Revisiting DMC - again

Discussion in 'NBA' started by The Hammer, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    I can see that happening but thinking of him compared to DMC, you can see how DMC was shooting himself in the foot with his body language.

    I was thinking about this recently. The main issue was that he was constantly humiliating the refs with his antics. At a certain point, it's just basic human respect that you don't do that. The constant head rolls. The constant eye rolls. No other player does that as much as DMC. It wasn't the big flare ups, per se. It was the incessant little humiliations he kept sending the refs way. At a certain point it is just too much negativity, and it does bring the team down, no matter how great a guy you are in every other aspect of your life both on and off the court. This was a personal hurdle with authority figures that he has not overcome yet, and apparently wasn't willing to.

    Sorry, didn't mean to make this all about DMC, but seeing Papa out there, you just know that none of that will ever happen, even if he gets a little swagger. That is not a small thing.

    This was my epiphany about Cousins: You can't expect to be successful in this league if you are constantly humiliating the refs publicly.
  2. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Individually Cousins is a pretty successful NBA player. Wether his antics are the reason he isn't successful so far in terms of wins and losses is a question noone can really answer, although it's reasonable to assume, that his antics are only a very small part of what's holding him back - his individual style of play, his former teammates, coaches and franchise also need to be considered.
    But ultimately it makes no sense at all to compare Papa with DMC. DMC is on a different planet than Papa when it comes to basketball talent. He plays a different style of basketball and has embraced a different role.
    Papa can be a successful NBA player (just like many other rookies), but so far I would guess his path to success will follow a completely different path than DMC's.
    DMC tries and is able to make difficult things look easy. Papa looks more like a guy, who tries to do the easy things as good as possible.
    This might be a good thing for a rookie, but it also could be a hint, that he isn't excactly what you call a franchise player moving forward and thathe is more that like a solid to good complimentary player.
    Somehow get your hands on a creative, scoring guard with star potential and than let this whole young team groom for 3-4 years and we will finally know, what we have in the kids.

    I couldn't care less about mindset, on court outbursts or nastyness. All I really care about is talent.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  3. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I understand that talent wins in this league, however, if that talent doesn't mesh with the team and the direction you as a franchise are looking to go towards, what's it all for then really? Cool stats?
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  4. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    The rug was pulled from under us, at no point was our direction as a franchise not tied to Demarcus.

    All this wanting to go in a different direction and building character is drivel, peddled simply to cover complete and utter mismanagement.

    There is no extensive pool of evidence that Demarcus didn't mesh with the team, yeah he could be intense but he loved the team, stuck out for the guys and went to war with them nightly.

    Vlade drafts well and that is the silver lining here as George looks able to be a starting 5, but that Cousins trade was (a) poorly timed, (b) inadequately managed, (c) woefully justified to this day, adding another string to the bow of our weak and spineless management.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2017
  5. NowImLost

    NowImLost Active Member

    Demarcus' body language and emotional expressions were detrimental to team morale and court chemistry, momentum and player energy. But we all know this, why should I remind everyone.
    I do not want to derail the thread and make it into a Cousins bashing zone, proceed with Papa G subject matter.
  6. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Fixed it for you. He wasn't the constant pariah some seem hell-bent on making him out to be.
  7. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Every star player has a sword that some will hold him to.

    Russell chased out KD and was overbearing on offense, Lebron meddles in team business too much by playing the media.

    These are facts which remain but arent a huge issue because at the end of the day both are perceived as winners.

    Demarcus was getting to that point here. More and more the national media were coming to the realization of the truth, that it was through sheer mismanagement and instability as a franchise which lead to us never being able to build a winning franchise around the best big man in the league.

    These facts still remain, though the glory of it is management has shifted the goal posts by trading demarcus and in doing so, have led us to a few more losing seasons built around player development, so expectations aren't that we will win for awhile. The hope is that we dont shoot ourselves in the foot through ineptness around the time we start winning when it really counts but who knows, we are the kings.
  8. Nightfall

    Nightfall Active Member

    Regarding Cousins. PapaG did an interview on Greek Tv : http://nba.sport24.gr/article/4610368/papagiannis-gi-auto-efuga-apo-ton-olumpiako (in greek).
    It was broadcasted 9 days ago but it could also be shortly before the trade. Anyway he said the following about DMC :

    "He is a great teammate . People hear a lot, most of them are not true. Great talent. Cousins cares about all of us, he wants the team to always win. There hasn't been a single day were he won't ask how you are doing. He has invited me to his house and we've watched movies together."
  9. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Cousins can act and say all the right things as it pertains to going to war with his guys. We know what he is all about. He doesn't hide his true colors. That said, that doesn't necessarily translate to him meshing with his guys on the court. No one will dispute that the way the trade went down was comical and disgraceful. But, now that it's done and over with, it's time to move forward and put Boogie in our rearview mirror and start hoping we string together another nice draft in June.
  10. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    So why did they want to trade him? No reason?

