Rajon Rondo

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#1
There is a very good article on Rondo over on Sactownroyalty.com. It is titled "Film Analysis: Rajon Rondo" Here is an excerpt:

"Brad Steven's Celtics offense suited Rondo surprisingly well and relied on lots of guard play and high pick and rolls. Surrounded by an entire team of average players he posted 10.8 assists a game in 22 games. In Dallas the ball was taken out of his hands and he average only 6.5."

Link to Article---> http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/9/25/9396691/film-analysis-rajon-rondo
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
What's amazing is that Dallas and Carlisle didnt adjust to what Rondo does best.....why acquire him then? Our PG tandem is something to be excited about.
Good question. Why? After the fact, it doesn't make any sense. Carlisle likes to call plays from the sideline. He's a very controlling coach. Which makes it a bad fit for Rondo from the get go. When you add in that Rondo was still in recovery mode, it was the worst of all worlds for him. From Dallas point of view, it appears that the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. Just a bad fit for both parties.
 
#5
Rondo definitely could be a great fit for a George Karl offense. He's smart, a great playmaker and knows how to attack a defense. And he's a great rebounder which is a big help when running small, 2 PG lineups.

But there ARE causes for concern. Rondo likes s walk-it-up half court game and Karl wants to run. Karl expects his PGs to hit 3's and that's obviously not Rajon's forte.

His free throw shooting is also a big concern because it looked to me that he got very tentative about driving to the hoop in part because his FT shooting took such a dive.

To me Rondo will be the barometer for the Kings season. If he has a big comeback then I think the Kings are a playoff team. If not, it's likely another trip to the lottery.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#6
Just saying, but my one concern with Rondo is when you have a top 2nd tier ISO wing and a dominant, creative big man, ball dominant guards are the last thing you want in your offense. Cousins is better when he has the ball in his hands early, not with a few seconds on the clock. You don't typically need a PG getting 10 plus assists when you the offensive core the Kings do, in fact, you'd be better off with someone playing more off the ball and defending. The one PG that worked since Cousins has been here has been Collison and his whopping 5 apg. There is a reason for that.
 
#8
Just saying, but my one concern with Rondo is when you have a top 2nd tier ISO wing and a dominant, creative big man, ball dominant guards are the last thing you want in your offense. Cousins is better when he has the ball in his hands early, not with a few seconds on the clock. You don't typically need a PG getting 10 plus assists when you the offensive core the Kings do, in fact, you'd be better off with someone playing more off the ball and defending. The one PG that worked since Cousins has been here has been Collison and his whopping 5 apg. There is a reason for that.
The PGs before Collison were all in that range anyway.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#9
I won't gloat if he fails, and I'll happily eat crow if he succeeds, I'm a Kings fan first and foremost.

Alls I know, is he wasn't loves by Boston fans towards the end. They saw him as a stat padder who didn't give a **** about D. The Celtics got better when he was traded (although there is more to it than a claim of addition by subtraction, I'll admit that), and the Mavs became much, much worse.

OTOH: Karl and Rondo seem like a great coach/pg fit. Rondo will have a lot of freedom. Way more than he did in Dallas. He also has way better options than he did in Boston.... So it could work.

Aside from some depth issues at PG (which can be remedied with a trade), I don't think Rondo failing hurts us as much as Rondo succeeding could help us. So there's that. It was a good gamble to make.

I dunno. I see him as a three legged horse in the Kentucky derby. I want to root for him, but I'm keeping my expectations low.
 
#10
I am happy to have Rondo because if it works (big if, but nonetheless), we have a three headed monster with Cousins, Rudy, and Rondo. That's a good core. If it doesn't work, we have Collison waiting in the wings and we simply let Rondo leave at the end of the season. The one thing that we have going for us is this: Rajon Rondo needs the Kings more than the Kings need Rajon Rondo. His career is at a fork in the road. Option A: rekindle some of that lost magic and play 100% all of the time or Option B: take the easy way out and be out of the league in the next 2-3 years.

Regardless of what option he chooses, the truth is he needs us and we may very well be the only team in the NBA who would even take him on. Is a top tier team going to want him after he almost destroyed the Mavs single-handedly? Unlikely. I have a feeling we will see a hard working Rajon Rondo because he is backed into a corner now and I don't think he wants out of the league.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#11
I said it back when the Kings signed Rondo and I will say it again, I see him using the Kings to get that last big contract so I think he will keep a even head and play like he is capable and then proceed to sign with another team.
 
