Our Guard and Usage

[Bricklayer]

I'm going to return here to a theme I touched on a month ago, but that remains eternally vexing. Tyreke Evans shot 10-17 two nights ago. Last night he shot 8-12. These are not uncommon occurrences. Yet he again was forgotten about and back burnered for extended stretchs of each game while lesser talents displayed their own, unique, interpretations of how to dominate the ball.(*Should note btw that in recent weeks there has been some positive movement on this by Smart. Emphasis on some. He still seems confused and erratic on the topic).


Here are some numbers on our Guard. You will notice I used the singlar there. And capitalized it. Neither is by accident:

Tyreke Evans, since returning from injury (20 games):
January: 29.9min 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk
Febrary: 33.6min 16.7pts (.517 .100 .686) 3.9reb 3.6ast 1.3stl 0.1blk

Tyreke Evans, season FG%: .480

Tyreke Evans season FG% compared to all other NBA guards:

-- our guard who is 6th amongst guards in FG%, is 72nd in the league in FGA, virtually tied with Anderosn Varejao and JJ Reddick.


Tyreke Evans selected stats compared to all players routinely taking minutes and shots from Tyreke Evans:

Player	Min	Pts	FG%	FGA/36	USG*
Tyreke Evans	31.1	15.3	.480	13.6	22.9
Isaiah Thomas	24.8	12.1	.432	13.8!!	22.7!!
Marcus Thornton	23.8	11.5	.400	15.7!!	22.7!!
John Salmons	29.1	8.9	.411	9.9	15.0
Aaron Brooks	21.1	8.1	.465	11.3	18.1
Jimmer Fredette	14.2	7.3	.412	15.0!!	24.0!!
James Johnson	17.1	5.4	.416	11.5	19.0
Francisco Garcia	17.9	5.3	.383	10.4	14.6
Travis Outlaw	11.8	4.7	.380	14.3!!	21.1!!

*USG rate is a stat that takes FGA, FTA and TO per minute, then adjusts for pace to try to estimate the percentage of possessions a player uses while on the floor.

I would also again like to point out the much reviled Aaron Brooks there as the only other guard on the roster without either a lousy FG%, a stupidly high usage rate, or both.

[Glenn]

Usually Tyreke is removed with about 3-4 minutes left to go in the first quarter as this is MT's time to be inserted. I mean it exactly as stated. This is the time apparently negotiated between Smart and MT that he can enter the game. MT simply inserts himself without asking permission. I DO think this attraction of Smart to MT causes problems and could most easily, no matter who the coach, be solved by trading MT either alone or as a package to get ourself some one else who fits better, perhaps a shot blocker. MT's skills, which at one time seemed amazing, could best be used as trade bait.

I thought in the last game that Smart had an open door to use Tyreke as much as he wished as MT was not suited. Tyreke started off great and got a few more minutes but not even as many minutes as he did as a rookie. Smart has it fixed in his mind that people are given a certain number of minutes no matter how well or poorly they are playing. Let us note that in the game before last, MT had a poor shooting night. These last two games are two of the best games Tyreke has had as a King and who knows how well he would have done if allowed to play more. Characteristically, Tyreke comes out and has trouble getting his shooting rhythm back in the late 2nd quarter.

Tyreke in the past has proven that he can play close to 40 minutes routinely so why not especially when he is on fire.

These choices by Smart seem to be at a level that a grade school coach could manage but he doesn't. It is good reason to think that under new ownership and with a new coach, Tyreke would return to beast mode with regularity. I know a little about the x's and o's of basketball but one thing I am good at is figuring out a way to allocate minutes. This is beyond Smart and yet another year of Tyreke's career is wasted.

[Bibbilicious]

You know how it goes, gotta rest those 23 year old legs....I remember two games ago it drove me crazy that he was dominating in the first quarter so Smart's reaction was to ice him for the entire second quarter. Then he came out at the half and wasnt the same.

