Jumping ship would not sit well with him and would eat at him the rest of his career, and I think he knows that. Some guys are just built like that. I don't think Cousins wants to win a championship unless he does it 1. the right way and 2. his way. Leaving the Kings for greener pastures violates both of those principles.
The only thing that would justify leaving in his mind are repeated, deliberate attempts by management to sabotage the team. That was happening before, but Cousins stuck it out because he knew there were people trying to save the team, and also he was still finding his way in the league, he wasn't fully established. Now there is good management, acting in good faith, with good communication, with a good coach. Remarkable how little it took to see him happy. We're not even winning, and listen to his tone. He's content. Pissed we're not winning, but content. Ironically, under these conditions, I think we're going to see a remarkably patient Cousins.
I put the chances of him leaving at exactly zero, unless of course something drastic happens at the top but I don't see that happening now.
Good on you Hammer. You're finding hope for this team through all the darkness. I'd like to believe this is all true. Seems reasonable enough. I'd also like to see the Kings eventually live up to their end of this arrangement and reward DeMarcus for all his loyalty with a team that can do some real damage.
I believe we are on the right path....and I'm going to give this version of the FO of Vlade and Catanella (can't discount him) and this coach, who I believe is going to establish and maintain a working culture, and then I keeping fingers crossed on the developing players. Drafting is an inexact science unless you are at the top of the draft where your percentages increase. I am a patient dude.
K
I don't know how anyone can say Cousins "can't win here". or "Cousins has failed" because he has never won 40 games in a season or been to the playoffs. Cousins had some challenges, which the Kings put up with, but he has played on some of the crappiest rosters in the league since coming here. Nobody could win with that roster - not Shaq, not Kobe, etc. I would love to see him on a team with some talent around him.
The Kings have failed Cousins over and over by telling him they would land talent. Excuses after excuses from one ownership group to another and one GM to another. Failed drafts, failed signings, failed trades. Cousins has been loyal and the FO continues to screw up. This is my frustration with drafting this past draft class. Cousins is 26 and in his prime, and instead of trying to figure out something we draft a bunch of projects and clearly, our star player wasn't happy about it via Twitter. I don't blame him for leaving after next year, if he chooses do that. He deserves better than the Maloofs, Peterie, Vivek, PDA, and Vlade.
The Kings have failed Cousins over and over by telling him they would land talent. Excuses after excuses from one ownership group to another and one GM to another. Failed drafts, failed signings, failed trades. Cousins has been loyal and the FO continues to screw up. This is my frustration with drafting this past draft class. Cousins is 26 and in his prime, and instead of trying to figure out something we draft a bunch of projects and clearly, our star player wasn't happy about it via Twitter. I don't blame him for leaving after next year, if he chooses do that. He deserves better than the Maloofs, Peterie, Vivek, PDA, and Vlade.
Who could the Kings have taken at #8 in the last draft that would have been a difference maker?
What free agent could they have signed?
What trade could they have made?
Vlade inherited a mess and I don't think he's made it worse. In many ways he's slightly improved things - coach who is on the same page as the players and front office and signed long term, cleaner cap sheet, four young players to develop with Bogdanovic possibly coming over next season, etc.
I woildnlike to know if Vlade was given completely free rein to do what he wanted or asked by Vivek to win now. Because to me the clear move now is to rebuild and I have to wonder if (a) Vlade recognizes that and (b) if he's allowed to take that course of action.
What free agent could they have signed?
What trade could they have made?
Vlade inherited a mess and I don't think he's made it worse. In many ways he's slightly improved things - coach who is on the same page as the players and front office and signed long term, cleaner cap sheet, four young players to develop with Bogdanovic possibly coming over next season, etc.
I woildnlike to know if Vlade was given completely free rein to do what he wanted or asked by Vivek to win now. Because to me the clear move now is to rebuild and I have to wonder if (a) Vlade recognizes that and (b) if he's allowed to take that course of action.
K
First off, I am defending Cousins. Cousins is a great player who could win with talent around him.
Draft question ---Chriss, Sabonis etc. It will be a miracle if Papa and Skal end up being starters in the NBA. We could have easily taken just Richardson and Chriss. Do you disagree with me Cousins was unhappy? Do you remember his tweet? Any of those guys I mentioned would be playing right now--not in Reno. URGENCY is the key word, we have an all-star center in his prime!
I don't have any clue on the free agents? But I am not paid money Vlade is paid to figure it out. It is his job to figure it out. If he cannot get players via FA he needs to figure it out via trades. Come on man, let's be real, this current roster is crap. There is no way Cousins could win with it.
I am with you, we need to rebuild but I don't want Vlade doing it. Hopefully Vivek figures that out.
