DeMarcus Cousins' Past Teammates
- Thread starter lwc
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It's sad looking at the lists of former teammates......but there is hope this year in the fact that the head coach and front office are going to implement schemes that fit our franchise player as opposed to the moronic schemes in the past. Defense using players with length, spot up 3 point shooters, one franchise player. Grit and Grind.
This is where you can totally agree that Cousins hasn't had a lot of talent around him, except Tyreke, IT, and Gay, and still not think it's going to work with an Cousins imbued with leadership, mental toughness and constancy of effort of a Tim Duncan, for the simple reason that it is it's doubtful much talent can be accumulated going forward. With a team that is going to be drafting at the low end of the lottery, is small market, and sullied in reputation, it's a tough road breaking out of mediocrity. Adding to the problem is the fact that it's pretty obvious it takes several years for the typical draftee to have much impact on the floor these days. So, if FA is not feasible, the trade option is dubious (unless you literally find an idiot GM to give you something for nothing), and the draft option yields long term projects, it's hard to see the path going forward.
what you've said about the kings' predicament is largely true; there are very few ways for them to close the talent gap as an undesirable small market franchise with a deeply damaged reputation and a decade of futility behind them. however, it's not hard to see the path going forward at all, in my opinion. vlade/catanella/joerger are clearly aware of the difficulties that this franchise faces in acquiring talent, so instead of overspending on mid-level players that likely won't move the needle for this team in the win/loss column, the kings have, interestingly enough, chosen to pursue an alternative strategy. they know that they can't sign top-tier free agents. they know that they have limited assets with which to engineer an impact trade. they know that the draft is basically a crapshoot if you're unlucky enough to fall outside of the top-3 (and even the top-3 in the 2016 draft are flawed talents with no guarantees of stardom). so what do the kings do in lieu of being able to draft/sign/trade for the kind of talent we might like to see in sacramento? they start building a team capable of playing hard and tough and with consistent effort.
just about every move the front office has made since the season ended has been in pursuit of a particular set of qualities: length, wingspan, defensive acumen, mental toughness, and solid veteran character. outside of darren collison, who must be considered the de facto starting PG until further moves are made, the kings have above-average length at every position, and that extends to much of their bench. and if coach joerger brings the same blue collar, hard-nosed style of play to sacramento that he doubled-down on in memphis, then there's little doubt in my mind that we'll see an improvement in the kings' overall effort and defensive performance, which then opens the door for a potential playoff berth. the offense may be a mess, and obviously any championship aspirations will have to wait. you simply can't get there in the contemporary nba without another all-star or two. but the western conference remains a top-heavy beast with a scrum for the bottom four or five seeds, and it's hardly out of the realm of possibility for a good young coach like dave joerger to coach this team up to an eighth seed. the kings have underachieved for years. maybe it was time to bring in a coach and assemble a roster that can overachieve.
so, if we're looking for a path going forward, it seems like the front office and coaching staff are already ahead of us. we could call their strategy the "make lemonade" approach; this franchise has been mired in a losing culture of incompetence, defeatism, and occasional self-sabotage for a long time now. it is, indeed, a very tough road to break out of mediocrity, and if you can't overcome the talent gap, then perhaps you can circumvent it altogether. teams like the grizzlies, mavericks, hornets, and celtics all find ways into the playoffs despite a lack of top shelf talent. and every season, i see kings fans clamoring for defense and effort. in fits of rage, many here at kf.com have called for the front office to "trade them all" in exchange for players who will give a damn. some like to claim that they'd rather root for a bunch of nobodies who give maximum effort than the product we've seen on the court in the last couple of seasons. well, here's your team of long, mentally tough, high effort defenders. let's see what dave joerger can do with them.
just about every move the front office has made since the season ended has been in pursuit of a particular set of qualities: length, wingspan, defensive acumen, mental toughness, and solid veteran character. outside of darren collison, who must be considered the de facto starting PG until further moves are made, the kings have above-average length at every position, and that extends to much of their bench. and if coach joerger brings the same blue collar, hard-nosed style of play to sacramento that he doubled-down on in memphis, then there's little doubt in my mind that we'll see an improvement in the kings' overall effort and defensive performance, which then opens the door for a potential playoff berth. the offense may be a mess, and obviously any championship aspirations will have to wait. you simply can't get there in the contemporary nba without another all-star or two. but the western conference remains a top-heavy beast with a scrum for the bottom four or five seeds, and it's hardly out of the realm of possibility for a good young coach like dave joerger to coach this team up to an eighth seed. the kings have underachieved for years. maybe it was time to bring in a coach and assemble a roster that can overachieve.
