Timberwolves @ Kings Game Thread

[venom_7]

Al Thornton is the next Ricky Davis. Whether he is always on a losing team remains to be seen, but thats that. I'd take Hawes over him everyday. I didn't see the game, but I heard the refs sucked again. Its bound to happen when you rely on them to win you a game.
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The Kings proved that they are a last place team without their two leading scorers against the Clips.
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I'll keep it short and sweet.

TDM - pick somebody. either Powell or Dickau
LW-VC Award - Cuttino Mobley - 40 mins - 3 pts
SAR-Methusaleh award - AJ. its getting to a point where my eyes hurt everytime he steps on the floor
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Beno - You are not tasmanian
Kmart - get well soon
Ron - quote by ? "If you get hurt like Kevin, thats ok, but when you call in sick right before you half to work and walk into a mcdonalds when you work at a burger king, then something is wrong."
Mikki- if they had a TDM award, you wouldve gotten it
Brad- things never go your way it seems

AJ- at this point I wish we had Jason Hart
Cisco- we all have love for you
Salmons- well you got the start
Hawes - keep it up
Shelden - cool

rest - old

[tyrant]

the clash of the titans.

beno-keeping shooting
spencer-same as beno
thomas-i saw what you were doing with the camera man last night. KNOCK IT OFF.
artest-we're 27-34. shut your mouth
miller-keep those rebounds up
moore-please produce. so we can trade your arse
theus-please keep playing the younger guys. you're embarrassing yourself

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by venom_7

eventually
btw
Al Thornton is the next Ricky Davis. Whether he is always on a losing team remains to be seen, but thats that. I'd take Hawes over him everyday. I didn't see the game, but I heard the refs sucked again. Its bound to happen when you rely on them to win you a game.

Actually, the game asserted why I wanted Al Thornton over Spencer Hawes in the first place. Yes, I can see where the comparisons to Ricky Davis come from--super athletic, smooth jumpshot, boneheaded, forces things--but I don't think it's that bad; come on, the guy had a reverse dunk over Brad Miller in double OT, and he hit a clutch three. The Clips are clearly making him their go-to guy (yes, a rookie who got snubbed in the rookie-soph game their go-to guy) and because he's still a rookie, you've got to take the good with the bad. Yeah, I know he had 10 turnovers (screwed my fantasy) in that game against Philly, but come on, he's a guy definitely on the rise and he's had the benefit of extra playing time. And I don't think he has any selfishness issues to speak of--seeing the game, he's only taking the scoring load because the Clippers need it. If he were on our team, I'm not saying he'd be our next young cultivation of G-Wall--but come on, the athleticism is nearly uncanny, and the guy has a jumpshot. While I like Hawes, particularly with the blocks he's accumulated the past couple of games, I don't think he has quite the upside Thornton has. I mean, he'll be good for us and perhaps an heir apparent to Brad Miller, but we saw why Thornton was so good last night.

[venom_7]

Originally Posted by Arby's Roast Beef

Actually, the game asserted why I wanted Al Thornton over Spencer Hawes in the first place. Yes, I can see where the comparisons to Ricky Davis come from--super athletic, smooth jumpshot, boneheaded, forces things--but I don't think it's that bad; come on, the guy had a reverse dunk over Brad Miller in double OT, and he hit a clutch three. The Clips are clearly making him their go-to guy (yes, a rookie who got snubbed in the rookie-soph game their go-to guy) and because he's still a rookie, you've got to take the good with the bad. Yeah, I know he had 10 turnovers (screwed my fantasy) in that game against Philly, but come on, he's a guy definitely on the rise and he's had the benefit of extra playing time. And I don't think he has any selfishness issues to speak of--seeing the game, he's only taking the scoring load because the Clippers need it. If he were on our team, I'm not saying he'd be our next young cultivation of G-Wall--but come on, the athleticism is nearly uncanny, and the guy has a jumpshot. While I like Hawes, particularly with the blocks he's accumulated the past couple of games, I don't think he has quite the upside Thornton has. I mean, he'll be good for us and perhaps an heir apparent to Brad Miller, but we saw why Thornton was so good last night.

Valid points, but good centers are much harder to find than good wingmen. Also, if Spencer turns into a Chris Kaman type, with Thornton being a Ricky Davis type, I will be more than happy.