Draft question ---Chriss, Sabonis etc. It will be a miracle if Papa and Skal end up being starters in the NBA. We could have easily taken just Richardson and Chriss. Do you disagree with me Cousins was unhappy? Do you remember his tweet? Any of those guys I mentioned would be playing right now--not in Reno. URGENCY is the key word, we have an all-star center in his prime!
I don't have any clue on the free agents? But I am not paid money Vlade is paid to figure it out. It is his job to figure it out. If he cannot get players via FA he needs to figure it out via trades. Come on man, let's be real, this current roster is crap. There is no way Cousins could win with it.
I am with you, we need to rebuild but I don't want Vlade doing it. Hopefully Vivek figures that out.
Sabonis might be starting though he's putting up 6 & 3 and rebounding at a lower rate than Willie. He's got range out to three (surprising that he's shooting better from three in the NBA than he did from the college 3pt line) but Cauley-Stein is a better and more versatile defender.
Chriss wouldn't start for any team that is actually trying to win games. Other than athleticism he hasn't shown me more than Skal and I firmly believe if he were on the Kings he'd be down in Reno too.
I hated Vlade's draft at the time too but in hindsight this has been a horrible draft class so far. If Simmons comes back and plays well the Sixers could realistically have the 3 best rookies in the NBA this season.
I don't know if Cousins was unhappy. I saw his tweet and I also heard him say it wasn't about the draft. But whether or not he was happy on draft night doesn't mean anything. Melo was critical of the Porzingis draft and the media hammered Phil Jackson and the Knicks for it, Stephen A Smith in particular. And now? I don't know how many of those rookies will turn out but how anyone feels on draft night or whatever stupid "draft grades" are handed out the next day don't matter. All that matters is the results and right now it's too early to tell.
And that's the thing. As it looks now there were no impact draft picks at 8 or later. Maybe a guy or two will emerge as good to great players but they are big difference makers in year one. At least not so far.
Even in the best Kings years impact free agents didn't sign in Sacramento. And Vlade can make trades but if we all recognize that "the roster is crap" then who exactly is going to trade anything of value to the Kings for any of their players outside of Cousins?
My point is that people are hammering Vlade for this roster but what did he start with? Hard to say with certainty that he's doing a poor job right now. And therefore also pretty hard to argue that Vlade shouldn't be allowed to guide a rebuild effort.
Chriss wouldn't start for any team that is actually trying to win games. Other than athleticism he hasn't shown me more than Skal and I firmly believe if he were on the Kings he'd be down in Reno too.
I hated Vlade's draft at the time too but in hindsight this has been a horrible draft class so far. If Simmons comes back and plays well the Sixers could realistically have the 3 best rookies in the NBA this season.
I don't know if Cousins was unhappy. I saw his tweet and I also heard him say it wasn't about the draft. But whether or not he was happy on draft night doesn't mean anything. Melo was critical of the Porzingis draft and the media hammered Phil Jackson and the Knicks for it, Stephen A Smith in particular. And now? I don't know how many of those rookies will turn out but how anyone feels on draft night or whatever stupid "draft grades" are handed out the next day don't matter. All that matters is the results and right now it's too early to tell.
And that's the thing. As it looks now there were no impact draft picks at 8 or later. Maybe a guy or two will emerge as good to great players but they are big difference makers in year one. At least not so far.
Even in the best Kings years impact free agents didn't sign in Sacramento. And Vlade can make trades but if we all recognize that "the roster is crap" then who exactly is going to trade anything of value to the Kings for any of their players outside of Cousins?
My point is that people are hammering Vlade for this roster but what did he start with? Hard to say with certainty that he's doing a poor job right now. And therefore also pretty hard to argue that Vlade shouldn't be allowed to guide a rebuild effort.
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K
I gave Vlade a fair shot when he got the job. I went into with an open mind, ok this guy has no experience whatsoever, literally his only NBA admin experience was a scout like ten years ago, but at the time PDA and the FO was a mess. But in hindsight, if he does well and works out it is a win-win right? Former player, etc.
His first ever task was the 2015 NBA Draft. Several solid players on the board and he takes WCS. As I have mentioned 1000 times, I am a huge UK fan, have tons of friends who are UK fans as well, when we drafted WCS they all called me laughing because they knew it was a mistake as well. You have to understand, some UK fans worship basketball, they listen to the pre-game shows, watch every game to detail, and then break it down after. EVERYONE knew WCS was not going to be a good pro player. How does a GM, making loads of money not see that??? WCS was a role player at UK, he didn't make plays, he benefited from many solid draft classes and players whom played for Calipari. It kills me that at the time we all knew this was a mistake and now two years later it looks like I was right. I didn't want to be right! But it was so obvious there were better players on the board. Strike 1
2015 Free Agency Period. We made the trade with the 76ers and I was thinking ok we are shaking some stuff up. Then we signed Kosta, Marco and Rondo but gave up a draft pick. At the time it was a reasonable move because I like Rondo, but from what we know now the entire deal was a bust. Marco did horrible, leaves here, and now is a good player with the Hornets? No clue how that happens. Kosta is Kosta and Rondo had a decent season but is gone. Due to the landing of Rondo, I didn't give a strike.
