Orlando Trade Idea (Koufos/Collison for Frye/Oladipo)

I'm starting out with a list of my own trade premises here just to clarify what I'm looking for in trades this season:

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(1) I want to make the playoffs this year, I'm not trading any of our core guys.
For me that means Cousins, Gay and Rondo are off the table.

(2) I'm also not trading either of our young players with long-term potential.
That means 22 year olds Cauley-Stein and McLemore are both off the table.

(3) Omri Casspi has value as a locker-room presence, Boogie whisperer, and
all-around good guy that exceeds his (considerable) value as a basketball player.
Also he's on a team friendly deal. He stays.

(4) Our biggest trade chips are veteran players, we can't trade draft picks.
So I'm looking for other teams on the playoff bubble who are motivated to
make changes and might be targeting vets.

(5) You can rule out Western Conference bubble teams because we don't
want to be helping any of them.

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So with that being said, here's the first trade idea I came up with -- this time targeting Orlando:



Orlando is 3 1/2 games back with some tough competition ahead of them. Reportedly they're looking for veterans and they might be willing to trade Oladipo, who hasn't really fit with their other pieces, in order to get an All-Star or at least someone that will push them into the 8 seed in the East. They've been trying to slide Oladipo between both backcourt spots to keep Fournier and Hezonja on the floor and they're also lacking in toughness and size inside. That second part is what might give us an opportunity. We need to make some changes and both Collison (Karl's favorite smallball SG) and Koufos (just 16 min per game over the last 5 games) are proving to be awkward fits on this current roster.

Let's look at what we're giving up:

Collison is not a player I want to trade, but the reality is that we have to give value to get value. He's shooting the lights out right now (.660/.538/.920 in his last 5 games) which pushes his season averages up to .475/.381/.846 and surely gives him some significant value. He also has experience as a starting PG, excelling in that position all last year (16.1 pts, 5.6 assts, 3.2 rebs, 1.5 stls, .473/.373/.788) and could help mentor Elfrid Payton while also giving them more shooting at the position. Since George Karl is basically just using him as scoring punch off the bench primarily at SG this year anyway, maybe we should trade him for an actual SG and find minutes for Seth Curry (and his 42% three point shooting) as the backup PG.

Koufos is the kind of rock solid veteran that a coach like Scott Skiles will be looking for. He's one of our best defenders but that's also part of the problem -- all of our best defenders are bigs. With Cauley-Stein and Acy providing energy and defense at the same positions, Koufos is a little redundant in our rotation right now. He also has 3 more years on his contract at escalating money (8 million, 8.5 million, 9 million player option). If Koufos is going to get squeezed out of the rotation, that's money we could spend more effectively elsewhere.

Let's look at what we're getting:

Frye has always been a one-trick pony, it just happens to be a trick that we're looking for right now. If we shift the front court rotation to emphasize our three best defenders (Cousins, Cauley-Stein, and Acy) as the primary pieces, the only thing which is really missing is a stretch 4. Channing Frye has a career average of 39% from deep and this season he's currently shooting 40%. With or without George Karl he'd have a role on this team.

Oladipo is the hardest sell with this trade proposal because he's the best overall player in the deal. Why would a team looking to improve trade a quality young player? Well, that's where the "it's complicated" part comes in. There are games where he looks like Russell Westbrook light. A ball hawking pest on defense and an explosive athlete who can score in bunches. Just last week he dropped 37 points, 7 rebounds, and 4 assists on OKC in a crazy track meet of a game. There are also games where he tries to do too much and goes 3 for 12, 1 for 10, 2 for 11. He's prone to making mistakes with the ball in crunch time. He shoots a lot and doesn't hit a very impressive percentage (.416/.346/.837) -- those aren't embarrassing numbers, they're right about where All-Star Isaiah Thomas is at this season -- but they're inefficient, especially from a position where you traditionally expect scoring efficiency.

