Will Kings Retire Peja's Jersey?

[chasen4r1]

I know we've discussed this here in the past. And I ask this now based off of a tweet from Ben Mac this morning.

Ben McLemore @BenMcLemore
Hey @RealPeja16 I have something that belongs to you. Just borrowed it for a year... Want it back?

So it looks like Ben's changing his number. Stating that #16 belongs to Peja either could be just respect, or could mean something more... like maybe the Kings' making #16 Peja's number forever.

Thoughts?

 

[HndsmCelt]

I try to never over read into these things. That being said I have NO problem with retiring 16 or 10

 

[Albatros]

I think Ben basically leaked it just after he joined, paraphrasing but he said something like "it's for a very good reason" (why i will be changing numbers.)

I can't think of anything else that's a "very good reason" unless he's allergic to 16.

 

[VF21]

I think this will end up being the worst kept secret in the history of Kings basketball. At this point, I have no problem with retiring Peja's number. I never did like how his trade was handled by the previous regime.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, it speaks to our pathetic franchise. You shouldn't be retiring 2nd and 3rd tier jerseys or you soon won't have any to retire.

 

[VF21]

Well, it speaks to our pathetic franchise. You shouldn't be retiring 2nd and 3rd tier jerseys or you soon won't have any to retire.

If we run out of numbers, we'll just add a digit.

I've gotten over taking the whole thing so seriously. If it makes people feel good about the team and the franchise, go for it. We're talking about players and a game and entertainment. Take the joyous moments when we can.

I no longer care what anyone who isn't a Kings fan thinks about us or our "pathetic franchise." If those outsiders want to look down their noses, let them. It will not in any way diminish how I (or any other Kings fan I know) feel about our Kings. Life is just too short to worry about the small stuff.

 

[NoBonus]

Ben is just trying to sell more of his jerseys.... just like Kobe did when he switched from 666 to 8.

 

[upinsmoke]

*2002
If whoever was pulling the refs strings would have let the Kings ring out the Lakers I don't think there would be any doubt if #16, #10, #13 and even #24 would be hanging high in the rafters.

 

[John Galt]

I think it diminishes the honor for the real greats who are hanging up there now. #16 hanging from the rafters really? I don't believe it. If it is true then line up Bibby, Christie, Brad Miller, Kevin Martin, while we're at it how about Metta - a real tribute to "what might have been, if only we'd won".

I hope they don't do it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I wouldn't do it, but I'm not a hundred percent sure that I can separate my anti-Stojakovic bias from whether or not I think he actually accomplished enough as a player to deserve it. If they decide to do it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Well, I have to admit that my initial reaction to the idea of retiring Peja's number is that he doesn't make the cut. But rather than just say "no" and be done with it, I figured why not take a look at the case FOR Peja.

First let me ask: Are we retiring too many numbers? For a franchise with only one championship (and that back in 1951), is 9 retired numbers too many? We've been in the league since the inception (before it was even called the NBA) - 1948. In those 66 years we've retired one number per 7.3 years. If you look at franchises who have either 0 or 1 championship, we're kind of smack dab in the middle. The Trailblazers (1 every 4.4 years), Jazz (5), Suns (5.1), Cavaliers (6.3), Bucks (6.6), and Nets (6.7) have retired numbers at a quicker pace than we have, while the Sonics/Thunder (7.8), Mavericks (11.3), Pacers (11.75), Wizards (13.25), Hawks (22), and Magic (0 since 1989) have retired fewer. We rank 7th out of 13 in pace of retiring numbers amongst these "perennial noncontenders", so it' not like we're going nutty with retiring numbers. There's room for another retired number, if it's warranted.

So what does Peja have going for him? First off, he's #6 all time in points scored for our franchise, and is the highest Kings scorer to NOT have his number retired. He's #1 in three-pointers made, safely ahead of Richmond and more than doubling Kevin Martin. He's #2 all-time in 3-point percentage, only 0.006 behind Richmond. He's #8 all-time in games played (though only three of the seven above him are retired) and #7 in minutes played (4 of the 6 ahead of him are retired). He's #1 all-time in free throw percentage by a large margin, though he comes in only 12th all time in FTM. And for as bad of a defender as he is sometimes reputed to be, he is 8th all-time in steals.

