Breaking down the logic for the DMC Trade and the Kings Future

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by ockingsfan, Mar 16, 2017.

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  1. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I have been contemplating the reasons behind the DMC trade and have deduced why it had to go down the way it did. In the end, I think it was the best for all parties.

    First off, we do not know what goes on behind the scenes with the whole DMC dynamic. But, I think that Vlade had decided long ago, from his drafts and free agent signings, that DMC was too volatile to build the team around long term. From his on court outburst and technicals, to cussing out coaches, berating newspaper reporters, bar room fights, to flipping off fans, I think he had seen enough. He knows when he sees a cohesive locker room and I get the feeling that the Kings locker room wasn't all that cohesive.

    From Vlade's post trade comments, I think it was partly to cover his butt for getting so little in return, but I think he was also trying to shed a little light on the DMC situation. He shouldn't had kicked DMC on his way out, that is pretty clear, but you can glean some behind the scene thought process from his words. He had mentioned that they knew that DMC had anger issues and he resisted any anger management treatment or counseling at all, until they started talking about an extension. Then, DMC was willing to consider treatment. Vlade did not see that gesture as genuine, and we will never really know if it really was.

    Once Vlade decided that DMC had to go, which I believe was before the draft, considering how he drafted. He just had to get the owner on board with the decision to trade DMC. From all accounts, Vivek loved DMC and did not want to trade him.

    One main culprit in this trade, that not many people talk about was the new Designated Franchise Player tag that teams could give their franchise player. This changed the game for re-signing DMC from an approximate $28 mil price tag to 40% of the cap and $42 million price tag. You are talking about 40% of your cap space going to one player, on a sub-0.500 team! That left little room for the Kings to improve around DMC. And from all accounts, DMC was expecting that max and probably wouldn't have accepted much less than that, especially when you look at his new agent. I think this new price tag helped swayed Vivek into trading DMC mindset.

    Vlade, for all his transgression was trying to maintain DMC trade value, while everyone in the NBA knew they would have to sell low on DMC eventually. I'm sure he was getting some low ball offers, that is why he had to put out the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" stance to everyone, to try and drive up DMC asking price. That, plus he was still waiting to get approval from Vivek on a trade. If Vivek doesn't give Vlade the green light to trade him, Vlade would have to stay the course and would have resigned DMC in the summer, whether he wanted to or not.

    Now, once the trade was coming to fruition, Vlade tried to do the decent thing and warn DMC's agent, which ultimately drove down DMC trade value even further, once the agents contacted teams that DMC would not sign an extension. Had Vlade not tried to be decent and give DMC's agent a warning about the trade, the Kings may have gotten 2 1st round picks out of this trade.

    At this point, Vlade had to pull the trigger and complete the deal. He and/or Vivek really wanted Buddy and the Kings essentially got 2 first round picks from the DMC trade anyways (their own top ten protected and N.O.'s pick). I have no doubt that we would have lost their 1st round pick this year, if DMC was still on the team. Had they waited until the summer, the best they would have gotten, would of probably had been 2 first round picks and a young player, which they may not have like as much as they liked Buddy.

    Essentially, the Kings got 3 first round picks in the DMC trade, Buddy Hield (2016 6th pick), Kings keep their Top 10 pick this year, and hopefully a top 10 N.O. pick this year.

    Essentially the Kings are left with a young and exciting core, that had the DMC trade not had happened, would never have had the opportunity to shine for a long, long time. Now the Kings and Vlade can mold the team as he sees fit, hopefully, something that the Kings fans can be proud of. A young core of Buddy, Skal, WCS, Malichi, Papa and Bogdan (hopefully) can have a very bright future. This team can grow together, something that could not have happened when you had the urgency to compete with a 27 year old All-Star Center in the prime of his career.

    Youth Depth Chart:
    PF: Skal
    SF: Malichi (or 2017 Lotto pick)/ Bogdan
    C: WCS/ Papa
    SG: Buddy / Bogdan
    PG: 2017 Lotto Pick
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  2. upinsmoke

    upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    I don't mean to be rude but I think this topic has been discussed at nauseum. It's time to move on.
  3. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    I don't mean to be rude but the OP summarized all this better than anyone to date.
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  4. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    I was heretofore unawares of the details and timeline regarding the counselling and anger management stuff. I love Boogie, but that set of facts shows me he needed a wake up call. Hopefully getting traded was it.

