Top 10 plays of the season, animated by ESPN. Wait till you see who got number 1.

#12
I did not watch the dunk video.

I think DWill should shave his head and spend the summer with Tony Allen learning the how and why of Defense in the NBA.

He has all the physical tools but lets guys like Matt Barnes have all the Cred.
He might not come back to the Kings, but I'll say that I agree that he can become a better defender. BMac made progress, so why not DWill? If he does improve his defense and continue to improve his outside shooting (he doesn't need to work on his shooting as much as his defense), he can be a serviceable 3 and D guy in the 3/4 spot with the occasional highlight dunk, a lot like how BMac is. Only in BMac's case, he needs to work on his shooting and finishing at the rim.

IMO, if DWill shows noticeable improvement on defense, he's the kind of player we need on this team -- someone who Cousins can kick out to when double teamed.


if DWill shows noticeable improvement on defense, maybe get him
if DWill shows noticeable improvement and slight improvement in his 3pt shooting, get him
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#13
I did not watch the dunk video.

I think DWill should shave his head and spend the summer with Tony Allen learning the how and why of Defense in the NBA.

He has all the physical tools but lets guys like Matt Barnes have all the Cred.
From your keyboard to God's monitor... D Will is an incredibly talented knuckle head, who could be a top NBA talent or the guy forced to play over seas because he makes NBA teams worse. It is up to him.
 
#14
He might not come back to the Kings, but I'll say that I agree that he can become a better defender. BMac made progress, so why not DWill? If he does improve his defense and continue to improve his outside shooting (he doesn't need to work on his shooting as much as his defense), he can be a serviceable 3 and D guy in the 3/4 spot with the occasional highlight dunk, a lot like how BMac is. Only in BMac's case, he needs to work on his shooting and finishing at the rim.

IMO, if DWill shows noticeable improvement on defense, he's the kind of player we need on this team -- someone who Cousins can kick out to when double teamed.


if DWill shows noticeable improvement on defense, maybe get him
if DWill shows noticeable improvement and slight improvement in his 3pt shooting, get him
He's had 4 years to do this. It's been known since he arrived in the league.

If he didn't play D in his contract year, the odds of him ever waking up are small.

In fact, in theory, we just saw his best effort, his best please sign me effort.

I don't think it was enough. Time for the Kings to move on.
 
#16
Anyone giving DWill a long-term contract is absolutely incompetent in their job.
The guy has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not give a crap about team, or defense, or working at his craft.

Idle question:
Has he EVER scored a basket with the Kings that was not set up by someone else?

Another question:
How did Boogie's steal and rumbling drive to the hoop and monster dunk over (??) NOT make this Top 10 list?
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#17
Anyone giving DWill a long-term contract is absolutely incompetent in their job.
The guy has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not give a crap about team, or defense, or working at his craft.
That's pretty unfair to him, isn't it? I know he's not a superstar and he certainly has warts as a player, but when you look at a guy who is a career .301 three-point shooter (and .273 this year under Malone/Corbin) who lifted himself to .344 in the Karl era - that kind of a jump probably takes at least a little bit of work at your craft, right? And I do think his defense is better than he gets credit for around here, particularly from the team D perspective. It seems to me that every time I'd really focus on D-Will's defense for a whole game (when I covered him on the game threads) he would either have good games, or on occasion outstanding games on team defense. He actually has a tendency to read the situation and react to it very quickly and I think some of his contributions on that end went unnoticed. I think his defensive reputation around here probably stems from his deficiencies in man defense (and yes, he has taken some plays off), but to say he doesn't care seems to be overselling his faults.

Idle question:
Has he EVER scored a basket with the Kings that was not set up by someone else?
Idle answer: Yes.

Another question:
How did Boogie's steal and rumbling drive to the hoop and monster dunk over (??) NOT make this Top 10 list?
Umm, ESPN? I was pretty unimpressed with the selection of "top-ten" plays. Maybe these were the top-ten plays that the animator decided to animate?
 
#18
He's had 4 years to do this. It's been known since he arrived in the league.

If he didn't play D in his contract year, the odds of him ever waking up are small.

In fact, in theory, we just saw his best effort, his best please sign me effort.

