Jahlil Okafor

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by Sac.1989, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    odd man out in PHI.

    Id like to think this is something we explore as the Sixers are exploring moving him and we could potentially strike a deal.

    Vlade might see it as giving up on Papa so it may never happen but these are the deals we need to be looking to make. Add as much young talent as we can now and let them gel. I feel he is past his issues and could be had on the cheap.

    If the spurs somehow got a hold of him, they'd be really set up for years to come. We have strong vets now and this kid just wants to play. We should explore
  2. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    i agree. and i have given up on papa
  3. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I'd much rather the team take a chance on the selections available in this upcoming draft
    "The Serbian Sniper" likes this.
  4. "The Serbian Sniper"

    "The Serbian Sniper" Well-Known Member

    I missed that part , but how many teams are interested in Jahlil now? What is his price, what do you think we will have to send to Philly?

    He is "15-20 minutes guy" for Philly now, but potentially all-star C. Much bigger talent then Papa and WCS, since im not impressed with them so far and i prefer bigs with soft hands and skills. But if Kings would have to give up first round pick, then no.
    CelticsFan likes this.
  5. LPKingsFan

    LPKingsFan Well-Known Member

    Doesn't have to be either or. I have no idea what it would take to land Okafor, but I'm assuming the Kings '18 first would be off the table.
    Sac.1989 likes this.
  6. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    Okafor does not meet any of the teams needs. He only exacerbates them.

    Defense? Nope.

    Rebounding? Nope.

    He is basically Skal without the range and less potential.
  7. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I would definitely take a look at Okafor. He is a very talented scorer in the low post.

    Seeing that Philly traded Noel for a 2nd rounder at the trade deadline last year, I think Okafor could be had for a pretty cheap price.

    Maybe send one of our extra SGs, i.e. Malichi Richardson or a 2nd round pick or two for Okafor?

    At the very least, he could become an Enes Kanter type, a dominant scoring big off the bench.
    Sac.1989 likes this.
  8. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Kid can play and he isnt part of the posse they got going in PHI, doesnt quite seem part of the in group that his team mates have built. He has publicly stated he questions his future there.

    Agree we dont leverage our first round pick for him but given what they sent Noel away for we can easily make this work by sending them a young (surplus) prospect which will be enticing. Its identifying what we can send which isnt quite hitting its mark for us - id explore Papa/WCS, Malichi might be possible too given Bog is here and 25 with experience and a decent career ahead of him
  9. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I agree with most of your post. I would consider sending out one of our surplus young unproven players, i.e. Malichi or possibly Papa for Okafor.

    But I think WCS has proven he can become a quality NBA big and would be a good player to keep to balance Okafor's lack of defense from the center position for the Kings.
    Sac.1989 likes this.
  10. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Agree, i like WCS but its a make or break season coming up for him
  11. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    that's an interesting comparison.. but Okafor is much more talented scorer than Skal is right now. I also think Okafor is capable of guarding post scoring Cs, whereas Skal cannot guard anyone..
  12. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I'm not so sure Philly is interested in any of our assets. They are loaded and stacked in every position.

    PG: Fultz, McConnell, Bayless
    SG: Redick, Stauskas, Korkmaz
    SF: Covington, Luwawu, Anderson
    PF: Simmons, Saric, Holmes
    C: Embiid, Okafor

    Only piece from the Kings I'd see them wanting is George Hill for a playoff run. If Fox shows enough in December, I'd do a George Hill for Okafor swap.
  13. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I'm surprised you're so high on him. He's kind of considered a joke from a lot of the articles and forums I've read about him. I wouldn't trade any of our young guys for him, not even Papa or Malachi. His rebounding and defense are a joke and he turns the ball over a lot. He scores a little bit better than Skal at the moment but not by much. Skal was also a better rebounder than him last year. Skal might not eclipse Okafor's point totals this year but I see him being a better player overall and hopefully continuing that trajectory upward.

    Okafor is kind of similar to Kanter. The only thing keeping Kanter average is his rebounding, especially his offensive rebounding. Without that, he would be a big negative to his team. Okafor is basically like Kanter without the rebounding.

    I see his ceiling as maybe touching average for a year or two while being below average the rest of his career. His scoring numbers look nice on paper but he doesn't actually do a whole lot to help your team win games.
    jcassio likes this.
  14. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I don't think I'm unreasonable high on Okafor. I think he's got lots of limitations and a lot of maturing left. But, youth plays a big part of it, he's only 21 turning 22 at the end of this year. He's younger than 3/5 of our rookies this year....
    I think he's physically limited. He just doesn't have a lot of footspeed or vertical hops. Even with those limitations, he's been able to score at an efficient rate for a post-scorer. He also reminds me of a much much less talented younger Cousins. I'll compare Okafor's rookie year with Cousins' sophomore year because they have the same amount of minutes played(30 minutes).