So, looking at that, I'd say that he stacks up pretty well against the "bottom tier" of players whose numbers we have retired. He's certainly not a no-brainer, but he's actually got a decent argument. He was one of the very best SFs in the league for about a five-year stretch, and his arrival coincided with a team resurgence to easily the best our franchise has been since the early '50s, though he's certainly not the only factor. It could go either way. He's about as fringe of a player that could have his number retired, but it's not a bad call if it happens, in my opinion.

 

[Warhawk]

Well, I have to admit that my initial reaction to the idea of retiring Peja's number is that he doesn't make the cut. But rather than just say "no" and be done with it, I figured why not take a look at the case FOR Peja.

...

So, looking at that, I'd say that he stacks up pretty well against the "bottom tier" of players whose numbers we have retired. He's certainly not a no-brainer, but he's actually got a decent argument. He was one of the very best SFs in the league for about a five-year stretch, and his arrival coincided with a team resurgence to easily the best our franchise has been since the early '50s, though he's certainly not the only factor. It could go either way. He's about as fringe of a player that could have his number retired, but it's not a bad call if it happens, in my opinion.

Thanks for all that. I was leaning towards "no" and still tip that way, but if they do it's not like they are putting Hawes up there or anything.

 

[Bricklayer]

Sam Lacey is the only real comparison. Every other retired King except Vlade is in the HOF or will be. Lacey was the mistake, and all he did was spend 12 years with the franchise. Not sure when his jersey was retired, but he retired in 1983, so would not terribly surprise me if it was retired by new ownership in Sacto after the move for the same reasons this new ownership would reach on Peja (except new ownership may be trying to do the NBA 3.0 thing by trying to CPR the old Kings/Balkans international fanbase) . Either way, those aren't retired numbers level guys.

 

[Bricklayer]

The numbers:


Mitch Rich 517gm 517gs 12070pts 1933reb 2128ast
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Peja Stojak 518gm 408gs 9498pts 2581reb 1037ast
Mike Bibby 476gm 473gs 8384pts 1537reb 2580ast
Regi Theus 346gm 341gs 6492pts 1155reb 2809ast
Kevin Mart 331gm 245gs 5660pts 1211reb 616ast

Mitch Rich 37.8min 23.3pts 3.7reb 4.1ast 1.3stl 0.3blk 2.8TO (TS% .564)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regi Theus 34.3min 18.8pts 3.3reb 8.1ast 1.1stl 0.2blk 3.6TO (TS% .546)
Peja Stojak 34.2min 18.3pts 5.0reb 2.0ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 1.6TO (TS% .585)
Mike Bibby 35.7min 17.6pts 3.2reb 5.4ast 1.2stl 0.2blk 2.3TO (TS% .543)
Kevin Mart 30.6min 17.1pts 3.7reb 1.9ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 1.7TO (TS% .599)

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Well, it speaks to our pathetic franchise. You shouldn't be retiring 2nd and 3rd tier jerseys or you soon won't have any to retire.

I agree.

While I appreciate Capt's research in regards to how often other franchises are retiring jersey's in comparison, I don't think Peja makes the cut or is even really all that close.

While I don't think winning titles is the end all, be all litmus to getting your jersey retired, I do believe the player should be a Hall Of Fame caliber player or contributed to the franchise in some unique and extraordinary manner.

Mitch Richmond had 2 things going for him. First, he was a HOF caliber player, which has been proven by his recent induction. Secondly, he was the franchises (Sacramento era) first true star player that put an unrecognized city and fan base on the National map. I get why his jersey was retired.

Chris Webber's situation is akin to Mitch Richmond. He was the best player on the most successful team's the franchise has ever fielded in Sacramento and is a HOF caliber player, even if he is never inducted. While Mitch put Sacramento on the map, Webber was the star player on a team that went global, not only because of their foreign players, but because they were one of the NBA's best and most entertaining teams during most of his tenure. In fact, an argument can certainly be made that he is the best player the Kings have ever had in Sacramento. I get why his jersey was retired.

Vlade Divac doesn't have the same things going for him that Mitch and Chris did. He wasn't the best player on the team nor was he one of the top players in the league when he played in Sacramento. However, he was the first legit free agent acquisition the the Kings ever had. While most players of Vlade's caliber wouldn't consider signing in Sacramento, Vlade actually did. And he helped make the Kings the most exciting team for all those years. When you also factor in his leadership and an outside shot at making the Hall of Fame (due to his international success), I get why his jersey was retired.

