Al Horford, would you trade our pick for him even if it goes into top 3?

[KingsCitizen]

The Hawks, without Al Horford, just shocked the Pacers in their first game.
Millsap's game this season, just cemented that PF spot starting.
Hawks will be undersized with Horford and Millsap frontline.
So I think they will be really intrigued with someone like Embiid.

So let's say, we will manage to get a chance to draft either Embiid, Parker or Wiggins would you trade that pick for Al Horford?

I would be all for trading that pick for Horford. He is still best playing PF and that would really be a very big front line for us pairing him with DMC. He is due 24M for the next 2 season which is just about a mil or 2 from Sanders. And he is much better offensively than Sanders.

 

[Turgenev]

I would think a #3 pick would be reasonable value for Al. Wasn't he drafted number 3 x years ago? And has he missed the playoffs yet in his career?

 

[bajaden]

If the pick is Embiid, the answer is no!

 

[Tetsujin]

The Hawks, without Al Horford, just shocked the Pacers in their first game.
Millsap's game this season, just cemented that PF spot starting.
Hawks will be undersized with Horford and Millsap frontline.
So I think they will be really intrigued with someone like Embiid.

So let's say, we will manage to get a chance to draft either Embiid, Parker or Wiggins would you trade that pick for Al Horford?

I would be all for trading that pick for Horford. He is still best playing PF and that would really be a very big front line for us pairing him with DMC. He is due 24M for the next 2 season which is just about a mil or 2 from Sanders. And he is much better offensively than Sanders.

Depends. If we get the first pick, I'd grab Embiid without even stopping to think. If we had the second pick (meaning we still had a semi-reasonable chance at Embiid), then no. If the third pick, I'd stop to think about it and then probably say no.

If we're talking a straight up Embiid for Horford swap, my pick is Embiid every single time.

 

[Gilles]

For #1 and maybe #2 you probably want more value, but for #3 if Kansas' duo is gone? Absolutely, if Landry goes the other way as well.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Horford is a good player, but he's almost the exact opposite of what we need at that position.

 

[upinsmoke]

A resounding YES. Atlanta plays him out of position at the 5 which IMO takes away some of his strengths. Horford and Cousins would be a load to deal with for opposing defenses both being big strong bodies who can out muscle you, clean the glass, run the break and hit from the mid-range and FT line. On Defense Horford is actually quite good he blocks his fair amount of shots but does a lot of the fundamental work well. Atlanta picks 15th so an additional high lotto pick would almost certainly get their attention. Salary wise he's locked in at 12M a yr until the 15/16 summer so he's not cheap so the hawks would undoubtedly have to take salary back (Rudy?)

 

[Big Cuz 15]

A resounding YES. Atlanta plays him out of position at the 5 which IMO takes away some of his strengths. Horford and Cousins would be a load to deal with for opposing defenses both being big strong bodies who can out muscle you, clean the glass, run the break and hit from the mid-range and FT line. On Defense Horford is actually quite good he blocks his fair amount of shots but does a lot of the fundamental work well. Atlanta picks 15th so an additional high lotto pick would almost certainly get their attention. Salary wise he's locked in at 12M a yr until the 15/16 summer so he's not cheap so the hawks would undoubtedly have to take salary back (Rudy?)

you giving them the top 3 pick AND rudy? lets go back to the draft where we picked robinson over drummond and lillard and pick robinson again.

 

[Tetsujin]

you giving them the top 3 pick AND rudy? lets go back to the draft where we picked robinson over drummond and lillard and pick robinson again.

You're right. We should probably throw Cuz in there to sweeten the deal

 

[Big Cuz 15]

You're right. We should probably throw Cuz in there to sweeten the deal

you'd think we're getting KD or LBJ in the trade.

 

[KingMilz]

Horford is a good player, but he's almost the exact opposite of what we need at that position.

A smart player with a automatic jumper/extremely good passer and can play good D, he's the exact opposite of Jason Thompson and is exactly what we need. Although his injury issues are a bit much, Horford is both a top 5 C and top 7-8 PF depending where he plays dude is a monster. Horford and Cousins would be the best PF/C combo in the NBA by a massive margin

I probably would not do it cause of the injury issues but if he were healthy omg yes.