    Cousins: 18.1pts___11.0rebs___ 1.2blks___1.6asts___2.7tos___2.6PFs

    FG% 44.8___FT% 70.2____FTA 5.8
    Okafor: 17.5pts___7.0rebs____1.2blks___1.2asts___2.3tos___4.0PFs

    FG% 50.8___FG% 68.6____FTA 3.7
    Cousins was a much better rebounder than Okafor. Okafor is just not a good rebounder. Okafor was a more efficient scorer than Cousins. Okafor was a more talented scorer than Cousins at that time. Like Okafor, Cousins struggled laterally in his first few years in the league for being too heavy. Neither were rim protectors nor good passers. Cousins had a big attitude issue, Okafor has a bit of an attitude issue too, but their issues are different. Okafor is more of a nonchalant player who shows he still needs to mature. I think Cousins was much much much much much much more talented than Okafor, but there is a parallel between the players, and Okafor still has lots of time to improve.
    I wouldn't mind trading Hill for Okafor because Hill doesn't have any long-term plans here. 2 years from now, he'll be 33, meanwhile, Okafor will only be 24. It's a small gamble, especially if Fox shows that he's ready to take over the starting job. If things don't work out with Okafor, we don't lose anything. Okafor is better than Papa by a lot. Malachi has struggled to find a fit on this team with 4-6 other wings on this team.

    I'm really not a big fan of Okafor, but when you're the Kings, why not gamble on talent? We have a roster full of unproven and inconsistent young players.
  15. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Okafor >>> WCS

    For all the talk about his defense, it's not like WCS or Skal are very good on that end. I'd much rather have Okafor than Skal.
    206Fan and sono like this.
  16. Nokidding

    Nokidding Active Member

    Completely agree people have already written him off when he's one of the very few big's in the NBA that is almost impossible to guard 1 v 1 and you have to send a double team at him. He's also lost weight this season and seems a bit more springy.

    Okafor for all his faults has some seriously unique talents you simply don't see and are near impossible to teach. To me he's a starter in the NBA just not on Philly since they have one of the most freakish talents @C I have ever seen in Joel.
    206Fan and dude12 like this.
  17. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/does-jahlil-okafor-have-a-place-in-todays-nba/

    The way this article views Okafor is the way most of the NBA views him. Skal has a much higher ceiling than Okafor does. As of right now, Okafor does what Skal does, only slightly better. So you'd basically be taking a possible winning lottery ticket and trading it in for a guaranteed $2 in winnings. I'd rather just hold on to my ticket than guarantee that I didn't lose my $1 ticket purchase.

    Okafor's post scoring and efficiency looks nice on paper but it's all he does. He brings nothing else to the court other than frustration. Low motor? Check. Lack of effort on D? Check. James Harden moments on D? Check. A complete wuss when it comes to boarding? Check.

    Okafor isn't just expendable because of Embiid. His minutes dropped because they realized that he just isn't an effective NBA player.

    People jump on Skal for his lack of effort but I didn't see a lack of effort last night. Everyone is always mixing up lack of effort with shot making. When Skal's shot is going in, he's great. When his shot is missing, he's not trying. When Buddy's is going in, he's going to be our leading scorer on the year. When he's missing, he's just a chucker. We're too fickle on a possession to possession basis when it comes to these guys. Give them time to grow together and develop because if we don't we're going to wind up in another IT scenario where we ship out a future all star for absolutely nothing.
  18. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    How long are people going to use Skal's one great game against Phx last year as a measuring stick for his potential all-star potential? I think Skal is going to be a rotation guy but he's got deficiencies as many young guys do. Okafor commands attention on offense. Skal doesn't.....at least to this point. Besides, they play different positions. We can't even score 90 points a game because we have very few go to guys when things break down. Zbo is the guy, he just happens to be old and on the downside but still is a beast in the post. Okafor could help this team and I'd be more than willing to trade to get him with our excess guards.....wouldn't trade a 1st for him.

    I'd be tempted to deal Hield for him since we got BB8 and Hill and Temple to play there at SG. Slide Hill there and it frees up time for Mason and Fox.
    notoriousBEN3 and Nokidding like this.
  19. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    Maybe... I'd kinda like to see what we have first. Between Papagiannis, WCS, and possibly Giles, I'd kinda like to get a look at what they could possibly provide before giving up assets to replace them.
  20. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    You could take that game out and I'd have the same opinion of him. He has great footwork, good post moves, a nice hook and as smooth a jumper as anyone in the league. He's also already making 3 point shots. Two things are holding Skal back, his strength and his mind. Strength and size can be fixed relatively easily while his mind will take more work. Right now he doesn't always know where to be and he seems to be thinking a bit too much when he gets the ball in the post. I think those are fairly easily correctable things that come with practice and experience.