#13
I said it back when the Kings signed Rondo and I will say it again, I see him using the Kings to get that last big contract so I think he will keep a even head and play like he is capable and then proceed to sign with another team.
If the Kings are winning. Coach Karl lets Rondo play his game. Cousins is the best Big in the NBA. The rest of the team is playing well. Why does he leave? Money is going to be similar.
 
#14
Just saying, but my one concern with Rondo is when you have a top 2nd tier ISO wing and a dominant, creative big man, ball dominant guards are the last thing you want in your offense. Cousins is better when he has the ball in his hands early, not with a few seconds on the clock. You don't typically need a PG getting 10 plus assists when you the offensive core the Kings do, in fact, you'd be better off with someone playing more off the ball and defending. The one PG that worked since Cousins has been here has been Collison and his whopping 5 apg. There is a reason for that.
Rondo was at 10+ assists per game in Boston last year. He passes the ball. Boogie and Rudy are going to benefit because say what you will, but when Rondo drives you have to send a player to guard him, sometimes two. He is also a good rebounder for his size.

I think many times we focus to much on what a player can't do, instead of what a player can do.
 
#15
I don't expect Rondo to play poorly, but I expect Collison to step up and become the starter by the end of the year. He HAS to be upset that he got the starting spot taken.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#16
If the Kings are winning. Coach Karl lets Rondo play his game. Cousins is the best Big in the NBA. The rest of the team is playing well. Why does he leave? Money is going to be similar.
Nobody knows how he is going to fit with Cousins and company so I'll let the players do the talking, deep down I still think he is a goner but that's just my opinion.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#17
There is a very good article on Rondo over on Sactownroyalty.com. It is titled "Film Analysis: Rajon Rondo" Here is an excerpt:

"Brad Steven's Celtics offense suited Rondo surprisingly well and relied on lots of guard play and high pick and rolls. Surrounded by an entire team of average players he posted 10.8 assists a game in 22 games. In Dallas the ball was taken out of his hands and he average only 6.5."

Link to Article---> http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/9/25/9396691/film-analysis-rajon-rondo
Didn't Vasquez on a entire team of average players (Davis still blossoming) do the exact same thing while losing games/not playing defense and dominating the ball in NO? Most solid pass first PG's on a bad team that gets up and down the floor could average 8-10 assists (Kendell Marshall on the Lakers had 8.8 in 29mins of play) if they don't have to do anything else.

I don't really know what to think of Rondo cause it's hard to read if he's gone/coming back from injury and his stats really are hard to interrupt since he has not helped any team since the big 3 left town in Boston.

I keep seeing people bring up his stats from Boston/Dallas but the reality is he made both teams worse when he was there regardless of assist numbers/defensive rating and all the other analytical stats.

I am however glad we took a 1 year gamble on him cause it could really work and I could see us pulling a deal if he does stink it up where we get a decent piece (role player), it's a win win situation to me.
 
#18
Didn't Vasquez on a entire team of average players (Davis still blossoming) do the exact same thing while losing games/not playing defense and dominating the ball in NO? Most solid pass first PG's on a bad team that gets up and down the floor could average 8-10 assists (Kendell Marshall on the Lakers had 8.8 in 29mins of play) if they don't have to do anything else.

I don't really know what to think of Rondo cause it's hard to read if he's gone/coming back from injury and his stats really are hard to interrupt since he has not helped any team since the big 3 left town in Boston.

I keep seeing people bring up his stats from Boston/Dallas but the reality is he made both teams worse when he was there regardless of assist numbers/defensive rating and all the other analytical stats.

I am however glad we took a 1 year gamble on him cause it could really work and I could see us pulling a deal if he does stink it up where we get a decent piece (role player), it's a win win situation to me.

I find myself defending Rajon Rondo. Having not been a Celtics fan or followed Rondo closely I am surprised by it. IMO he is being unfairly judged. Here is the timeline as I see it:

Was an All Star - Pre 2013
Injured the ACL - Jan 2013
New coach with the C's
Averaged 10+ assists in Boston coming back after ACL
Traded mid season to Dallas
Does not mesh with Carlisle's play calling style or the team accustomed to it
During a Playoff game while defending James Harden it all comes to a head.

I did not follow the Celtics or even the Mavericks until the playoffs so I did not see a lot of Rondo. I did watch the Playoffs. IMO the single factor that sunk the Mavericks Playoff hopes THE MOST was losing Chandler Parsons in Game 1. Then in Game 2 Rondo got in early foul trouble against Harden. I watched this game and can tell you Carlisle dressed Rondo down in front of everyone. Rondo may have picked up silly fouls and he may not have followed Carlisle's game plan. But IMO Carlisle conceded the series right there by alienating Rondo.