It's the same mixed bag you see from most young players. Flashes of greatness tied to inconsistency and growing pains. If your backup SG is currently a black hole of suck like ours is though, pretty much anything would be an improvement. We can hide an inconsistent young player assuming he plays defense and moves the ball, both of which are true here. Orlando has used him as a combo guard out of necessity but they'd probably benefit from steadier leadership at PG. This trade gives them an opportunity to shore up two big weaknesses -- post defense and PG depth -- with reliable veterans without forking out any money. They'd be sacrificing some future potential for two pieces who fit their current roster better and give them a chance to compete for the playoffs right now. In terms of immediate impact, Darren Collison replaces most of what Oladipo is giving them only with better shooting percentages and Koufos is a clear upgrade to Frye defensively. Everybody wins!

So here's our new lineup after the trade--

PG .. Rondo/Curry
SG .. McLemore/Oladipo
SF ... Gay/Casspi
PF ... Acy/Cauley-Stein
C ..... Cousins/Frye

What the hell? You're picking up Oladipo and then putting him on the bench backing up Ben? Hear me out. Rudy Gay is trending up (40% in the last 5 games) but he's not hitting the three at a great rate this year. 36% is a career high for Rondo. I'd love it if he could maintain that post-All-Star break but the safer bet is he'll come down from there a bit. We need McLemore in the starting lineup because he's a more consistent 3pt threat than Oladipo and we need at least 1 consistent threat in the starting lineup, even if Rondo, Gay, Cousins, and Acy are all fringey decent 3pt shooters in their own right. Bringing Victor off the bench with a trio of 40% shooters in Curry, Casspi, and Frye would take the pressure off of him as a spot up threat and he can be more of a shot creator instead. Basically he's be playing the same role that Darren Collison is currently playing, just with less time handling the ball and no defensive compromises. I could be persuaded to change my mind on this though.

Still not sure what we do with Belinelli... but that'll have to wait until a different day.

I mentioned Oladipo as a potential trade target a couple of weeks ago. I think he's the type of player the Kings desperately need. I can take or leave Frye, though.

Orlando does not even pick up the phone, Fyre is one year less on his contract as well than KK. The Magic have Vucevic /Smith/Dedmon and are trying to develop Gordon at PF/SF not sure what they would do with Kosta. Victor > DC

Would love to have Oladipo, but I'd rather not give up Collison. With not knowing the status of Rondo for next season, I have to keep Collison as insurance. I'm also afraid that if we were to obtain Frye, it would reduce Willie's minutes. The last thing we need is to give Karl another offensive player that doesn't play defense. I'd hate to trade Omri, but I'd do it to get Oladipo.

This is the one trade proposal that made me stop to look and consider. Thanks for putting real thought into it.

I'm a little surprised you're not in favor of this baja, since part of the reasoning for trading Collison and Koufos is to open up more playing time for Curry and Cauley-Stein, two guys that you've been saying you'd like to see more.

I think this solves a lot of problems for us. Rondo has seized a bigger role than anticipated which means Collison gets most of his playing time at the 2, a bad look for us defensively. With this trade we're finding more playing time for good defenders (Curry, Acy, WCS, Oladipo) without giving up any shooting (Curry, Acy, and Frye replace Belinelli, Collison, and Koufos) and our worst defender (Marco) gets pushed completely out of the rotation.

In the frontcourt, Acy and Cauley-Stein are both mobile and aggressive which seems to play better against the undersized lineups most teams are fielding right now. Kosta just doesn't have much of a role. Frye is mostly a throw-in here to match salaries. He only has 1 year remaining on his deal (the ESPN trade checker is inaccurate there) and it goes down in value next year while Kosta's keeps going up. I only see him getting 10 minutes per game as a floor spacer.

Obviously I'm not a fan of the job George Karl has done so far. If he benches WCS for Frye, fire him. No skin off my back I'm not interested in appeasing him. But with our without Karl we need to solve some problems here. Belinelli shouldn't be getting any minutes the way he's playing which opens up a need for another SG. Koufos looks like a poor fit with Cauley-Stein already replacing him in the rotation halfway through his rookie season and yet we have Koufos for 3 more years. He risks turning into a wasted asset if we bench him and let his value plummet.

