Justise Winslow

#2
It will likely not be his decision to make. "Justise rocks, right?"
No one said, Rudy is a PF going forward. Plus, team has only DFC and two specialists to play as bigs, if you're preparing for next season, so rolling with SFs at both forward spots is the way to get them and guards more minutes.

As for Winslow he has a good foundation, but hasn't truly put it all together: his shot is inconsistent, while percentages at FT line and on off the dribble 2s are serious concerns. He had a lot of success lately playing at PF, and even though it might have something to do with replacing another shooter for Amile Jefferson, Winslow at 3 hasn't been impressive. With that said, he's just great transition player.
 
#3
It will likely not be his decision to make. "Justise rocks, right?"
No one said, Rudy is a PF going forward. Plus, team has only DFC and two specialists to play as bigs, if you're preparing for next season, so rolling with SFs at both forward spots is the way to get them and guards more minutes.

As for Winslow he has a good foundation, but hasn't truly put it all together: his shot is inconsistent, while percentages at FT line and on off the dribble 2s are serious concerns. He had a lot of success lately playing at PF, and even though it might have something to do with replacing another shooter for Amile Jefferson, Winslow at 3 hasn't been impressive. With that said, he's just great transition player.
True we do need another quality big. Looks like we may not be that high ln the draft anyway.
 
#4
If the Stauskas pick showed anything, it's that they'll go BPA no matter what. PDA also said before the lottery that he'd be open to drafting Parker or Wiggins and playing them next to Gay. They could do the same with Winslow.
 
#5
It will likely not be his decision to make. "Justise rocks, right?"
No one said, Rudy is a PF going forward. Plus, team has only DFC and two specialists to play as bigs, if you're preparing for next season, so rolling with SFs at both forward spots is the way to get them and guards more minutes.

As for Winslow he has a good foundation, but hasn't truly put it all together: his shot is inconsistent, while percentages at FT line and on off the dribble 2s are serious concerns. He had a lot of success lately playing at PF, and even though it might have something to do with replacing another shooter for Amile Jefferson, Winslow at 3 hasn't been impressive. With that said, he's just great transition player.
Winslow is such a difficult player to evaluate.. I swear each time I write him off for not being able to do something, he does THAT exact same thing the very next day.

Winslow is already a good defender with a high upside. When I see Winslow, I think at the very very very very very low, MKG. However, Winslow can actually shoot 3pters! He's already better than MKG at this stage.

I think he reminds me a lot of Khawi and Jimmy Butler. He's a lock down defender who can play on both sides of the floor. I honestly can't see how you'd pass up on him knowing that the best wings of the last 3-4 years are guys who came into the NBA not knowing how to shoot. I think Winslow will improve as time comes by.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#6
True we do need another quality big. Looks like we may not be that high ln the draft anyway.
Where exactly do you see Winslow being picked??

He's talented, yes, but, after the top four, there are still players like WCS, Stanley Johnson, Hezonja, Porzingis that many teams would probably take ahead of him along with guys like Myles Turner or Jerian Grant who could go to teams with needs.
 
#7
Winslow is such a difficult player to evaluate.. I swear each time I write him off for not being able to do something, he does THAT exact same thing the very next day.

Winslow is already a good defender with a high upside. When I see Winslow, I think at the very very very very very low, MKG. However, Winslow can actually shoot 3pters! He's already better than MKG at this stage.

I think he reminds me a lot of Khawi and Jimmy Butler. He's a lock down defender who can play on both sides of the floor. I honestly can't see how you'd pass up on him knowing that the best wings of the last 3-4 years are guys who came into the NBA not knowing how to shoot. I think Winslow will improve as time comes by.
MKG is probably top-5 NBA perimeter defender right now. That alone is worth a lot, given that Winslow is still playing in college with serious lapses defensively - people put way too much stock in highlights of transition defense. Entering the draft MKG was at least as good at everything, except outside shooting.

Where exactly do you see Winslow being picked??

