WCS willing to change roles?

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by kingsfan1984, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    Tim Tebow decided he would only be the player he wanted to be (QB) and choose to leave the NFL over switching to a different role.

    Is this a similar midset of WCS
    ? He seems to be (from the outside looking in) as disinterested in the defensive role player role as Tebow was in switching to TE. It seems either he will become "the one" or nothing.

    I'm all for him expanding his game, but he should do it little at time when opportunity arise in the flow and focus first on mastering defense and rebounding imo.
  2. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    He doesn't have a high work rate. I think it's motor but can also be health related. He's also kind of an easy, going free spirited guy, in a league where defensive monsters need a bit of nasty. Offense is less tedious, more interesting and defense takes more effort in general. He doesn't need to master defense/rebounding, just be solid IMO, which he is far from.

    I don't know if he has the work rate, or body (he's still thin, without muscle mass, and a tweener IMO), to be an effective paint presence defensively, but we will see this year. Looks like he will be penciled in as the starter despite Kosta's solid presence. I guess I agree with that if the team isn't winning, and has to see if WCS can meet expectations at all before his contract becomes a situation
    MizzouKing likes this.
  3. Sac.Kings

    Sac.Kings Well-Known Member

    If it were me, I would be looking to trade him before he loses a lot of value. That's the mistake we made with Ben. Flashes of potential with no consistency.

    I would give him a couple months in the season to show what he has improved upon but if it's what it looks like in preseason he has to go.
    John Galt and SLAB like this.
  4. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    I'm about done with WCS. I'll be forever worried about a failing Big going all Hassan Whiteside on the league at some point, but if someone is willing to trade value for him... go for it.

    The fact I think PapaG is more deserving of minutes, and has bigger long-term potential says quite a bit.

    ... then again my opinions are rash and change wildly. We'll see how he fares in the games that matter, then I'll have an opinion that matters.
  5. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    I'd imagin his ideal career arc would be to first try to do what A. Jordan does on both sides of the ball except on offense can slowly add more blake griffin to his game. Muscle and intensity/tenacity seem to be a big the 2 biggest things holding him back. Thought the seal training would have taught him about intensity?
  6. OptimusRhyme

    OptimusRhyme Jive Turkey Contributor

    tbh it looks like he dosen't even care out there.. I'd look to flip him for a defender/rebounder...
    I'm fine going forward with Giles and Papa G at center.
    One and Done, VF21 and John Galt like this.
  7. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I would need proof he actually attended that :)
    kingsfan1984, CelticsFan and Kingster like this.
  8. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    Me too! Ive not seen a photo or heard about any follow up interviews with him talking about his experience and what he learned or picked up. I only remember hearing it as part of his offseason plan. Then his painting in Thailand interview...
  9. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    I give him this whole season to prove that he’s our center of the playoff-bound Kings team two years from now. Or not.
    There’s no health issue, okay? Whoever keeps bringing that up, you’re just beating a dead horse.
    He does have a sleeper style of play, but that’s his style, like it or not.
    I do want him to simplify his game, though. Just become really good at three things. Then build on that.
    MizzouKing and VF21 like this.
  10. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    You certainly have to be concerned about giving him a long term contract. Because of his inconsistent effort he appears to be an immature player. Joerger seemingly has allowed him to do anything he wants on the offensive end, as if he's really an offensive talent, which he isn't. Last season he looked to be a total bust until he turned it on during the second half of the season. He said he went after rebounds "outside of his area" because the fans were all over him for not doing so. I have to assume that Joerger talked to him about getting rebounds "outside of his area" before many of the fans weighed in. Is WCS that out of touch with reality or that lazy that he didn't know he should go after those rebounds before he read the fans' criticisms? It's just odd. I wish Papa was a better player right now to give WCS some competition for minutes, as WCS seems far too assured in his own mind that he's "the man" at center for the Sacramento Kings. At the least, the vets and the coaches have to really get in this guy's ear to play with effort every single night. I don't want him to be a player that the Kings let go because of lack of effort and then after his 2nd or 3rd team he finally ends playing up to his potential.
    kingsfan1984 and 206Fan like this.
  11. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    "No health issue" is bad news... because you can treat/cure a health issue and I was hoping it might be something like that.