2016 NBA Draft - All I can say is I about broke my television. Every NBA fan on the planet, who I know, got their laughs in during this one. You take Chriss at 8 or if you trade back you land a current player, aka Knight or Bledsoe, or you DO NOT do the deal. Even assuming you do make the deal and get Bogdanovic, you take Baldwin at 13 no questions asked. It was too OBVIOUS! Any person sitting at home could have told you that, which is scary. Richardson could turn out to be a good player but we will see. Skal, well as a UK Fan, Skal is Skal. I do hope Skal works out but I can tell you Skal is the worst recruit to play for Calipari at UK. Cal did play him out of position so I hope in time he will work out. Strike 2
2016 NBA Free Agency Period - Complete failure. Temple is the only solid pick-up. Barnes sucks and is trouble, Tolliver - Garbage, Affalo - Garbage, Lawson is ok. How much money is that? Tied up in crap players? We have a 26 year old center in his prime, so our answer is to trade Bellini, let Rondo walk and replace them with Tolliver, Barnes and Affalo?? Yeah that is upgrading the roster. Strike 3
Three strikes you are out!!!! This is why I am no longer a Vlade supporter.
Only one trade, we won, has been made in two years. Bellini for 23rd pick. Which at the time we won, but now it looks more and more like it could be a wash. Time will tell.
The sports world, from a fan perspective, is what have you done for me lately. College football coaches get fired after 3 years for not making a bowl, the whole give me 6 years to build something plan doesn't fly. 50% of teams in college football make a bowl game just like 50% of teams make the NBA playoffs. If the Kings are going to put this horrible product on the court now and it looks like for years to come, they need to do the right thing and trade Cousins. As I said, they have failed him over and over, from one Management group to the next. And also lower their season ticket prices because it isn't worth it.
His first ever task was the 2015 NBA Draft. Several solid players on the board and he takes WCS. As I have mentioned 1000 times, I am a huge UK fan, have tons of friends who are UK fans as well, when we drafted WCS they all called me laughing because they knew it was a mistake as well. You have to understand, some UK fans worship basketball, they listen to the pre-game shows, watch every game to detail, and then break it down after. EVERYONE knew WCS was not going to be a good pro player. How does a GM, making loads of money not see that??? WCS was a role player at UK, he didn't make plays, he benefited from many solid draft classes and players whom played for Calipari. It kills me that at the time we all knew this was a mistake and now two years later it looks like I was right. I didn't want to be right! But it was so obvious there were better players on the board. Strike 1
2015 Free Agency Period. We made the trade with the 76ers and I was thinking ok we are shaking some stuff up. Then we signed Kosta, Marco and Rondo but gave up a draft pick. At the time it was a reasonable move because I like Rondo, but from what we know now the entire deal was a bust. Marco did horrible, leaves here, and now is a good player with the Hornets? No clue how that happens. Kosta is Kosta and Rondo had a decent season but is gone. Due to the landing of Rondo, I didn't give a strike.
2016 NBA Draft - All I can say is I about broke my television. Every NBA fan on the planet, who I know, got their laughs in during this one. You take Chriss at 8 or if you trade back you land a current player, aka Knight or Bledsoe, or you DO NOT do the deal. Even assuming you do make the deal and get Bogdanovic, you take Baldwin at 13 no questions asked. It was too OBVIOUS! Any person sitting at home could have told you that, which is scary. Richardson could turn out to be a good player but we will see. Skal, well as a UK Fan, Skal is Skal. I do hope Skal works out but I can tell you Skal is the worst recruit to play for Calipari at UK. Cal did play him out of position so I hope in time he will work out. Strike 2
2016 NBA Free Agency Period - Complete failure. Temple is the only solid pick-up. Barnes sucks and is trouble, Tolliver - Garbage, Affalo - Garbage, Lawson is ok. How much money is that? Tied up in crap players? We have a 26 year old center in his prime, so our answer is to trade Bellini, let Rondo walk and replace them with Tolliver, Barnes and Affalo?? Yeah that is upgrading the roster. Strike 3
Three strikes you are out!!!! This is why I am no longer a Vlade supporter.