 

[swisshh]

I wouldn't trade Embiid for Horford, but I'd trade Randle for Horford.

 

[JLoss22]

Horford is a good player, but he's almost the exact opposite of what we need at that position.

huh???

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

huh???

A smart player with a automatic jumper/extremely good passer and can play good D, he's the exact opposite of Jason Thompson and is exactly what we need.

An undersized big who can't protect the rim, and takes shots away from Cousins? Uh, no, that is not, in fact, exactly what we need.

 

[JLoss22]

An undersized big who can't protect the rim, and takes shots away from Cousins? Uh, no, that is not, in fact, exactly what we need.

1. He is a good rim protector, he contests a ton of shots and alters them, he's very technically sound.
2. He doesn't needs shots IMO, he would be fine with 9-10 a game, and all of them would be GOOD shots, and he stretches the floor more than JT.
3. He's a good passer, that high low action would be a thing of beauty.
4. Dude is a bruiser and a leader who would fit in perfectly next to Boogie IMO.
5. Plus he has big ole mits so when Boogie sneaks in those passes he can catch and finish, currently they bounce off JT's hands for a turnover smh...

 

[KingMilz]

An undersized big who can't protect the rim, and takes shots away from Cousins? Uh, no, that is not, in fact, exactly what we need.

lmao undersized at the 4 no and he easily holds his own against 5's (shut down Cousins this year), he's blocks 1.5 per game this year and he does not need the ball to score and scores of pick n rolls and putbacks (you can ran the offence through him), honestly this is right up there with your Utah>Portland statement smh. Have you watched Horford play?

 

[jalfa]

1. He is a good rim protector, he contests a ton of shots and alters them, he's very technically sound.
2. He doesn't needs shots IMO, he would be fine with 9-10 a game, and all of them would be GOOD shots, and he stretches the floor more than JT.
3. He's a good passer, that high low action would be a thing of beauty.
4. Dude is a bruiser and a leader who would fit in perfectly next to Boogie IMO.
5. Plus he has big ole mits so when Boogie sneaks in those passes he can catch and finish, currently they bounce off JT's hands for a turnover smh...

co-signed on all of these statements. to further support the first one, Al Horford ranks 10th best in the league as far as percentage allowed at the rim among players that challenge at least as many shots as he does:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTracking...M*GE*7&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC

I'm heavily in favour of getting Horford to pair him up with Cuz, btw, regardless of what player we'd have to give up. even started a thread about this years ago. dude's a friggin beast and still extremely underrated. put him on the same team with Boogie and give them a solid supporting cast and we'd be a playoff lock, imo. it's probably financially unfeasible though, I'm afraid.

 

[KingMilz]

co-signed on all of these statements. to further support the first one, Al Horford ranks 10th best in the league as far as percentage allowed at the rim among players that challenge at least as many shots as he does:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?SeasonType=Regular Season&Season=2013-14&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*7&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC

I'm heavily in favour of getting Horford to pair him up with Cuz, btw, regardless of what player we'd have to give up. even started a thread about this years ago. dude's a friggin beast and still extremely underrated. put him on the same team with Boogie and give them a solid supporting cast and we'd be a playoff lock, imo. it's probably financially unfeasible though, I'm afraid.

Honestly replace Horford instead of Gay and move Williams to SF with some improvement from Mclemore and IT staying the same we could easily be a 8th seed imo, Horfords ability to pass means we can let IT be a scoring PG and IT is actually pretty decent at pick n pop's (did really well with Landry) which Horford is a master at, Cousins goes down deep waiting for offensive rebounds and post catches that's as unguradable as it gets. You have a guy who can put up the numbers Gay puts up and do it without killing the offense and being better in pretty much every aspect of basketball and will never take stupid shots while seeing the floor.

Horfords passing ability would make everyone better in particular Mclemore and Williams that would also gives us TWO bigs who can ran a fastbreak. Horford literally goes with every single PF/C we have on the roster.

With Cousins/Landry he's a spot up shooter/passer and solid defender similar to Marc Gasol (not as good defense off course)
With JT/Reggie he's the go to guy on off pick n rolls/pops with IT or Ray Mac which allow plenty of space for JT/Evans to crash the glass off his misses.