    What is a sleeper style of play? I don't like it.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  12. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    leave it to Kings fans to label a player as underwhelming, uninterested or whatever else comes to mind. I get it, preseason is all we have to go on up to this point in the season but I don't think it's fair to make proper judgment until he at least has another full season with Joerger and see how he is utilized as the season goes on. The Kings can afford to wait and see if they have anything in him, it's not as if he is hurting the playoff chances o_O
  13. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Trill only gets fired up for interviews.
  14. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    once someone asks him why he isn't putting in the work on the boards, he will go out and try to do just that due to the annoyance.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  15. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Hopefully!

    WCS could be a stud defender and above average rebounder if he wanted to. He needs to move past these delusions of offensive grandeur.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  16. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I think WCS can be decent but I think he has to be with another good big. WCS and Skal together is not a good combination at this point in their careers. WCS is also dependent on a PG who can feed him close to the basket such as Ty Lawson. I don't believe WCS is a center and if we are going to compare players at center on this team it's Koufos, then Papa, then WCS. WCS taking a steady diet of jumpers is only going to disappoint.

    I think best case scenario for WCS is to be a John Salley type. I think everyone would be ecstatic in this case. Salley wasn't a good rebounder but was a good complementary piece in the Detroit teams, good to great defender.
  17. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    Is he a PF either in the modern NBA? He hasn't been more adept checking perimeter bigs than in the paint, and doesn't really have the range to space the floor.
  18. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    He's not a center.....such as Koufos who does check bigs in the paint and rebounds. Not a stretch 4 obviously. A guy like Tristan Thompson is a player that is integral to his teams success as an interior defender, a pick and roll defender and he boards. Doesn't give you much offense at all. Not a good passer or FT shooter. Sure helps that Lebron is on the floor with him. Would be tremendous if WCS could emulate him but the motor is not even close. I think the more WCS tries to score from the high post, the more liability he is.
  19. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I think I will wait until 40 games into the regular season before I start bashing our players. Seriously these guys just started playing together. How do we know what any of them can do? Judging them from what we have seen in preseason is a knee jerk reaction.
  20. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Knee jerk reaction? Isn't that the definition of a King's fan after a decade of drought?
    DesertFox likes this.
  21. Dr. Spaceman

    Dr. Spaceman Active Member

    I'm disappointed with Joerger's development of WCS thus far. Everyone in this thread has hit the evaluation on the head as it pertains to Willie allowing himself to become too deluded with the idea that he needed to expand his offensive game before he truly developed in to a force in the key area we drafted him to become.

    I'll say this: WCS under Pop would be a completely different player, or he'd break him trying. Look at Kawhi: he was a defensive player with limited skill and strong physical tools coming out of the draft. Only after he developed in to a strong defensive player did he get the green light to then focus on his offensive repertoire.

    As it stands now, WCS is a mediocre player at both ends of the floor, precisely because of his lack of focus & honesty about his development goals. Joerger has hopefully seen the red flags this preseason and will rein him in.
  22. Nokidding

    Nokidding Member

    Thomas Robinson thought the same thing (with a lower ceiling than WCS) when he came into the NBA about being a offensive force and the only times he found solid success is when all he did was hustle hard for brief moments in Philly/Portland.

    Just stick to what you do best, where is the WCS that was chasing down lighting quick guards on the break to swat them out of bounds a couple of Summer Leagues ago?
    VF21 and kingsfan1984 like this.
  23. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    Willie really has freakish physical skills. Most of his limitations are mental. Last year Coach really got on him to rebound better. He had some 15 boards games. Offense came easily to him. Now he appears lost a lot of the time. He was slow getting down the floor to cover the break. He got 4 rebounds against the Baby Warriors. He needs to start playing with some urgency or he will not last.
    VF21, 206Fan and kingsfan1984 like this.
  24. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    There is some story i heard the other day about some high school kid that kept challenging Air Jordan. Jordan took the challenge and destroyed him. Took every opportunity to put the kid in his place. Just demolished him.

    The point is, other than i admire MJ as the ultimate competitor, i see WCS using a challenge like this pickup game to work on his jumper, giving up open shots and not running down any boards, ending in a loss.