Only one trade, we won, has been made in two years. Bellini for 23rd pick. Which at the time we won, but now it looks more and more like it could be a wash. Time will tell.
The sports world, from a fan perspective, is what have you done for me lately. College football coaches get fired after 3 years for not making a bowl, the whole give me 6 years to build something plan doesn't fly. 50% of teams in college football make a bowl game just like 50% of teams make the NBA playoffs. If the Kings are going to put this horrible product on the court now and it looks like for years to come, they need to do the right thing and trade Cousins. As I said, they have failed him over and over, from one Management group to the next. And also lower their season ticket prices because it isn't worth it.
Who did you expect the Kings to sign in free agency?
Who is the best free agent that has ever been signed by the Sacramento Kings?
And you think passing on Marquese Chriss and Wade Baldwin is a major strike against Vlade? I was bearish on Chriss but talked myself into him
because I figured either he or Brown would be the consensus player left at 8. I was high on Baldwin.
But neither guy is doing anything to help their teams or showing real promise right now. Wade Baldwin was set to get a bump in minutes when Conley went down. But not only has Andrew Harrison got the bulk of the minutes ahead of him, but newly signed Toney Douglas is now ahead of him on the draft chart. Toney Douglas. Meanwhile Baldwin is shooting 31% from the field and 11% from three.
Marquese Chriss currently isn't better than Cauley-Stein in any statistical category. WCS is an anemic rebounder. Chriss is worse. He averages nearly 7 fouls per 36 and while he starts for the Suns he only averages 15 mpg, often due to foul trouble and ineffective play. Advanced metrics aren't kind to him either. He's very young and very athletic so there's still the hope that he turns into something, but really if you're in favor of firing Vlade for not drafting Chriss and getting three players instead I'm not sure what to say to that.
Because this year's draft may turn out to be a huge blunder, but it's way too early for anyone to claim that for certain, especially when this rookie class has been dreadful so far. If Chriss was putting up 12 & 8 or Baldwin was starting in place of Conley and leading the Grizzlies to wins then I could see your point. But right now Chriss looks like a rookie Tyrus Thomas but with half the blocks, 2/3 the rebounds and a lower shooting percentage.
I've noticed that you seem infatuated with Mudiay and Chriss when they've both been absolutely awful players so far and yet you hammer Vlade for not taking them.
The reality is that right now is that (for all the criticism you have for him) Cauley-Stein has a higher PER than Chriss, Baldwin or Mudiay as well as higher Offensive Win Shares, higher Defensive Win Shares and all with a lower usage rate.
The Kings are still a mess and Vlade has to take some criticism for that but I'm not sure you're really being as objective as you think you are.
Who is the best free agent that has ever been signed by the Sacramento Kings?
And you think passing on Marquese Chriss and Wade Baldwin is a major strike against Vlade? I was bearish on Chriss but talked myself into him
because I figured either he or Brown would be the consensus player left at 8. I was high on Baldwin.
But neither guy is doing anything to help their teams or showing real promise right now. Wade Baldwin was set to get a bump in minutes when Conley went down. But not only has Andrew Harrison got the bulk of the minutes ahead of him, but newly signed Toney Douglas is now ahead of him on the draft chart. Toney Douglas. Meanwhile Baldwin is shooting 31% from the field and 11% from three.
Marquese Chriss currently isn't better than Cauley-Stein in any statistical category. WCS is an anemic rebounder. Chriss is worse. He averages nearly 7 fouls per 36 and while he starts for the Suns he only averages 15 mpg, often due to foul trouble and ineffective play. Advanced metrics aren't kind to him either. He's very young and very athletic so there's still the hope that he turns into something, but really if you're in favor of firing Vlade for not drafting Chriss and getting three players instead I'm not sure what to say to that.
Because this year's draft may turn out to be a huge blunder, but it's way too early for anyone to claim that for certain, especially when this rookie class has been dreadful so far. If Chriss was putting up 12 & 8 or Baldwin was starting in place of Conley and leading the Grizzlies to wins then I could see your point. But right now Chriss looks like a rookie Tyrus Thomas but with half the blocks, 2/3 the rebounds and a lower shooting percentage.
I've noticed that you seem infatuated with Mudiay and Chriss when they've both been absolutely awful players so far and yet you hammer Vlade for not taking them.
The reality is that right now is that (for all the criticism you have for him) Cauley-Stein has a higher PER than Chriss, Baldwin or Mudiay as well as higher Offensive Win Shares, higher Defensive Win Shares and all with a lower usage rate.
The Kings are still a mess and Vlade has to take some criticism for that but I'm not sure you're really being as objective as you think you are.
