Joerger's future with the Kings

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Jan 4, 2018.

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Should the Kings retain Joerger?

  1. YES!

    87.0%
  2. NO!

    13.0%
  1. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Someone commented in another thread that a lot (or majority) of posters are calling for Joerger's head. So, let's see if it's borne out by my first poll of 2018.
  2. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Feel free to expand on your responses. I just wanted the poll itself to be nice and clean...Yes or No. Personally, I think Joerger is doing the best he can with a roster that (to quote CarmichaelDave) has 1 or 2 players AT BEST that would start on any other team in the NBA. He is not the problem. Personally, I think the perception of fans is the problem. We knew going into this season that it was going to be a learning year. With a slew of rookies, there's no way we should have expected anything more.

    I love this team. I love the direction I think we're going in. I support Dave Joerger and I think what he's doing is going to pay dividends down the road. And yes, I'm well aware there is a certain segment of the fan base who patently disagrees. That's fine. NONE OF US have all the answers. :)
  3. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    Is there an option for "I don't think Joerger is doing a very good job, his rotations might cause this to break faster than it's probably going to break, but I'm not that worried whether they fire him because he's not among the top 5 reasons I think the Kings are probably screwed."

    Because I vote for that.
  4. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I think having the poll is ludicrous. We have a good coach. We have what amounts to an expansion roster. For those who want him gone, he's not going anywhere. The last thing this organization can afford to do is to look unorganized or unstable and not stick to the 3 year plan. Stability is the most important goal this year. They need to change how the league and people view the organization and stay the course.
  5. pdxKingsFan

    pdxKingsFan Well-Known Member

    We're not getting a better coach. I think he has proven he can work in a small market and succeed. We have a young roster with a few vets and I think that playing to their strengths is essential for the young kids who need to understand that they don't get to just come in and run the show. We have seen quite painfully what happens when that happens with Cuz, IT and to a lesser extent Reke who probably would have had a better career if he had been cooled off in his first season, allowed time to rest/heal before his injuries became career hampering, and not been tagged as a future LeBron or MJ based on some silly stat line average.

    Let him do his thing and if there isn't a marked improvement by the second half of next season then maybe maybe you make a change.
  6. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I made the poll simple because you could nuance responses forever.

    I think someone saying everyone wants Joerger gone is ludicrous, which is why I created the poll to hopefully show the error in the statement. ;)
  7. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    Kinda feel like you missed the nuance of my response.
    VF21 likes this.
  8. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I personally don't think Joerger is the right coach for this team but it's too early to tell. I can't vote until the year is up.

    It's not about wins and losses. It's just about getting the most out of your players. That's all I ask for.

    So far he's gotten the most out of ZBo. Bogdan a distant second. No one else has really improved much at all or been able to even remotely replicate anything they did at the college level. If the year ends with the Kings still playing in this feed ZBo the ball system, I'll be voting to fire Joerger because he's basically wasted an entire year of development to have the kids stand around and watch a 36 year old with a body and skill set that none of them can possess or replicate.
  9. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    I'm so sick of the carousel.

    I think we will start seeing him play the kids more pretty soon. Vivek and Vlade have to have given up on their playoff aspirations by now, right?!

    (that was a joke, btw)

    Strictly W/L, this roster is a pile of garbage so we can't blame Joerger as far as record goes.

    Development wise, I think he has a short leash on a lot of the kids because he's trying to instill good habits. It will pay dividends long term, but will be frustrating in the short term. As much as we all want to see Skal play heavy minutes, he's pretty clueless looking out there.

    Rotations and the Z-bo-centric offense are kinda irksome though. I get why Joerger is peeving. But I say ride it out.
    lawlman91 and dude12 like this.
  10. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    First, I’ve noticed the board to be unusually Pro-Joerger. He’s given a long leash among a lot of Kings fans, and I’m not always sure how that good will started or was generated. It’s not typical of a lot of rebuilding franchise fanbases and the coaches of their teams

    I’m currently on the fence. I think he’s a solid enough coach, in terms of being young, energetic, and someone who could have the force or personality to motivate. But I don’t think he’s necessarily suitable for rebuilding situations (particularly with minute distribution and reliance on vets). On top of that it’s questionable if this particular team is tuning him out now or he has the proper schematic influence on it

