Demarcus Cousins Watch

Discussion in 'NBA' started by KingsFanGER, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    http://www.nba.com/pelicans/pelicans-live-stream

    Press conference with DMC and Omri.
    Classic Boogie answering the question, how much of a competitor he is with "About 17 T's worth....".

    Said the dishonesty from the Kings FO hurt the most in the trade process.
    Found out about serious trade talks during his interview on All-Star-Weekend.
    Hasn't talked to Vlade, even though Vlade tried to call and seemingly has no intentions to talk to him.
  2. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    https://theundefeated.com/features/demarcus-cousins-sacramento-kings-trade/

  3. Peter_Gibbons

    Peter_Gibbons Well-Known Member

    https://theundefeated.com/features/demarcus-cousins-sacramento-kings-trade/

    "I got a text from the owner right before I went to All-Star. He was asking me about a player, how I felt about him and making a move. The owner! When it happened, I was just in shock. I didn’t understand."

    Here is the full article from a post I made earlier which I thinks deserves it's own attention as it give a lot of insights on what happen leading up to this trade. If not, please move this to another thread. No matter if you liked Boogie or not, the trade was not handled professionally by the FO.
  4. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Vivek being a ****?

    Shocker.
  5. Shaqfuey

    Shaqfuey Member

    I realize the pro-Cousins fans will read his comments and immediately side with him, and the anti-Cousins likewise. My problem (and would say I lean toward happy they traded him) is that Cousins is always the victim. It's the coaches, it's the refs, it's the management. He never has accountability for his actions. Things changed when he picked up another technical (btw, not the sign of being a competitor - more of being a selfish child), was suspended, negatively engages with people in the crowd. That stuff cannot be overlooked in the decision. The season is fluid and things can change rapidly - particularly at the all-star break / trade deadline. Hope this offers him an opportunity to grow up and be accountable for his poor on-court decisions, his need to react negatively in media, and his constant need to point blame at others.
    New Era likes this.
  6. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    That must have been a huge shock to Cousins.

    However, there are two sides to every story.

    For example, the Kings of course needed to act as though he was a full fledged member of the team in case a deal didn't go down. You can't let a player know that you are considering trading him, or are listening to offers. If an agent of any player gets wind of talks, it can damage the deal because they start putting out spin, etc. Infact we saw this in this deal. "Demarcus won't sign an extension with the team he is traded to", and it DID damage the deal. Btw... it's the GMs right and responsibility to listen to and explore offers, all the time. What do you expect him to do? Report to you any time he talk with another team?

    I agree the news could have been commmunicated in a better way. But what Cousins is doing here is making Vlade act in a very narrow way, or else he's going to "get offended". Vlade did try to call. But once the trade was done, of course it's going to travel at lightning speed and get to Cousins ear. So Vlade is a bad guy because he didn't beat that lightning fast word of mouth?

    And he did attempt to call. But, if Cousins is already so offended, what is the point of a conversation right now? I suspect after he cools off ther can be a conversation.

    I love Demarcus. I feel for him, but he is not a victim here. I think this will ultimately be a good thing for him, once he has time to contemplate it. He has always shown great capacity for self inquiry and self awareness.
    Blastoff and ElRey like this.
  7. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    @Shaqfuey -

    There is some excluded middle in your post. I am neither pro-Cousins nor anti-Cousins. I am pro-big man, which is why I have a personal rooting interest in the Cousins/Davis tandem working out in New Orleans. What I am anti- is the business practices involved in what led to the trade. I was opposed to trading Cousins because I didn't think that we would get enough in return, and I was right.

    I have personally been anti-Divac ever since I heard a comment that he (allegedly) made in the aftermath of the Webber trade, after he was back with the gd lakers: he's been on my FYF list ever since, and nothing has happened in the intervening time to change my mind. And of course, I have been anti-Ranadivé ever since I came to the realization that his obsession with the Warriors (whose style of play I loathe) was never going to go away. So, in my case, it's less that I am pro-Cousins, and more that I am pro-whoever is on the side that is in opposition to Ranadivé/Divac.

    I agree with you that Cousins doesn't do enough to take responsibility for his actions. But, I don't believe that this is a case where only one thing can be true at the same time. I also believe that when he blames other people, he's not wrong, and the fact that he doesn't take enough personal accountability does not dilute from that fact.
    KingsFanSince85 and Shaqfuey like this.
  8. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Yes, the hell you can. A general manager always has the option of working with the player and the agent, to make a deal that benefits everybody. A general manager doesn't have a mandate to try and blindside the player to make a deal; if you don't want the player's agent to sabotage a deal, negotiation is always an option. All he had to do is go to Cousins' agent and say something like, "Look, we're looking at moving DeMarcus, and we'd like to get as good a deal as we can: what do you need us to do for him, that you won't try and sabotage the deal?"
    Bricklayer, pdxKingsFan and hrdboild like this.
  9. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    I guess that could have happened, but the GM is under no obligation to do that, based on how he sees things. And maybe it would have been better in this case for the Kings to do that. But that is Vlade's call. Maybe he made the wrong call.

