How about Tobias Harris

[sactownfan]

Apparently Skiles is the front runner for the ORL job....Skiles didn’t have a good relationship with Orlando forward Tobias Harris while they were together in Milwaukee...

So I don't understand all the rules about sign and trades in the NBA but could we basically have ORL sign him because he's restricted this summer and then we move the 6th along with JT or Landry for him?

Obviously I think ORL would want more so say we throw in Nic or Ray Mac.

ORL then has the 5th and 6th picks ... they probably take WCS. I started hearing ORL would consider taking WCS with the 5th. But they have a crowed front court as it stands now with Harris

 

[macadocious]

Wait, you want to trade JT AND the 6th, for Tobias Harris?

 

[randymoss1881]

Wait, you want to trade JT AND the 6th, for Tobias Harris?

Tobias isn't willing signing with us so it's a mute point.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wait, you want to trade JT AND the 6th, for Tobias Harris?

Even better, he wants to trade Thompson and the sixth pick (and "more", because he thinks that Orlando will 'obviously' want more) for a guy who plays a position where we already have a borderline All-Star. "Best-case" scenario (for differing values of "best-case"), we start them both and go small. Far more likely (since that would have to be an S&T, anyway), we end up paying $8M for our backup small forward.

 

[206Fan]

I really like Tobais Harris, but I think he's going to kill our floor spacing. He has star potential, but I don't think he's going to mesh with Gay and Cousins. He's a very similar player to Gay, but he's not the passer nor the ball handler. I think he has a great ceiling left. He's only 22 and has improved his shooting a lot this year.

If he was a better defender I'd lean towards it, but he's not. I just think he's a poor fit here and doesn't fit any of our needs.

 

[macadocious]

Even better, he wants to trade Thompson and the sixth pick (and "more", because he thinks that Orlando will 'obviously' want more) for a guy who plays a position where we already have a borderline All-Star. "Best-case" scenario (for differing values of "best-case"), we start them both and go small. Far more likely (since that would have to be an S&T, anyway), we end up paying $8M for our backup small forward.

Ya, I got all that. I didn't thin that part needed to be said. I wouldn't trade just the 6th pick for Harris if we needed a SF.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

LMFAO.

 

[King Baller]

The LA teams are going to be Big and Talented at the 4 and 5 spots. The Clips have Griffin and Jordan. The Lake Show will have Randle and one of Okafor or Towns. The Kings need help for Cousins to match up. Currently only JT can defend those guys. Think WCS or some veteran like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson, or even better both.

SF is set since Gay will start and play most of his minutes there. All the Gay at PF talk is just posturing. Just sign Casspi and SF is set.

 

[bajaden]

Apparently Skiles is the front runner for the ORL job....Skiles didn’t have a good relationship with Orlando forward Tobias Harris while they were together in Milwaukee...

So I don't understand all the rules about sign and trades in the NBA but could we basically have ORL sign him because he's restricted this summer and then we move the 6th along with JT or Landry for him?

Obviously I think ORL would want more so say we throw in Nic or Ray Mac.

ORL then has the 5th and 6th picks ... they probably take WCS. I started hearing ORL would consider taking WCS with the 5th. But they have a crowed front court as it stands now with Harris

So you want to essentially give them Willie Cauley-Stein, JT, and either McLemore or Stauskas for Tobias Harris? Hell, why don't we throw in a milliion dollars and Cousins while were at it. Insanity is starting to run rampant around here. Look, I like Harris. I liked him at Summer league three years ago and said so then. But he's a SF and last time I checked we still had Gay. Now I grant you that Harris is big enough to play PF and has the look of a stretch four, and I'd love to have him on the Kings, but I'm not giving up that much talent to acquire him. Here's a thought! He's a restricted freeagent, so why not throw a huge sum of money at him and see if Orlando is willing to pony up. The question is, what do you think he's worth? He's a decent 3 pt shooter averaging 36.4% from beyond the arc. He's an average rebounder at just over 6 boards a game. Would he be better next to Cousins, than Willie Cauley-Stein? What price would you put on him? I like the idea of signing him as a freeagent better than giving away half our team.