[Glenn]

Then there is the issue of IT. I actually like IT and used to like MT until he seemed to lose his game but neither fits with Tyreke. Same goes with Brooks. I think Jimmer might be more adaptable than IT or Brooks but we may never find out. It seems like we have tradeable pieces that are decent ball players and could get us good quality in return. We cannot continue with IT as a starter although he might be the energy and scoring we need off the bench. These are my opinions. It is a wasted year as I think some trades could have been made and the team improved even with the Maloof's pig headed unwillingness to get a better coach.

[Bricklayer]

I was going to further tweak these stats when NBA.com decided to use the All Star break as a time to radically redo the stats/profiles on their site for the first time in 5 years. Messed up my inital presentation (can't figure out how to sort by guards anymore and may have to use yahoo) but a lot of what they have done could be real nice once you get used to it. here for instance is a simple chart for Tyreke of his FGA over his entire career, graphically presented:



As you can see, right there in the numbers Reke's marginalization under Keith Smart. Death by Smart we could call it. As it is helping Smart to kill his own career, you could also call it Death to Smart.

[Spike]

But Brick - look at how even those usage rates are. This is team ball at its finest! Clearly the stats show that we are playing team ball!

[HndsmCelt]

The problem is distribution. Yes I know a 100 other people have said so a 1000 times but that only under-scores the truth. Evans likes to score and as a non-traditional PG that creates problems with ball movement. I liked the idea of moving him to the 2 spot, but with no pass first PG in his place we have the same problem of poor ball movement bu with LESS efficient score first guys taking the shots and NOT getting the the ball to Evans. IF we had a GM/Coach who were not just phoning it in while waiting to see who will be signing checks next season, they would do one of 2 things. If we are going to play a traditional offense we need to shed some guards NOT named Evans and bring in a play maker (Calderon?) keeping Tyreke at the 2. OR if a resourceful coach were at the helm he might look at the team as it is currently comprised as decide to initiate play from either the elbow with Cousins/Hayes (my preference) or even at the weak side through Salmons/Garcia. I Like It as spark plug off the bench but his shoot first mentality is killing the offense, and Brooks over-dribbling also slows things down and freezes out other players.

[Gilles]

This team doesn't need a full-time true PG. Cousins best trait offensively is probably passing (he is certainly not a finisher) and Tyreke as SG is a very good passer even if it's primarily drive-and-dish. Kings need a guy who can bring up the ball under pressure, move it well, be able to make post entry pass and run P&R to utilize Boogie fully, shoot very well from distance and be at least an average defender.

[Capt. Factorial]

Oh, no! Somebody "fixed" your thread title!

[Hadlowe]

The problem is distribution. Yes I know a 100 other people have said so a 1000 times but that only under-scores the truth. Evans likes to score and as a non-traditional PG that creates problems with ball movement. I liked the idea of moving him to the 2 spot, but with no pass first PG in his place we have the same problem of poor ball movement bu with LESS efficient score first guys taking the shots and NOT getting the the ball to Evans. IF we had a GM/Coach who were not just phoning it in while waiting to see who will be signing checks next season, they would do one of 2 things. If we are going to play a traditional offense we need to shed some guards NOT named Evans and bring in a play maker (Calderon?) keeping Tyreke at the 2. OR if a resourceful coach were at the helm he might look at the team as it is currently comprised as decide to initiate play from either the elbow with Cousins/Hayes (my preference) or even at the weak side through Salmons/Garcia. I Like It as spark plug off the bench but his shoot first mentality is killing the offense, and Brooks over-dribbling also slows things down and freezes out other players.

I disagree with this almost entirely. Evans is not a point guard. However, he has better court vision and playmaking abilities than any other 2-guard in the league not named Kobe or Harden. During the Lakers' run as the big cats over the last decade, they ran Derek Fisher as the point guard. He had three jobs: 1) foul hard on opposing players; 2) bring the ball over the half-court line and pass to Kobe; and 3) hover around the three point line for kickouts from Kobe and [insert post player here].

