3-pt shooter needs

CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#1
#1
One of the glaring holes in the Kings offense is lack of 3pt shooters now that MT and Jimmer are gone. How bad is it? Outlaw is now the best 3pt shooter on the Kings. Good 3pt shooters open up the floor for Cuz and Rudy and allow a much bigger flow to the game. But who would help? Which FA's?

Aykis16 at Sactown Royalty agreed with me in his "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" comments today that "someone like Jodie Meeks would be an excellent FA target". He is a deadly shooter from mid-range to deep 3 and a Free Agent this year on the worlds most dysfunctional NBA team.

Malone is in love with Thompson on the Warriors, and who wouldn't be? There are many others out there but who would fit with the new Kings philosophy and culture? Who would want to come joint Cuz, Rudy and IT to get to the next level? Not just 3pt shooters but ones who have their head on straight and are team players.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
#2
CruzDude said:
One of the glaring holes in the Kings offense is lack of 3pt shooters now that MT and Jimmer are gone. How bad is it? Outlaw is now the best 3pt shooter on the Kings.
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Made that exact same observation to a friend last night. And oh my isn't that pathetic. We were turning to Travis Outlaw as the only player on the roster with any hope of busting a zone for us.

Still amazed that coaching/management tagged defense, ball movement, and lack of shooters as problems when taking over...and a year later we have no obvious defenders, worst in the league ball movement, and traded away everything remotely looking like a shooter. One of the reasons I remain convinced this summer will be full of changes -- the complete failure of the stated goals the first time around.

Now onto your question:

1) much depends on two things we can't know: will Rudy opt out, will we resign IT?

2) Let's assume we keep Gay and keep IT. Let's further assume management still won't let go of its Ben love affair. At that point your positions to get possible three point shooting are roughly (highlighted):

PF - ? starter, maybe 15 min backup stretch?
SF - Gay 35min starter, 13 min backup
SG - starter, Ben 20 min backup (may improve)
PG - IT starter? or backup? 25-35min either way, so 15-30 min PG #2. if its Ray, not a three point shooter.

To me that looks like if we keep IT and Rudy we almost have to decorate all remaining available positions with 3pt shooters if we want to reach a critical mass. Most importantly probably that starting SG spot. And yet we know that between IT and Gay the starting SG cannot breathe for shots, suggesting a Korver type as the better fit. And yet we also know that between IT and Gay we don't have great defenders, suggesting a Tony Allen type in between. Combined you now need Tony Allen with Kyle Korver's shot, which I think pretty much means a HOFer.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#3
#3
If we keep IT, Gay, and Cuz, the three pt shooting ability of any of the two other players will be inconsequential. The three point shooters will not be able to get off any shots.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
#4
Bricklayer said:
Made that exact same observation to a friend last night. And oh my isn't that pathetic. We were turning to Travis Outlaw as the only player on the roster with any hope of busting a zone for us.

Still amazed that coaching/management tagged defense, ball movement, and lack of shooters as problems when taking over...and a year later we have no obvious defenders, worst in the league ball movement, and traded away everything remotely looking like a shooter. One of the reasons I remain convinced this summer will be full of changes -- the complete failure of the stated goals the first time around.

Now onto your question:

1) much depends on two things we can't know: will Rudy opt out, will we resign IT?

2) Let's assume we keep Gay and keep IT. Let's further assume management still won't let go of its Ben love affair. At that point your positions to get possible three point shooting are roughly (highlighted):

PF - ? starter, maybe 15 min backup stretch?
SF - Gay 35min starter, 13 min backup
SG - starter, Ben 20 min backup (may improve)
PG - IT starter? or backup? 25-35min either way, so 15-30 min PG #2. if its Ray, not a three point shooter.

To me that looks like if we keep IT and Rudy we almost have to decorate all remaining available positions with 3pt shooters if we want to reach a critical mass. Most importantly probably that starting SG spot. And yet we know that between IT and Gay the starting SG cannot breathe for shots, suggesting a Korver type as the better fit. And yet we also know that between IT and Gay we don't have great defenders, suggesting a Tony Allen type in between. Combined you now need Tony Allen with Kyle Korver's shot, which I think pretty much means a HOFer.
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What? You guys forgot about Jason Terry? :rolleyes: Well, he is on the team. At least for now, and he is a 38% lifetime shooter from the three. Of course he's 800 years old. Your right about needing some outside shooting. Not only helps break down zones, but it helps to spread the floor. If I had my choice, I'd love for it to come from the SF position, but we have Gay there and he'll eat up most of those minutes. I'm not a big fan of three point shooting PF's, but if you can get one that can also rebound and play D, then its OK. But I'd like a shotblocker there. Preferably it should come from the SG position. I think McLemore will eventually be fine there, but eventually doesn't help in the present. McLemore needs to come off the bench, and his minutes should depend on how productive he is. So if we can sign a player that can shoot the ball and play decent to good defense, I'm all for it.

