Training Camp Thread

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#91
People here claim it's Cousins playing with fire...that's fine and all but there needs to be a fine line between playing with fire and taking yourself out of the game by yelling at the ref and receiving technical fouls. His body language does get frustrating to watch if calls aren't going his way but that's not to say he can't channel his emotions and take it out on the opponent instead.
He will always get frustrated and he will always get technical fouls. The good ones always do - except maybe Tim Duncan, who is a robot. :)

I think we'll see a more focused DMC, who isn't frustrated because he's the only one of the court showing any passion. We'll see a more focused DMC, who doesn't have to bear the weight of an entire team on his shoulders. We'll see a more focused DMC, who knows his coach has his back.

Sometimes a technical foul can be just the motivation needed to fire up the rest of the team. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement in this regard, but I think a couple of posters around here (not necessarily you) just cannot find it within themselves to give Cousins even a little bit of slack in anything he does.
 
#92
Agreed the team quit by January. Honestly I prob would have too. But I think the vets will turn the attitude around at least initially. Fingers crossed.
As much as I believe that the right decision at many points last year was to re-hire Malone, I expect that the renewed hope got them to move forward. But I will never forget the early season Kings last year, so exciting to come out of nowhere without any positive hype or negative hype.
 
#93
Mature? Emotional leader? Those aren't things most experts around the league would label him as. His antics are very IMMATURE and I personally believe that one of his biggest weaknesses is that he's not a leader. IMO, leaders don't act like children when some non NBA ref makes a crappy call in a SCRIMMAGE. I liked what George Karl said when asked about DMC's emotions. He said that he felt that showing negative emotions on the court is a sign of weakness. I couldn't agree more. I get that it's going to happen from time to time over a long season but he has about 6-7 of these outbursts just about every game. It has to stop if he's going to take his game and the team to the next level.
I watch many of the better NBA players argue EVERY CALL night in, night out. Check out these numbers
 
Just a reminder
Technical foul leaders 14/15 : http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls
Technical foul leaders 13/14 : http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls/year/2014

I don't remember anyone questioning Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook mental health... while they have around the same amount of technical fouls than Boogie...

So I stand with my "Never change Boogie".
Keep as passionate as you are, I don't care about the tech.
 
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Mature? Emotional leader? Those aren't things most experts around the league would label him as. His antics are very IMMATURE and I personally believe that one of his biggest weaknesses is that he's not a leader. IMO, leaders don't act like children when some non NBA ref makes a crappy call in a SCRIMMAGE. I liked what George Karl said when asked about DMC's emotions. He said that he felt that showing negative emotions on the court is a sign of weakness. I couldn't agree more. I get that it's going to happen from time to time over a long season but he has about 6-7 of these outbursts just about every game. It has to stop if he's going to take his game and the team to the next level.
With all due respect, but those "experts" are constantly repeating the same story, mostly because they are too lazy to actually spend time to get into a topic. Instead they are repeating the same superficial social media BS over and over again until those kind of prejudices against a player become some kind of common sense, that every basketball fan just accepts, because every "expert" said it.
Cousins was labeled immature from the beginning. He was painted as some kind of villain because of very few actual incidents and his emotional gameplay. What always stood out to me in this debate, is the way those things are blown out of proportion.

First of all - to become one of the best big man, to become so skilled like DMC, to add so many things to your game you have to work extremely hard. And common sense tells us, that a young man, who sets goals for himself and works his a.. off, to reach them, is a mature person. There are very few NBA players, who just won the genetic lottery and are in the league because of that. But Cousins is not one of them. To paint someone that driven and hard working as immature is simply insulting and ridiculous.