    They can’t fire him now either way, will be an interesting question in the future
    notoriousBEN3 likes this.
  11. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    For me, the question is not how good is Joerger as a coach, but how good is he for us?
    I think the verdict is still out on that one. But I predict that he'll turn out to be a good to very good coach for us.
    I made a list over the last 6 months of the Kingsfans posters who constantly rave about getting rid of Joerger. It's 7-8 people, out of several hundred posters. It's not "everybody." Not even close.
    That said, I have turned against Joerger over the past month because of his affliction for relying too much on veterans to pick up "wins" at the expense of developing our rookies. Don't misunderstand, I like that Joerger wants to play a combination of vets and youngsters, and he wants to put the youngsters in situations where they can best succeed. I'm just saying that Joerger needs a little encouragement. Sort of like when your alcoholic Uncle Max is coming to visit and you want to spare him from the temptation of alcoholic drinks. In Joerger's case, I think we just need to trade 1-2 of our vets for future assets.
    King Baller likes this.
  12. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    the poll shouldn't ask the question, should Joerger be retained. He has been retained by signing a extension before the season. The real question here is, does he have a long term future with the Kings and right now, the answer is no. It's been said time and time again, he is learning how to coach a rebuilding team and how to properly utilize them. I'm willing to give him some rope here for the sake of sanity and continuity. If we see after year three that he still doesn't value playing the youngins to their strengths and willing to change his coaching to the type of players he has, then it would be the right time to look in another direction but there is no way that this team can continue to afford to have this coaching carousel, time and time again.
    The Effort Police likes this.
  13. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    The coach is one of the only things not wrong with the Kings. They have a collection of old men and kids. They have had some good games this year that peaked against Cleveland. They will start being competitive again when they start playing team defense.
  14. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    How many rookies or young guys league wide are replicating what they did in college? I'd say WCS has improved in his 3rd year...he's one of the few from that draft playing at a respectable level.

    And just focusing on rookies, some are playing well, most aren't. Fox has had moments, Mason has hit a wall but had moments, Jackson had a few moments early but has been struggling. I'd say year 3 is where you see if a guy is worth continuing to invest time in or not.....not at the end of year 1. If you stick with that as your measuring stick, and it's your choice, you probably will be disappointed.
    Telemachus likes this.
  15. swisshh

    swisshh Well-Known Member

    I think Joerger is a good coach. Like many coaches he has some flaws.

    I just want to see him adapt to a new direction. I want players to be able to rely on when they'll play.

    I also don't like calling for a coach's head as a default. This is a weird roster that doesn't make sense. That is not Joerger's fault.

    Move a couple of the vets. Establish a reliable rotation. Let the kids play through their mistakes. Ditch the double standards that frustrate locker rooms. Design the system to the talent.

    The season is quickly running out of time for the Kings because the whole point of this season is to see what you have to build a winner from. There is an obvious change that must occur before you can make a good read on what you have for the future. The longer you delay it then the worse you'll be going into the off-season.
  16. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    He could be fired with or without that extension. I think you're splitting hairs.
  17. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Unusually "pro-Joerger" compared to what? It's not typical? When have Kings fans EVER been typical? Maybe he's being given a long leash because he deserves it and most Kings fans are not anxious to jump back on the never-ending Coaching Carousel if not absolutely necessary.
    Larry David likes this.
  18. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I'm confused. You say he's one of the only things NOT wrong with the Kings, but you have the sole vote to get rid of him?
    King Baller likes this.
  19. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    I'm really not sure whether Joerger is a good coach or not. But given his past in the D-League and at Memphis, there are at least hints that he might be a good coach. In Sacramento he hasn't really given us a lot to like, but there's been a decent amount of roster turnover (his best player got traded away mid season last season) and he has had teams stacked with very young players, so perhaps that's to be expected.