    It may seem like a small detail, but to me, this is enough to sway me that the trade was necessary.
    ockingsfan likes this.
  5. roasthawg

    roasthawg Well-Known Member

    Really enjoyed the post. The designated franchise player seems to be the big factor here... DMC wanted the money that he could only get here. Vlade didn't want to pay him that money. It was a chess match from there. I like our haul all things considered. Buddy is a first and we're getting another from no and our own as well. That's solid return on DeMarcus imo all things considered.
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  6. upinsmoke

    upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    DMC has refused anger management going back to his rookie season. James Ham has a weekly podcast which can help anyone to follow the team.
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  7. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    So to sum it all up: All the blame is on DMC, because "sources" and Vlade did the best he could.
    Actually it's always about the character thing. Why not talk about basketball, instead of speculating how bad of a human being DMC is?
    We are faster now. We have the potential to guard the pick&roll really well. our transition defense is much better. We have added a good shooter in a league, that is all about shooting 3's.
    That are valid reasons for the trade, that could be brought up without trashing a guys character nobody around here knows.
    I still think Vlade is one of the worst GM's in this league. Not only because of the DMC trade, but even more because of the 76ers trade.
    And only basketball reasons will convince me of the opposite, not cheap talk about character and culture or how his hand were forced.
    Go give me a 45+ wins team in SAC and Playoffs and I will praise Vlade.
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  8. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    If you read the whole post, there are multiple reasons for the DMC trade, one being the "character" issue that Vlade brought up, but also, the fact that the Kings would never be able to compete with DMC getting 40% of the salary cap. The Kings were never going to be better than a borderline 8th seed with DMC, there was simply no room to develop any young players to complement DMC, with the urgency to win around DMC.
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  9. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    The anger management issues I brought up are well documented and known. I'm not trying to trash DMC, but he had some on and off court anger issues, that are well documented in the news, some with actual video too.

    Also, I am trying to break down the logic or thought process that Vlade had, deciding to trade a player of DMC caliber, the way he did and it.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  10. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Oh I did read your whole post. I just didn't find much I agree with. ;)
    Would never be able to compete with DMC? How do you know that? Why would we be forced to pay the supermax? Maybe the inability to actually put a competetive team around DMC over the last 7 seasons has anything to do with that? Why do other teams bring young players along, while trying to win?
    On this issue we are in totally different areas - which is fine. I just don't think we can write anything to convice each other of our own viewpoint.
  11. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    We can't know Vlade's thought process. And once again - the whole character discussion is just old and extremely overblown. You want to see real anger issues - go to a powerlifting meet of a non drug free federation. :p
    I won't understand why some people bring it up time and time again, instead of just talking basketball. You think this was a good trade from a basketball standpoint? Fine - I don't agree, but I can accept that. Time will tell, if Buddy Hield and the player we get for the Pel's pick will turn out to be better in terms of wins and losses than DMC. If that turns out to be the case, I'm all on board with Vlade.
  12. pdxKingsFan

    pdxKingsFan Well-Known Member

    Bottom line for me is this: 1) Talent for talent I think we lost this trade. 2) DMC is a generational talent with some major attitude issues. Absolutely loved him and defended him to death and it disappoints me to no end that he will not live out his potential in Sacramento. 3) So far, from what I gather Cousins has regressed in terms of emotional stability post trade, so maybe we dodged a bullet. 4) The salary cap ramifications of the DFP tag may take 5-10 years to fully understand and it's possible maxing out Cousins could have doomed us to permanent mediocrity.
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  13. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    DeMarcus Cousins is an immensely talented and dominant all-NBA/All-Star big who is fiercely loyal in and off the court and who has a good heart and loves the fans and the city of Sacramento. With the right players around him he could be the cornerstone of a contending or even championship team.

    DeMarcus Cousins is a mentally weak player whose inability to properly channel his emotions and choose his battles makes it hard for his teammates to count on him and difficult for them to play with him as well as for the front office/ownership to see him as their franchise player.

    Kings fans have argued these two viewpoints for years but the reality is that both are true.

    And I believe you're correct about the new Designated Franchise Player money being a factor. It was finally **** or get off the pot time and Vlade/Vivek made their choice.

    I will still root for Boogie.

    I will (hopefully) always root for the Kings.
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  14. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Maybe because the organization itself made character an issue?