    Not becoming perimeter oriented? Not 200 mil for a plodder whose feet can give out? Not a more well balanced team in their minds with three picks (Buddy/own pick) and possibly tanking to top 5 next year?

    What logistic reasons do you think he was traded for that had nothing to do with "culture"? Assuming they are an organization headed by businessmen who aren't in the business for making their team worse for no reason
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
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  11. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    no concrete or justifiable reasons have been given to date and the return we got showcases a botched, swiftly put together deal thrown together around a jump shooting rookie who reminds our owner of his sweetheart warriors who he had fawning over since the draft.

    Points of interest:

    - Vivek not having the balls to pony up and sign the man to his extension when he had more then earnt it. Will be interesting to see what happens when our young, mature and it comes time to pay to retain talent. Vivek is far from rich when it comes to NBA standards

    - the FO peddling this whole character matters drive, trying to leverage what the national narrative was around Demarcus but coming across as non genuine, fake and amateurish
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  12. NowImLost

    NowImLost Active Member

    You blind yourself.

    Cousins is a crybaby and has zero mental fortitude. He had ZERO leadership skills.

    That does not earn you 200+million extension. I don't care how good Cousins was, the team wasn't WINNING. We've already read and gone over the causal factors that may or may not have contributed to the losing seasons, but Cousins at the helm here was NOT WORKING.

    You don't "MAN UP" and pay some crybaby 200+million because he's the 'best' big in the league.

    EMPTY.
    STATS.
    ZERO.
    LEADERSHIP.
    QUALITIES.

    NOT. A. LEADER.

    LEADERS GET PAID 200+MILLION.

    NOT CRY BABIES.
  13. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I would suggest to you that trading Cousins took more balls than signing him to a 220 million dollar five year contract. Had he done so, few on this forum would have complained, and there would have been very little explaining to do. Yes, he handled the trade poorly, but the why is different than the how. You don't have to buy either, but I think the why is self evident. From the beginning, Vlade wanted to build a team similar to the team he played on in Sacramento, and he didn't think that Cousins was a good fit on a team like that. You can argue that he was wrong, but it was his decision to make, and he finally got permission to make it.

    How that all turns out remains to be seen, and, we may not know for couple of years. But so far, the team seems to have fun playing together, and there doesn't seem to be any quit in them. Beyond that, I think you can see some future potential there. Add a couple of good draft picks, and a key freeagent signing or two, and this team might surprise some people in the next couple of seasons. This next summer may be one of the most important summers for the Kings in a long time. I say that because the direction is different, and probably more reality based. The rebuild should have started a few years ago.
  14. NowImLost

    NowImLost Active Member

    Thank you.
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  15. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    you do though.

    you are putting way too much stock in this whole leadership piece. From a basketball perspective you lock him in and stay the course. The fault is not that Demarcus didnt dam well lead us to the playoffs, the fault is that our leadership couldnt lead themselves to build a dam team around him.

    That is the failure here. Trading demarcus was more an admission that hey we are unskilled and incapable of building a team around a great big man so lets trade him and condem ourselves to what we can actually get away with, losing under the notion of player development and youth.
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  16. NowImLost

    NowImLost Active Member

    I'm putting stock into leadership because that's what LEADERSHIP MEANS. You LEAD other players and make them BETTER while also being conscientious about your ATTITUDE because attitude reflects LEADERSHIP. The front office KNEW they couldn't build around him because Cousins wasn't allowing himself in even being CAPABLE of being BUILT AROUND.

    Unless you meaning LEADING the leagues in technical fouls? How do you have the best player on the team acting like THAT. The most talented dude on the team acting like he's some ALL-TIME great when he's not even trying to attempt to CONTROL his EMOTIONS because everyone KNOWS it's DETRIMENTAL to TEAM COURT CHEMISTRY AND MOMENTUM. Millions of dollars and you can't even have the decency to hire Tony Robbins to help you unlock your inner zen?

    MAN, GET OUT OF HERE.
    Of course the front office failed to build around him. The organization and franchise has been unstable for his entire career. Might as well start anew and fresh because this team wasn't going to win with Cousins at the helm. I don't care about his talent, I don't care about his stats, I don't care if he was the best big in the league, I don't care about ANY OF THAT. I care about KINGS BASKETBALL and Cousins isn't apart of the vision anymore.
    LA King Fan II likes this.
  17. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    This season I was on board with trading Boogie. Not because I wanted him traded but because (a) I didn't see a path forward for the Kings with him and (b) I thought he'd bring back a haul.

    As for (a) that wasn't Cousins fault. The Kings had drafted poorly since picking him (WCS was benched at the time and none of the rookies were getting NBA minutes outside of a bit of PT for Malachi), Rudy seemed poised to leave, the Kings didn't have any other impact players, both PGs were mediocre AND about to be free agents, and the Kings were poised to lose their pick to Chicago this year as well as their 2019 pick to Philly. How could they build a winning team?

    As for (b) I envisioned looting the Celtics for the two Nets picks (this year's pick swap and next year's outright pick) and a young player or two to boot. Turns out the C's had no interest. Neither did a number of other teams. The Lakers wouldn't part with Ingram. And it came out today that Rob Hennigan turned down a deal for Vucevic and Fournier or the Magic draft pick.