so, if we're looking for a path going forward, it seems like the front office and coaching staff are already ahead of us. we could call their strategy the "make lemonade" approach; this franchise has been mired in a losing culture of incompetence, defeatism, and occasional self-sabotage for a long time now. it is, indeed, a very tough road to break out of mediocrity, and if you can't overcome the talent gap, then perhaps you can circumvent it altogether. teams like the grizzlies, mavericks, hornets, and celtics all find ways into the playoffs despite a lack of top shelf talent. and every season, i see kings fans clamoring for defense and effort. in fits of rage, many here at kf.com have called for the front office to "trade them all" in exchange for players who will give a damn. some like to claim that they'd rather root for a bunch of nobodies who give maximum effort than the product we've seen on the court in the last couple of seasons. well, here's your team of long, mentally tough, high effort defenders. let's see what dave joerger can do with them.
The only constant on the Kings team for the last six years has been Cousins. Everyone else, the Owner, GM, Coach, and most of the players have changed on a regular basis, and that is the reason for the organizations ineptitude. Because Cousins has been the only remaining factor during that time, he makes a convenient whipping boy. I mean, if he had been traded 3 or 4 years ago, who would we be blaming? Or, if his name was Jason Thompson, would we be blaming him? No, and you know why, because he's not good enough to blame. We blame Cousins because he's a terrific basketball player, and as a result, we expect him to make the team great as well.
So if you think about it, were punishing Cousins because he's one of the best players in the NBA. I guess there's some logic hiding in there somewhere, but I'll be dammed if I can find it. If someone wants to say that Cousins isn't Lebron James, and he can't single handedly carry a team to a championship, fine! Who else can? If you want him to share some of the blame for the results we've had, that's fine as well. But can we lighten the load a little. There's plenty of blame to go around, and most of those responsible aren't here anymore.
It's not that Cousins hasn't had some talent around him, it's that it's been the wrong talent. And he's been coached by the wrong coaches except maybe one. I say maybe because we never got to find out, and I won't base a decision on a player after 11 or 12 games, so I won't do it on a coach either. But that's neither here nor there. The point is, there has never been a set goal or direction. And if there has been one, it's never lasted more than a year. It's always been one patch job after another, and that's not how you build a team or change a culture. What's amazing to me isn't that Cousins hasn't been able to do the heavy lifting by himself, but that he's still here, and that he wants to be here.
I like what Vlade has done so far. Every move he's made makes sense, except maybe one, and I won't go there right now. He's brought in tough defensive minded veterans to put around Cousins. Without another star on the team, that may not be enough to make more than a ripple, but it should be enough for improvement, and to change the culture of the team. And in doing so, he hasn't forfeited the future. We'll have a lot of capspace next offseason in a much better, and deeper freeagent market. Vlade is trying to do it the right way, and we need to give him the time to do it. And that's coming from a person that probably has less time left to wait. I stopped buying green banana's a while ago.
So if you think about it, were punishing Cousins because he's one of the best players in the NBA. I guess there's some logic hiding in there somewhere, but I'll be dammed if I can find it. If someone wants to say that Cousins isn't Lebron James, and he can't single handedly carry a team to a championship, fine! Who else can? If you want him to share some of the blame for the results we've had, that's fine as well. But can we lighten the load a little. There's plenty of blame to go around, and most of those responsible aren't here anymore.
It's not that Cousins hasn't had some talent around him, it's that it's been the wrong talent. And he's been coached by the wrong coaches except maybe one. I say maybe because we never got to find out, and I won't base a decision on a player after 11 or 12 games, so I won't do it on a coach either. But that's neither here nor there. The point is, there has never been a set goal or direction. And if there has been one, it's never lasted more than a year. It's always been one patch job after another, and that's not how you build a team or change a culture. What's amazing to me isn't that Cousins hasn't been able to do the heavy lifting by himself, but that he's still here, and that he wants to be here.