    I think ockingsfan's post presents a possible scenario for what might have gone on in Vlade's mind. We used to do the same thing when Petrie was in charge (a long time ago) because he was so sphinx-like and nothing leaked out of the front office unless/before he wanted it to.
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  15. pdxKingsFan

    pdxKingsFan Well-Known Member

    I think that is something a lot of us that were reluctant to admit the latter are slowly coming to terms with. The sad thing is that I refuse to root against DeMarcus putting it all together just so I can look back 5 years from now and say we won this trade.
  16. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I agree with you. I don't think this is an either/or issue. We can go on and be successful, and so can Boogie, and I sincerely hope he does, until he play's against us of course.:rolleyes:
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  17. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    And why did the organisation make it an issue?
    Like the only one in this mess I still respect said: talent wins. Character is just a very weak excuse in my mind and completely classless when used as a kick on the way out for a loyal player.
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  18. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    And what are you doing with your post, but trashing someone's character? Only in your post, you're trashing Vlade instead of DMC. We all have our axes to grind, don't we? Plus, I'm not sure that I would agree that he was trashing DMC's character. I think he described a scenario in which the kings were not going to become championship contenders with DMC as the franchise player. And that doesn't mean that DMC is not a tremendous talent and a potential Hall of Fame player.
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  19. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Wait, what? I'm afraid you've totally lost me. Character does matter, whether it's with an organization or an individual player IMHO. I think it was classless for the comment to be made about DMC on his way out and I have openly and repeatedly questioned Vlade's character in regards to how he handled the whole situation surrounding the trade.

    I'm not a mind-reader. I don't know why the organization chose to make it an issue. Doing so IMHO was a stereotypical example of the pot calling the kettle black.
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  20. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    I'm not a mind-reader either but I do have a guess. They were trying to change the narrative. They were being raked over the coals in the media. Vivek has been tone-deaf in terms of the fans. Might have thought it would be easier to sell the character thing considering the media had mostly portrayed Cousins in a negative light nationally and especially locally. A lot easier to sell that than tell the fans that they couldn't afford him. And if they did try to afford him, would be unable to improve enough in order to compete at a high enough level. Not because of him but because of them.

    Just my guess.
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  21. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    @ockingsfan That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out hypothesis. In the words of the great and honorable Judge Chamberlain Haller: "Overruled!"

    In all seriousness, while we'll likely never know the truth, much of what you've outlined certainly does seem plausible. I still feel that if they were deadset on trading Cousins, they didn't have to rush things and would have been better served making it known to other GM's that he was available. Maybe you get a better deal, maybe you don't (due to Cousins agent's statement). But they should have tried. You only get 1 chance to trade your best player. This bogus claim made by many that they had to hurry before Vivek changed his mind doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned. And if it is somehow the truth, then this franchise has much bigger problems going against it than Cousins could have ever given them.
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  22. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    The Pelicans were rumored to also be interested in Okafor

    No promise that the Pelicans deal would have been on the table at the last minute
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  23. peacelate

    peacelate Well-Known Member

    Were the Kings winning? If the Kings were winning 50+ games, you could put up with the headache and volatility in the locker room, but if your maxing out at 35 wins, what is the point? That kind of toxic behavior can hinder development of the young guys.
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  24. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    This is just your opinion.

    There is an alternate scenario in which Vivek and Vlade were inclined to extend Boogie and give him the max. James Ham reported it as a near done deal. Previous to this Vlade met with Boogie and his camp and it was expressed the technicals and transgressions with reporters and night club brawls were concern and part of paying max included showing improvement in these areas and seeking out anger management counseling. Allegedly this is a concession Boogie was willing to consider. Who wouldn't for 209M?!

    After this meeting of the minds and framework of long term marriage he was suspended for one game for his 18th technical and cursed out a fan and gave him double bird after best win of the season vs the Warriors. The guy has zero impulse control when faced the reward of the highest contract in NBA history! The Kings had to ask themselves in what do we place more credence: words or deeds?

    At the All-Star break the team was on the outside cusp of the playoffs (only because no one wanted the 8th spot!) and behavioral issues had not moved in the right direction. It was these confluence of variables that led to Vivek and Vlade to capitulate when trade conversations went from casual to serious in New Orleans. For all we know it was Dell Demps that reached out to Boogie's agent in regards to likelihood of him resigning with New Orleans if they acquired him. You don't know Vlade warned Fagan and tried to "do the decent thing". You are speculating and giving credit he may not deserve. In fact why would Vlade forecast his intentions knowing agent would lose on commission and payday to his client if moved to another team?