K
Chriss and Mudiay are 19 and going to develop. WCS is 23 and was supposed to be "NBA ready". That age gap in the NBA is huge and you know that. I would rather see a 19 year old PF out there playing than our current situation. We are losing left and right and our rookies are still up in Reno?? We aren't any better than the Suns but their young talent evidently is better than ours. Do you realize how crappy D-League talent is? Scoring 20 points in a D-League game isn't anything. I saw the Kings page bragging that Papa blocked four shots in a D-League game, give me a break. Chriss is at least getting some stats in an NBA game and he is home grown talent from Sac!
I'll agree to disagree. It takes all types of fans to complete a fan base. In time I could be wrong about not taking Chriss and Mudiay or Booker or Turner, but as of right now I have seen NOTHING to make me think that. I support Joerger, I support Cousins but I DOT NOT support Vlade.
I'll agree to disagree. It takes all types of fans to complete a fan base. In time I could be wrong about not taking Chriss and Mudiay or Booker or Turner, but as of right now I have seen NOTHING to make me think that. I support Joerger, I support Cousins but I DOT NOT support Vlade.
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While you may feel this way, Vlade is here to stay IMO. We desperately need some stability in the front office and from a head coach. Let these two work together for the next couple of years and see what they can do before we bring out our pitchforks and call for his head. While you, and many on here don't want to hear it, we are inquired to have patience because building a winner in the NBA is very difficult, especially for Sacramento.
So you're assuming that Mudiay and Chriss will definitely go from poor NBA players to great ones as a reason to criticize Vlade while assuming that Labissiere and Papagiannis will always be awful even though they are the same age or younger?
The Nuggets are as bad a team as the Kings and the Suns are worse. Would you prefer that the Kings start Skal and let him put up 6 ppg and 3 rpg? Because I'm guessing he could put up similar stats to Chriss.
The Kings suck. They've sucked for a long time. And that's frustrating. But your reasons for wanting Vlade fired aren't rational IMO.
And as for the free agency money "tied up in crap players", Lawson is on a one year, minimum deal, Tolliver's contract is unguaranteed for next season and the Kings can part ways with Affalo while only being on the hook for $2.5 million of his salary. Only Temple is signed long term with two more seasons after this one.
That means that if desired the Kings can open up around $50 million in caproom this summer.
That was all intentional. Divac tried to build around Cousins on the fly, bringing in tough veterans and (in the case of Temple and Tolliver) good locker room guys to try and change the culture. Even Barnes has widely been regarded as a good teammate by almost everyone who has played with him regardless of his off court trouble or thuggish inclinations. But if things didn't work out Vlade also had the ability to blow things up without being hamstrung by bad contracts.
It's also why the rookies are in Reno. If the goal is to try and win now, those guys don't belong on the court. And if it comes to plan B of blowing up the team, you want those three to be getting as much experience as possible. Something that right now they'll get in Reno but not in Sacramento.
This season looks like yet another wasted year for the Kings. But in my mind Vlade has been doing his best to work at two different goals - building on the fly and preparing to retool if necessary. Given the situation he's in and the pieces he's had to work with I think he's earned more time at the helm.
I do still hate the Philadelphia deal. I understood the rationale and I'm guessing from day 1 Vivek was putting pressure on him to turn things around quickly but I always hate deals that give away or put restrictions on future 1st rounders unless you're getting a superstar in return or are a perennial contender who doesn't need another late first round pick.
But I'll begrudging forgive that bad move for now and wait to see a clearer picture of what Vlade does as GM before passing judgement on the job he's done.
The Nuggets are as bad a team as the Kings and the Suns are worse. Would you prefer that the Kings start Skal and let him put up 6 ppg and 3 rpg? Because I'm guessing he could put up similar stats to Chriss.
The Kings suck. They've sucked for a long time. And that's frustrating. But your reasons for wanting Vlade fired aren't rational IMO.
And as for the free agency money "tied up in crap players", Lawson is on a one year, minimum deal, Tolliver's contract is unguaranteed for next season and the Kings can part ways with Affalo while only being on the hook for $2.5 million of his salary. Only Temple is signed long term with two more seasons after this one.
That means that if desired the Kings can open up around $50 million in caproom this summer.
That was all intentional. Divac tried to build around Cousins on the fly, bringing in tough veterans and (in the case of Temple and Tolliver) good locker room guys to try and change the culture. Even Barnes has widely been regarded as a good teammate by almost everyone who has played with him regardless of his off court trouble or thuggish inclinations. But if things didn't work out Vlade also had the ability to blow things up without being hamstrung by bad contracts.
It's also why the rookies are in Reno. If the goal is to try and win now, those guys don't belong on the court. And if it comes to plan B of blowing up the team, you want those three to be getting as much experience as possible. Something that right now they'll get in Reno but not in Sacramento.