I like what Vlade has done so far. Every move he's made makes sense, except maybe one, and I won't go there right now. He's brought in tough defensive minded veterans to put around Cousins. Without another star on the team, that may not be enough to make more than a ripple, but it should be enough for improvement, and to change the culture of the team. And in doing so, he hasn't forfeited the future. We'll have a lot of capspace next offseason in a much better, and deeper freeagent market. Vlade is trying to do it the right way, and we need to give him the time to do it. And that's coming from a person that probably has less time left to wait. I stopped buying green banana's a while ago.
Rajon Rondo, Rudy Gay, Demarcus Cousins plus some nice role players like , Collison, Belinelli, Koufos, Caspi and a nice rookie in Stein. This team should have won. Instead they won a couple of extra games. Instead they tanked after the all star break. But poor Cousins doesn't get enough respect. Come on people. Cousins will get respect when he plays for the fans and the team. When he plays every night regardless of who else is on the court or who the coach is. Quit making excuses and blaming. Get to work. Appreciate what you do have and make the best of it.
Well, to be honest, the team tanking last year got them a switch of coaches from George Karl to Dave Joerger.
I'd say that was worth it, objectively speaking, and may well lead to a better overall team this year (unfortunately the gambit sacrificed Rondo, squandered Bellinelli, and probably cost Rudy, but we'll see...)
I'd say that was worth it, objectively speaking, and may well lead to a better overall team this year (unfortunately the gambit sacrificed Rondo, squandered Bellinelli, and probably cost Rudy, but we'll see...)
The sense I get from the above posts is that some are ok with fighting for the 8th slot in the playoffs for as far as the eye can see. The notion that the Kings are going to be "stuck" in the middle seems to have the left the room. The notion that the middle is a great place to be, given that it's a heckuvalot better than the cellar, has replaced it. Have Kings fans goals been modified to be happy with the middle - i.e. mediocrity? Is this a situation in which if you can't get what you want, be happy with what you have?
You are creating a false ultimatum, in my opinion. When you've missed the playoffs for a decade straight, making the eighth seed should be a goal in itself; that is not being "happy with the middle." Any given season, especially in the "modern" NBA, there are only 2-4 teams that have a "real" shot at the championship, and everybody else is either in the middle or the bottom; not wanting to be on the bottom is not settling for the middle; that's called upward progression, as incremental as it might be.
Contrary to what Sam Hinkie and his "process" would try to sell you, there are no nonstop flights from the lottery to the Finals. You don't just suck until you finally have all of the MacGuffin assets you need, and then immediately become a title contender. Especially not when you're in a market like Sacramento. Right now, one of the narratives surrounding Cousins is, "talented guy, can't lead a team to the playoffs." Get to the eighth seed, and that narrative changes; we still won't be able to get a superstar to come to Sacramento, but we'd instantly become more appealing to a better class of free agent than what we can currently get. Get to the fifth seed, and suddenly we're a team that might be able to trade for a star-level player, that won't immediately bolt when his contract expires. Now you can start seriously thinking about contending. But it all starts with the eighth seed; these are not steps that can be skipped. You can't just go from Point A to Point Z.
Contrary to what Sam Hinkie and his "process" would try to sell you, there are no nonstop flights from the lottery to the Finals. You don't just suck until you finally have all of the MacGuffin assets you need, and then immediately become a title contender. Especially not when you're in a market like Sacramento. Right now, one of the narratives surrounding Cousins is, "talented guy, can't lead a team to the playoffs." Get to the eighth seed, and that narrative changes; we still won't be able to get a superstar to come to Sacramento, but we'd instantly become more appealing to a better class of free agent than what we can currently get. Get to the fifth seed, and suddenly we're a team that might be able to trade for a star-level player, that won't immediately bolt when his contract expires. Now you can start seriously thinking about contending. But it all starts with the eighth seed; these are not steps that can be skipped. You can't just go from Point A to Point Z.
I don't believe that I missed the thrust of your post; I just don't draw the same conclusions from other people's posts in this thread that you are. Based on a cursory re-read of the thread, I don't feel as if "Kings Fans seem to be okay with settling for prolonged mediocrity" is a reasonable conclusion to come to.