Secondly there are many ways to motivate oneself to reach goals or to compete in sports or life in general. Some people are fueled from positive emotions. Some people use anger and frustration to get to the next level. I'm by no means a great athlete, but when playing sports or training for a certain goal, it was always the moment of failure and the frustration that comes with it, that kept me going. I'm in my 40's now and got into powerlifting 10 years ago. When stepping onto the bar, I don't think about the great feelings I had, when I actually made a successful lift. I think about the times when I failed, I get angry and I use this anger to channel my energy and to lift the weigth up.
My wife always tells me, that I look kinda scary when I lift and I really need time to calm myself after a lift, but in my sport anger and emotions are part of the game and nobody will paint you as weak because you scream, shout and grunt while lifting.
It's the stupid role model image of the NBA that causes this whole media turnmoil around DMC. And what really drives me crazy is the crookedness in that regard. There are quite a few players, who have addiction problems, who took part in assault causes among other things, yet DMC gets painted as emotional weak person, because he argues some calls and is fueled by his anger? I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.

Thirdly DMC is the player he is, because of his emotions. You don't play bully ball, without being hostile. Right now the Rugby worldcup takes place. If you apply the role model image of the NBA to the rugby players, everyone of them is an emotional weak, immature person. The New Zealand National team even threatens their opponents with the Haka. Are the emotions in that moment positive? I don't think so.....
One player I always viewed as the prime example of positive emotions on the basketball court is Vince Carter. The guy was talented beyond believe. But he was always a guy, who shook hands after losing while smiling and chatting with his opponent.
I take players like Cuz, Garnett, Laimbeer or Rodman over Carter any time. Give me the hostile ones, the cocky ones, the players, that go to war on the basketball court and keep the so called role models on other teams.

Cousins has to be, who he is. If he changes and tries to tame himself, his game will change too. And from my point of view Karl is flat out wrong, when it comes to negative emotions in sports. Cuz has learned to not allow his emotions to get him ejected most of the time. I'm fine with the way he is right now and I wish him the best of luck in his mission to silence the so called experts.
 
Since when does DeMarcus or anybody for that matter have to react in a manner that each individual fan believes is appropriate? You know, most people would disagree how each of you react to the trials and tribulations of your everyday life - do you care? If you don't like Cousins' demeanor on the court, don't root for him. It's that simple. But acting as if you are a voice of reason and/or unequivocally right in your beliefs on social behavior is a tad narcissistic. All people are different and aren't required to react as you believe you would given the same situations. DeMarcus isn't going to change. Accept it and embrace it or accept it and dislike it. Your choice. However, complaining about it ad naseum isn't any different that what he's doing on the court. Pot meet kettle.
 
Juste a reminder
Technical foul leaders 14/15 : http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls
Technical foul leaders 13/14 : http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls/year/2014

I don't remember anyone questioning Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook mental health... while they have around the same amount of technical fouls than Boogie...

So I stand with my "Never change Boogie".
Keep as passionate as you are, I don't care about the tech.
It's tricky when it comes to letting Boogie be Boogie. I believe he's exceeded the technical foul limit, and was on pace to do it again last season with 14 in 59 games, two of the last three years. Getting suspended late in the season isn't an issue when you're headed to the lottery, but if this team wants to take the next step and compete for a playoff spot they can't afford to have Cousins sit games down the stretch. Love that Cousins plays with a chip on his shoulder, but he has to figure out how to walk that line for his own sake.
 
It's tricky when it comes to letting Boogie be Boogie. I believe he's exceeded the technical foul limit, and was on pace to do it again last season with 14 in 59 games, two of the last three years. Getting suspended late in the season isn't an issue when you're headed to the lottery, but if this team wants to take the next step and compete for a playoff spot they can't afford to have Cousins sit games down the stretch. Love that Cousins plays with a chip on his shoulder, but he has to figure out how to walk that line for his own sake.
Agreed....the T's have been an issue but even more than the T's, how many times a game does he lose his composure? Whether it's towards a ref, a teammate, himself, etc. you just can't lose your composure as many times as he does game in and game out. Just my opinion!
 