I see no reason why Cousins/Horford combined cannot be as good on D if not better than Gasol/Z-Bo both Cuz and Al are better defenders than Z-Bo which makes up for Gasol being a beast and on offence both are more efficent than the Memphis pair and together they are a better passing duo.

 

[Tetsujin]

Honestly replace Horford instead of Gay and move Williams to SF with some improvement from Mclemore and IT staying the same we could easily be a 8th seed imo, Horfords ability to pass means we can let IT be a scoring PG and IT is actually pretty decent at pick n pop's (did really well with Landry) which Horford is a master at, Cousins goes down deep waiting for offensive rebounds and post catches that's as unguradable as it gets. You have a guy who can put up the numbers Gay puts up and do it without killing the offense and being better in pretty much every aspect of basketball and will never take stupid shots while seeing the floor.

Horfords passing ability would make everyone better in particular Mclemore and Williams that would also gives us TWO bigs who can ran a fastbreak. Horford literally goes with every single PF/C we have on the roster.

With Cousins/Landry he's a spot up shooter/passer and solid defender similar to Marc Gasol (not as good defense off course)
With JT/Reggie he's the go to guy on off pick n rolls/pops with IT or Ray Mac which allow plenty of space for JT/Evans to crash the glass off his misses.

I see no reason why Cousins/Horford combined cannot be as good on D if not better than Gasol/Z-Bo both Cuz and Al are better defenders than Z-Bo which makes up for Gasol being a beast and on offence both are more efficent than the Memphis pair and together they are a better passing duo.

I have no idea where all this "Derrick Williams is one break away from being a star" talk (this isn't necessarily aimed at you) is coming from but it should probably stop. I am by no means declaring him a bust but he has been ridiculously inconsistent throughout his career with performances ranging from "Whee!" (the times we played against the T-Wolves, that game against Dallas) to "Well, that was underwhelming" (most of the time). I understand you think Rudy Gay isn't that great but he is undeniably better than D-Will, both on defense (D-Will has IT "The ball isn't directly in front of me so I'm just going to stand around" syndrome at times and will look for fast break opportunities to his detriment) and on offense (Gay's shot selection isn't awesome but it's better than Williams and he's more likely to make them)

 

[upinsmoke]

I have no idea where all this "Derrick Williams is one break away from being a star" talk (this isn't necessarily aimed at you) is coming from but it should probably stop. I am by no means declaring him a bust but he has been ridiculously inconsistent throughout his career with performances ranging from "Whee!" (the times we played against the T-Wolves, that game against Dallas) to "Well, that was underwhelming" (most of the time). I understand you think Rudy Gay isn't that great but he is undeniably better than D-Will, both on defense (D-Will has IT "The ball isn't directly in front of me so I'm just going to stand around" syndrome at times and will look for fast break opportunities to his detriment) and on offense (Gay's shot selection isn't awesome but it's better than Williams and he's more likely to make them)

Individually Rudy is obviously more skilled than Williams but I for one enjoyed how the team played with Williams logging more mins. I also think in the long term it would serve Ben and Ray better in their development not to mention a better use of the cap with Horford at 12M and Williams at 6.3M.

 

[Chupacabra]

Horford and Cousins would end up occupying the same space thus rendering each of them about half as effective as they otherwise would be on there own. It wouldn't really address our need of a rim protecting help defender.So no.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Horford and Cousins would end up occupying the same space thus rendering each of them about half as effective as they otherwise would be on there own. It wouldn't really address our need of a rim protecting help defender.So no.

You must not have read this?

Al Horford ranks 10th best in the league as far as percentage allowed at the rim among players that challenge at least as many shots as he does:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?SeasonType=Regular Season&Season=2013-14&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*7&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC
.

There may only be one or two players in existence that both space the floor next to Cousins on offense and can be the anchor next to Cousins on defense. I don't think this team can afford to wait for one of them, and if prepared to sacrifice spacing or defense, I'm sacrificing spacing. I think concerns about the two fitting on offense are overblown, anyway.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

lmao undersized at the 4 no and he easily holds his own against 5's (shut down Cousins this year), he's blocks 1.5 per game this year and he does not need the ball to score and scores of pick n rolls and putbacks (you can ran the offence through him), honestly this is right up there with your Utah>Portland statement smh. Have you watched Horford play?