 

[miltonap]

Awful deal

 

[Gilles]

The LA teams are going to be Big and Talented at the 4 and 5 spots. The Clips have Griffin and Jordan. The Lake Show will have Randle and one of Okafor or Towns. The Kings need help for Cousins to match up. Currently only JT can defend those guys. Think WCS or some veteran like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson, or even better both.

SF is set since Gay will start and play most of his minutes there. All the Gay at PF talk is just posturing. Just sign Casspi and SF is set.

Kings need much more of this posturing actually. If we approach the draft, and everyone knows it's WCS or bust for Kings, they are setting themselves up for being taken hostage by Knicks or Magic, so Kings should absolutely rave about Mudiay/Winslow/Johnson/Porzingis workouts, while Karl should reiterate, that Rudy starting at 4 is very much a viable option, that opens ways to go for Winslow or Johnson.

 

[bajaden]

The LA teams are going to be Big and Talented at the 4 and 5 spots. The Clips have Griffin and Jordan. The Lake Show will have Randle and one of Okafor or Towns. The Kings need help for Cousins to match up. Currently only JT can defend those guys. Think WCS or some veteran like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson, or even better both.

SF is set since Gay will start and play most of his minutes there. All the Gay at PF talk is just posturing. Just sign Casspi and SF is set.

Of the three players, I'd go with Cauley-Stein. First, Johnson, who is an unrestricted freeagent, so we could get into the bidding to acquire him, but he made 7 mil last season, and I suspect he isn't going to endorse a cut in pay. Gibson, who I like better, is under contract, so we would have to trade for him, is due 8.5 and 8.9 mil the next two years. Cauley-Stein would be on a very reasonable rookie contract for the next four years, and I think he can be a better overall player then either of them. Especially as a shot blocker. Johnson isn't a shot blocker, and Gibson is a little above average as one. Neither of them is an above average rebounder. I agree that Gay and Casspi are a good combo at the SF position.

 

[bajaden]

Awful deal

Any deal in particular, or the next one that's proposed perhaps?

 

[bajaden]

Kings need much more of this posturing actually. If we approach the draft, and everyone knows it's WCS or bust for Kings, they are setting themselves up for being taken hostage by Knicks or Magic, so Kings should absolutely rave about Mudiay/Winslow/Johnson/Porzingis workouts, while Karl should reiterate, that Rudy starting at 4 is very much a viable option, that opens ways to go for Winslow or Johnson.

You sir have hit the nail on the head. We are currently entering total BS and smokescreen time.

 

[Mike]

He's a talented player, but he's another of those tweeners like Derrick Williams. The Magic have played him at SF and PF, and while he's not played badly at either position, I think his best position is SF because he doesn't do everything you'd ideally want from your PF. So as much as I like him, I don't see how he fits in with what we already have here - ie Rudy Gay locked in at SF.

For me, if we were to give up a sixth round pick for any Orlando Magic player. I'd be willing to see us do it for Oladipo, he's looking like he could become a star player at both ends. He'd slot in nicely in our line up. Another would be Vuceivic, though I'm not sure whether he'd be a fit in a front court with Gay and Cousins. But outside of them two, I'd rather we use our pick on a talent from the draft (Mudiay or WCS) or a more suitable veteran.

 

[funkykingston]

I like Harris but unless Gay is traded the starting SF spot is taken meaning he's either starting at PF as an undersized stretch 4 with suspect shooting or he's in the DWill role of backing up both forward spots due to matchups.

But the bigger issue is that the player has to agree to a sign-and-trade. Meaning that Harris would have to WANT to come to the Kings.

And even if he does, there's zero reason to offer a bounty for him. Sign-and-trade deals don't ever net equal value. They allow a team that would otherwise lose a guy for nothing to get SOME compensation, usually in return for a bigger contract than the player could get otherwise.

For a myriad of reasons I just can't see it happening. And nor should it.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Kings need much more of this posturing actually. If we approach the draft, and everyone knows it's WCS or bust for Kings, they are setting themselves up for being taken hostage by Knicks or Magic.

If the Knicks want to pass on Mudiay to instead hold WCS hostage against us, more power to them!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Ya, I got all that. I didn't thin that part needed to be said...

It rarely hurts to explicate; maybe I wasn't spelling it out for your benefit, ever think of that?