    More than anything, I want to see the Sacramento coaching carousel come to a halt for a while. Ideally, Joerger would be the head coach here for the next 10 years, or even 20. Obviously that depends on performance - he needs to actually prove himself to be a good coach to get that kind of tenure - but for the moment A) I don't think he has been able to accurately showcase his coaching ability here and B) WE NEED CONTINUITY. We've been jumping from head coach to head coach with the frequency of a cheap ham radio lately. And no matter who is coach, all of our young players have trouble with development. Well, maybe, just maybe, that's because they spend nine months learning one system and just as they're about to get it, they have it yanked out from under them and move to an entirely new system. We won't get anywhere if that doesn't stop. So yeah, Joerger stays. I give him not only this full season but at least 2018-2019 and probably 2019-2020 before I am willing to fire him, if results don't improve.
    lawlman91, lwc, datamanwes and 6 others like this.
  20. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    You have to give him at least two years before re-evaluating. When Vince Carter played like a 30 year old and the Kings beat Cleveland he and his system looked great. Having a very young team is impossible for a coach, and having an schizo team is just as impossible. We have to wait and see how the team looks in 2020. Then re-evaluate. It would be nice to put this poll on the January 4, 2020 calendar and see what the poll says then. Hopefully, Joerger is still around then, as well as management.
    lawlman91, lwc, ppine and 3 others like this.
  21. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Keep him! YES!
    pshn80 and King Baller like this.
  22. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Member

    Jeez, how awesome did Pop look when they were tanking for Duncan?

    This question should not be entertained for at least two more seasons on the short end, and I prefer at least three more years with Joerger. He is a really good coach, and frankly, that’s about the best you can ask for in the NBA. Put it this way, if Joerger is given the horses he is good enough to win a championship.
  23. pdxKingsFan

    pdxKingsFan Well-Known Member

    I lived with a Spurs fan in the years before they pushed over the hump and he hated Pop.

    Goes to show.

    Also different sport but the Patriots were just flippin awful for the first 18 games (5-13) of Bill Belichick's coaching tenure in NE until they lost their franchise QB due to injury and they had to roll with some unknown guy.
    King Baller likes this.
  24. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    Probably Sactownroyalty, the national media, and fans of other teams.
  25. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Hardly. Sure, he can get fired at any time but Vlade brought him along and I don't see Vlade making such a quick decision. But then again, we didn't expect Cousins to get shipped so quickly either and we saw how that ended.
  26. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    I think it's fair to say that Joerger will be here this season and probably next, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him fired at the end of the 2019 season or not extended at the end of the 2020 season. NBA coaches actually don't have that long of a shelf life with one particular franchise, and that's especially true for bad teams. Better coaches than Joerger have succumbed to short stints with bad teams; it's nothing new. It's a minor miracle Brett Brown has lasted as long as he has with the Sixers, but I guess he was brought in to oversee exactly what happened with them. Joerger was brought in primarily for a Cousins team, has straddled two different directions the team has gone in, has questionable fit and methods for a rebuilding team, won't make them a contender by the time his contract is up, has a twitchy, unpredictable GM AND owner, and has been the engineer of a team that is 29th in Ortg and 30th in Drtg based on his system (save me the roster argument; that's 2012 Bobcats bad.) You can easily see why he may not have a future here.

    People have brought up the end of the next season to see if things have improved; they will not record wise. We may see the emergence of a core and a star player (which is what I'm primarily looking for), but the record won't be anything approaching respectable.
  27. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    He definitely should be kept around for another year at least. But I think it's fair to say that he hasn't exactly succeeded in achieving any goals this season, wins or otherwise, unless all you were looking forward to was watching ZBo tearing it up. I personally think the team would be far better off running a different system, and I hate how short his leash is with Buddy and Skal. But as Capt said, there's reason to believe he is a good coach. Just maybe not as good as some people seem to think, kinda similar to how Mike Malone was viewed. I think a lot of goodwill toward him stems from his supposed defense-first grind it out reputation, which still draws a lot of favour on this board (no doubt due to the strong voices of proponents).
  28. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I'll make myself a note. ;)

    I'm curious. If you think he should be retained at least for now, which is what I'm taking away from your post, why did you vote "No" in the poll?
  29. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    It's too early but I think things were stacked against him at the start and he's done nothing but dig his own hole deeper. He still has a chance to turn it around, but the chirping is becoming louder and louder.

    If he can get with the program, commit to the youth, starting playing a lineup with real starters and a focus that won't see his players coming for his throat (like it's trending towards), and stop forcing in a bad fit system before it's too late then by all means, stick around! ha ha.
  30. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member


    Totally different situation. Joeger isn't dealing with an injured HOF big man and Pop didn't have a team comprised of almost 90% rookies who should have been playing. Their situation didn't necessitate a rebuild, the Kings just traded their HOF (potentially) big to re-start theirs.

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