[hrdboild]

Unfortunately I had to work so I wasn't able to watch the game, but I'm on the record for preferring Al Thornton on draft day (or pretty much anyone but Spencer Hawes) so I've been keeping an eye on his boxscores throughout the season. I haven't seen him play this season, but my impression before the draft was that he was already a legitimate NBA player and I think the numbers attest to that. That being said, I'll agree that finding a quality big man in the NBA is generally a lot harder than finding a wing player so ultimately Petrie probably made the right decision. With our roster (and general history of not playing rookies) Thornton likely would have gotten the Gerald Wallace treatment here anyway whereas Spencer is getting opportunities to play and showing, to my surprise I'll admit, that he's a legitimate NBA player too. Watching a lot of PAC 10 basketball and seeing what a mess Washington was last year I had my doubts, but the kid can play. I do wish we'd see more of those post moves and less of the long jump shots, but it is a nice looking shot so it's hard to complain too loudly.

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Originally Posted by Arby's Roast Beef

Actually, the game asserted why I wanted Al Thornton over Spencer Hawes in the first place. Yes, I can see where the comparisons to Ricky Davis come from--super athletic, smooth jumpshot, boneheaded, forces things--but I don't think it's that bad; come on, the guy had a reverse dunk over Brad Miller in double OT, and he hit a clutch three. The Clips are clearly making him their go-to guy (yes, a rookie who got snubbed in the rookie-soph game their go-to guy) and because he's still a rookie, you've got to take the good with the bad. Yeah, I know he had 10 turnovers (screwed my fantasy) in that game against Philly, but come on, he's a guy definitely on the rise and he's had the benefit of extra playing time. And I don't think he has any selfishness issues to speak of--seeing the game, he's only taking the scoring load because the Clippers need it. If he were on our team, I'm not saying he'd be our next young cultivation of G-Wall--but come on, the athleticism is nearly uncanny, and the guy has a jumpshot. While I like Hawes, particularly with the blocks he's accumulated the past couple of games, I don't think he has quite the upside Thornton has. I mean, he'll be good for us and perhaps an heir apparent to Brad Miller, but we saw why Thornton was so good last night.

Last night confirmed why I didn't want Thornton. Don't get me wrong, he's going to be a good player, but not the right player for us at all. He's still very much one dimensional and a very inconsistent defender. Basically the SF version of Kmart. I may sound like I hate the guy, but we really have enough scorers on this team that can't create for others.

And in reality, I don't think he's going to get much better than he already is. He's already 24, you can expect to see incremental upgrades to him, but I don't foresee a massive jump into superstardom in him.

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Originally Posted by venom_7

Valid points, but good centers are much harder to find than good wingmen. Also, if Spencer turns into a Chris Kaman type, with Thornton being a Ricky Davis type, I will be more than happy.

Spencer will never be a Kaman-type of player, he can block a few shots and grab a few rebounds, but Kaman plays a different game. If Spencer takes after Brad or Vlade I'll be happy...that's probably closer than Kaman, I think.

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Circa_1985_Fan

Spencer will never be a Kaman-type of player, he can block a few shots and grab a few rebounds, but Kaman plays a different game. If Spencer takes after Brad or Vlade I'll be happy...that's probably closer than Kaman, I think.

Agreed. Kaman always seemed to have a natural mean streak to him--always forces his moves aggressively, jumps at everything, externally his moves look unrefined but his skill set is excellent. Hawes is definitely more finesse; has a bag of tricks offensively including his penchance earlier in the season to shoot threes, but at least now he isn't rushing his shots, is gaining confidence with playing time and in general settling down to make a solid impact off the bench. He's a throwback center. I do see him become an offensive inside-outside guy at his prime with passing skills, sort of like Miller or Divac.

[kennadog]

Spencer already has more post moves than Brad.

Thorton is 24 yo with four years of college ball, I believe. Spencer is 19 yo with one year of college.

I hope no one is basing their opinion of Thornton primarily on last night's game. He was playing against the Kings.

[Jechtsphere]

Originally Posted by kennadog

Spencer already has more post moves than Brad.

That's not saying much, I mean I have more post moves than Brad

But I'm glad we took Spencer over Thorton, it's a lot tougher to find a good center, not that hard to find a good SF as we've found plenty in the draft.

[Bricklayer]

Originally Posted by kennadog

I hope no one is basing their opinion of Thornton primarily on last night's game. He was playing against the Kings.

Not just this game. Thornton has been coming on very strong the second half of the season. Averaged 17.4pts 6.3rebs 1.4ast in February, and 18.0pts 4.3rebs 1.0ast so far in March. Got off to a slow start, but he's emerging as first team all rookie.

