PG for the Kings

He isn't a good defender, but he's a pretty dang good scorer and shooter. Good player who knows how to fit with a star and not take too much of the spotlight. The issue is he really doesn't provide anything different than Barnes, Afflalo, Casspi or Temple already give.

CJ Miles is a nice player, but I am not sure if I like it. He can shoot the ball sure, but I never was too impressed when I watched the Pacers play. I just feel like in this instance we are moving players in order to move them, but not for any legitimate purpose outside of that.

I let this go without comment, but it should be noted that back when the Indiana rumors popped up a month ago somebody (possibly Ham or Jones) had it from the horse's mouth that we were specifically NOT interested in either Ellis or Stuckey.

Do they want Rudy? They guy they have playing SF now is pretty good

I'm sorry, but Stuckey is terrible. Pretty sure Indiana would be doing laps around the field if we offered Gay for Stuckey and Miles. Do we really need more vets who add completely nothing to our future?

Is Garett Temple, Arron Afflalo, Matt Barnes, and Anthony scrub Tolliver not enough?

Yep, they want Rudy. They tried trading us their 20th? pick, but we said no.

I guess it would be Teague-George-Gay-Young-Turner. Not sure how that works though. BUT no damn way should we trade Rudy for a bunch of vets who add nothing for us. Seriously. A team of

Collison/Stuckey
Afflalo/Temple/Miles
Barnes/Casspi
WCS/Tolliver
Cousins/Koufos

is freaking terrible. You basically have Cousins and nobody else. Afflalo needs to be your #4 option on offense. The dude was so damn selfish last year. He constantly took shots away from Porzingis.

If we trade Rudy, we might as well just trade him for a young up and coming piece like Cameron Payne. Not bench players declining. Beyond terrible trade imo.

So far the only PG I have heard mentioned I would trade Gay for is Dragic. I like Bledsoe but he is too injury prone. Would have liked George Hill or Jeff Teague but those two already switched teams. Keeping Rudy and signing Beno, Chalmers or Cole is looking like the right move at this point. It will not hurt a thing if Rudy, Kosta and Ben are on the roster in November Lace them up and lets PLAY BALL!

Stuckey is not terrible when healthy he 's one of the best bench players in the NBA and you have CJ Miles behind Temple in the rotation which is simple not true imo since CJ along with AA and Casspi are our best 3 wings by far when you remove Gay..

You also say Indiana would be doing laps if they got that offer well I'm sure Toronto felt the same when they gave up little to nothing to get him only like us to find out what Memphis knew all along that Rudy is talented but his lack of mental toughness/heart completely negates th at and with a past prime limited Tayshaun Prince advanced further. We were also running laps when we gave up "trash" like Patterson/Vasquez/Salmons/Hayes to get him and helped (the move itself) Toronto become a powerhouse in the East.

I'm not saying CJ Miles/Stuckey is a great return but it's much better/as good as what Toronto/Memphis got for Rudy. Rudy Gay has become like Jason Thompson on here where he's apparently so valuable you cant afford to move him even if he never helps you actually win. We got enough fire power with Cousins/Casspi/AA/CJ/Stuckey/Collison to score you got 1 elite scorer and 5-6 other guys who can comfortable score in double figures given the chance.

If the proposed trade back then was Rudy straight up for Ellis and Stuckey I totally understand why we werent interested. As Vlade said, if a deal doesnt make us better we won't do it. But the question is if that changed with Rudys interview. Vlade also said that you are either in or out and Rudy definitely seems to be out. I guess that is why we now see reports that Vlade met with Rudy. He tries to get him to buy in.

I just laugh when people bring Rudy's past trades as indication that teams get better when they trade him because he is mystically this player that somehow sucks the life out of a team. Simply not true.

When Memphis traded Gay he was coming off a serious shoulder injury (reconstruction wasn't it) and anyone who has had one would know that it takes a fair while to regain the motion. His shooting percentage was down as a result. He was still regaining his feel for the game and motion in the shoulder. There is absolutely no evidence what so ever that the team was better with Prince than they would have been with Gay in the long term. Its just a symplictic analysis that gee they traded Gay and they started winning while still blatantly ignoring the comeback from injury factor.