This season looks like yet another wasted year for the Kings. But in my mind Vlade has been doing his best to work at two different goals - building on the fly and preparing to retool if necessary. Given the situation he's in and the pieces he's had to work with I think he's earned more time at the helm.
I do still hate the Philadelphia deal. I understood the rationale and I'm guessing from day 1 Vivek was putting pressure on him to turn things around quickly but I always hate deals that give away or put restrictions on future 1st rounders unless you're getting a superstar in return or are a perennial contender who doesn't need another late first round pick.
But I'll begrudging forgive that bad move for now and wait to see a clearer picture of what Vlade does as GM before passing judgement on the job he's done.
K
My original post was saying this franchise has failed Cousins over and over. I stand by that point, from the Maloofs to current.
Also, I am not understanding the mess he inherited. If you haven't noticed, coaches and players careers seem to go downhill when they come to the Kings. He inherited a HOF head coach, who for whatever reason didn't work out but Karl had 20 some years of consecutive winning seasons until he got here! The roster is no better now than when he took over. Collison, Casspi, Gay, McLemore, and Cousins are all holdovers from PDA and still on the team. And ironically, Collison, Gay and Cousins are the best three players on our current team, all acquired by PDA/Maloofs via free agency, trade and draft as since then we have not been able to find any better players than those three.
Reggie Evans = Tolliver
Ryan Hollins = Papa
Carl Landry = Kosta
Nik = Richardson
Jason Thompson > WCS - At this point compared to where Jason was in 2014-15
How has the roster gotten better? And how was this mess any different than 2016-17? For three years we have been in a hamster wheel?
2014-15 Roster
F
18 Casspi, Omri 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m) 225 lb (102 kg) 1988–06–22 Israel
G 7 Collison, Darren 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) 175 lb (79 kg) 1987–08–23 UCLA
C 15 Cousins, DeMarcus (C) 6 ft 11 in (2.11 m) 270 lb (122 kg) 1990–08–13 Kentucky
F 30 Evans, Reggie 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 245 lb (111 kg) 1980–05–18 Iowa
F 8 Gay, Rudy 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 230 lb (104 kg) 1986–08–17 Connecticut
C 5 Hollins, Ryan 7 ft 0 in (2.13 m) 240 lb (109 kg) 1984–10–10 UCLA
F 24 Landry, Carl 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m) 248 lb (112 kg) 1983–09–19 Purdue
G 3 McCallum, Ray 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) 190 lb (86 kg) 1991–06–12 Detroit
G 23 McLemore, Ben 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m) 195 lb (88 kg) 1993–02–11 Kansas
G 22 Miller, Andre 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) 200 lb (91 kg) 1976–03–19 Utah
F/C 25 Moreland, Eric 6 ft 10 in (2.08 m) 218 lb (99 kg) 1991–12–24 Oregon State
G 10 Stauskas, Nik 6 ft 6 in (1.98 m) 207 lb (94 kg) 1993–10–07 Michigan
G 9 Stockton, David 5 ft 11 in (1.80 m) 165 lb (75 kg) 1991–06–24 Gonzaga
F/C 34 Thompson, Jason 6 ft 11 in (2.11 m) 250 lb (113 kg) 1986–07–21 Rider
F 13 Williams, Derrick 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 240 lb (109 kg) 1991–05–25 Arizona
Also, I am not understanding the mess he inherited. If you haven't noticed, coaches and players careers seem to go downhill when they come to the Kings. He inherited a HOF head coach, who for whatever reason didn't work out but Karl had 20 some years of consecutive winning seasons until he got here! The roster is no better now than when he took over. Collison, Casspi, Gay, McLemore, and Cousins are all holdovers from PDA and still on the team. And ironically, Collison, Gay and Cousins are the best three players on our current team, all acquired by PDA/Maloofs via free agency, trade and draft as since then we have not been able to find any better players than those three.
Reggie Evans = Tolliver
Ryan Hollins = Papa
Carl Landry = Kosta
Nik = Richardson
Jason Thompson > WCS - At this point compared to where Jason was in 2014-15
How has the roster gotten better? And how was this mess any different than 2016-17? For three years we have been in a hamster wheel?