Settling is also a relative term. I don't think, if we finish 44-38 and then get the 8th seed in 2017 that Kings Fans are going to be "happy" with doing the same thing in 2018, but they're bound to be happier than if we backslide, and end up 38-44, and the 10th seed. I think most of us feel like "Let's get this crawling thing down pat before we worry about how we'll place in the hurdles" is a more reasonable way of looking at things.
Settling is also a relative term. I don't think, if we finish 44-38 and then get the 8th seed in 2017 that Kings Fans are going to be "happy" with doing the same thing in 2018, but they're bound to be happier than if we backslide, and end up 38-44, and the 10th seed. I think most of us feel like "Let's get this crawling thing down pat before we worry about how we'll place in the hurdles" is a more reasonable way of looking at things.
I believe the problem is with your premise. I think most would be happy with the Kings getting the 7th or 8th seed this season. Expectations for the next season would to them improve on the previous season.
Obviously, I would love to see them progress to winning the Championship, would also be happy to see them be a 50 win team for the next 5 years (even if it didn't result in a Championship).
Obviously, I would love to see them progress to winning the Championship, would also be happy to see them be a 50 win team for the next 5 years (even if it didn't result in a Championship).
Hey guys, this thread is pretty stupid, Cousins will get respect when he leads his team to a ring or at the very least playoffs lol, who cares about supporting cast, this is the nba, individuals win championships, just look at lebron this year, cuz hasnt done anything to earn respect, amirite?
Amirite guys?
Amirite guys?
A perennial 50+ win team and a tough out in the playoffs would make me happy. I don't care if people don't like it. It is good to be among the better half of the teams - and then if you get lucky - a prospect pans out better than you hoped or you make a big trade, sure you make a run at the whole thing.
I have never understood "championship or bust". It is hard to win championships, and even then there is a lot of luck too.
Give me 50+ wins and I'll keep renewing my tickets.
I have never understood "championship or bust". It is hard to win championships, and even then there is a lot of luck too.
Give me 50+ wins and I'll keep renewing my tickets.
This is nonsense and you know it. You want to get me riled up, just go to extremes. Because someone realizes that you don't got from the bottom to the top in one or two moves, doesn't mean you settle for mediocrity. That's pure crap! It's that thinking that has gotten the team into trouble. You have to enter the race before you can win the race. Getting into the playoffs is just the first step. So yes, I'd be happy to go from the bottom of the pack to making the playoffs. If we lose in the first round, I'd be disappointed, but satisfied. However, the next year I would expect more improvement and further advancement in the playoffs.
Name me one person that said he or she would be happy with making the 8th spot into infinity. You can't! Either your someone that try's to twist words to fit your agenda, or you need reader comprehension classes. Sorry if I'm coming across as a little rude, but I'm so tired of this nonsense. Look, there's reality and there's fantasy. I live in the real world, and in that world, you have to go through the process of learning to win. To change the culture. What has happened up to now is immaterial other than to learn from it. If your still at the starting point that you were at six year ago, then that's where your at, and that's what you have to deal with. Where you should be isn't relevant. I may not like that, but those are the facts.
I believe that everyone on this forum wants to win a championship, but most have the intelligence to realize that there isn't a shortcut to that end. Shortcuts, patch jobs, call them what you will, don't work. They make you feel good right up until you realize that another season has been lost. Frankly I'm tired of watching other teams that were bottom dwelling with us, build the right way, and pass us by. Four or five years ago the Warriors were sitting here playing cards with us. Now they have a world championship banner flying in their arena. The T Wolves are climbing past us. I believe that Vlade is trying to build the team the right way. Hopefully Vivek will give him the time he needs to accomplish that. Hopefully the fans will do as well.
Name me one person that said he or she would be happy with making the 8th spot into infinity. You can't! Either your someone that try's to twist words to fit your agenda, or you need reader comprehension classes. Sorry if I'm coming across as a little rude, but I'm so tired of this nonsense. Look, there's reality and there's fantasy. I live in the real world, and in that world, you have to go through the process of learning to win. To change the culture. What has happened up to now is immaterial other than to learn from it. If your still at the starting point that you were at six year ago, then that's where your at, and that's what you have to deal with. Where you should be isn't relevant. I may not like that, but those are the facts.