    And just because he didn't do it that way, does not mean he is a bad guy or doesn't care about Cousins, or he did Cousins dirty. He may be perceived that way, but that does not make it the case.

    And we don't have all the info. We already know that Cuz's agent was actively sabotaging the deal. There were 30 million mor dollars to be had in sac. The agent is fighting for his OWN big bucks here too. My guess is that Vlade made the decision to try to keep all talks 100% private, but there are all kinds of backroom dealings and connections and the agent found out. So now, playing Monday morning quarterback, we can sit back and say "yeah he should have talked with Cousins first". In the heat of th deal, you can't always know that is the best.

    Also, sure as hell Cuz's agent is putting spin out to smear and blame Vlade, rather than his own client looking like the problem. Part of that is creating the narrative that he was done dirty.
  10. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    You are correct: the general manager is under no obligation to do that. And it's my personal opinion that a general manager who chooses not to is a POS, and should not prosper. Not even if they run a team that I ostensibly root for.

    And, for ****'s sake, don't hold a press conference where you have the audacity to fix your mouth to say anything about character, in any context whatsoever, after lying to a player's face. You can miss me with that.
    63royals, Bricklayer, VF21 and 2 others like this.
  11. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    Happens in baseball like that all the time. That's the norm. Also, we complain about leaks this, leaks that. We appreciate in the past when a player is traded for without hearing anything. I guess that's more likely when there is less money at stake because agents and NBA dealers don't want to spend favors leaking info or putting out spin on low level guys.

    So you think that on every single trade, a player should always be informed that he is being considered for a deal? That would create a morale and gossip disaster. You can't run a team like that.
  12. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Just saying Vlade didnt only trade DMC for low value and without being upfront to him about it (not only didn't he tell him - no he lied to him and said he won't be traded) - he also tried to use Cousins as a scapegoat by blaming his agent and by pointing at his character as the reason for the trade. It's a mystery for me, how some can call Cousins childish and selfish, but are able to side with Vlade.
    The reaction from Cousins was predictable and I fear NBA players will listen to what he has to say.
  13. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    That's only one of a half-dozen or so reasons why I don't like baseball.

    That's a false ultimatum, in my opinion. Ideally, the player should be informed, precisely in order to keep his agency from actively trying to sabotage you; the general manager and the player should work together to make the best deal that favors both parties. Failing that, just don't lie to someone's face.
  14. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    The GM has a responsibility to the team, first. Legally, morally, whatever you want to call it. That is who pays his paycheck.

    If Vlade made a bad judgement call that going about trade talks without informing the player (an yes that would require lying, because he is being asked about it all the time), does not make him a POS.

    So your argument then, is that he should tell the player, because it is in the best interest of the team?

    There are competing interests here. Cousins wanted to stay in Sac, and his agent wanted him in Sac, for $$ reasons. You are assuming that it WOULD have worked out better for the Kings had it been above board. I have no way of knowing that, so I can't assume Vlade is a POS for acting how he did. In a case where I can't know the outcome to something that didn't happen, I choose the charitable position that Vlade did the best he could according to his responsibilities.

    That said, you can make the argument that the Kings would have gotten more had he been on board. However broadcasting to the entire league that you ARE going to trade a player, doesn't necessarily strengthen your position.

    Two days ago I was mad as hell. I thought Vlade was incompetent, and borderline throwing the team under the bus.

    After seeing the chemistry on the floor, and especially the mysterious development of our young players, I am not so sure.
  15. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    You are, once again, creating a false ultimatum, by implying an either/or scenario. The general manager having a responsibility to the team first does not require him to be a ****bag about how he does his business.
    KingsFanSince85 and VF21 like this.
  16. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    At this point, I don't want to read any more statements from DeMarcus. It's over.

    One of the biggest complaint about him was that he held on to issues and let them affect his game. I do not want to see this happen in New Orleans. He's been handed a perfect situation for a successful career. Regardless of how it happened, he has a new start. It's up to him to take advantage of it.

