2016 NBA Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
- Start date
Yes, it's possible, but it would be quite surprising, since you can probably get him in mid-teens, picking an asset or two along the way. I think, Baldwin likely doesn't get past #15 as he can play with both Rose and Butler for Bulls and with Mudiay in Denver. If Baldwin were a target, trade with Phoenix for #13, 28 and 34 is the way to go.
Actually DX moved Payne to #14 exactly a year ago, on 5/27/15. 
And before that he was at #20-21 for a month, so it wasn't out of nowhere. Baldwin is even a little higher, ignoring stupidity of ND.net, as some have him at #12, but Jazz have 4 PGs and Baldwin is not ready even for a backup PG role at the moment. Still currently Baldwin seems to be locked into 14-17 area, and Bulls, Nuggets and Grizzlies all seem like reasonable destinations.
And before that he was at #20-21 for a month, so it wasn't out of nowhere. Baldwin is even a little higher, ignoring stupidity of ND.net, as some have him at #12, but Jazz have 4 PGs and Baldwin is not ready even for a backup PG role at the moment. Still currently Baldwin seems to be locked into 14-17 area, and Bulls, Nuggets and Grizzlies all seem like reasonable destinations.
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Actually DX moved Payne to #14 exactly a year ago, on 5/27/15.
And before that he was at #20-21 for a month, so it wasn't out of nowhere. Baldwin is even a little higher, ignoring stupidity of ND.net, as some have him at #12, but Jazz have 4 PGs and Baldwin is not ready even for a backup PG role at the moment. Still currently Baldwin seems to be locked into 14-17 area, and Bulls, Nuggets and Grizzlies all seem like reasonable destinations.
And before that he was at #20-21 for a month, so it wasn't out of nowhere. Baldwin is even a little higher, ignoring stupidity of ND.net, as some have him at #12, but Jazz have 4 PGs and Baldwin is not ready even for a backup PG role at the moment. Still currently Baldwin seems to be locked into 14-17 area, and Bulls, Nuggets and Grizzlies all seem like reasonable destinations.
I think it depends on what your looking for in a big. I really like Poeltl. He's going to be a starting center in the NBA at some point. He's a better athlete than people think, and he's ready to defend in the NBA right now. On the other hand, if your looking for a PG and Dunn is gone, then in my opinion, Baldwin is your choice. It doesn't really matter if people think your reaching as long as he turns out to be the player you thought he would be. Baldwin, like Dunn, can defend. I also like Ellenson. I'd like him better if he were more athletic. But, he is very skilled and he might be able to play both center and PF.
Further down in the draft I like Damian Jones who I think was totally misused at Vanderbilt. He was nothing but an afterthought on offense. Festus Ezeli anyone? I've been watching a ton of film on Zhou Qi, and from what I've seen, he's a better prospect than I thought. Needs about 20 or so pounds of muscle, but he's fairly skilled for his size. Got any thoughts on him?
Further down in the draft I like Damian Jones who I think was totally misused at Vanderbilt. He was nothing but an afterthought on offense. Festus Ezeli anyone? I've been watching a ton of film on Zhou Qi, and from what I've seen, he's a better prospect than I thought. Needs about 20 or so pounds of muscle, but he's fairly skilled for his size. Got any thoughts on him?
It's Chad Ford so take it for what it's worth ( but wouldn't be surprised)
http://www.sportando.com/m/en/usa/n...ested-in-dealing-their-first-round-picks.html
http://www.sportando.com/m/en/usa/n...ested-in-dealing-their-first-round-picks.html
I don't see us taking Chriss, but who knows? Actually, I don't have a problem with the Kings drafting Baldwin at 8. I like Baldwin! I like Dunn better, but if he's gone, Baldwin is a close second. Similar size players and both are good athletes. I think Dunn is a better finisher at the basket, and Dunn has a tighter handle. Both players have the potential to be lock down defenders, and both can guard two positions. I think both can play off the ball at the SG position if Joerger wants to go with two ballhandlers on the floor. Both players have large wingspans. I think Dunn is a better overall distributor of the ball right now, but then he has a little more experience.
I still think the Kings could move down a bit and still get Baldwin, but if they want to play it safe, and make sure they get him, then just reach a bit and take him. I still think there's an outside chance that Dunn will slide to us.
I still think the Kings could move down a bit and still get Baldwin, but if they want to play it safe, and make sure they get him, then just reach a bit and take him. I still think there's an outside chance that Dunn will slide to us.
I think that at least one big will go up the draft board and as a result one of Dunn, Brown, Hield or Murray will slide to 8. My money on the big that flies up the board is in fact Chriss. Solid size, bounce, offensive skills, big upside...classic flier up the draft boards.
What are your thoughts on Brown, Murray and Hield?
What are your thoughts on Brown, Murray and Hield?