I believe that everyone on this forum wants to win a championship, but most have the intelligence to realize that there isn't a shortcut to that end. Shortcuts, patch jobs, call them what you will, don't work. They make you feel good right up until you realize that another season has been lost. Frankly I'm tired of watching other teams that were bottom dwelling with us, build the right way, and pass us by. Four or five years ago the Warriors were sitting here playing cards with us. Now they have a world championship banner flying in their arena. The T Wolves are climbing past us. I believe that Vlade is trying to build the team the right way. Hopefully Vivek will give him the time he needs to accomplish that. Hopefully the fans will do as well.
I would wager that any "Kings fan" who would only be satisfied with a championship, was not a fan of the Kings prior to 1999.
Back in the 90's and 80's, Kings fans wanted a competitive team that went to the playoffs. Full stop.
There was none of this spoiled attitude of needing a championship.
Now get off my lawn; I'm going inside to take a nap.
Back in the 90's and 80's, Kings fans wanted a competitive team that went to the playoffs. Full stop.
There was none of this spoiled attitude of needing a championship.
Now get off my lawn; I'm going inside to take a nap.
I have seen people on this board who say that being in the middle is not the right place to be exactly because you could spend years spinning your wheels not being able to rise above mediocrity. Then I see people happy with the moves Vlade has made. And how exactly do the moves made over the last year not end us up in the no-man's land middle of mediocrity? I think that question is entirely fair. I'm not trying to rile anybody up. I just see a disconnect between past statements about being caught in the middle and the expectations for this team. Look, you have a said numerous times that the last place you want to be is in the middle - no man's land. I agree with that sentiment. To my mind, THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE THIS TEAM IS. So tell me how you see this team getting out of the middle. Vlade "trying" doesn't cut it. What is the strategy? Trying isn't a strategy. Hope isn't a strategy. As you yourself note: "shortcuts, patch jobs....don't work." I agree. But isn't that what we've seen over the last year? Agree? Disagree? If not, what is the strategy? The T-Wolves, who you rightly identify as climbing past us, obviously had a strategy: Go young, go draft, trade their best older player for a youngin with a high ceiling. So again, what is management strategy to get the Kings out of no-man's land?
Mediocrity is the last place you want to be with an aging team that can't go anywhere but down. Mediocrity is not so terrible a place if your franchise player is 25 and you have a talented young coach and some good young pieces to work with, precisely because they can go up. No team jumps from terrible to championship level. It's a process. You are taking past comments completely out of context, though it doesn't surprise me.
"A young coach"? You've got to kidding me. We have a young up and coming team; we know that because, among other things, our coach is young! What we have is ONE very good young player in Cousins. And then we have WCS, who is not at all a known quantity when it comes to his future value. That's it. "Young pieces"? Oh, yeah, like Ben McLemore!? Like our project draft that could easily take three years before they might shave in the NBA, if they even make it in the NBA? This is worthy of a PR guy for a general manager: "young coach," young pieces," and the one I really love - "It's a process." Oh yeah, I've taken it all out of context. I get it now - you're not talking about this Kings' team. You must be talking about that Kings' team in another dimension.
For 10 years or so, except for the Malone period, each coach has failed to get an identity for this team. They have failed for several reasons but there has been this hope that Sac would follow the trend of small ball/pace ball....despite having their best personnel geared for the half court game...Cousins, Tyreke when he was allowed to play PG.....the only coach that got some traction was Malone who got undercut by the weasel PDA.
Now we get a coach and GM who look like they are going to make this a grit and grind team to matchup their personnel. This is what many have been asking for. A coach that's going to push for defense. A roster of defensive oriented players who can knock down a 3. I really don't know if this is the most talented team but what they need to be is a cohesive defensive unit. If they can do that, then maybe this will be the most cohesive team we will have seen in what, a decade? Since the Adelman days?
Now we get a coach and GM who look like they are going to make this a grit and grind team to matchup their personnel. This is what many have been asking for. A coach that's going to push for defense. A roster of defensive oriented players who can knock down a 3. I really don't know if this is the most talented team but what they need to be is a cohesive defensive unit. If they can do that, then maybe this will be the most cohesive team we will have seen in what, a decade? Since the Adelman days?