    Your supposition is flawed because (1) you don't know Vlade warned Boogie's agent before the trade. His agent was more likely made aware of discussions by the Pelicans, inquiring as to likelihood of his resigning if he were to acquired. (2) Vlade would be stupid to tip off Boogie's agent before the trade was agreed to knowing his preference for SAC and possibility the agent would attempt to block the trade and drive down his value. More likely it was Demps pulling the 2019 1st round pick after he contacted Boogie's agent to inquire about retaining him long term. This is when Fagan played "dirty pool" which others perceive as just an agent looking out for the best interest of his client.

    I present this as my opinion not as fact, but I think is the far more likely scenario.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  25. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    A mentally weak player could never be cornerstone of a championship team. Both viewpoints can't be true.
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  26. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Would you agree that at times this season it looked like Boogie had turned a bit of a corner? Less arguing, more production, better focus etc?

    For him to reach his potential he'd have to continue that change. As it stands now can he be THE guy on a contending team? I personally don't think so. During the Raptors game early this year I had good seats and watched him get mentally taken out of his game and proceed to drift/sleepwalk through the game. I wondered if he could ever be a winner. And then there's nights where you wonder if anyone can stop him or even slow him down.

    No, until he's tougher and more focused mentally Boogie can't be that guy. Can he flip that switch? I don't know, but wasn't that what most of us were pinning our hopes on these last few years?
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  27. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    For Vlade, I don't think he made this decision on a whim. I think he had decided to trade DMC for a while. He planned ahead by drafting Papa at 13, when he already had DMC. I don't think you do that, if you are not thinking about the inevitable of trading DMC. Even DMC was like WTF was that pick for?

    Also, looking at the Veterans he signed and the essentially one year deals for Afflalo and Tolliver, Vlade always had one finger on the re-set button.

    Also, Vlade has already said that his better offer he talked about came from the Pelicans. He explained that N.O. took away a 1st rounder, after Vlade informed DMC's agent and DMC's agent scared off the Pelicans when he told them he wouldn't sign an extension.

    Again, everything is just conjecture on everyones part, but I take Vlade's actions and words and I read between the lines, since we don't have much else to go by.
  28. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    The way I see it, I didn't think he would be moved until at least the 2019 off season when the extension kicked in but since it went down the way it did, once a week or two passed, I saw the trade as logical rather than emotional. The truth of the matter is, in his seven years here, he never changed his ways in terms of attitude, body language & mentality. It was always and always will be "Me against the World" and you can accept it or not. Vlade decided he no longer wanted to deal with it and I respect him for making such a franchise changing move. Whether it pans out for the Kings down the road remains to be seen and all I'm going to say is I was long a Kings fan before Boogie was drafted and long after I will remain a Kings fan. I'll continue to hope and support the young players that get drafted here and hold out hope and optimism that we have something special and we can finally start building a team with purpose, chemistry, character, heart, grit, hustle, etc. all the traits you want to name.
  29. andjel

    andjel Well-Known Member

    Vlade definitely did not always have a finger on the reset button. Philly trade and getting Rondo/Belli/KK is only done if you believe that you can win now.

    During 2015-2016, Vlade drastically changed his view.
    I think that trading Beli for draft pick and trading one first round for two are more telling about that than drafting Papa.
    But that is obvious only after the Cuz trade.
    Do not remember anyone on the board or anywhere that was expecting Cuz to be gone after the new deal for summer talk happened between Vlade and Cuz team.

    There was nothing to read between the lines. He was quite straight forward about not trading Cuz until he traded him. And his what appeared honesty (which turned out to be deceit) was something that was refreshing and was making me trust him.
    Even when mentioning godfather offers, he was quick to downplay it.
    Cuz was not traded for godfather offer.
    After all this, why would anyone trust anything Vlade states publicly from now on?

    To be clear, he can still make Kings great again, and could make all this worth, but trustworthy he is not.
    Any story that assumes Vlade's integrity and trustworthiness has a big flaw.
  30. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I was referring to his actions for this year, 2016-17. I believe he wanted to give it the first half of the year to see what happened. If the Kings were doing great and had a winning record and solidly in the playoffs, I don't think he makes the trade. Being a fringe 8th place team at the break with a sub 0.500 record, he was ready to trade DMC at the deadline.

    I was referring to what he has said since the trade and extrapolating to why he made the trade.
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