Lastly, Oladipo will be a restricted FA when his contract expires in a year since he was the same draft year as Ben while Darren will be an unrestricted FA. That makes him a lot easier to keep than Darren who will likely bolt for a larger role elsewhere. If Ben and Victor both excel, one is the starter and the other is the sixth man. If one of them struggles than you keep the other one. Having both of them is a nice insurance policy for the future of the SG position.

The Orlando side is harder to figure. The only way it makes sense is as a 2 for 1 deal. Collison and Koufos for Oladipo and sunk cost. I skimmed some fan boards and there are mixed opinions on Oladipo this year. Most want to keep him, he's got star potential after all, but quite a few think Fournier and Hezonja are better bets for the future at SG making Oladipo a man without a position. They tried him at PG his rookie season and it did not go well. Frye is seen as trade bait, not a key part of their rotation.

The report last week was Orlando offered Oladipo for Jeff Teague. He was an All-Star last year but is he really that much better than Darren Collison? Skiles is a defensive coach and he doesn't seem all that enamored with any of his backup centers. Frye is getting 17 min per game, Smith 15 and Dedmon 10. Only Frye is signed past this year and he's 32 already and gone at the end of next year. Koufos is younger, better, and signed for longer. He can help stabilize their big rotation, splitting the C position with Vucevic while Gordon and Nicholson get the PF minutes.

Anyway, it was just one idea. I'm skimming other Eastern Conference bubble teams to come up with other suggestions.

In answering the original post and the question of is Teague really better than Collison.....the trade proposal is somethinge that could feasibly work for both teams. Orlando has been looking for interior defense like a Koufos, Collison would be a better fit since he's a better PG skill guy than Oladipo. Frye is not sexy but he hits the longball, is very good at it. Oladipo would be a tremendous upgrade in our backcourt defense.

Is Teague better than Collison? He is better but it depends on what type of PG skills your looking for.

Certainly a proposal that could help and I don't know the contract status for Frye but next year could get one of the 2nd rounders from our Philly trade to potentially come over and take that spot.

I can't see Orlando going for a Collison/Koufos for Oladipo/Frye deal.

It makes sense for us because WCS can backup Cousins, and Frye could slot into the PF slot to give us that stretch four. And Oladipo would arguably be an upgrade at SG because he's defensively better than McLemore and without the burden of being a go to player that should help him, or worse case scenario he adds a lot of energy and ability off the bench.

For Orlando it only makes sense if they believe Collison could become an all star PG for them (similar to IT in Boston). Koufos would back up Vucevic, no way he starts over their existing big man, and unlikely they'd pair them both together. Problem is, I'm not sure Collison is a future all star. He's talented and would improve their starting line up over Payton, but would they stunt their young guys'development for a decent player but not an all star? I doubt it. So Collison and Koufos would be upgrades for their bench, and to be honest, I doubt they give up Oladipo for that considering he could still be a decent starter for them down the line or be used in a trade to get an actual upgrade like a potential all stator borderline all star from another team.

That said, I'd like Oladipo to come here. I also wouldn't mind us acquiring Fournier, he could be a good add to our SG position.

Uh, this has absolutely no prayer of happening. Dipo would net far more than just Collison and kosta koufos. As far as I know, he's not a disgruntled player. Which would make them sell extremely low.

You have to give up wcs if you want dipo.

Orlando just traded Tobias Harris for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova so it's a moot point now. They have their veteran PG and I assume Ilyasova is their new starting SF. They're still looking a little thin at SF but I don't think trading Rudy Gay helps us in any way, so cross Orlando off the list of potential trading partners. Probably Detroit too.

I'm not totally against it, just thinking out loud. I really like Collison, but as a PG and not a SG, which is how Karl is using him a lot of the time. My Frye comments are somewhat in jest, but it does scare me to give Karl a 7 foot player that can shoot the three. However, the jewel of the trade is Oladipo, who I would love to have. I guess I rather include McLemore instead of Collison. If Curry had gotten the chance to prove himself, I'd be less hesitant to trade Collison.

Their gm just said they aren't trading any of their core guys, including dipo