Coming full circle to Peja, I don't see how he has any of the things going for him that those 3 players do. Stojakovic was a very good player, no doubt,but the NBA is full of very good players. Peja was an all-star role player. That's it. He isn't a HOF caliber player. He was never the best player on his team and the face of the franchise. He wasn't the leader and global ambassador that Vlade Divac was. IMO, you don't consider retiring his jersey anymore than you consider retiring Doug Christie's, Bobby Jackson's, or Mike Bibby's. Even if the Kings had won 1 title with those guys, I still wouldn't retire any of their jersey's. While great guys and talented players, their careers weren't worthy of it.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

One more thought, though, regarding McLemore's comment: What if it is as simple as wanting go back to his college # since it was freed up by the trade of Marcus Thornton? Ben wore #23 in college, but couldn't get the number when he first came to the team because Thornton had it. Marcus was traded late enough in the season that Ben may not have wanted to waste time changing numbers until this season. Perhaps it has nothing to do with Peja at all, other than him recognizing who used to wear #16 before him.

Just a thought.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Sam Lacey is the only real comparison. Every other retired King except Vlade is in the HOF or will be. Lacey was the mistake, and all he did was spend 12 years with the franchise. Not sure when his jersey was retired, but he retired in 1983, so would not terribly surprise me if it was retired by new ownership in Sacto after the move for the same reasons this new ownership would reach on Peja (except new ownership may be trying to do the NBA 3.0 thing by trying to CPR the old Kings/Balkans international fanbase) . Either way, those aren't retired numbers level guys.

I think that Lacey has a much stronger case to his number being retired: all-time franchise leader in rebounds, blocks and steals? Second all-time in assists, fifth all-time in points? He rates Top Ten or better among the franchise in virtually every statistical category that existed during his playing career, and even a few (#7 in Win Shares, #1 in Def. Win Shares, #1 in Def. Rating) they made up after he retired.

I think that a case could be made that Lacey might be the fifth-most significant player in franchise history (after Robertson, Twyman, Richmond and Webber... maybe Divac ahead of him), whereas I'm not convinced that Stojakovic is the fifth-most significant player in the Sacramento era; he might just about be at fifth, right now, but Cousins is gaining on him.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

One more thought, though, regarding McLemore's comment: What if it is as simple as wanting go back to his college # since it was freed up by the trade of Marcus Thornton? Ben wore #23 in college, but couldn't get the number when he first came to the team because Thornton had it. Marcus was traded late enough in the season that Ben may not have wanted to waste time changing numbers until this season. Perhaps it has nothing to do with Peja at all, other than him recognizing who used to wear #16 before him.

I don't think that you're allowed to change numbers mid-season unless you get traded, anyway.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I don't think that you're allowed to change numbers mid-season unless you get traded, anyway.

Well, there you go. Excellent point

 

[upinsmoke]

One more thought, though, regarding McLemore's comment: What if it is as simple as wanting go back to his college # since it was freed up by the trade of Marcus Thornton? Ben wore #23 in college, but couldn't get the number when he first came to the team because Thornton had it. Marcus was traded late enough in the season that Ben may not have wanted to waste time changing numbers until this season. Perhaps it has nothing to do with Peja at all, other than him recognizing who used to wear #16 before him.

Just a thought.

But my Mclemore jersey!

 

[kingsboi]

They retired Vlade...I don't see why they don't do the same with Peja. He's done his fair share of good work in Sacramento.

 

[Bricklayer]

They retired Vlade...I don't see why they don't do the same with Peja. He's done his fair share of good work in Sacramento.

That's the danger with retiring somebody like Vlade. But Vlade was special, a player of far more importance than his oncourt production. He was that "important to the franchise" guy that sometimes also gets his number retired. Same theory Lacey came in under. Not a talent thing, a heart and soul thing.

 

[Glenn]

Well, it speaks to our pathetic franchise. You shouldn't be retiring 2nd and 3rd tier jerseys or you soon won't have any to retire.

You retire the jersey of the players you don't want to forget. There is no standard that is league wide. We have so few "unforgetables" that our bar is lower than most teams. That being said, Peja doesn't qualify as far as I m concerned. He wasn't Vlade, Chris, or Mitch.