    He doesn't seem to be motivated by crushing another mans spirit that is unfortunate enough to cross his path. As a fan, thats what i want to see. Locking someone up defensively makes them feel helpless. Smashing the ball into their face showers them in humiliation. Grabbing a board over their head brings shame to the oppnent and makes him look weaker. In contrast, shooting a finess jumper 18ft away from the hoop does nothing to defeat your opponents spirit.

    I want to see Soul Crusher WCS and less of Mr. Sleep Train Sleeper Style WCS
    VF21 and ppine like this.
  25. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    I wish. There are serious fans actually saying Papagiannis is better. Mediocre would be a step in the right direction for WCS
    SLAB likes this.
  26. One and Done

    One and Done Active Member

    The weaknesses that pervaded WCS throughout his time in Kentucky and leading up to the draft continue to be an issue, and judging by this small pre-season sampling, appear to have gotten worse. Scouts questioned his:
    - focus and intensity levels
    - love of the game and dedication to get better
    - strength and willingness to develop it
    - overall skill level and basketball IQ

    It's really unfortunate that Willie hasn't taken to the most easiest weakness to address: adding muscle and strength. Willie's ability to "guard positions 1 to 5" is nullified by stronger 3-5s who outmuscle him on the perimeter and block...and that's just the physical part (mental part = whole 'nother issue).

    Perhaps Willie is one of those lazy Sam Dalembert types, whom at the start of every season, comes into training camp mentally unfocused and slightly out of shape and gains a head of steam throughout the season. For the sake of his trade value, I'd certainly hope so.

    As much as I was against picking Willie at #6, in retrospect - spare Myles Turner and Devin Booker - this doesn't look like an awful pick. I'm always against taking specialists in the top 10...it rarely works out in the long run...but man, so far, the 2015 draft was very, very frontloaded, if not awful. Agreed that if Willie doesn't get his head in the game by the deadline, it's time to cash in.

    Sidebar: Remember how Vlade wanted to trade down for Payne and Kaminsky? One is almost out of the league, the other is 7 feet and can't shoot above 40%. Yikes. Bad draft...
    biltalent likes this.
  27. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I think it's all mental for Willie. When you look at his physical profile paired with his skillsets, theoretically, he should be one of the best big man in the league.

    On pure athleticism alone, he's good enough to become an elite shotblocker. He's got enough quickness to pick up guards and switch. His body size and wingspan should result in good rebounding. On offense, he's a great above the rim finisher. He's also added a consistent mid-range to his game. With both of these abilities combined, he should be a lethal PnR and PnP threat. He's shown flashes of being a good passing big man. He can also create shots off the dribble with his running hook.

    I'm really not sure about Willie. We'll have at least 1 more season to find out whether or not we might draft a potential replacement. I think he should excel with Fox in the PnR at least.

    If it doesn't work out this season, a change of scenery would be best for him imo. He's a talented player who's improved in various areas of his game, but it seems like there's a blockade preventing him to reach his potential.
    VF21, ppine and jcassio like this.
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Wow, we haven't even played a regular season game yet, and everyone wants to pass judgement on Willie. What a bunch of nonsense! How about we see what happens when the bell officially rings for the start of the season. Players are prone to experiment during preseason and to be honest, that's sort of what preseason is for. I trust Joerger to decide whether Willie is doing his job or not. By the way, Willie is known for being a hard worker. He's in great shape, and healthy. So there's no reason he can't reach the next level.

    Lets be clear. Willie isn't Cousins. But does anyone remember Cousins when he got here? He was a terrible defender and he shot 43% overall, which is terrible for a center. When he started to add the three ball to his game, everyone protested, saying he should stick to what he did best. No one knew he could put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. He expanded his game, but using the criteria I'm reading on this thread, we should have traded Cousins after his 2nd year.
  29. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    What a bunch of nonsense? This board wouldn't exist without people going ahead and posting their thoughts on the team and players. It's no different than you passing judgement on all of the prospective rookies who haven't played a single nba minute.
  30. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    Compaing Cousins to Willie? Come on now. Cousins was extremely talented out of Kentucky, just raw. Willie and Cousins have zero in common with each other. Willie is like a boxer who has a 5" reach advantage but refuses to throw the jab. He's wasting his freakish length and athleticism on the idea that he can carry a team offensively. You can tell just from the touch he has around the basket that he's never going to be an offensive force. That block he had in summer league came from an entirely different player.
    sono and SLAB like this.

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