There are a couple of players in the draft that could step in and be better overall right now than McLemore. Gary Harris is a very good shooter, and to boot, he's an excellent defender. However, he's a bit undersized at maybe 6'4". The other is Nik Stauskas, who fits all the descriptions except that he's not the defender Harris is. But he has size at 6'6" and he's a good athlete that can score from anywhere on the floor, and unlike McLemore, his BBIQ is off the charts.

I'd like to say a little bit about McLemore. I think the Kings drafted him knowing that he was raw, but with great potential. Every scout that saw him play raved about his form when he shot the ball. Add in that he's freak athlete, along with his press clippings, and you have a lottery pick. Thing is, the knock on him at Kansas was that he lacked aggression. He would just go to the corner and stand there waiting for the ball. Also, he tended to be inconsistent. So it wasn't as though you were drafting a player that you could just pop into the starting lineup from the get go. But that's exactly what the Kings did. I guess we'll see whether that approach pays off or not. But at the moment, he wouldn't be starting for any team with playoff visions. While I hoped for better, I figured it would take a couple of years for McLemore to reach whatever potential he has. So unless he dramatically improves over the summer, we need to find a starting SG. I'd love to snag Jemery Lamb from the Thunder, but I doubt they'd give him up.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#5
#5
bajaden said:
I'd like to say a little bit about McLemore. I think the Kings drafted him knowing that he was raw, but with great potential. Every scout that saw him play raved about his form when he shot the ball. Add in that he's freak athlete, along with his press clippings, and you have a lottery pick. Thing is, the knock on him at Kansas was that he lacked aggression. He would just go to the corner and stand there waiting for the ball. Also, he tended to be inconsistent.
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Let me first say that I don't pretend to know whether McLemore will pan out or not. But I feel the need to bring up a comparison I've brought up before when discussing Ben's struggles this season.

Peja Stojakovic.

Take a look at Peja's numbers his rookie season - specifically shooting - and compare them to McLemore. They are eerily similar across the board. And Peja was essentially the same age his rookie campaign as Ben is now.

Like Ben, Peja came into the league known for shooting. We know how Peja eventually turned out, but, after season #1, he didn't look any more promising than Ben does now. Keep in mind that Peja had several advantages that Ben didn't have. Peja had better teammates around him his rookie season. He also had 3+ seasons of professional playing experience in Europe.

The point is, there is still hope for Ben. A great shooter like Peja didn't make it happen overnight. He was just as awful, inconsistent, and totally lost on defense as Ben has been. Peja's sophomore season wasn't all that much better. His big jump didn't happen til year three ... And that includes his 3pt%.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#7
#7
Well, Tyreke's new friend Anthony Morrow has a PO at just $1,145,685. Gordon and Holiday will return healthy next season, Rivers will still be there, so Morrow might want a change of scenery. Money will be scarce, if Rudy opts in and IT gets over MLE, but there's always a way to squeeze in a guy, who can provide, what the rest of the roster can't.
 
C

cuad

Starter
#9
#9
At SG, I think the team needs a Tyreke Evans replacement, someone fast who wants to attack the basket and can do so reliably, so I wouldn't reserve that spot for a three point shooter.
 
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C

cuad

Starter
#13
#13
Rudy can't do that. He turns the ball over too much trying. He should be relied on mostly for spot up threes and post/face ups. Cousins can do it, but he's not about to become a regular ball handler turning the corner on pick and rolls or a player who regularly leaks out or pushes it in transition. He's better off throwing outlet passes and then walking up the court most of the time.
 
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King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#15
#15
cuad said:
Rudy can't do that. He turns the ball over too much trying. He should be relied on mostly for spot up threes and post/face ups. Cousins can do it, but he's not about to become a regular ball handler turning the corner on pick and rolls or a player who regularly leaks out or pushes it in transition. He's better off throwing outlet passes and then walking up the court most of the time.
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All the games I have watched this year have seen Cousins and Gay get the ball from their spots and score. Sure they are not "ball handlers" in a way a PG is. But both of those guys go one on one and score the ball on a good percentage this season with the Kings. The problem area is outside shooting and the defensive side if the ball.
 
H

HighFlyingMonkey

Starter
#19
#19
Isaiah's a solid shooter. His 3pt% was hovering around 40% before his wrist injury earlier.

Rudy's a career 34-35% 3 point shooter. About league average.

But if we really want to improve shooting, we are going to need an elite shooter at the SG spot. A 42-43% type. I think we absolutely must bring in a SG shooting specialist this offseason. Ben may very well end up starting but there is still a hole at backup SG. If Ben isn't ready, then you start your offseason SG acquisition and let Ben develop off the bench.

