Where do the Kings PGs rank in the West?

[Bricklayer]

A week ago I asked the question where our C/PF ranked in the West, with most respondents ranking them in the #4-#8 range largely on the strength of Ryan Hollins.

Well that poll closes tomorrow, so time for another. Assuming that Darren Collison/Ramon Sessions/Ray McCallum remain the PG trio (i.e. no magical Rondo trades), where do the Kings PGs rank amongst teams in the West?:

POR: Lillard/Blake/maybe some McCollum
SAC Collison/Sessions/McCallum
GSW Curry/Livingston
LAL Nash/Lin/Price
LAC Paul/Farmar
PHX Dragic/Bledsoe/IT
UTH Burke/Exum
DEN Lawson/Robinson
OKC Westbrook/RJackson/Telfair
SAN Parker/Mills/Joseph
HOU Beverley/ISmith/Canaan
DAL Felton/DHarris/JNelson
NOH Holiday/Fredette/Tyreke in a pinch
MEM Conley/Udrih
MIN Rubio/LaVine/Barea

 

[Kingster]

Probably in the bottom third. I'm interested to see the regular season games to see how opposing teams game plan the Kings guards.

 

[pshn80]

I can't help to say where they rank. I can give you first impressions of Collison and Sessions. Collison seems to be as advertised - quick, decent ball handler, decent ossasional scorer, average moving the ball, quick and pesky n defense, not a barn burner but decent. Sessions seems to fall short of being the distributor we need, seems much more of a score first and he's good at it, might have a little too much of the IT/?Tyreke syndrome, don't know how well he will fit the team but he will score.

My WAG, in three or four years here they might be the number one cat's meow or long gone.

 

[John Galt]

we have two career backups platooning - can't be anything other than dead last till they prove otherwise.

 

[206Fan]

we have two career backups platooning - can't be anything other than dead last till they prove otherwise.

We have to be AT LEAST better than UTA's Burke and Exum. Burke had a really poor rookie year(they all sucked), and Exum is a major unknown.

 

[jcwkings]

Surely near the bottom on talent.

 

[kingsboi]

voted for the 8-9 range...both are scoring guards and I'm not including Ray in this because he will not be playing this year unless it's garbage time or injuries occur.

 

[Bricklayer]

we have two career backups platooning - can't be anything other than dead last till they prove otherwise.

The strange idea that Darren Collison has been a career long backup seems hard to stamp out. I'm not sure where it came from other than the simple fact he was backing up CP3 last year, but just some comparisons of youngish PGs (all between 24-27):

Bledsoe 240gms 78gs 32.5% started
Collison 376gms 254gs 67.6% started
GDragic 424gms 188gs 44.3% started
JermLin 217gms 140gs 64.5% started
Sessions 467gms 127gs 27.2% started
Thomas 216gms 153gs 70.8% started

I mean...he's not a star, but he's started more games than any of those guys, and almost as high a percentage as IT. you want to see a team that's REALLY in trouble at the PG, look to the poor Suns trying to start two career backups alongside each other.

 

[Spike]

Lower on talent, higher on fit - probably somewhere in the middle. I don't see them as a liability, but definitely not a strength of this team. We shouldn't be depending on them to carry us anyway, so I'm not as worried as I could be.

 

[John Galt]

The strange idea that Darren Collison has been a career long backup seems hard to stamp out. I'm not sure where it came from other than the simple fact he was backing up CP3 last year, but just some comparisons of youngish PGs (all between 24-27):

Bledsoe 240gms 78gs 32.5% started
Collison 376gms 254gs 67.6% started
GDragic 424gms 188gs 44.3% started
JermLin 217gms 140gs 64.5% started
Sessions 467gms 127gs 27.2% started
Thomas 216gms 153gs 70.8% started

I mean...he's not a star, but he's started more games than any of those guys, and almost as high a percentage as IT. you want to see a team that's REALLY in trouble at the PG, look to the poor Suns trying to start two career backups alongside each other.

ok point taken about career starts I guess, but LOL at Suns "career backups" making up half your list. I'm no IT fan but I'd sure love to trade ALL THREE of our guys for Dragic OR Bledsoe.