I don't think it was enough. Time for the Kings to move on.
IMO, my conditions are fair. The conditions for getting him are not based on whether or not I have faith that he will "wake up" in the future; these conditions are based when whether or not he actually does "wake up" by demonstrating tangible skills, rather than relying on a "he has potential" crutch or a "he-works-hard" crutch... because he hasn't lived up to it.
 
#19
That's pretty unfair to him, isn't it? I know he's not a superstar and he certainly has warts as a player, but when you look at a guy who is a career .301 three-point shooter (and .273 this year under Malone/Corbin) who lifted himself to .344 in the Karl era - that kind of a jump probably takes at least a little bit of work at your craft, right?
Nope - it's completely fair, and based on his (lack of) performance on the court.
The guy can dunk off of alley-oops from his teammates - that's it.
That is his sole contribution to the team.

Oh - about his 3 point shooting:
He was completely unguarded the second half of the year.
I'd like to see film of all of his 3 pt shots and see what % of them had anyone within 7 feet of him.

His stats were obtained in complete pageant games - exhibitions with little defense.
Anyone giving him a remotely-pricey contract based on the last half a season is a complete and utter moron.
They should ONLY be negotiating with him based off the first 3 1/2 years of his career, when some games were actually competitive and didn't let him dunk and bomb with impunity.
 
#21
Nope - it's completely fair, and based on his (lack of) performance on the court.
The guy can dunk off of alley-oops from his teammates - that's it.
That is his sole contribution to the team.

Oh - about his 3 point shooting:
He was completely unguarded the second half of the year.
I'd like to see film of all of his 3 pt shots and see what % of them had anyone within 7 feet of him.


His stats were obtained in complete pageant games - exhibitions with little defense.
Anyone giving him a remotely-pricey contract based on the last half a season is a complete and utter moron.
They should ONLY be negotiating with him based off the first 3 1/2 years of his career, when some games were actually competitive and didn't let him dunk and bomb with impunity.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202682/tracking/shots/?DateFrom=02/19/2015&DateTo=04/18/2015
He still sucks being wide open. He needs to be open the right amount. :eek::D

he's coming back. Karl loves him (and his potential) more than Omri.

cant see why...
I'm not sure about that.
In February Karl looked at players through PDA's glasses: there were "Ben, Ray, Rudy, Derrick and also Cousins and Casspi", now it's "Ben, Ray, Rudy, Derrick Williams, Cuz and Omri"
Williams gets season-high with efficient play, and he wasn't even mentioned. While Omri was talked about extensively. Of course, if Omri doesn't promise to average 6 apg, he might have to go somewhere else. :p
 
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#22
That's pretty unfair to him, isn't it? I know he's not a superstar and he certainly has warts as a player, but when you look at a guy who is a career .301 three-point shooter (and .273 this year under Malone/Corbin) who lifted himself to .344 in the Karl era - that kind of a jump probably takes at least a little bit of work at your craft, right? And I do think his defense is better than he gets credit for around here, particularly from the team D perspective. It seems to me that every time I'd really focus on D-Will's defense for a whole game (when I covered him on the game threads) he would either have good games, or on occasion outstanding games on team defense. He actually has a tendency to read the situation and react to it very quickly and I think some of his contributions on that end went unnoticed. I think his defensive reputation around here probably stems from his deficiencies in man defense (and yes, he has taken some plays off), but to say he doesn't care seems to be overselling his faults.



Idle answer: Yes.



Umm, ESPN? I was pretty unimpressed with the selection of "top-ten" plays. Maybe these were the top-ten plays that the animator decided to animate?
Completely agree. I think part of the "problem" on defense is also that he tends not to challenge shots once someone gets near the rim. His rotations are decent but once someone gets past him he's typically not willing to challenge hard and looks to avoid fouling instead. The other thing of course is that he's usually in an undersized match up and often has to front his man. Once his man catches there's not much he can do to challenge the shot.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#23
Anyone giving DWill a long-term contract is absolutely incompetent in their job.
The guy has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not give a crap about team, or defense, or working at his craft.

Idle question:
Has he EVER scored a basket with the Kings that was not set up by someone else?