It's tricky when it comes to letting Boogie be Boogie. I believe he's exceeded the technical foul limit, and was on pace to do it again last season with 14 in 59 games, two of the last three years. Getting suspended late in the season isn't an issue when you're headed to the lottery, but if this team wants to take the next step and compete for a playoff spot they can't afford to have Cousins sit games down the stretch. Love that Cousins plays with a chip on his shoulder, but he has to figure out how to walk that line for his own sake.
Yes, it is difficult to Boogie to control his emotions and his frustration. Because he's passionate, because he cares and because, frankly, he's got probably more reasons to be frustrated than any other NBA player these last 5 seasons.
But you know what ? At the beginning of last season, when the Kings were playing well and were 9W-6L, Boogie had a grand total of 2 technical fouls. In 15 games.
As I've said, I don't care about DMC getting technical fouls because I love the passion he plays with. But more to that is I'm pretty confident that if the Kings make the season I'm expecting them to have, Boogie will be even more focused and the technical fouls will go down.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, it is difficult to Boogie to control his emotions and his frustration. Because he's passionate, because he cares and because, frankly, he's got probably more reasons to be frustrated than any other NBA players these last 5 seasons.
But you know what ? At the beginning of last season, when the Kings were playing well and were 9W-6L, Boogie had a grand total of 2 technical fouls. In 15 games.
As I've said, I don't care about DMC getting technical fouls because I love the passion he plays with. But more to that is I'm pretty confident that if the Kings make the season I'm expecting them to have, Boogie will be even more focused and the technical fouls will go down.
I think that is exactly right. Early last season Boogie's 5 technical pledge actually did not look impossible. Then the wheels came off entirely, and he jsut said **** it. And in some ways why not. As frustrated as Boogie is with refs anyway, it has to be 1000x moreso when yet another season has been screwed with and going down the drain.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Cousins is passionate; therefore he does immature and undisciplined behavior that results in technical fouls? Hugh? As if everybody else in the NBA isn't passionate to the degree that Cousins is; therefore they don't commit as many technical fouls? Hugh? You know, when Cousins was drafted, the thought was that he was going to grow out of his immature undisciplined behavior. Now apparently the thought has evolved: he doesn't have to modify his undisciplined immature behavior because it's just the natural result of his passion for the game. Which is it?
 
Cousins is passionate; therefore he does immature and undisciplined behavior that results in technical fouls? Hugh? As if everybody else in the NBA isn't passionate to the degree that Cousins is; therefore they don't commit as many technical fouls? Hugh? You know, when Cousins was drafted, the thought was that he was going to grow out of his immature undisciplined behavior. Now apparently the thought has evolved: he doesn't have to modify his undisciplined immature behavior because it's just the natural result of his passion for the game. Which is it?
Huh? Cousins is one of those guys that has been a solid citizen with no off court trouble. On the court he needs a Coach that would have his back much as Malone did. This season when the bad calls start to pile up against the Kings I am hoping Coach Karl steps in and takes a Technical before Cousins does.

Every team has someone that gets the Refs attention. Sometimes it is a Player and other times it is a Coach. Cousins needs a Coach that will show him that they are in this together. A Coach that will step in and take the T when it is called for.

The Refs need to respect the Sacramento Kings.
 
Huh? Cousins is one of those guys that has been a solid citizen with no off court trouble. On the court he needs a Coach that would have his back much as Malone did. This season when the bad calls start to pile up against the Kings I am hoping Coach Karl steps in and takes a Technical before Cousins does.

Every team has someone that gets the Refs attention. Sometimes it is a Player and other times it is a Coach. Cousins needs a Coach that will show him that they are in this together. A Coach that will step in and take the T when it is called for.

The Refs need to respect the Sacramento Kings.
Respect doesn't come from acting like a child on the court (at times). He's improving and I give him credit for it, but he is hardly the first passionate guy that entered the league and definitely will not be the last. Emotions are great when controlled, but when people begin to lose sight of their goal (winning the game in this case), it no longer is a weapon to fight with, but rather a weakness. A weakness that can affect the entire team. I don't think Cousins is completely at fault here. For years he hasn't had a soul in this organization that had his back, so he felt the need to fend for himself the only way he knew how. This is ok when you are 20 years old and new to the league. It's year 6 now and those moments of when he gives a ref a glaring look or pleads with them can be moments that can result in an easy 2 or 3 points on the other end. In close games this can be the difference between a win and a loss.