 

[sactownfan]

I like the idea of signing him as a freeagent better than giving away half our team.

He shoots 3's at a great clip and would be that floor spacer we would want next to cousins.... Lets face it... of the 4 teams left in the Playoffs they're all major 3pt shooting teams and have smaller lineups... They have at most 1 TRUE BIG MAN on the floor most of the time otherwise its tweener SF/PF players in the front line. I was including JT or Landry as a salary dump. We need to get rid of one of those guys. I'd do it for 2nd round picks and a washing machine if I could. So that we could like you said just have a do over and the money to straight up sign a good player. BUT... we dont.

so... I really see the trade as 6th and Nic for Harris while dumping Landry or whoever. A front line of Gay, Harris and Cousins at least offensively would be pretty versatile. But its not a good fit defensively I guess... Although Cousins while not being a shot blocker has really grown a lot as a presence around the rim defensively...

 

[dude12]

Harris is a good player but not worth the pick and Stauskas......I'm not sure I'd give the pick for him either.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He shoots 3's at a great clip and would be that floor spacer we would want next to cousins.... Lets face it... of the 4 teams left in the Playoffs they're all major 3pt shooting teams and have smaller lineups... They have at most 1 TRUE BIG MAN on the floor most of the time otherwise its tweener SF/PF players in the front line.

The fact remains that teams built like the four teams still in the playoffs have never won a championship, and the team that wins it this year will be the very first one of its kind. Which begs the question, is this truly the dawn of a new age, or is it just a fluke blip on the radar. And, even if this year's playoffs leads to more teams like these, contrary to what the three-point hippies would like us to believe, proving that winning with guards can work isn't the same thing as proving that winning with bigs doesn't work any more. There's no need to copy other teams' style, even if it does work, because we have something they don't: the best young big in the game. Build the team around his strengths, and don't worry about how the Jones' cut their grass.

 

[kingsboi]

I like Tobias but he doesn't really defend and has been a little more injury prone than I expected.

 

[sactownfan]

Build the team around his strengths

I 100% agree which is why we need more 3pt shooting and floor spacing... Im not talking about "PACE" lol! or raining 3pt's every time down the floor... but we could definitely improve from being just about last place in 3pt shooting and theres no question that if we had players that could hit 3pt shots that would make Cousins job easier....

We should play thru Cousins and smash teams with him. BUT When teams double him we need guys all around the floor making them pay for doing so.

If we had the talent to be middle of the pack or top 10 in 3pt shooting we would be unstoppable with Cousins pounding the inside. Minus the Hawks the other 3 teams have Legit bigs tho... at least 1 true big

 

[Spike]

Any deal in particular, or the next one that's proposed perhaps?

Knowing KF.com, and the fact that it is TDOS, the answer to your question is "yes".

 

[Albatros]

Every time I watched the magic this year he really impressed me. Still a bit raw though don't see the magic dumping him any time soon.

 

[KingsFanGER]

He shoots 3's at a great clip and would be that floor spacer we would want next to cousins.... Lets face it... of the 4 teams left in the Playoffs they're all major 3pt shooting teams and have smaller lineups... They have at most 1 TRUE BIG MAN on the floor most of the time otherwise its tweener SF/PF players in the front line. I was including JT or Landry as a salary dump. We need to get rid of one of those guys. I'd do it for 2nd round picks and a washing machine if I could. So that we could like you said just have a do over and the money to straight up sign a good player. BUT... we dont.

so... I really see the trade as 6th and Nic for Harris while dumping Landry or whoever. A front line of Gay, Harris and Cousins at least offensively would be pretty versatile. But its not a good fit defensively I guess... Although Cousins while not being a shot blocker has really grown a lot as a presence around the rim defensively...

Yes but you don't just need a combo forward - you need a combo forward that embraces his role as a hustling defender, rebounder and playmaker.
I didn't follow the Magic, so I don't know if Harris is that type of player.
And I'm reluctant to give away the pick. I do think this team needs a mobile defensive presence at the 4/5 spot and the draft actually looks like one promising way to get this type of player.
From my point of view Cousins with a duo of a lengthy, mobile defender (that can play the 5 too) and an aggressive combo forward at the 4 would put us in a superb position, because we would be able to adjust our playstyle to the opponents defense nad give them a lot of different sets and looks. Versatility never hurts.