    Boogie - Quit whining to the media. Just get out there and show everybody what a stupid decision the Kings made. Let your game speak volumes instead of your mouth. What Vlade or Vivek or anyone else did is now history. It doesn't matter. What matters is that you have an organization right now that fully supports you and wants you to succeed. Relish these times and meet your destiny.
    New Era and 206Fan like this.
  17. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Bottom line? Boogie should have heard about the trade from Vlade. Nobody else. Vlade is the one who made him the promises and it was Vlade's responsibility to explain to Boogie why that was no longer possible. Even saying they no longer believed he was worth the $200 mil because of his recent actions would have been more palatable to DMC than what went down. THAT'S what upset me the most - and why I still think Vlade compromised his own integrity.
    IfAt1st, Tetsujin and Joshoua like this.
  18. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    im a huge fan of boogie but i think his agent may force a trade down the line after he got his extension.
    ElRey likes this.
  19. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    Even Petrie had one of these gaffes, without the public proclamation of course. Vlade will have to live with it and just like Boogie, learn from it.
  20. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    I don't disagree with this.

    However, I don't know the inner workings. But if there was any way Vlade could have asked a favor of the Pels front office to hold on five minutes and let me call my guy and have a talk, I would appreciate that.

    From what I saw, Boogie was told in the middle of an interview, suggesting that the news came through his agent and went DIRECTLY to his ears. So maybe his agent is legally required to be told of the trade and as soon as that happened, someone runs and the interview.

    And, I don't know when the phone call attempt from Vlade happened.

    Regardless of all that, and even if Vlade in this situation wasn't able to inform first, or just failed to, he should have absolutely done a better job of trying to get alone, face to face with the man, and say everything right to his face.

    So I kind of agree with you.

    If you are going to be the leader of the troops, you need to show your top guy more respect in communication.
    VF21 likes this.
  21. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    Yes, and also this.

    It's a dirty world, the NBA. All kinds of factors we are not privy to.
  22. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    i had some time to decompress after the trade. this is a real scenario that could have happened with him.

    extend him 40m/yr and to keep him happy patchwork deals/vets ala lebron 1st run w cavs. no cap/flexibility to make moves for the foreseeable future. all moves are to please star player. difference is boogie is volatile. what if his agent isn't feeling the situation after speaking to him, forces trade to his preferred destination ala melo. if he doesn't get his way and explodes. we would have to agree to whatever team deal bc he isn't happy. only a few teams would be willing to take him on at that price tag and it would require a team gutting their players to make a trade work.

    we're in a predicament where we cannot add cost controlled talent via the draft bc we mortgaged the future to win now.. . i think the holding onto the players until this summer to trade will make them more attractive. players are only guaranteed for a small amount. tolliver, afflalo (20m combined). we could be a third wheel to help facilitate a draft day/offseason trade and get some young talent or picks out of them.
  23. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    I'm sure you all will be perfectly understanding when a few weeks after your spouse spends hours planning your anniversary with you and talks about having kids, then wants to discuss how to renovate the kitchen, then a couple days later while you're on a business trip he/she calls the restaurant during a business dinner to let them know that the locks have been changed and he/she's shacking up with the pool boy/maid.
    Ron, Tetsujin, Glenn and 4 others like this.
  24. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Being no social media guy I'm obviously a bit late to the party, but can one of you fellow king fanss explain to me, how the narrative of Cousins as a lockerroom cancer and coach killer still has merit, when there are interviews out there like this?



    "We can never replace what Cuz did for this organisation"
    "Even before Vlade said that (refering to Vlades comments about not trading DC).....weird pause....I'm a little shaken up right now, because of the situation wit Cuz and Casspi"
    "The people is what makes it so hard to leave SAC. You talk about the franchise, but it's the people outside of the franchise...."
    "You can't find 30 points anywhere else...his rebounding....., his competitiveness, his determination, his fire...."
    "it was real sad and we were speechless on a lot of different things"
    "for us it going to take a while to get over the feeling he is not here in the lockerroom anymore"
    "Those guys mean so mucb to me, my family and this organisation"



    "Dmc made me a better coach. I'll miss DMC and Matt". I love them."
    ""You don't have to be an butthead to have talent and just because you are a nice guy doesn't mean you can play. Talent wins...."
    " we are going to fight like crazy. That's where a guy like Matt means a lot. He was the leader of our lockerroom"



    "Obviously DMC was a vocal leader. he talked a lot and helped guys as much as he could."