[kennadog]

^^I was being facetious.

[tyrant]

Originally Posted by kennadog

Spencer already has more post moves than Brad.

Thorton is 24 yo with four years of college ball, I believe. Spencer is 19 yo with one year of college.

I hope no one is basing their opinion of Thornton primarily on last night's game. He was playing against the Kings.

kwame brown will tell you...age aint nothin but a number. he's still sucking with the best of them. didnt jordan go through all 4 years? or was it 3? if you're good you're good. coming in the league at age 19 doesnt mean you'll be better than someone coming in with college experience.

[kennadog]

Originally Posted by tyrant

kwame brown will tell you...age aint nothin but a number. he's still sucking with the best of them. didnt jordan go through all 4 years? or was it 3? if you're good you're good. coming in the league at age 19 doesnt mean you'll be better than someone coming in with college experience.

Obviously not. However, to say that a player who's finished physically growing and has three more years of experience will be better is also obviously not true. My point was, it is far to early to decide who will be better than whom at their respective positions.

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by Arby's Roast Beef

Agreed. Kaman always seemed to have a natural mean streak to him--always forces his moves aggressively, jumps at everything, externally his moves look unrefined but his skill set is excellent. Hawes is definitely more finesse; has a bag of tricks offensively including his penchance earlier in the season to shoot threes, but at least now he isn't rushing his shots, is gaining confidence with playing time and in general settling down to make a solid impact off the bench. He's a throwback center. I do see him become an offensive inside-outside guy at his prime with passing skills, sort of like Miller or Divac.

It has been noted by a few different people that Hawes has a very competitive nature with an aggressive streak in him. I just think he needs to get comfortable to truly unleash it. I think we'll see the aggression later on, maybe not this year, but we'll see it. The guy is a competitor.

[Kingster]

Originally Posted by Arby's Roast Beef

Actually, the game asserted why I wanted Al Thornton over Spencer Hawes in the first place. Yes, I can see where the comparisons to Ricky Davis come from--super athletic, smooth jumpshot, boneheaded, forces things--but I don't think it's that bad; come on, the guy had a reverse dunk over Brad Miller in double OT, and he hit a clutch three. The Clips are clearly making him their go-to guy (yes, a rookie who got snubbed in the rookie-soph game their go-to guy) and because he's still a rookie, you've got to take the good with the bad. Yeah, I know he had 10 turnovers (screwed my fantasy) in that game against Philly, but come on, he's a guy definitely on the rise and he's had the benefit of extra playing time. And I don't think he has any selfishness issues to speak of--seeing the game, he's only taking the scoring load because the Clippers need it. If he were on our team, I'm not saying he'd be our next young cultivation of G-Wall--but come on, the athleticism is nearly uncanny, and the guy has a jumpshot. While I like Hawes, particularly with the blocks he's accumulated the past couple of games, I don't think he has quite the upside Thornton has. I mean, he'll be good for us and perhaps an heir apparent to Brad Miller, but we saw why Thornton was so good last night.

Thornton is 24, Hawes 19. Who has the upside?

[tyrant]

Originally Posted by Kingster

Thornton is 24, Hawes 19. Who has the upside?

well, like i said before; younger doesnt mean you have the potential to be better. it just means you have more time to get better. agree?

[Kingster]

Originally Posted by Circa_1985_Fan

Spencer will never be a Kaman-type of player, he can block a few shots and grab a few rebounds, but Kaman plays a different game. If Spencer takes after Brad or Vlade I'll be happy...that's probably closer than Kaman, I think.

Spencer can be a much better scorer than Kaman. You'll just have to wait 5 years to see it, when he will be the same age as Kaman is now.

[Kingster]

Originally Posted by tyrant

well, like i said before; younger doesnt mean you have the potential to be better. it just means you have more time to get better. agree?

I agree with the general proposition. But big man are notorious for taking longer to develop than wings, which makes Hawes current play all that much more impressive. With normal progress, in three years - age 22, he'll definitely be better than Thornton is now at age 24 in my opinion. He's got excellent hands, good footwork, amidextrous, very good shooter, good passer, able rebounder, and he blocks some shots. He also has a very high basketball IQ, which I think is key for future development. And he's a tough player. He's certainly no Divac. It took 10 years for Divac to learn what toughness means. I don't see a superstar, and I don't see a defensive giant, but I do see a guy who is going to be a bigtime scorer after he develops some strength and gain some experience.

[Quincy8Douby]

anyone know if martin and artest are playing tonight?