I get hunches. My hunch here is that Rondo is going to play well with the Kings. I don't expect things to always be rosy with the Kings this season.

I have faith in Vlade and the Kings Front Office to handle whatever comes up.

GO KINGS
 
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#19
Oh and one more thing. In the feud between Rondo and Carlisle someone needed to be the wiser more mature person. I would expect this to be the Coach. Just like I did with Nellie and Webber. Just like I did with Cousins and Westphal. And just like I do with this group of Kings. Are you listening Coach Karl?
 
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#20
Just saying, but my one concern with Rondo is when you have a top 2nd tier ISO wing and a dominant, creative big man, ball dominant guards are the last thing you want in your offense. Cousins is better when he has the ball in his hands early, not with a few seconds on the clock. You don't typically need a PG getting 10 plus assists when you the offensive core the Kings do, in fact, you'd be better off with someone playing more off the ball and defending. The one PG that worked since Cousins has been here has been Collison and his whopping 5 apg. There is a reason for that.
Like, say, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett 7 years ago?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#22
Rondo from 7 years ago isn't walking through that door.
Some of you are like Mavs fans who on there forums are bring up stats from last year thinking DWill will magically be DWill again.
A lot of people have gotten rather silly about what Rondo has supposedly lost. 2007 Rondo was just a minor roleplayer. Good one, but he was 21 years old and averaged 10.6pts 5.1ast 1.7stl. That's hardly some unachievable peak.

I'll be watching him closely this preseason to see how he moves, but he was hardly dragging around a dead leg last year. I just don't think he wanted to play, not for a losing team, not for Carlisle under those rules. As much as anything I suspect he just needs the fire relit, and a carrot held out in front of him.
 
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#23
Like, say, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett 7 years ago?

Nope, unless you remember the same KG I do. I remember a KG that willingly took a back seat role and never shot more than 14 times a game in any one year he had in Boston. He averaged around 12 shots a game during his stay in Boston and that was while being used as a spot shooter quite a bit. I'd rather not see Cousins make the major adjustment if it comes to that, it needs to be the other guy this time.
 
#24
A lot of people have gotten rather silly about what rondo has supposedly lost. 2007 Rondo was just a minor roleplayer. Good one, but he was 21 years odl and averaged 10.6pts 5.1ast 1.7stl. That's hardly some unachievable peak.

I'll be watching him closely this preseason to see how he moves, but he was hardly dragging around a dead leg last year. I just don't think he wanted to play, not for a losing team, not for Carlisle under those rules. As much as anything I suspect he just needs the fire relit, and a carrot held out in front of him.

And this is kind of my point, the more Rondo was featured as a primary ball handler, and racked up the assists, the more the C's chances of winning a ring dissipated. Now, obviously it's not that simple and there were circumstances that led to the necessity of him playing that way, but with the Kings you probably want that Rondo from the start of his career, not last year or the 5 or 6 years previous to that.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
And this is kind of my point, the more Rondo was featured as a primary ball handler, and racked up the assists, the more the C's chances of winning a ring dissipated. Now, obviously it's not that simple and there were circumstances that led to the necessity of him playing that way, but with the Kings you probably want that Rondo from the start of his career, not last year or the 5 or 6 years previous to that.
I think that's misreading the situation.

The real dynamic was the more the Big Three aged, the more they lost the ability to create on their own, the more the C's chances of winning a ring dissipated. Rondo didn't make them lose. The decline of all of the better players on the roster around him made them lose. He was just left exposed out there like the granite heart of an eroded sandstone mountain. As a #4 it was championship. By the time he was a #1 it was lottery. We are hoping for him to be the #3 here.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#27
That's been one of the big knocks on Rick Carlisle. He never adjusts to the players. They're supposed to adjust to him.
Rick must be doing something right since he's one of 4-5 coaches in the NBA with a ring and everywhere he's had playoff success. Rick is EASILY one of the elite coaches in the NBA.
 