Another question:
How did Boogie's steal and rumbling drive to the hoop and monster dunk over (??) NOT make this Top 10 list?
I tend to disagree on that, I am no expert on the mind or anything but to me Derrick seems like a guy who struggles with his own confidence (which leads him to being tentative at both ends) rather than a guy who doesn't care. To me Derrick is different in that regard to say Marcus Thornton in his last few season's with the Kings where as soon as his chucking was taken away you could virtually see he quit.

Every game this year where Derrick got a early dunk or something nice for him (something went right) he could turn that into a mega quarter and sometimes a mega game. He also unlike MT once his role got taken away (by Rudy Gay than by Casspi) never really quit like Marcus did.

I think Derrick and Ben are both similar in that regard they are the ultimate confidence players (unlike say Cousins who no matter what still wants the ball to do what he does) and cause of that a lot of the time something going wrong can literally crumble them just like a open transition dunk can make them look godly for periods.
 
#24
mmm, I will grant you that DWill plays better if he gets fired up over a good play he has made. Who doesn't play better when they are confident or 'feeling it'? I think he suffers from the same situation as Ben does, in fact. Freakishly athletic players who, in high school and college, could get by, even shine, on just that, athleticism. They never had to work hard at the nuances of the game, their athletic gifts were enough to carry the day in fine fashion. Enter the NBA and it's a bit different story, freakish athletes are the norm. To his credit, Ben has worked hard on his game, has become a much better defender and made adjustments. It appears that he has studied the game and understands it better, and will continue to do so. He has a drive and will to improve that leads me to believe that he both sees the need to up his understanding of the game to do so and is willing to put in the work. DWill, for all his athletic prowess, does not seem, yet, to 'get' this. With his gifts, he could be a superior defender, but that would require him to 'know' where opposing players will potentially be on the floor, his offense would come easier if it didn't depend, solely, on being more athletic or quicker than his man. For him to be effective, he needs to add brains to his game.
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#25
mmm, I will grant you that DWill plays better if he gets fired up over a good play he has made. Who doesn't play better when they are confident or 'feeling it'? I think he suffers from the same situation as Ben does, in fact. Freakishly athletic players who, in high school and college, could get by, even shine, on just that, athleticism. They never had to work hard at the nuances of the game, their athletic gifts were enough to carry the day in fine fashion. Enter the NBA and it's a bit different story, freakish athletes are the norm. To his credit, Ben has worked hard on his game, has become a much better defender and made adjustments. It appears that he has studied the game and understands it better, and will continue to do so. He has a drive and will to improve that leads me to believe that he both sees the need to up his understanding of the game to do so and is willing to put in the work. DWill, for all his athletic prowess, does not seem, yet, to 'get' this. With his gifts, he could be a superior defender, but that would require him to 'know' where opposing players will potentially be on the floor, his offense would come easier if it didn't depend, solely, on being more athletic or quicker than his man. For him to be effective, he needs to add brains to his game.
It's not like he doesn't work. His 3pt shot has improved greatly. Unfortunately, he still needs to work on defense and rebounding. However, he needs to be a system guy and he hasn't had a stable system D team.
 
#26
Why is getting open dunks or leaking out in transition always looked down upon on this board? Is it a bad thing to get easy baskets? After all 2points are 2 points.
To me this is an extremely valuable role player skill. You need to have some talent to move without the ball to get open, you need to time your cuts to the basket and you need to be quick enough to outrun your man in transition.
Not every player on a team needs to be able to create his own shot. There are plenty of guys that made a career out of being at the right place at the right time to catch and finish.
D-Will is a candidate for a low-ball-offer, cause there won't be many teams that will offer him a contract. If he is paired with a competent PG he can be a valuable bench piece. And if you lock him up with a short term deal for a minimum salary he is a potential low risk high reward type player.
Yes he needs to improve his defense and still needs to work on his 3pt shot.
 
#27
I don't think, anyone objects to him scoring around the cup, since it's a high efficiency shot.
But it's bad, when it's your PF, who is always leaking out. He is a bad defender and rebounder. Reggie has better Ast% than Williams, Ray Mccallum has better o.reb%.
It's not clear, if he's willing to settle for vetmin. For that price he should be retained. Where most negativity comes from is the fact, that if Kings sign a good FA, it will come with rescinding Derrick's cap hold and Bird rights with it, so Kings will have to choose between him and Omri, if both would command non-min salaries. To most here choice is obvious, while FO preferences seem murky at this point.
 
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