2014-15 Roster
F
18 Casspi, Omri 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m) 225 lb (102 kg) 1988–06–22 Israel
G 7 Collison, Darren 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) 175 lb (79 kg) 1987–08–23 UCLA
C 15 Cousins, DeMarcus (C) 6 ft 11 in (2.11 m) 270 lb (122 kg) 1990–08–13 Kentucky
F 30 Evans, Reggie 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 245 lb (111 kg) 1980–05–18 Iowa
F 8 Gay, Rudy 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 230 lb (104 kg) 1986–08–17 Connecticut
C 5 Hollins, Ryan 7 ft 0 in (2.13 m) 240 lb (109 kg) 1984–10–10 UCLA
F 24 Landry, Carl 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m) 248 lb (112 kg) 1983–09–19 Purdue
G 3 McCallum, Ray 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) 190 lb (86 kg) 1991–06–12 Detroit
G 23 McLemore, Ben 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m) 195 lb (88 kg) 1993–02–11 Kansas
G 22 Miller, Andre 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) 200 lb (91 kg) 1976–03–19 Utah
F/C 25 Moreland, Eric 6 ft 10 in (2.08 m) 218 lb (99 kg) 1991–12–24 Oregon State
G 10 Stauskas, Nik 6 ft 6 in (1.98 m) 207 lb (94 kg) 1993–10–07 Michigan
G 9 Stockton, David 5 ft 11 in (1.80 m) 165 lb (75 kg) 1991–06–24 Gonzaga
F/C 34 Thompson, Jason 6 ft 11 in (2.11 m) 250 lb (113 kg) 1986–07–21 Rider
F 13 Williams, Derrick 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 240 lb (109 kg) 1991–05–25 Arizona
Maybe, but I don't see Vlade as that prideful that he'd compound one bad move with other bad moves just to try and deflect blame for the first poor decision.
It's also why I think the move to trade Cousins and rebuild needs to happen now. Two seasons of the Kings tanking for picks and whatever picks they get for Cousins before they have to give that first rounder to Philly.
Meanwhile they can use their caproom to take on other team's bad contracts in exchange for picks and/or young players (be on the other side of deals like the Stauskas, Thompson, Landry trade) to stock up on assets further.
DeMarcus may not expect to be traded and it will be a sad day for me if and when he is, but from a cold, analytical perspective that's likely the only good path forward unless Divac & co have something really clever up their collective sleeve.
For me it will be after this next offseason that I'll have formed a real picture of Vlade Divac as a GM and either be happy with his moves or be calling for his head.
We'll see.
It's also why I think the move to trade Cousins and rebuild needs to happen now. Two seasons of the Kings tanking for picks and whatever picks they get for Cousins before they have to give that first rounder to Philly.
Meanwhile they can use their caproom to take on other team's bad contracts in exchange for picks and/or young players (be on the other side of deals like the Stauskas, Thompson, Landry trade) to stock up on assets further.
DeMarcus may not expect to be traded and it will be a sad day for me if and when he is, but from a cold, analytical perspective that's likely the only good path forward unless Divac & co have something really clever up their collective sleeve.
For me it will be after this next offseason that I'll have formed a real picture of Vlade Divac as a GM and either be happy with his moves or be calling for his head.
We'll see.
And you're proving my point. You're applying the frustration of the last ten years to what Divac has done the last two. Has he dramatically turned the team around? Nope. Has he done a poor enough job to deserve to be fired? Nope.
This is a Kings team that has cycled through coaches almost every year while overhauling the roster almost every season as well. Stability is something this franchise badly needs. It's a big part of why I'm much more patient with Vlade than you are.
This is a Kings team that has cycled through coaches almost every year while overhauling the roster almost every season as well. Stability is something this franchise badly needs. It's a big part of why I'm much more patient with Vlade than you are.
K
But to the original question, if the new regime was committed to providing Cousins a winning environment, why draft Papa and then bring in the garbage FAs? I would have rather seen the Kings trade the number 8 pick for a current NBA player, who can play NOW, than draft Papa. The answer is Vlade took Papa because he is preparing for a Cousins exit, if it happens, which is a crap strategy. That is why I said they have failed Cousins over and over, he is 26 and not getting any younger
Wait what? A vested interest to dictate the teams future based on what you perceive as saving facing for a move that may make him look bad? Seriously?
Whether Vlade ends up looking like a good,great or bad GM by the end of his tenure, he took this job to make the Kings a success. He is not worried about his resume' as GM for future employment. There isn't any tin foil hat worthy conspiracy at work behind his moves. He is doing what he thinks is in the teams best interest, most likely with some pressure in some form from Vivek/ownership that he gets to balance with his own vision.
Whether Vlade ends up looking like a good,great or bad GM by the end of his tenure, he took this job to make the Kings a success. He is not worried about his resume' as GM for future employment. There isn't any tin foil hat worthy conspiracy at work behind his moves. He is doing what he thinks is in the teams best interest, most likely with some pressure in some form from Vivek/ownership that he gets to balance with his own vision.
Hard to say.
Maybe Vlade doesn't know what he's doing and grabbed an international center because he feels most comfortable with that move.
Or maybe he really believes Papa was the best pick with the most long term potential. I don't see it now, but he could be right.