Then he gets traded to Toronto where he gets asked to be a #1 option which he clealry is not and to top it off, to play PF which he also is not. On top of that he is on a team with 2 other scorers that need the ball to be effective and a big man that that scores himself. Somehow, 3.5 scorers in the same team didn't exactly fit and they had no bench depth. What they did was trade him to get that match depth because clearly he was not #1 option, nor was he a PF. It provided more balance to the team and more flow to the offence becase there was one less scorer on the floor that needed the ball. It had nothing to do with him sucking the life out of the team and everything to do with the fact that Gay and DeRozen are too similar as players and both needed a good number of shots to get their points. Tornoto rightly went with the younger, at the time much cheaper option. Its common sense.

With us it is clearly completely different that either of his previous teams. We are not asking him to be #1 option, nor are we asking him to play PF (Karl insanity aside). What we need him to be is exactly what he is. A very capable #2 option on a team who can play some really solid defence in the right system and the right coach. His FG% and his efficiency improved in Sacramento because he was not expected to be #1 option nor did we need him to be a PF. Last season not only was he played put of position for good chunks of the season, but he didn't get anywhere near as many shots as he normally would and he just checked out with all the drama that was going on around the team.

If Joerger can connect with Gay like Malone did and use him in a similar manner, then I have no doubt that we will see Rudy Gay of his early days in Sacramento. An efficient #2 scoring opption at SF who can play some good defense and create his own shot. He also had his career high assits numbers at some stage as well.

The problem seems to be that Rudy got so pissed off at the franchise in last 18 months and the circus surrounding the fanchise that he simply has had enough and wants out. To him there is no guarantee that Joerger will work out. Why is he any different that Malone, Corbin or Karl. He knows Joerger and might think he is a great coach but he simply cannot trust the ownership and their impulsive bullcrap to give this another go. If anything this team has got him to sign an extension at a bit of a discount only to fire the coach that was the very reason he re-signed here. Since then it has turned into a bigger circus than in the Later Maloof years of will they or won't they move the team.

The horse might have bolted with Rudy and the Kings but to think that we would get better by trading him for a bunch of role players or a bunch of 3 and D guys who provide no real point of difference is simply a fantasy. We were there before we got Rudy from Toronto and it was very ugly. Its not going to be much prettier this time around.

I think you make some great points and tend to agree with everything you said outside of the bolded parts.
I really doubt Rudy's ability to be part of a solid defensive team at this point.
And trading Rudy for a capable 3 and D guy is not the same as starting John Salmons at SF.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I hate going back to Malone days because you get smart asses coming up with the "9-6" replies. However, Gay has played some damn fine defense for Michael Malone. No one can deny that. In fact he was a key member of the team statistically had the best defensive starting 5 for in the league (Collison-McLemore-Gay-Thompson-Cousins). It's about the system and the culture which we are obviously changing in the defensive direction. He is by no means a lock down defender but he can be a very solid defender and he is not going to be a liability out there in those circumstances.

In terms of 3 and D, it would have to be an elite 3 and D player if you are trading Gay. I think you misinterpreted my intention with that last paragraph. I wasn't talking in temrs of a starting SF but more from the point of view that it was very ugly from positional perspective but from and offensive point of view when we lacked a genuine #2 scoring options that team needed to give a fair bit of respect to. Lose Gay and Cousins is our only genuine scoring option with some, very little help from Collison and maybe, and I mean maybe Afflalo.

Discussing the Malone stretch simply doesn't make sense anymore. You believe it's possible to repeat that - I don't. Like I said in another thread - Rudy Gay has almost every tool you need to be a great defender (I don't know if he actually has the foot speed to pick up smaller guys). It's in his head and I simply don't believe it can be fixed. He is way too focused on the offensive side of the court.

And regarding the #2 options - there are quite a few teams without what I would consider a #2 option, that won more games than the Kings. It's handy to have another player to throw the ball to, that can make something happen on his own.
But is it necessary to get into the Playoffs? I don't know for sure, but I personally think that versatile defense out of every position is more important.