 

[whozit]

If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't. Not a deal breaker either way.

 

[King Baller]

I think we sometimes forget how good Peja was in the Kings golden era. The following is from his Wiki:

In 2001–02, he played in the NBA All-Star Game for the first time. His scoring average went up to 21.2 ppg, and he reached career highs in shooting percentage (.484) and three-point percentage (.416). His scoring average dropped slightly to 19.2 ppg in 2002–03, but he played again in the All-Star Game. In both seasons, he won the three-point shooting contest conducted during All-Star Weekend.

In 2003–04, Stojaković was again selected as an All-Star, and finished second in the league in scoring with a career-high 24.2 ppg. He finished fourth in MVP voting and was voted on to the All-NBA 2nd Team. He also led the NBA in free-throw percentage (.933) and three-pointers made for the season (240). In 2004–05, he missed 16 games to injury, and was somewhat hampered in several games, but still averaged 20.1 ppg.


For five years there he averaged over a steal a game, 1.3 steals a game in 2003 - 2004. His defense on Dirk was very good when the Kings faced Dallas, remember Peja was listed at 6' 10".

IMO all the starters and Bobby J from the 2001 - 2002 should have jerseys in the rafters. That was a special team and should not be forgotten.

Edit: I was looking at the minutes played that season. I also think Scot Pollard and Brother Hedo should be included in this special tribute to the 2001 - 2002 Kings Team. What a wonderful marketing promotion this could be for the Kings Marketing team.

KB

 

[Bricklayer]

I think we sometimes forget how good Peja was in the Kings golden era. The following is from his Wiki:

In 2001–02, he played in the NBA All-Star Game for the first time. His scoring average went up to 21.2 ppg, and he reached career highs in shooting percentage (.484) and three-point percentage (.416). His scoring average dropped slightly to 19.2 ppg in 2002–03, but he played again in the All-Star Game. In both seasons, he won the three-point shooting contest conducted during All-Star Weekend.

In 2003–04, Stojaković was again selected as an All-Star, and finished second in the league in scoring with a career-high 24.2 ppg. He finished fourth in MVP voting and was voted on to the All-NBA 2nd Team. He also led the NBA in free-throw percentage (.933) and three-pointers made for the season (240). In 2004–05, he missed 16 games to injury, and was somewhat hampered in several games, but still averaged 20.1 ppg.


For five years there he averaged over a steal a game, 1.3 steals a game in 2003 - 2004. His defense on Dirk was very good when the Kings faced Dallas, remember Peja was listed at 6' 10".

IMO all the starters and Bobby J from the 2001 - 2002 should have jerseys in the rafters. That was a special team and should not be forgotten.

KB

Like I say, you can't do that. Cheapens the honor for the true greats, and quickly runs you out of jersey numbers. For a team that never even won a title, even having 2 up there is pretty remarkable.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Like I say, you can't do that. Cheapens the honor for the true greats, and quickly runs you out of jersey numbers. For a team that never even won a title, even having 2 up there is pretty remarkable.

Totally agree. To think that The Rock (so deserving of Kings honor) left team to win NBA championship with hated Lakers. Peja likewise leaving Kings to win title with Dallas. Both merely benchwarmers at that time in their great careers. Let's win a championship in Sacramento, then we'll likely have some deserving candidates for another ceremony and permanently display in new downtown arena. Although I might make exception for Gary Gerould (upon retirement), classy voice of the Kings since team first came here in 1985. I think couple NBA announcers have had their jersey "mic" retired, hoisted up in team rafters.

 

[VF21]

Instead of extending the honor individually to Peja, maybe they need to come up with a way to honor the entire team. That team was truly something special and will forever remain so in the hearts of those of us who were lucky enough to see them.

 

[Glenn]

Instead of extending the honor individually to Peja, maybe they need to come up with a way to honor the entire team. That team was truly something special and will forever remain so in the hearts of those of us who were lucky enough to see them.

You mean like a championship trophy?

 

[HndsmCelt]

Instead of extending the honor individually to Peja, maybe they need to come up with a way to honor the entire team. That team was truly something special and will forever remain so in the hearts of those of us who were lucky enough to see them.

Hang an Asterisk banner? Retire Bavita's Stripes in the bathroom?