He's talented, yes, but, after the top four, there are still players like WCS, Stanley Johnson, Hezonja, Porzingis that many teams would probably take ahead of him along with guys like Myles Turner or Jerian Grant who could go to teams with needs.
Players move very differently in actual games, than in the gym. And top picks are usually alone on the floor at that moment, plus you can't put anyone from your roster either, only coaching staff or execs, so I see Porzingis impressing, Turner looks rather smooth in the open gym - that might be enough for someone to believe in advanced stats, Hezonja might put on athleticism coupled with elite shooting show. In short, Winslow is certainly far from being a lock for #5.
 
#8
MKG is probably top-5 NBA perimeter defender right now. That alone is worth a lot, given that Winslow is still playing in college with serious lapses defensively - people put way too much stock in highlights of transition defense. Entering the draft MKG was at least as good at everything, except outside shooting.

Players move very differently in actual games, than in the gym. And top picks are usually alone on the floor at that moment, plus you can't put anyone from your roster either, only coaching staff or execs, so I see Porzingis impressing, Turner looks rather smooth in the open gym - that might be enough for someone to believe in advanced stats, Hezonja might put on athleticism coupled with elite shooting show. In short, Winslow is certainly far from being a lock for #5.

Winslow can defend various positions. He's not just a transition defender, but that's what highlight reels like. I think at the very least, he can be MKG. Winslow gives 100% effort and hustle along with defense. He's already a better offensive player right this very moment vs MKG. He's shown that he can pass the ball very well at a high level.

I actually don't see Winslow being drafted at 5..but maybe he does? He's had a great tourney
 
#9
Winslow is an intriguing wing who brings a lot of things we need: defense, 3-pt shooting, and passing.

That being said, I'm not certain he's a top-5 player and more of a 3-and-D type roleplayer - his scoring capabilities are limited and some scouts think his 3-pt shooting could be a fluke. If you're picking top-10, you want to be getting a star and not a roleplayer extraordinaire - history being a guide, these picks can backfire greatly (Joe Alexander, Cole Aldrich, Jan Vesely and - while I love him - MKG come to mind).

Should we stay at 6 or fall, I'd take a good look at Winslow. Rudy won't be here forever - and with the aforementioned qualities that Winslow can potentially bring, he might make us a better team.
 
#10
Winslow can defend various positions. He's not just a transition defender, but that's what highlight reels like. I think at the very least, he can be MKG. Winslow gives 100% effort and hustle along with defense. He's already a better offensive player right this very moment vs MKG. He's shown that he can pass the ball very well at a high level.

I actually don't see Winslow being drafted at 5..but maybe he does? He's had a great tourney
Justise Winslow can't shoot off the dribble: makes around .216 on jumpers inside the arc, and hasn't attempted any unassisted 3s this year. And defensively he falls asleep from time to time, losing his guy - focus isn't there 100% defensively. I like him most among projected lottery SFs, but he will need time. Also he's not that quick to really lock up SGs.
 
#11
I really like both Johnson and Winslow in this draft. I think both would be fantastic next to Rudy at the F spot. The only issue with Justise is that he appears to be a little on the short side for a SF. His body should serve him well to cancel part of those negatives out perhaps.
 
#12
Justise Winslow can't shoot off the dribble: makes around .216 on jumpers inside the arc, and hasn't attempted any unassisted 3s this year. And defensively he falls asleep from time to time, losing his guy - focus isn't there 100% defensively. I like him most among projected lottery SFs, but he will need time. Also he's not that quick to really lock up SGs.
He has the physical tools, just like Johnson, to be a versatile defender for sure. It's a bit hard to fully judge him in some areas because of Dukes playing style. There just isn't a lot of opportunity for him to show everything he can do, or even work on the things he can't do well right now. I think him proving he can play some SG, or defend them as you mention, will be key for him. As for fitting in with the team he has the skills that they want and he has them right now. Shooting off the dribble isn't what they need anyway, he drives effectively, he dishes effectively, and he can spot shoot effectively. Those are all reasons why he could very well jump into the starting SF or even SG spot with this team next year if the Kings drafted him. The main difference I'm seeing right now between he and Johnson is Winslow has the ability to put up numbers in almost all categories. If he's not scoring he's rebounding. If he's not shooting he's passing. If he's not driving he's knocking down open jumpers off the ball. I think Johnson might have the higher upside though because of his physical tools. Both are built like tanks but Johnson is closer to true SF size.
 