    I mean I'm German and I know from limited personal experience, that US americans are a little bit more closed, when it comes to genuine feelings and will often be extremely polite. On top of that English is not my native language so I'm not necessarily good to really understand what lies beneath some comments in terms of intonation for example. So does this mean, these guys just don't want to say anything bad about former colleagues? Because I'm confused - these are actual quotes, not stories based on anonymous sources or anything, but actual quotes and every one of those guys seemed genuine to me. DC looked extremely sad and hinted he doesn't put trust in Vlades words. Joerger couldn't express anymore openly as an employee, that he doesn't necessarily agree with his superior. Tolliver praised DMC for his deeds with the community and his leadership.

    Really any time I stumble over actual quotes of players or coaches about DMC it's mostly positive. But nonetheless it seems to be common sense, that he is a bad teammate, lockerrom cancer and coach killer, because......sources.....
    Would be really interesting to get a few opinions, how people from a similar cultural background like these guys think about the interviews? Are those guys simply polite and lie about DMC, because they think it would be detrimental to their careers if they step up and say, that they are happy he is gone? Do they look like teammates, who have just been relieved from a dark cloud and the biggest bully in the league?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    IfAt1st, Ron, Tetsujin and 3 others like this.
  25. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    For what it is worth, this is how Vlade explains it in Voisin's latest article.:

    "Reached in his office in the Kings’ practice facility on Friday, Divac said he had no plans to trade the team’s longest-tenured player until talks with the Pelicans heated up about four days before the All-Star Game.

    “We didn’t have anything going until then, no other team showed any real interest or offered anything that made sense,” Divac explained. “DeMarcus was going to be with us, and we would deal with his (contract) situation this summer. It all happened very fast, when the whole approach changed. Then when I told his agents we were suddenly having serious discussions (with the Pelicans), he started called people around the league, saying DeMarcus could not sign an extension if he got traded. They got scared. So I decided not to share anything with the agents (Dan Fegan and Akana) anymore. They were protecting their client, but I had to protect my organization"

    Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article134790614.html#storylink=cpy
  26. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    Disagree with you here. Sure, AD is the best talent he will have ever played with, but we have no idea yet whether that pairing is even close to a good fit and won't for a while. It's not like he was paired with a Steph Curry or Klay Thompson-esque shooter that would seem to be a more conventional pairing or compliment to his game.

    Also, New Orleans doesn't really have much else. While having AD, on paper, makes people believe that Boogie is in a better place, I'm not convinced it's currently better than where he just came from -- where they were playing pretty good ball and had a better record than the Pelicans to begin with.
  27. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    You may be right. That's not exactly what I was referring to, so only time will tell. At least he's no longer in the middle of a toxic front office docu-drama/
    Ron and KingsFanSince85 like this.
  28. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    Sorry that I misunderstood. Also, agreed about being free from the toxic front office. That certainly is a plus.
    Ron and VF21 like this.
  29. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    It remains to be Seen, if the Pelicans front office is less toxic. Demps was on the verge of being fired before the Boogie trade. Now they waived Casspi. But held on to Asik, Pondexter and Ajinca.
    Im not convinced that those guys know what they are doing, which makes it even more upsetting, that we got fleeced by them.

    Versus Dallas the weakness of the twin tower thing showed from my point of view. Boogie was once again guarding the likes of Barnes or Finney-Smith. Carlisle just went small and quick and got away with it. Noel was very disruptive, although the Pelicans missed a lot of good shots.
    There is some great potential in the Ad and DMC pairing, but also some difficult decisions to make - Ad is the superior shot blocker for example, but does this mean you should play him close to the rim on D and have Boogie chasing Sf's around the perimeter?
    I dont know man - its nice to try to zig when everybody is zagging, but Gentry and Demps have a lot to figure out this season.

    Some guys on the Pelicans are legitimately afraid to throw in post entry passes. Hill and Thompson and Holiday to a lesser extent constantly chose to swing the ball at the 3 point line, instead of giving it down to Boogie, who had his defender pinned in a deep post position. Boogie had 9 shot attempts and 5 came from the 3 point line. Another problem was the passing out of the double teams, where Boogie wasn't really familiar yet, where his open man would be.
    Other than that - a ton of unfocused plays and unforced errors like travels, TO's without defensive pressure, throwing ill advised passes, missing free throws and lots of missed open shots.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  30. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    They waived Casspi because he is an expiring contract so by waiving him they are on the hook for the remainted of his salary for this season. Asik, Ajinca and Pondexter are contracted beyond this season whcih would make no sense for the, to do financially. They needed to free up a roster spot so that they can sign someone to help them now and unfortunately Casspi made sense even though he is better for them than the 3 you have mentioned.

    Boogie and AD will be a heck of a duo once they figure it out. Theywere both rolling in the fitst quarter and it looked good. Hell they even ran Boogie and Ad pick and roll that ended up in "and 1" for AD:eek::eek::eek:

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