A Jodie Meeks type would do wonders for the team.

IT/McCallum
McLemore/Meeks (Could be switched depending on the speed of Ben's development)
Gay/Williams/Outlaw
PF Acquisition/Evans/Landry
Cousins/JT

One of JT/Landry has to go.
 
S

SacKings2002NBAChampions

Guest
#21
#21
KingsFanSince85 said:
Let me first say that I don't pretend to know whether McLemore will pan out or not. But I feel the need to bring up a comparison I've brought up before when discussing Ben's struggles this season.

Peja Stojakovic.

Take a look at Peja's numbers his rookie season - specifically shooting - and compare them to McLemore. They are eerily similar across the board. And Peja was essentially the same age his rookie campaign as Ben is now.

Like Ben, Peja came into the league known for shooting. We know how Peja eventually turned out, but, after season #1, he didn't look any more promising than Ben does now. Keep in mind that Peja had several advantages that Ben didn't have. Peja had better teammates around him his rookie season. He also had 3+ seasons of professional playing experience in Europe.

The point is, there is still hope for Ben. A great shooter like Peja didn't make it happen overnight. He was just as awful, inconsistent, and totally lost on defense as Ben has been. Peja's sophomore season wasn't all that much better. His big jump didn't happen til year three ... And that includes his 3pt%.
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It's different....Stojakovic came from Europe. That's a huge step from Europe to NBA style of play. I've never seen a European player flourish in their rookie year. It's practically impossible. Some players take even longer to develop like Dragic. Stojakovic developed quickly because he had Vlade by his side who mentored him throughout his career. If it wasn't for Vlade, who knows how long or if at all to see Stojakovic at his prime.

Ben Mac is your typical out of college player who just got used to the college style of play and is now transitioning slowly into the NBA. He's playing for one of the worst basketball clubs in the game. Also, played the majority of the season wight a ball-hog point guard. That and he has been a 4th scoring option on the team if not 5th at times. So, it's definitely not his fault. I'm glad that Malone has been forcing him to take at least 10 shots per game whether he is on or not. This is extremely important to stabilize his confidence going in to the next season. I can't wait to see what he will be like next season.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
Gilles said:
Well, Tyreke's new friend Anthony Morrow has a PO at just $1,145,685. Gordon and Holiday will return healthy next season, Rivers will still be there, so Morrow might want a change of scenery. Money will be scarce, if Rudy opts in and IT gets over MLE, but there's always a way to squeeze in a guy, who can provide, what the rest of the roster can't.
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We should go after Morrow just because we wouldn't have to face him anymore. Seriously, I've liked Morrow for some time. Just don't know if we can afford him if everything falls as you posted it.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#23
#23
cuad said:
At SG, I think the team needs a Tyreke Evans replacement, someone fast who wants to attack the basket and can do so reliably, so I wouldn't reserve that spot for a three point shooter.
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Sooooooo! If we could find a player that can attack the basket in Tyreke like fashion, you wouldn't want him if he also turned out to be a good 3 pt shooter?:rolleyes:
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#24
#24
cuad said:
Rudy can't do that. He turns the ball over too much trying. He should be relied on mostly for spot up threes and post/face ups. Cousins can do it, but he's not about to become a regular ball handler turning the corner on pick and rolls or a player who regularly leaks out or pushes it in transition. He's better off throwing outlet passes and then walking up the court most of the time.
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Were one of the worse three point shooting teams in the league. Teams have no trouble doubling on Cousins because they don't fear leaving one or even two of our outside shooters to do so. We need a legit outside threat! Hell, we need more than one.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#25
#25
I don't think we need one, damn the stats. McLemore is going to start connecting sooner or later. I just don't think 3pt shooting is a high priority.
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#26
#26
Chupacabra said:
I don't think we need one, damn the stats. McLemore is going to start connecting sooner or later. I just don't think 3pt shooting is a high priority.
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how the shooter gonna get in a rhythm when he sees the ball once in a blue moon. pizza boy is delivering the pie to ben once or twice a game. now that he's playing with ray, he sees it a few times regularly in a game.
 
CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#28
#28
Let's get back to the origional thepread topic, 3-pt shooters the Kings can/sbould/could go after. My fav on is Jodie Meeks who is FA. What others?
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#29
#29
A Meeks or Morrow would be great to have...situational guys that can knock down a 3. Ben has the shot to knock them down on a consistent basis as he gets better. Being able to space the floor with 3 point shooters around a Cousins would be a good situational offense.
 
CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#30
#30
Jeremy Lin comes to mind, a FA this summer. A 6-5 PG who defends ok, shoots the 3 and distributes. Saw him in summer league few years back and liked his game.
 
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