#15
Johnson is a better scorer and rebounder, can pass too, but he has a scorer's mentality, while Winslow is a flow of the game guy - that's why I like Justise more.

Stupid refs killed the game.

I think Winslow has much better handles. Winslow is also more of a coast to coast type of player. I think he'd fit perfectly with the Kings offensive system. He's a perfect rebound and run player.
 
#16
It's a function of team dynamic: Winslow is a bit faster, so when you put him at PF, Justise is a problem, while Stanley plays strictly at 3, and is checked by SG or SG/SF types - hard to get away from these guys.
 
#17
I think Stanley Johnson is the better SF, but it's hard to pick. Winslow is playing amazing right now.. Like I said, every time I'm ready or already marked him off for not being able to do so something, he does it in the next game. Where the hell did all these SFs come from? A few years ago we couldn't even get a star quality SF with the 7th pick.. Not you can get some anywhere in the top 15.
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#18
Winslow can come in and play the 2. So I'm not worried
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#19
Winslow measured out at 6'6" without shoes, so he's at least 6'7" in shoes. He also has a 6'10" wingspan, so I don't think he'd have a problem playing at the SF position, and I think that's his best position. Stanley Johnson measured out at 6'6.75"without shoes and just junder 6'8" in shoes with a 6'11" wingspan. Not a lot of difference between them. I disagree on handles. I think Johnson has the better handles, but really, there's not a lot of difference between the two of them except that Johnson has a build like a football player, thus the Ron Artest comparisons. Johnson has at times guarded four different positions on the floor. In a draft with quite a few defensive big's in it, I'm not interested in either Johnson or Winslow.
 
#21
Justise is still a shaky shooter:


Winslow had very different scoring efficiency with/without Okafor - it was something like a .610TS%/.500TS% split


This one looks like a shot chart of a guy, who can shoot - he is just afraid of the corners.:D
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#22
I'm on the Winslow-wagon.

We are getting killed from the perimeter this season....We need a stud defender at the wing.
Best case offseason:

Trade for Taj, draft Winslow (or Johnson).
 
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#23
As far as Winslow's size, his wingspan would rank him in the bottom third among starting SF.

Here are the 19 starting SF with longer wingspan than Winslow's (6'-10"). I put Tyreke as a SF because that was his intended position before injuries hit Nola. I couldn't find Giannis' wingspan but I'm sure it's somewhere north of 7'-0". It's also possible Danilo Gallinari's wingspan is longer than Winslow's but I can't find the number.

1. Kevin Durant. 7'-4"
2. Rudy Gay. 7'-3"
3. K. Leonard. 7'-3"
4. Trevor Ariza. 7'-2"
5. R. Covington 7'-2"
6. Jeff Green. 7'-1"
7. N. Batum. 7'-1"
8. Otto Porter 7'-1"
9. Luol Deng 7'-0.5"
10. Lebron James 7'-0"
11. Carmelo Anthony 7'-0"
12. MKG 7'-0"
13. T. Evans 6'-11"
14. T. Harris 6'-11"
15. H. Barnes. 6'-11"
16. A. Wiggins 6'-11"
17. P. George 6'-11"
18. Caron Butler 6'-11"
19. Giannis. 7'-0"+

Note that Tyreke is the only one shorter than Winslow. Meaning Winslow is undersized whenever he is matched up with these guys.

These starting SF have equal or shorter wingspan than Winslow:
1. Demare Caroll. 6'-10"
2. Marcus Morris 6'-10"
3. Chandler Parson 6'-9.5"
4. Joe Johnson 6'-9"
5. Matt Barnes 6'-9"
6. Evan Turner 6'-8"
7. Gordon Hayward 6'-8"
8. Terrence Ross 6'-7.25"

The thing is, all but Turner and Ross are taller than Winslow, which I think neutralizes his longer wingspan somewhat. Furthermore, Ross and Turner are natural SG playing out of position.

I am not saying that Winslow can't play SF, he probably can get away with it and his brute strength can make up for it somewhat. My point is that he is on the small side of the SF scale. He could very well be the smallest one in terms of height + wingspan.

For that reason, I'm not as bullish on Winslow as some of y'all. I am fine with drafting him but I'm just not that excited about him.