I've seen this comparison, and I don't think, it's correct on offense: Hill can't do anything with the ball in his hands as he can't shoot off the dribble. His c&s eFG% is above .600, but anything off-the-dribble is under .400. Baldwin shot 41% on pull-up 3s, when coming off a screen with the ball, so he has first part of P&R game locked up - you absolutely have to go over the screen after him. Of course, his mentality is to attack, and he gets a bit of tunnel vision going downhill, which resulted in all kinds of junk shots in and around painted area. Baldwin also generates a lot of contact, which kept his efficiency up, but he definitely needs to improve decision-making a lot, before becoming dependable primary ball-handler. There are a few obvious small tweaks to his game, that would improve his game a lot:
- 'dip' the ball less in his shooting motion to speed it up and maybe raise release point a bit as it would really help his mid-range pull-up: trying to avoid being blocked led to a lot of off-balance shots
- stop moving so upright: being on balance is good, but dribbling with a bit of leaning forward/closer to the the floor would speed up his movement downhill and keep the ball more protected, and that's the main thing with him: he doesn't trust his handles to go full speed in traffic. When the cracks in defense are wide, Baldwin seems to defy perception, that he has average footspeed
- just don't drift from his man on d at all as that's the only thing, that gets him in trouble
I've seen this comparison, and I don't think, it's correct on offense: Hill can't do anything with the ball in his hands as he can't shoot off the dribble. His c&s eFG% is above .600, but anything off-the-dribble is under .400. Baldwin shot 41% on pull-up 3s, when coming off a screen with the ball, so he has first part of P&R game locked up - you absolutely have to go over the screen after him. Of course, his mentality is to attack, and he gets a bit of tunnel vision going downhill, which resulted in all kinds of junk shots in and around painted area. Baldwin also generates a lot of contact, which kept his efficiency up, but he definitely needs to improve decision-making a lot, before becoming dependable primary ball-handler. There are a few obvious small tweaks to his game, that would improve his game a lot:
- 'dip' the ball less in his shooting motion to speed it up and maybe raise release point a bit as it would really help his mid-range pull-up: trying to avoid being blocked led to a lot of off-balance shots
- stop moving so upright: being on balance is good, but dribbling with a bit of leaning forward/closer to the the floor would speed up his movement downhill and keep the ball more protected, and that's the main thing with him: he doesn't trust his handles to go full speed in traffic. When the cracks in defense are wide, Baldwin seems to defy perception, that he has average footspeed
- just don't drift from his man on d at all as that's the only thing, that gets him in trouble
Yeah,
Then we'll have
Not a very exciting list though.
- Venky Jois (F – 6’8" 230 lbs.) Eastern Washington
- Nick Faust (G – 6’6" 210 lbs.) Long Beach State
- Mamadou Ndiaye (C – 7’6" 300 lbs.) UC Irvine
- Mike Tobey (C – 7’0" 252 lbs.) Virginia
- Codi Miller-McIntyre (G – 6’3" 205 lbs.) Wake Forrest
- Anthony Beane (G – 6’2" 190 lbs.) Southern Illinois
Then we'll have
- Rosco Allen (F – 6’9" 215 lbs.) Stanford
- Bryn Forbes (G – 6’3" 175 lbs.) Michigan State
- Nikola Jovanovic (F – 6’11" 235 lbs.) Southern California
- Manny Malou (F – 6’9" 215 lbs.) Yuba College
- Patricio Garino (G – 6’6" 208 lbs.) George Washington
- Majok Deng (F – 6’10" 185 lbs.) Louisiana Monroe
Not a very exciting list though.
Unless the draft pic is part of a bigger trade, you never get equal return. Especially for the 8th pick. Think about this. Why would you go through the trouble to tank toward the end of the season to save your draft pic, if your intent was to trade it for a possible rotation player. For the 8th pick your either going to get someone else's project that they given up on (McLemore), or an aging veteran with maybe a year or two left in the tank. In the meantime your giving up a young prospect that may develop into something usable and at a very cheap price.
The only way a pic has any value in a trade is if it's thrown in as a sweetener. Regardless, we can't actually trade the pick. We can switch picks, or we can trade the player we draft after the fact. I'm sure you already know that.
The only way a pic has any value in a trade is if it's thrown in as a sweetener. Regardless, we can't actually trade the pick. We can switch picks, or we can trade the player we draft after the fact. I'm sure you already know that.
Kings are looking for a player to draft at #59 right now. And FO might be concentrated 100% on trading #8 pick, which means this is the only type of talent, we'll see before the draft.
Anyway even if Kings are absolutely committed to making the selection on draft day, they might be in a bit of pickle as at the moment there's perceived top-7. Some projections break it up by inserting Hellenson or Poeltl, but 7 players are pretty consistently shuffled in top-7 spots, and their agents most likely are not going to schedule visits with Kings until very late in the process to avoid generating negative publicity of "potentially falling" in the media. Plus there were already some "pro-days", and probably some more to come, where agencies, representing players, run workouts in very controlled environment, and that's the only setting teams are going to see some players in. There are still 3+ weeks before June, 23rd though, and that's plenty of time to look at 40-50 players, if Kings wanted.