And fwiw I feel strongly that we IMPROVED at the position on balance - to me IT isn't of the Bledsoe/Dragic caliber.

 

[Sac.Kings]

In terms of talent, we are neither strong nor weak at the PG spot, but because we are in the West, we are in the bottom third for sure, maybe somewhere in the middle if the stars align for us this season. As someone mentioned above though, the FO decided PG wasn't going to be our strong suit, but just adequate. We have a good SF, a great C, and now we need a good to great PF next to our C.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

We have a weak starter (Collison, and that seems to be by design) and a strong backup (Sessions). Of course the PG spot is completely overloaded with talent these days, but I think that is still of course good enough to be better than all of the crappy/roleplayer/youth PG rotations (LAL, UTH, HOU, DAL) but just below the level of PG rotations that include at least one starter that is better than just solid (DEN with Lawson, NOP with Holliday, MIN with Rubio), and a significant step behind those teams with star PGs (POR, GSW, SAS, MEM, LAC, PHX, OKC). So I would say 11th in West.

 

[The_Jamal]

depth wise, Sessions is a better back-up than everyone elses back-up PG other than PHX. But from a starters perspective, the only guy Collison is really better than in the West is Felton and possibly Nash, depending on how he rebounds from injury. Not entirely sure he's better than Lin though.

So with depth factored in, probably somewhere for 10-13 would be right, depending on how the young back-courts shape out.

 

[King Baller]

Well Nash is not Nash anymore and Burke was not very good last year. So the Kings PG duo is better than what the Lakers and the Jazz can roll out, all the other teams have a better starter than Collison.

Because of the Suns and OKC Sessions gets the nod as the 3rd best backup PG.

The Kings duo is pretty solid.

 

[biltalent]

Well Nash is not Nash anymore and Burke was not very good last year. So the Kings PG duo is better than what the Lakers and the Jazz can roll out, all the other teams have a better starter than Collison.

Because of the Suns and OKC Sessions gets the nod as the 3rd best backup PG.

The Kings duo is pretty solid.

T0tally agree with you, but I'd add that I think Collison is better than whoever starts for the Mavericks.

I would rank them something like this:

First Cluster:
01. LAC Paul/Farmar
02. GSW Curry/Livingston
03. PHX Dragic/Bledsoe/IT
04. OKC Westbrook/RJackson/Telfair (Jackson will probably start with Durant being injured)

Second Cluster:
05. SAN Parker/Mills/Joseph
06. POR Lillard/Blake/maybe some McCollum
07. DEN Lawson/Robinson
08. MEM Conley/Udrih
09. NOH Holiday/Fredette/Tyreke in a pinch (IF Holiday is healthy)

Third Cluster:
10. MIN Rubio/LaVine/Barea
11. SAC Collison/Sessions/McCallum
12. LAL Nash/Lin/Price

Fourth Cluster:
13. HOU Beverley/ISmith/Canaan
14. DAL Felton/DHarris/JNelson
15. UTH Burke/Exum

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

T0tally agree with you, but I'd add that I think Collison is better than whoever starts for the Mavericks.

I would rank them something like this:

First Cluster:
01. LAC Paul/Farmar
02. GSW Curry/Livingston
03. PHX Dragic/Bledsoe/IT
04. OKC Westbrook/RJackson/Telfair (Jackson will probably start with Durant being injured)

Second Cluster:
05. SAN Parker/Mills/Joseph
06. POR Lillard/Blake/maybe some McCollum
07. DEN Lawson/Robinson
08. MEM Conley/Udrih
09. NOH Holiday/Fredette/Tyreke in a pinch (IF Holiday is healthy)

Third Cluster:
10. MIN Rubio/LaVine/Barea
11. SAC Collison/Sessions/McCallum
12. LAL Nash/Lin/Price

Fourth Cluster:
13. HOU Beverley/ISmith/Canaan
14. DAL Felton/DHarris/JNelson
15. UTH Burke/Exum

This is a really good breakdown of the tiers, although I would swap Houston with LAL judging from what I've seen from Nash this preseason. He's completely finished.

 

[mac]

Not that it really makes a difference but NO's PG backup may be Rivers and not Jimmer, depending on how you see it.