Or maybe Joerger always saw Boogie as a PF and wants a big, physical and fairly mobile center next to him. It would explain his stubbornness with Koufos as a starter.
Maybe Divac envisioned Papa and Boogie as a new version of himself and CWebb.
Maybe all of the above. Maybe none.
I wish I knew what veterans were available in trade for the 8th and pick. If the Suns made Knight or Bledsoe available I'd be surprised and upset that it didn't happen. I doubt that they did.
The 8th pick in a weak draft doesn't generally buy much on the trade market. Vlade traded Belinelli for #22 after all.
For better or worse the draft will always be the best (and maybe only) avenue for the Sacramento Kings to build a winner. Trading picks for more mediocre vets isn't going to break the cycle. Only nailing draft picks really will. Did Vlade do that? I don't have any idea. I hated the first two picks on draft night but again, all that matters is what those players ultimately become.
We'll see.
Maybe Vlade doesn't know what he's doing and grabbed an international center because he feels most comfortable with that move.
Or maybe he really believes Papa was the best pick with the most long term potential. I don't see it now, but he could be right.
Or maybe Joerger always saw Boogie as a PF and wants a big, physical and fairly mobile center next to him. It would explain his stubbornness with Koufos as a starter.
Maybe Divac envisioned Papa and Boogie as a new version of himself and CWebb.
Maybe all of the above. Maybe none.
I wish I knew what veterans were available in trade for the 8th and pick. If the Suns made Knight or Bledsoe available I'd be surprised and upset that it didn't happen. I doubt that they did.
The 8th pick in a weak draft doesn't generally buy much on the trade market. Vlade traded Belinelli for #22 after all.
For better or worse the draft will always be the best (and maybe only) avenue for the Sacramento Kings to build a winner. Trading picks for more mediocre vets isn't going to break the cycle. Only nailing draft picks really will. Did Vlade do that? I don't have any idea. I hated the first two picks on draft night but again, all that matters is what those players ultimately become.
We'll see.
This is an interesting question. The Hawks effectively traded Jeff Teague for the 12th pick. Putting the actual draftees aside, would you rather have had Teague (on an expiring deal) than Bogdanovic and the 13th and 28th picks? If you are going all-in with a win-now plan, maybe. But as has been discussed here, Vlade really seems to be hedging, using the draft to pick up a few more kids since he already leveraged future picks with the Philly trade, but then using free agency for win-now vets. It's an interesting strategy, but trying to do both may very well mean succeeding at neither.
Very true. I'm not a fan of a straddling the fence strategy but I understand it. Vlade and/or Vivek weren't ready to throw in the towel on building around Cousins but they also weren't really in a position to mortgage any more future assets to do it.
Teague is a slight upgrade from Collison IMO. Better passer, better penetrator, slightly better defender but a significantly worse shooter. This year he's under 42% overall and under 30% from three. Lawson is shooting better from distance than that. If he were signed beyond this year I would think you'd have to look at that. And if in hindsight Papagiannis, Labissiere and Bogdanovic are all busts then a one year rental of Teague is a good bet. But I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on that trade. For Brandon Knight? Maybe. I'm not a fan of his game but he's a proven scorer at the PG spot that would help the team. In a package for Bledsoe? Absolutely.
But again, we don't know what was out there in trade for the 8th pick.
Personally I don't see a good path forward that doesn't involve trading Cousins and rebuilding so I'm glad they gambled on young guys.
Teague is a slight upgrade from Collison IMO. Better passer, better penetrator, slightly better defender but a significantly worse shooter. This year he's under 42% overall and under 30% from three. Lawson is shooting better from distance than that. If he were signed beyond this year I would think you'd have to look at that. And if in hindsight Papagiannis, Labissiere and Bogdanovic are all busts then a one year rental of Teague is a good bet. But I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on that trade. For Brandon Knight? Maybe. I'm not a fan of his game but he's a proven scorer at the PG spot that would help the team. In a package for Bledsoe? Absolutely.
But again, we don't know what was out there in trade for the 8th pick.
Personally I don't see a good path forward that doesn't involve trading Cousins and rebuilding so I'm glad they gambled on young guys.
K
They could have gotten something for the 8th pick, especially if the Pacers got Teague for the 12th. And I would rather have Teague than Papa and Skal and Bogdanovic all things considered. I want to see us win with Cousins. I find it very hard to believe the Suns wouldn't give up Brandon Knight for the 8th pick or maybe even Bledsoe. Rudy Gay and 8th for Bledsoe? In a heartbeat. I think Vlade is obsessed with international players and Suns offered accordingly. And I would be curious to know what exactly the Timberwolves wanted for the Dunn pick - I wish we knew
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