#28
Didn't Vasquez on a entire team of average players (Davis still blossoming) do the exact same thing while losing games/not playing defense and dominating the ball in NO? Most solid pass first PG's on a bad team that gets up and down the floor could average 8-10 assists (Kendell Marshall on the Lakers had 8.8 in 29mins of play) if they don't have to do anything else.
For me it's surprising to see, that people try to judge Rondo by using stats. In my opinion he is one of the few players, where stats only tell a small part of the story.
Rondo is not the "typical solid pass first PG". His game in not close to Vasquez or Marshall. His game is not close to people like Tyreke, Rose or Westbrook as athletic, scoring PG's either. His game is not centered around driving and dishing or playing 2 man pick&roll.
Rondo uses these tools, but his main strength is the way he is able to orchestrate the half court offense, by calling screens and cuts, using missmatches and forcing switches.
Most of his assists are simple passes that complete a movement performed by the whole team.
That's why he never clicked with Carlisle. Rondo needs to call out plays and direct traffic himself, to play his game. and when you call every play from the sideline, Rondo's strength is taken away and he turns into an average PG without a solid jumpshot. By playing his game he holds the ball over extended periods of time. That's indeed his main weakness, that needs to be adressed by Karl, if Rondo is supposed to coexists with a ball dominant, creative player like DMC.
But I think Rondo is smart enough to know, that DMC is not a mere finisher and he has to treat him differently than Chandler or Zeller.
Rudy (and Willie) is tailored perfectly to play with Rondo.
And from my point of view the concerns regarding his defense are way overblown. Last season our second PG was Andre Miller. You won't tell me, that Rondo is on the same level defensively. So even if we get the washed up post ACL Rondo some people try to make him, it's hard to believe, that our defense from the PG spot hasn't improved.
And with Collison as an aggressive on ball defender, that really gets into his opponent the situation in SAC is not that different to Boston, where Rondo played the passing lanes and Bradley applied pressure to the opposing primary ballhandler. Ben is able to guard big, ahtletic PG's too. So even if Rondo is a defensive liability, which I believe he isn't, we should be able to hide him quite a bit. Dallas with Monta wasn't able to do this.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#29
For me it's surprising to see, that people try to judge Rondo by using stats. In my opinion he is one of the few players, where stats only tell a small part of the story.
Rondo is not the "typical solid pass first PG". His game in not close to Vasquez or Marshall. His game is not close to people like Tyreke, Rose or Westbrook as athletic, scoring PG's either. His game is not centered around driving and dishing or playing 2 man pick&roll.
Rondo uses these tools, but his main strength is the way he is able to orchestrate the half court offense, by calling screens and cuts, using missmatches and forcing switches.
Most of his assists are simple passes that complete a movement performed by the whole team.
.
I'm not judging Rondo using stats AT ALL my whole point was you couldn't judge him using stats because when I watched him his impact was so limited in the actual game. My whole issue was the ''well he averaged 10apg on a team with average players'' (because to me that meant literally nothing when they were not a competitive team with him doing that). I''am all in on Rondo being here (I want him to play well here) and yes he is a massive upgrade over Ray and Andre (sadly).

I actually think Cousins having the ball a bit less (and Rondo having it on those possessions instead) where he can get some easy putbacks/ finishes around the rim to get him going is the best thing for everyone. That way Cousins does not have to work as hard on offense and he can let a bit of offense come to him rather than forcing all the time which I'm sure Rondo can accommodate him with.
 
#30
I'm not judging Rondo using stats AT ALL my whole point was you couldn't judge him using stats because when I watched him his impact was so limited in the actual game. My whole issue was the ''well he averaged 10apg on a team with average players'' (because to me that meant literally nothing when they were not a competitive team with him doing that). I''am all in on Rondo being here (I want him to play well here) and yes he is a massive upgrade over Ray and Andre (sadly).

I actually think Cousins having the ball a bit less (and Rondo having it on those possessions instead) where he can get some easy putbacks/ finishes around the rim to get him going is the best thing for everyone. That way Cousins does not have to work as hard on offense and he can let a bit of offense come to him rather than forcing all the time which I'm sure Rondo can accommodate him with.
Sorry I obviously missed your point.
But he didn't make the Celtics worse in my opinion. I followed the Celtics losely last season and the moment Rondo signed in SAC started to watch most of his games with the Celtics and Mavericks (boring Summer time with no NBA basketball). The roster that made a run during the end of the season, had quite a few key players, who didn't wear a Celtics game uniform, when Rondo still played in Boston - IT, Crowder, Thornton, Smart (due to injury), Jerebko.
Rondo paired with a point forward like Turner and without enough floor spacing wasn't the sole reason the Celtics had no success in the beginning of the season.
They started to get better, after they retinkered most of their roster.
 
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