Derek Fisher averaged 3 assists per game for his career. He didn't need to do anything more than that to be effective. More importantly, he took only about 5 shots per game and let the stars do their work.

Now, do I think Tyreke is as good as Kobe? No. He is in the same mold, though -- a ball-dominant 2-guard who is best when scoring at the rim. So why do we keep insisting that his backcourt partner should be the ball-handler and playmaker? Ideally, the guy next to Tyreke does not need the ball to be effective and can space the floor. I think that's what Geoff thought he was getting when he drafted Jimmer. Jimmer has underperformed so far, but the IT as starter experiment has done nothing but artificially elevate IT as a "star" on a bad team. If any of our three point guards were to play 30 minutes per game where they give five hard fouls, knock down three wide-open threes created by Cousins or Tyreke, and do nothing else altogether, I think we would be staring at .500 ball right now.

[rainmaker]

This isn't new. This argument has been stated repeatedly. We're just stating the same s*** over and over again. We know the problem. We know the solution. We also know nothing changes under the current head coach and current ownership.

All this is just an exercise in banging one's head against a wall. Nothing has changed since this was brought up months ago nor will anything change until new ownership is in town and the current coach is gone. The only actual hope for change within this season is Reke's agent coming to town who appears to effect change when he does fly in.

[Čarolija]

This team doesn't need a full-time true PG. Cousins best trait offensively is probably passing (he is certainly not a finisher) and Tyreke as SG is a very good passer even if it's primarily drive-and-dish. Kings need a guy who can bring up the ball under pressure, move it well, be able to make post entry pass and run P&R to utilize Boogie fully, shoot very well from distance and be at least an average defender.

We had a guard who fit most of those traits and meshed well with Tyreke. His name was Beno Udrih.

[Big Cuz 15]

We had a guard who fit most of those traits and meshed well with Tyreke. His name was Beno Udrih.

we did.... can't jimmer fill that role?

[Bricklayer]

we did.... can't jimmer fill that role?

Player	Min	Pts	FG%	FGA/36	USG*
Jimmer Fredette	14.2	7.3	.412	15.0!!	24.0!!

Not that version of Jimmer.

For comparison this was what Beno looked like hsi last season with us:

Player	Min	Pts	FG%	FGA/36	USG*
Beno Udrih '10-11	34.6	13.7	.500	10.9	16.9

We have blatantly disrespected good roleplayers in this organization for a long time. We are paying for it. Much of the organization will pay for it with their jobs this summer. And they deserve to.

[Glenn]

Brick, I don't think the stats of a player who plays occasionally and with no discernable plan are very useful. He plays every other game and never knows what game he will play in. He is being asked to play a position that is unclear. I don't think we can conclude anything from Jimmer's stats. The only thing I know is that he looks much improved from last year. The only way we can know how Jimmer will play is to play him on a regular basis. Maybe he doesn't deserve that. Maybe he does. I DO know it will never happen as long as Keith Smart is coach.

If you want to use Jimmer's stats, compare him with other players in the NBA who get the same inconsistent minutes.

BTW, I would much rather have Beno than Jimmer. Beno is a FA this year.

[The_Jamal]

It all comes back to a lack of direction from our coaches. A player like IT, who can create for himself as a 3rd option, is a great player to have on the floor with Reke and Cousins. However, it has not been made clear to IT that he needs to be act like a 3rd option and defer to our top 2 guys. If he doesn't get on board, then we find someone who does.

It also doesn't help that Smart has built a mentality around here that no one's minutes are safe aside from Cousins and Reke on occasion. Meaning, Jimmer, Brooks, Thornton all come into the game thinking they have to put up huge numbers and thus hero-ball the whole time they are in. The same goes for Robinson and Johnson who come in thinking they have to do too much and often force bad plays.