Anyway even if Kings are absolutely committed to making the selection on draft day, they might be in a bit of pickle as at the moment there's perceived top-7. Some projections break it up by inserting Hellenson or Poeltl, but 7 players are pretty consistently shuffled in top-7 spots, and their agents most likely are not going to schedule visits with Kings until very late in the process to avoid generating negative publicity of "potentially falling" in the media. Plus there were already some "pro-days", and probably some more to come, where agencies, representing players, run workouts in very controlled environment, and that's the only setting teams are going to see some players in. There are still 3+ weeks before June, 23rd though, and that's plenty of time to look at 40-50 players, if Kings wanted.
Last year at this time, the Kings had brought in no one. Of course there were a lot of reasons for that, but none the less, the Kings didn't start bringing in players until there were a couple of weeks left. I don't think any of these players are a mystery to them. All of them have been previously scouted. Plus, I read there was a giant workout in New York held by the Knicks with many of the top players there, and that the majority of the NBA teams were represented there. I can't guarantee the Kings were there, but in all likelyhood they at least had a scout there.
If I were the Kings, I'd get on the phone with the Suns and see what it would take to switch picks with them. They desperately need a center. They made the mistake of locking up Chandler for the next three years, and he's a mere shell of his former self. They drafted Alex Len three years ago and for all intents and purposes, he's a bust. Sitting at number four, they don't want to reach for a Poeltl or an Ellenson, but at eight, its not that much of a reach. Maybe something like our number 8, along with Koufos, for their number 4 with Archie Goodwin thrown in. They can draft who they want at eight and acquire a center in Koufos that's probably better than either of the two centers they currently have. We get to grab Dunn or whoever we want, get a young SG to develop, and we also clear a little bit of cap space.
If I were the Kings, I'd get on the phone with the Suns and see what it would take to switch picks with them. They desperately need a center. They made the mistake of locking up Chandler for the next three years, and he's a mere shell of his former self. They drafted Alex Len three years ago and for all intents and purposes, he's a bust. Sitting at number four, they don't want to reach for a Poeltl or an Ellenson, but at eight, its not that much of a reach. Maybe something like our number 8, along with Koufos, for their number 4 with Archie Goodwin thrown in. They can draft who they want at eight and acquire a center in Koufos that's probably better than either of the two centers they currently have. We get to grab Dunn or whoever we want, get a young SG to develop, and we also clear a little bit of cap space.
There is no reason to trade away the 8th pick without getting back a draft pick in return. I don't like this whole trade your youth for only a veteran player who won't be here for the long term. We need to think about the present and the future and I have faith that Vlade is doing just that. I can see him playing the waiting game to see who drops and if they don't like the crop of players at 8, move back and acquire another late pick, if possible.
The Suns have no reason to trade their 4th pick to the Kings for 8 and Koufos. What good does that do them? They are better off taking their chances on finding a all-star or star at 4 rather than at 8. I'm not even sure you can call that Suns team a rebuilding team because they have the most money forked over two PGs and just signed Tyson, as you mentioned, for no apparent reason at all.
No one is advocating trading the pick for an old veteran. If the veteran we are talking about is around the same age as Cousins, then you absolutely do it.
If for arguments sake pick as a part of the package deal could get you a player like Butler then you absolutely do it. You get two all-stars at the same age which form the framework of your team going forward. Use your cap smartly to sign free agents that fit and all of a sudden you are a contender.
Youth is only good if you are rebuilding. Once you get a franchise player, the focus changes to building a contender around him and on those teams youth is nailed to the end of the bench. Just like Gerald Wallace was here.
If for arguments sake pick as a part of the package deal could get you a player like Butler then you absolutely do it. You get two all-stars at the same age which form the framework of your team going forward. Use your cap smartly to sign free agents that fit and all of a sudden you are a contender.
Youth is only good if you are rebuilding. Once you get a franchise player, the focus changes to building a contender around him and on those teams youth is nailed to the end of the bench. Just like Gerald Wallace was here.
The last thing Suns need is a SG or a PG so they are awkwardly placed in the draft. They might rely on Boston picking anyone other than Bender so that they can get him. It wouldn't surprise me if PHX trade down, trade the pick all together or reach for a prospect with high upside but that might take time (e.g. Chriss
Try taking a look at the Suns roster and you tell me what they need, and then look who the best players are if your picking fourth. Now maybe Chandler can rebound, and become a defensive menace again, but I wouldn't count on it. Len is no better than a backup center and they have a team with too many guards. There's a very good center in the draft named Poeltl, but he would be a reach at four, but not so much at eight. So if they can move down, and get the player they want, and pick up an asset as well, why not.