So the year the 8th seed Grizzlies beat the Spurs when Rudy Gay was hurt did not indicate anything? They also played the exact same Clippers teams (minus Reggie Evans) 2 years in a row and the year he played lost. Shoulder injury had zero to do with it, it fact his shoulder injury was a blessing to Memphis they finally saw through the talent. I'm sick of the excuses good players make it work in tough situations (good players can actually adjust hell even Monta Ellis adjusted in Indiana last year) and Rudy is not that.

Personally, I'd rather keep Gay and let Koufos and Ben go. I think Rudy can, when motivated, be a very good player. The Kings' front office needs to mend any hurt feels and move forward with Rudy as the second scoring option, IMHO.

Here's the thing though. That Raptors team still had DeRozan and Lowry. The Memphis team still had Gasol, Z-bo, and Conley.

Get rid of Gay, and the only star we have left is Cousins.

It makes no sense for us to trade Rudy for that terrible deal.

Stuckey is a bit injury prone, and he's not a great shooter. Another ball dominant type of player. Miles is just an offensive player at this point. Both of these guys add nothing to our team. Maybe Stuckey does, but you're not going to trade Gay for that package. We don't need to.

If we trade Gay, it should be for a younger player. Ideally, you want a starting PG, but we all know he's not going to net us that back.

So after signing Demitrius Jackson, they also have Rozier,Smart,IT,Bradley and weird part is when I add Green,Crowder and Jackson to the 13 guar salary on hoops hype that is 16 contracts?

How about Rozier or Smart for Ben? One disappointing 1st rd pick for another?

Yeah I wish LOL

Rozier for Koufas might work, but not for Ben

Also Toronto has 4 pg, with Kyle and Corey as rotation guards and a 3rd and 4th PGs with only two SG maybe Delon Wright for Ben
They still have 4th PG and we trade Ben for depth at SG for them, and a backup PG for us?

OK here is a wild one!!

Kings Rudy/Koufos to Bucks
Bucks Monroe/MCW to NO
NO Reke and Jrue to the kings

Kings get 2 PG on one yr lots of cap space, sign one of the two for next yr
Bucks ship off Monroe and MCW gets Rudy plus LT Koufos Center they need
NO get rid of 2 oft injured Guards and bring Home Monroe

Worked on real GM

PG Jrue,DC,Reke
SG Affalo, Ben, Lamar,Malachi
SF Casspi,Barnes, Temple
PF WCS, Tolliver, Skal
C Cuz, Papa

Even with Rudy Gay the only star we have is Cousins, maybe cause Rudy is a expiring contract you might be able to get something for him but as history has shown and as every team has realised by now he doesn't hold that much value despite all his gifts/talents. Maybe a team desperate for scoring who foolishly think he can put them over the top might be able to give us something of value back, I keep seeing we need a elite 3 and D guy/young stud back for Rudy but he's simply not worth that.

OK that is too SG heavy, take out Lamar (nonguaranteed) And Sign Larry Sanders to a min contract LOLOL

I don't want two injury prone guards. We have already tried the Reke experiment.

Aren't we getting desperate salivating over 3rd and 4th tier guards?
Mark my word, Westbrook signs 1 year rental with the Kings, captures a title raining on Durant's parade and returns to back Oklahoma.

What about Mario Chalmers?

I think the injury he is coming back from is pretty major especially at that age but if all is clear, he would be my #1 choice for obvious reasons.

Having said that, he is one of those guys that would rather wait until closer to the training camp and sign with a contender if at all possible

sometimes the table scraps are really tasty when the stomach rumbles

I hear Derek is available HAHAHAHA oh Hell NO

Derek Fisher to try comeback as a player?

Ex-New York Knicks coach Derek Fisher hinted at a possible comeback on Tuesday night when he posted a workout video with the hashtag “Imnotdoneyet.” Sources told ESPN Wednesday that Fisher has indeed been “exploring options and expressing interest in playing again.”
– via ESPN

Everyone wants some more money after this crazy offseason! That said, Derek, you should stay retired and I still "strongly dislike" you; I was quite happy when you left the game and I would prefer it to stay that way, you damn Laker.

I would have see him prove it in training camp before the check was written.

That said the Kings have Matt Barnes inked to a deal and I don't see Matt and Fish doing the coexist thing on the same team.

Oops yeah forgot about that - well then thats a real big Hell No
Dont have to worry about that - let him go to china with Jimmer LOL