When this team is rolling, we've shown the ability to compete with anyone in the league. This season has convinced me our core players can be effective if given the proper direction from our coaching staff

[HndsmCelt]

This isn't new. This argument has been stated repeatedly. We're just stating the same s*** over and over again. We know the problem. We know the solution. We also know nothing changes under the current head coach and current ownership.

All this is just an exercise in banging one's head against a wall. Nothing has changed since this was brought up months ago nor will anything change until new ownership is in town and the current coach is gone. The only actual hope for change within this season is Reke's agent coming to town who appears to effect change when he does fly in.

Well I can agree with that.

[Čarolija]

we did.... can't jimmer fill that role?

If he can drastically cut down his usage rate, dramatically improve his ball handling and play making and drastically improve his off the ball game....in other words...NO!!!

The great thing about Beno was that he could run the team and play off the ball! His offense was respected by the opposition without him ever taking over. He played off others to get his and he had the ability to feed everyone! He was also a leader, something we seriously lack. The only thing Beno lacked to be a perfect fit next to Tyreke is better defense and a more consistent spot up 3pt shooting. Everything else we needed, Beno had. He also played well with MT!

I am hoping that new ownership and a new coach come in and bring back Dally and Beno during the off-season. Keep Cuz (extension), Tyreke (re-sign) and JT (great 3rd big off the bench) and address that SF position with everyone else being expandable!

[Kingster]

I disagree with this almost entirely. Evans is not a point guard. However, he has better court vision and playmaking abilities than any other 2-guard in the league not named Kobe or Harden. During the Lakers' run as the big cats over the last decade, they ran Derek Fisher as the point guard. He had three jobs: 1) foul hard on opposing players; 2) bring the ball over the half-court line and pass to Kobe; and 3) hover around the three point line for kickouts from Kobe and [insert post player here].

Derek Fisher averaged 3 assists per game for his career. He didn't need to do anything more than that to be effective. More importantly, he took only about 5 shots per game and let the stars do their work.

Now, do I think Tyreke is as good as Kobe? No. He is in the same mold, though -- a ball-dominant 2-guard who is best when scoring at the rim. So why do we keep insisting that his backcourt partner should be the ball-handler and playmaker? Ideally, the guy next to Tyreke does not need the ball to be effective and can space the floor. I think that's what Geoff thought he was getting when he drafted Jimmer. Jimmer has underperformed so far, but the IT as starter experiment has done nothing but artificially elevate IT as a "star" on a bad team. If any of our three point guards were to play 30 minutes per game where they give five hard fouls, knock down three wide-open threes created by Cousins or Tyreke, and do nothing else altogether, I think we would be staring at .500 ball right now.

How do you reconcile his elite playmaking and court vision with repeatedly going one on two, one on three and charging into players? How do you reconcile him not being able to running a break? I just don't see it. We see virtually every game a stupid charge call with Tyreke. It is sooooooooo freaking old it must have occurred in the last century. I don't watch every game in the NBA to grade all the 2 guards that are out there, but I have a hard time believing there aren't a lot of two guards who can do a better job making decisions with the ball.

[spudfan]

How do you reconcile his elite playmaking and court vision with repeatedly going one on two, one on three and charging into players? How do you reconcile him not being able to running a break? I just don't see it. We see virtually every game a stupid charge call with Tyreke. It is sooooooooo freaking old it must have occurred in the last century. I don't watch every game in the NBA to grade all the 2 guards that are out there, but I have a hard time believing there aren't a lot of two guards who can do a better job making decisions with the ball.

He has improved the dumb charges he does, still has a ways to go. I wouldn't be surprised if how he runs the break has a LOT to do with the confidence he has in his team mates. If he is charging down the court and has Salmons or Jimmer with him I bet he is thinking he has a lot better chance at making the shot than giving it to them. I see him not dumping it off as a trust issue. Whether it is deserved or not, it is something he needs to work on.