    Okafor has a grown mans body so other than being young, he has no excuses for why he doesn't rebound and doesn't try hard on defense. Most players don't improve their rebounding by much or at all as they get older. Defense can be improved but usually it's improved when they show a willingness to play it, which he does not. He's been benched for his play despite his numbers looking ok. There's a reason for that. He's still only 21 and has a ton of time to improve but usually teams aren't willing to give up on players this young unless they have something going on between the ears that they don't see as correctable. I believe last year the two top trade offers for him were Amir Johnson and Anjica.

    The 76ers would deal Okafor for Hield in a hot second. This team is going to be bad this year and trying to win more games this year by trading guys for a quick little band aid goes exactly against what they're trying to do, which is a complete rebuild. I see no point in possibly sacrificing the future to win 28 games instead of 25.
  21. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    If only we still had Whiteside. We could trade him for Okafor:p
  22. One and Done

    One and Done Active Member

    The clock is ticking on Okafor - in my opinion, his developable weaknesses have been exacerbated by the situation he inherited. And the urgency here is: how quickly can you get him on another team, in the right situation, before his bad habits become permanent? More importantly, can he learn to love basketball again?

    I think he has a lot of talent and basketball IQ, and his weaknesses can be mitigated with proper development in a winning environment. But it's almost near the deadline to resuscitate his career as a potential starter.

    On another note, asset-wise, I think he's more valuable at this stage vs. WCS and PapaG...I'd take a swing...but not sure the Kings are provide the best situation to undo his bad habits and reinstall his passion for the sport.
  23. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    Okafor is 3 years younger than WCS and better than him right now. Okafor is only 21. People forget he was in the league at 18. He still has value and could easily be a 20-10 guy in the right system.

    We should definitely take a chance on him. Still has some upside and can still improve his game.
  24. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Agreed.....this guy is hardly going to be out of the league soon. Get him into the right situation.
  25. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I agree. Any one of Bamba, Bagley, or Ayton has a bigger upside than Okafor. Hell, Papa is a better defensive center right now than Okafor. If you want a center to come in and score some points though, then Okafor is your guy.
  26. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Okafor is a very skilled post scorer. Question is, if the Kings or pretty much every NBA team still want to play a post scoring big.
    I think the strength of our team lies in it's young guards and athletic bigs. I personally would play a 4out system with a lob target as the lone big and would try to run and shoot 3's as much as possible. In this case Skal and Willie are way better fits than Okafor and when both Fox and Mason proof to be NBA players, we have more than enough firepower at PG to never use a fallback strategy with a low post scorer.

    But somehow Joerger seems to be convinced, that playing our bigs in the highpost is the way to go right now.
    If that's what our coach wants to do all year, I could imagine Okafor fitting in nicely. After all I would expect more out of a player like Okafor when given enough touches in the high post, than I would expect out of WCS or Skal.

    Hill with his shooting, defense and ability to play off the ball, would be a great fit for the 76ers next to Simmons and a great mentor for Fultz.
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Here's where I disagree. Willie has so far proven to be a good and improving passer. Okafor isn't a good passer, and if your playing your center in the highpost, he needs to be able to pass the ball. Okafor's strength is in the low post, not the high post. Also, if you have quick guards whose strengths are penetration into the lane, then you don't want a big, average athletic center clogging up the lane. If you looking to run and gun three's, you want to spread the floor, not clog up the lane.

    Oddly, both players played similar minutes in their 2nd year. Okafor 22 mpg and Willie, 19 mpg. Okafor shot 51.3% overall against Willie's 53.0%. They both grabbed just over 4 boards a game. Okafor's 4.8 to Willie's 4.5. Okafor averaged 1.2 apg to 1.8 turnovers, while Willie averaged 1.1 apg to 0.9 turnovers. When you add in that Willie is the far better athlete and superior defender, who do you want on the floor. If you were to just take Willies stats after the all star game, it's a no contest.

    Willie simply needs to be more consistent. The only place Okafor gets the nod over Willie is in the low post offensively. As I said, if that's what your looking for, then go for it. But Willie fits the game the Kings are tying to play, not Okafor.
  28. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

  29. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    I'll take Okafor in a heartbeat. He's still only 21. Still has potential to improve. If put in the right environment might flourish.
    206Fan likes this.
  30. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    I also think we should try to get in this mix. We do not have an abundance of bigs. I mean if Giles pans out, then we have Skal, WCS and Giles. If he doesn't... I mean it's awful - we do not have enough big men. I would just LOVE to have Okafor slugging away at those guys for minutes.
    206Fan likes this.

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