All of that being said, I still expect the emotional Cousins on the floor, but this time he has people that he respects to refocus him and take one for the team instead of him. Last year with a focused Cousins and just a coach who had his back, we were 9-6 with a tough opening stretch to the season and a roster that was much worse than the one now. I think we can do real damage this season, like potentially creep up to 50 wins damage. Someone will have to play the Malone role, and I think it's going to be Rondo and to a lesser extent, Divac. Who knows, maybe Karl too in time. If this works out, we are going to be dangerous.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Cousins is passionate; therefore he does immature and undisciplined behavior that results in technical fouls? Hugh? As if everybody else in the NBA isn't passionate to the degree that Cousins is; therefore they don't commit as many technical fouls? Hugh? You know, when Cousins was drafted, the thought was that he was going to grow out of his immature undisciplined behavior. Now apparently the thought has evolved: he doesn't have to modify his undisciplined immature behavior because it's just the natural result of his passion for the game. Which is it?
When Cousins was drafted, there were questions as to whether he would ever amount to what we hoped he would be. I never questioned that, but when you throw in the behavior, there was less tolerance then. Now, we know we have a great player. An all star player, and who knows, maybe a HOH player. I think folks are more tolerant of great players because of what they bring along with the behavior. Wilt Chamberlain was traded many times early in his career because of the same kind of behavior. I'm not justifying bad behavior, but great players get frustrated when they work as hard as they do to become the best in the NBA, and then have what they do, negated by someone making chump change, who maybe never even played basketball beyond highschool.

I'm not trying to belittle the ref's. They have a very difficult job, making quick judgments on players with huge ego's. But the very thing that makes them great is what created the huge ego. I'm sure you don't like to be wrong when arguing a point. Great players don't like to be wrong either. Except they're doing it in front of god and thousands of people. Just so you and I can pass irrelevant judgement on them.
 
DeMarcus Cousins is sensitive. INCREDIBLY sensitive.

You can see it in how he reacts to criticism from the media (see Barkley, Charles, Voisin, Aileen and Elliot, Sean) and how plugged in he is to everything said about him. He takes everything personally, even foul calls. It's part of his psyche. And while I think he'll continue to get better about reacting to calls, blowing up on the court etc it will always be there to some degree. I'll agree that it happens because he's passionate and emotional but I can't agree that it's a good thing.

And Boogie has created a self fulfilling prophecy with the refs. He believes they are out to get him so he complains more and therefore is now really in a position where the refs are often not giving him the benefit of the doubt so he complains more and so on.

As a basketball player I love the guy. And he seems very genuine and caring off the court. But his reactions on the court aren't helping him.

But you have to take the good with the bad with everyone. And as (1) Cousins was the most talented and likely the most passionate player on the floor last season I'm not going to throw an overinflated amount of criticism his way over how he reacts to calls and (2) I think if the Kings have the kind of year I'm expecting (a very good one) Cousins will end up a lot less frustrated and have a lot fewer blowups over calls.
 
Yes, it is difficult to Boogie to control his emotions and his frustration. Because he's passionate, because he cares and because, frankly, he's got probably more reasons to be frustrated than any other NBA player these last 5 seasons.
But you know what ? At the beginning of last season, when the Kings were playing well and were 9W-6L, Boogie had a grand total of 2 technical fouls. In 15 games.
As I've said, I don't care about DMC getting technical fouls because I love the passion he plays with. But more to that is I'm pretty confident that if the Kings make the season I'm expecting them to have, Boogie will be even more focused and the technical fouls will go down.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. Cousins also did a pretty good job keeping him self in check when he got close the suspension limit during the 2013-14 season, so we know he's capable. Hopefully you're right and this is one of those problems winning solves.