    Damn. That was the market for an all-star center and maybe the most talented big man in the NBA?

    Apparently other teams reached the same conclusion that the Kings finally did - the juice wasn't worth the squeeze with Cousins.

    I think Vlade & Vivek talked extension with DMC. They likely asked him to work on channeling his emotion in a positive way, to be a better leader and more positive face of the franchise. I know I would have. But then there was the incident with Furillo, more technicals, screaming at fans etc. I think they just decided they couldn't continue to hitch their wagon to such a mercurial star player. Couldn't continue to walk on eggshells and bend things to his will.

    They could well be wrong but I get it. I didn't immediately after the trade. I was dumbfounded. I couldn't believe that was all they got for him. Not even a handful of magic beans? Sheesh.

    It took me watching him in another uniform. I still love watching Cousins play. I'll still root for him. But I'm honestly glad I don't have to watch him complain after a call instead of getting back on defense. Or cussing out fans. I'm glad I don't have to make excuses for his behavior.

    Time will tell. But at least I see a possible path forward now. And I'm surprised that it's the case but honestly the team is easier for me to root for now.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  18. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Both the Lakers and the Magic GM were fired for a reason.
    Trading for DMC would have meant altering their playstyle completely mid season for the Celtics, while they were playing really good basketball.
    Not that big of a suprise, they were reluctant to do that. In the offseason with a full training camp to figure out ways how to play their style of basketball and still featuring DMC, it might have been a different thing.
    Pelicans pretty much had nothing to lose - Playoffs were a longshot, their assets were mediocre at best. The trade was an absolute no brainer for Demps, or he would have been the next GM without a job.
    To some extent it's true that teams built around dominant bigs, seem to have troubles in todays NBA. Ultimately we will know, how high Cousins value really is, if he decides to test FA after next season. I wonder which teams would be interested.
    Btw. from my point of view Cousins behaviour in NOLA was all right. He hustled, played D and did his best to keep up with the pace.
  19. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Cite that there was any quit in the team before the All-Star break? Didn't the Kings, like, lead the league in games decided by six points or less, prior to the trade?
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  20. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    He was able to play without the weight of the franchise on his shoulders. He wasn't playing in front of a commentator who took every opportunity to criticize, belittle or demean him (while pretending it was just honest criticism). He had someone on the floor with him who can play at his level.

    Basically, DMC finally knows what it feels like to not be the only hope for a franchise.
  21. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    o.

    Far, far from the way it is. Such a view certainly compromises one's ability to enjoy our Kings.
  22. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Don't agree. I firmly believe our dear Cuz bears the greatest responsibility for our tepid record during his years. It is a shame but never less true that his attitude and demeanor carried the day in the wrong direction. I wish him well and know that he could continue to improve and enjoy the success that his talent could hep produce. In the meantime I am happy he has moved on and Idon't have to be his fan.
  23. Brick Wall

    Brick Wall Member

    These are subjective statements, they are not objectively true, despite the fact that you only presented one of them as being an opinion.
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  24. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Sorry. Those are my strongly held opinions. Based on a great deal of objective watching. If my objectivity had led me to a different opinion I would have told you. Cuz was flawed all those years and dealing with his flaws some better in his last year. He may get there yet. I'm here now and happy watching our apprentices.
  25. jpsls

    jpsls Active Member

    What's the highest win total Kings have posted with Cousins? People talk about making the playoffs with Cousins, but the Kings were never close to making the playoffs with him as the centerpiece.
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  26. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    That is a statement which ignores factors like a coach being fired while he was recuperating from an illness, or him getting traded when the team was a game and a half out, with the easiest remaining schedule of any of the teams in contention.
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  27. jpsls

    jpsls Active Member

    Team was a game and a half out, but only because the 8th seed was pathetic at the time. They were only in contention because of a playoff alignment, not because they were a good team.
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  28. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    So what? That's just you moving the goalposts, so that you can continue to get your #HotTaeks off.

    "The Kings were never in contention for the playoffs when Cousins was here!"
    "Yes, they were."
    "Well, that's just because the eighth seed wasn't ****, anyway!

    Never mind the fact that the Kings were in contention last season, until the entire team quit on Karl around the All-Star break, after they realized that he wasn't going to get fired.
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  29. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    I'm not exactly sure that is a point that falls to the team's credit: the idea that they were good enough to make the playoffs in spite of their coach, but then just stopped trying because they didn't like the coach. In fact, it's a point that might as easily be taken up by Cousins detractors, who rarely if ever argue against Cousins' talent but usually focus on issues related to effort and chemistry.
  30. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    I didn't say it did; that's not the point of why I brought it up.

    I beg to differ. To me, that argument only makes sense if you believe that the rest of the team wanted to carry on and fight for the playoffs, and Cousins was the only one who said "**** it," and he dragged them down with him. And I don't believe that.
    SLAB likes this.

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