 

[KingMilz]

I don't really think it matters cause both can play and both contribute that's all that matters. 48 mins of solid PG is more than you can ask for. No matter where they are ranked the PG position will be a strength for us this season.

But we are way better than Twovles, Rockets, Lakers, Jazz and Dallas.

I would say Curry/Livingston are the best combo

 

[Npliam]

Even though Utah has a worse situation right now at point guard I don't feel bad about it. We have potential to be solid at that position with the young guys we have.

 

[Kingster]

We have to be AT LEAST better than UTA's Burke and Exum. Burke had a really poor rookie year(they all sucked), and Exum is a major unknown.

Burke looks good; Exum looks like a young star in the making. I'd much rather have those guys than Collison and Sessions, if only because the ceiling of the Utah guys is much higher.

 

[206Fan]

Even though Utah has a worse situation right now at point guard I don't feel bad about it. We have potential to be solid at that position with the young guys we have.

I think you guys have a problem at PG. It has to be either Burke or Exum.. Exum is a pg and it would be a shame to see him play any position other than PG. It's like forcing Tyreke Evans to be a SG/SF. How do you think it'll play out? Do you think the team will eventually shift focus on Exum and make him the starter?

 

[KingMilz]

I think you guys have a problem at PG. It has to be either Burke or Exum.. Exum is a pg and it would be a shame to see him play any position other than PG. It's like forcing Tyreke Evans to be a SG/SF. How do you think it'll play out? Do you think the team will eventually shift focus on Exum and make him the starter?

Exum has looked absolutely awful in playing for Australia and from what I have watched the Jazz I don't think he's ready to play the point very much this season.

 

[Npliam]

I think you guys have a problem at PG. It has to be either Burke or Exum.. Exum is a pg and it would be a shame to see him play any position other than PG. It's like forcing Tyreke Evans to be a SG/SF. How do you think it'll play out? Do you think the team will eventually shift focus on Exum and make him the starter?

For this season Exum just won't play a lot. He isn't nearly strong enough. Burke had a bad year last year but so far has looked really good in pre-season. Burke and Burks will mostly play the point but Exum is long and quick. Most Jazz fans aren't expecting much from him this year but are excited about his potential.

 

[hrdboild]

For comparisons sake, yeah we're not particularly strong at point guard in the sense that we don't currently employ any established stars. But when you look around the league at the teams with star PGs, most of these guys we had no opportunity to acquire at any point in their careers.

The Clippers only have Chris Paul because they were lucky enough to win the #1 pick and take Blake Griffin. Without Griffin, Paul would not have accepted a trade there.
The Bulls got incredibly lucky to win a #1 pick that year and drafted Derrick Rose.
Washington drafted John Wall with a #1 pick.
Cleveland drafted Kyrie Irving with a #1 pick.
The Thunder drafted Russell Westbrook with a top 5 pick.
Memphis drafted Mike Conley with a top 5 pick.
Tony Parker is a guy Greg Popovich scouted and developed for San Antonio, something which he's shown a pretty good knack for over the years.
New Orleans traded Nerlens Noel (and an additional lottery pick) to get Jrue Holiday.

Granted Stephen Curry, Damien Lillard, Rajon Rondo, Kemba Walker, and Kyle Lowry were all guys we could have drafted but didn't. But that's the nature of the draft. With the exception of Rondo's unresolved situation, all of those guys' current teams are all pretty happy with them right now and plan to keep them around obviously. Collison and Sessions both belong in the middle class of steady but unspectacular PGs that fill out the rest of the league's starting five. Not every team gets to have a star player at every position. We're lucky enough to have a star center and a pretty good SF as well. Who knows, maybe we get lucky too and get our own star PG in an upcoming draft or we're finally able to sign Rondo. But in the meantime, I think we've done well to bring in some steady veterans who know how to do the job. Not to mention we've got a promising youngster to develop on a minimum contract as well.

 

[BMiller52]

I'd say either 9-10. Both of them are middle tier guys, and the strength in our PG platoon is we have 2 solid players instead of having a guy who is completely poverty as a back up. I would say we're better equipped at PG than teams like the Lakers and Mavs but obviously not as good at PG as teams like the Warriors or Blazers are.

 

[Chupacabra]

Better than LAL HOU DAL UTAH.