I would bet the price of a very good lunch that I've seen Horford play more NBA games than everyone else on this board put together. I've seen every single Hawks game since the year before he was drafted; Hell, due to blackouts and the handful of games that weren't available on League Pass, I've seen more Hawks games in the last eight years than I have Kings games. Horford hasn't played a game in the NBA that I haven't watched.

I stand by my assessment; I've seen everything you claim to have seen, but I obviously don't see it the same way.

 

[Hoovtrain]

You must not have read this?


There may only be one or two players in existence that both space the floor next to Cousins on offense and can be the anchor next to Cousins on defense. I don't think this team can afford to wait for one of them, and if prepared to sacrifice spacing or defense, I'm sacrificing spacing. I think concerns about the two fitting on offense are overblown, anyway.

This. The talk of Horford and Cuz not being able to play together and Horford taking away Cuz's shots is a asinine

 

[Gary]

I would bet the price of a very good lunch that I've seen Horford play more NBA games than everyone else on this board put together. I've seen every single Hawks game since the year before he was drafted; Hell, due to blackouts and the handful of games that weren't available on League Pass, I've seen more Hawks games in the last eight years than I have Kings games. Horford hasn't played a game in the NBA that I haven't watched.

I stand by my assessment; I've seen everything you claim to have seen, but I obviously don't see it the same way.

Wow.... wow..... If you have watched all of his games then you would know he's a defensive big that is NOT undersized at the PF position (6'10 in shoes) and that he is a great passer at PF/C (he would play PF here). I have no idea if you weren't wearing glasses when watching him, and I don't claim to have seen every game like you do (which I suspect is not more than flipping through games like I do nightly) then you would know all of this. Hell, I only watch a handful of Hawks games a year and I know all this. Maybe you're mixing up al jefferson with al horford? You claim to be "in the know" yet you're assessment is totally backwards.

That being said I wouldn't trade a top 3 pick for Horford if we had a chance to get Wiggins or Embiid..

 

[VF21]

...I have no idea if you weren't wearing glasses when watching him, and I don't claim to have seen every game like you do (which I suspect is not more than flipping through games like I do nightly) then you would know all of this. Hell, I only watch a handful of Hawks games a year and I know all this. Maybe you're mixing up al jefferson with al horford? You claim to be "in the know" yet you're assessment is totally backwards...

So you're gonna take that tack in your debate over the merits of Horford? Have you met Slim? He doesn't flip through games, dude. He watches Hawks games because they're the local NBA franchise for him.

 

[KingMilz]

Horford and Cousins would end up occupying the same space thus rendering each of them about half as effective as they otherwise would be on there own. It wouldn't really address our need of a rim protecting help defender.So no.

1# Al Horford has very high IQ (very adaptable) and can space the floor like Patrick Patterson did while being way better at everything else, how do they take up the same space that's not true. The only way they take up the same space is if you want Cousins to keep bricking mid range jumpers like he has for the past 4 years.
2# Cousins is really not much of a screener and really our pick and rolls are dreadful, he's a lot better isolating and going berserk on someone, Horford on the other hand is a beast in the pick n roll.
3# Horford can literally play any role as a big man and he will do what is required to fit next to Cousins and won't fight him cause he's the type of player who will do everything to help you win.

Rudy Gay posts up the same/more than Al Horford and yet no one's saying he takes Cousins space, JT takes away Cousins space hell any shot blocker aside from Ibaka would take away more space from Cousins than Horford. They are completely different players one gets his points within the flow of the game (Horford) and Cousins you just give the ball to and get out of the way and let him force it to draw doubles.

 

[KingMilz]

So you're gonna take that tack in your debate over the merits of Horford? Have you met Slim? He doesn't flip through games, dude. He watches Hawks games because they're the local NBA franchise for him.

You can watch something all you want does not mean you understand it any better than someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[VF21]

You can watch something all you want does not mean you understand it any better than someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Oh ouch. Such a burn. I'm sure Slim will be devastated.

 

[KingMilz]

Oh ouch. Such a burn. I'm sure Slim will be devastated.

Not trying to burn anyone, just making a point just cause you watch something more than someone else does not mean you will always understand it better.