 

[bajaden]

The fact remains that teams built like the four teams still in the playoffs have never won a championship, and the team that wins it this year will be the very first one of its kind. Which begs the question, is this truly the dawn of a new age, or is it just a fluke blip on the radar. And, even if this year's playoffs leads to more teams like these, contrary to what the three-point hippies would like us to believe, proving that winning with guards can work isn't the same thing as proving that winning with bigs doesn't work any more. There's no need to copy other teams' style, even if it does work, because we have something they don't: the best young big in the game. Build the team around his strengths, and don't worry about how the Jones' cut their grass.

I'm not sure exactly what kind of team your describing when you talk about the four teams that are left. Is the fact that they rely on the three point shot as one of their main weapons? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just a little confused. You say no team built like them has ever won a championship. What is the difference in the make up of this Warrior that so different from Jordan's Bulls. Or what's the difference between this Warrior team, and the 1974/75 Warrior team that won the championship with a center, Clifford Ray who was only 6'9" and was, except for 6'7" Rick Barry, and 6'8"Jamaal Wilkes, totally guard oriented. I grant you they didn't have the three point shot back then, but the make up of the team was similar. I guess what I'm asking is what defines these remaining teams from what you picture as a championship team?

 

[206Fan]

That moment when you realize Tobias Harris is only a year older than WCS.


I'd have no problem trading the #6 pick IF the FO and Karl saw that Harris would be a good fit at the 4. I don't think he is, which is why I wouldn't do it. But the #6 pick is fair for a player of Harris especially if it was a good contract.

 

[Gilles]

That moment is then followed by memory of Kings' stupidity from the middle of 2000s, when another offensive player was always the answer to this team's defensive struggles.

His own team allowed 4.5 less points per 100 possessions without him on the floor.
Remember that sequence of Kings 3 wins with smallball starting lineup? Well Kings' starting lineup was 123-121 over those 3 games, including allowing 1.1 PPP. The rest of the team? 201-170, including only .919 PPP allowed. That would be 18.1 point negative swing in team DRtg, when the biggest season difference between the best and worst defensive teams in the NBA over the last 10 years was in 07/08 - 13.9 (Bos at 98.9 - Mil at 112.8)
For the whole season Kings with Boogie on the floor with 2 SFs? 113.3 team DRtg
Boogie with another big? 102.0 team DRtg

I'm sure, that team employing Dean Oliver knows all these facts already. No, Kings are not going after Harris to put him between Cuz and Rudy, even if it were S&T just for Carl Landry and Jason Thompson, let alone #6 pick.

People cling to the idea, that playing Wilson Chandler as backup PF of a running team placed in the mountains for a few years means Karl wants to go full Nelly, when in 10/11 season this guy started Shelden Williams (spent next season on tanking Nets and was out of the league ever since) at PF.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm not sure exactly what kind of team your describing when you talk about the four teams that are left. Is the fact that they rely on the three point shot as one of their main weapons? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just a little confused. You say no team built like them has ever won a championship. What is the difference in the make up of this Warrior that so different from Jordan's Bulls. Or what's the difference between this Warrior team, and the 1974/75 Warrior team that won the championship with a center, Clifford Ray who was only 6'9" and was, except for 6'7" Rick Barry, and 6'8"Jamaal Wilkes, totally guard oriented. I grant you they didn't have the three point shot back then, but the make up of the team was similar. I guess what I'm asking is what defines these remaining teams from what you picture as a championship team?

Wait, what?

Except for that? Except for that? Except for Rick Barry and Jamaal Wilkes? You mean, except for two Hall of Fame forwards, they were "totally guard oriented" Well, except for that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?

I tell you what: I was only two weeks old when the Warriors won their last championship, so if you want to tell me that, other than their Hall of Fame forwards, that team was totally guard oriented, I'll defer to your wisdom. But I actually saw that Bulls team play. I'd submit that calling that team "guard oriented" is splitting hairs a bit. Both of those Bulls three-peats were 2/3/4, rather than 1/2/4, like the Warriors are; you may not think that's a big difference, but it really is. And I should hope that the differences between Jordan and Curry's games don't need much explaining.