Now, if he measured out to have a 7'-0" wingspan at the combine, I may change my mind.
.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#24
Winslow looks like a talent but the last thing we need is to turn the SF/SG position over to another young guy. Unless he can come right in and play at a high level......that is not what our plan should be. Now if we were covered at all positions by a playoff ready rotation of starters then the kid would/could be a nice get but we can't even get to 30 wins with what we got.
 
#25
I wouldn't be worried about Winslows wingspan as much as I would his height and standing reach either. Wingspan is such an overrated thing in a game of verticality. I will say that it does matter more for wings playing passing lanes rather than bigs but time has proven great defenders use their feet more than anything.

I think Winslow is a SG/SF combo and is someone that has the bulk and body to play some small ball PF. Winslows body will allow him to play bigger players. He's very solid with his weight distributed pretty evenly and he's much stronger than a player like Tyreke. He looks like he's in the 6'4"-6-5" range and that might help him drop the Kings pick in the end. So, if you want him maybe you should hope he measures out a tad short.
 
#26
Winslow looks like a talent but the last thing we need is to turn the SF/SG position over to another young guy. Unless he can come right in and play at a high level......that is not what our plan should be. Now if we were covered at all positions by a playoff ready rotation of starters then the kid would/could be a nice get but we can't even get to 30 wins with what we got.
I think trying to draft a player that is ready now is a trap and good way to waste a pick. If you want help now then trade the pick for a proven player. If you're going to make the pick get the best talent available even if they don't come fully developed.

With Winslow I don't think it matters if he ends up projecting out as a SG. Keeping Rudy at SF and trading Nik or Ben seems no less likely then forcing Rudy to play out of position at PF.
 
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#27
You evaluate level of potential of available players to tentatively slot them into tiers, take, who's left from the highest tier, and then it's perfectly fine selecting most ready guy among them. Of course, it's inexact science, so you might get middling player, who is also not ready to contribute...
In this sense taking WCS in 6-10 range is fine. Of course, if he starts dropping, trading down some places to still pick him makes sense.
 
#28
The league right now don't really have a good depth at SG and the best guy in the league on that position does not even play defense at all.
But even with that, our crop of SG could not even probably crack the top 20 SG in league.

And I think that's where drafting Winslow could really come in and take this team to the next level.
If we are too scared to trade Ben or Nik, I would say let Winslow and Ben take majority minutes at SG.
Let Nik play back-up point at times or spot-up shooter SF (if we go small).

We need 2-way players to keep this team from being exploited with a simple switch.
 
#29
Nik isn't ready to be a backup SG, let alone backup PG.
Winslow will still be a rookie, his shot is a big question mark, and he's actually not that great laterally at SG - more of a defensive playmaker, than stopper. And a lot of those plays come at the expense of controlling his own man - with more spacing and shooting ability at SG across the league, he will be burnt a lot, before he learns, what plays he should avoid. Point is he's not that ready to step in - tools are excellent, but Justise has a lot to figure out/make some adjustments.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#30
So, if the draft went Towns, Okafor, Mudiay, Russel, and WCS in some order, and Kings were sitting there at six, you wouldn't take Winslow?
At that point I'd have to do some serious thinking. I might consider trading down, and grab Turner or Kaminsky. Look, the Kings need help up front, and while I think both Johnson and Winslow will be good players in the NBA, neither of them sends chills down my spine. Would they help the team? Of course. But neither would make up for the deficiency at the C/PF position. Now if there's a plan in place to fill that need through freeagency or trade, then fine, I'd consider taking one of Johnson or Winslow. However, I don't think you can just discard the idea that the Kings might consider Porzingis or Hezonja. I personally can't speak to their abilities, but I suspect that Vlade is familiar with them, as is our scouting dept.

That said, I think Winslow will go somewhere in the top five. It really all depends on who is picking. So we'll have a better idea after the lottery when we know what the correct order will be. I doubt this will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if Okafor dropped down a few spots. Offensively he has no game away from the basket, and his average defensively at best. Especially if you draw him away from the basket. He flat got outplayed by Frank Kaminsky in the final. Don't think scouts didn't take notice.