Our Guards Since the New Year

[Bricklayer]

Evans 29.9min 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO on 10.3FG
IThom 27.6min 12.3pts (.425 .235 .787) 1.8reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.1blk 1.6TO on 10.2FG
MThor 18.8min 8.3pts (.398 .375 .889) 1.8reb 0.8ast 1.2stl 0.0blk 0.9TO on 7.8FG
Brooks 17.2min 6.7pts (.477 .308 .810) 1.6reb 1.7ast 0.5stl 0.1blk 1.2TO on 5.0FG
Fredet 15.1min 5.9pts (.333 .441 .882) 0.7reb 1.1ast 0.3stl 0.1blk 1.1TO on 5.8FG
Garcia 18.7min 5.0pts (.360 .318 1.00) 2.1reb 1.2ast 0.8stl 0.7blk 0.5TO on 5.0FG

FGAs per 36
MThor 14.9
Fredet 13.8
IThom 13.3
Evans 12.4
Brooks 10.5
Garcia 9.6

It is to laugh. Everybody has to play equal minutes. Everybody has to have equal shots. Your best, and indeed only guard who is playing well is buried and outchucked by stacks of guards shooting .100 points less than he is. He can't play more than 30min becuase we need to find minutes for a bunch of guys shooting sub .400.

At no point this season have we had to be as bad as we have been.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wanna see something interesting? Let's play a game. Let's call it the let's make the rest of the league as stupid as the Sacramento Kings game. To play this game I will now subject the league's top SGs to the same bull**** that we subject our top SG to. here is what happens to the numbers of the best guards of the game if you limit them to 29.9min and 10.3 shots:

Top SGs if limited to 29.9mpg and 10.3FGA by Smart and minichuckers
DWade 14.9pts (.509 .319 .744) 4.1reb 4.1ast 1.2stl 0.6blk 2.3TO
KBryan 15.7pts (.468 .342 .839) 3.9reb 4.1ast 1.1stl 0.1blk 2.6TO
Harden 17.2pts (.439 .328 .859) 3.4reb 4.2ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 3.0TO
Tyreke 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO

anybody think those teams are better off if they are coached that way? Anybody?

[LWP777]

Wow.

[swisshh]

I would move Thornton and Brooks for a legit PG in a heart beat. Of course, there won't be moves until the ownership situation is resolved.

[Padrino]

Evans 29.9min 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO on 10.3FG
IThom 27.6min 12.3pts (.425 .235 .787) 1.8reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.1blk 1.6TO on 10.2FG
MThor 18.8min 8.3pts (.398 .375 .889) 1.8reb 0.8ast 1.2stl 0.0blk 0.9TO on 7.8FG
Brooks 17.2min 6.7pts (.477 .308 .810) 1.6reb 1.7ast 0.5stl 0.1blk 1.2TO on 5.0FG
Fredet 15.1min 5.9pts (.333 .441 .882) 0.7reb 1.1ast 0.3stl 0.1blk 1.1TO on 5.8FG
Garcia 18.7min 5.0pts (.360 .318 1.00) 2.1reb 1.2ast 0.8stl 0.7blk 0.5TO on 5.0FG

FGAs per 36
MThor 14.9
Fredet 13.8
IThom 13.3
Evans 12.4
Brooks 10.5
Garcia 9.6

It is to laugh. Everybody has to play equal minutes. Everybody has to have equal shots. Your best, and indeed only guard who is playing well is buried and outchucked by stacks of guards shooting .100 points less than he is. He can't play more than 30min becuase we need to find minutes for a bunch of guys shooting sub .400.

At no point this season have we had to be as bad as we have been.

it is to laugh, indeed, and those who remain overly critical of evans are just as laughable, for the record. on the season, tyreke is now averaging 15 pts (.471, .378, .775), 5 rbs, 3 asts, and 1.5 stls in only 30 mins per game (as opposed to the 37 mpg he averaged as a rookie and sophomore, and 34 mpg he averaged as a third year player). his shooting percentages from the field and from 3 represent career highs and major improvements, and his rebounding at any position remains strong despite the significant decrease in minutes. he is perhaps the team's most consistent playmaker, his defense continues to improve, his off the ball movement has improved, and, though he still occasionally drives to the rim in an ill-advised manner, overall his decision-making has improved. yet so many here and elsewhere continue to wax on-and-on-and-on about the playing time of much lesser guards in the rotation. i just hope the kings manage to retain 'reke this offseason so that a new head coach with a new mandate from new ownership can start putting the ball back in his hands...

[LWP777]

it is to laugh, indeed, and those who remain overly critical of evans are just as laughable, for the record. on the season, tyreke is now averaging 15 pts (.471, .378, .775), 5 rbs, 3 asts, and 1.5 stls in only 30 mins per game (as opposed to the 37 mpg he averaged as a rookie and sophomore, and 34 mpg he averaged as a third year player). his shooting percentages from the field and from 3 represent career highs and major improvements, and his rebounding at any position remains strong despite the significant decrease in minutes. he is perhaps the team's most consistent playmaker, his defense continues to improve, his off the ball movement has improved, and, though he still occasionally drives to the rim in an ill-advised manner, overall his decision-making has improved. yet so many here and elsewhere continue to wax on-and-on-and-on about the playing time of much lesser guards in the rotation. i just hope the kings manage to retain 'reke this offseason so that a new head coach with a new mandate from new ownership can start putting the ball back in his hands...

I agree with you! I'd also like to add that Tyreke is a fine young man.

[Bricklayer]

Wanna see something interesting? Let's play a game. Let's call it the let's make the rest of the league as stupid as the Sacramento Kings game. To play this game I will now subject the league's top SGs to the same bull**** that we subject our top SG to. here is what happens to the numbers of the best guards of the game if you limit them to 29.9min and 10.3 shots:

Top SGs if limited to 29.9mpg and 10.3FGA by Smart and minichuckers
DWade 14.9pts (.509 .319 .744) 4.1reb 4.1ast 1.2stl 0.6blk 2.3TO
KBryan 15.7pts (.468 .342 .839) 3.9reb 4.1ast 1.1stl 0.1blk 2.6TO
Harden 17.2pts (.439 .328 .859) 3.4reb 4.2ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 3.0TO
Tyreke 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO

anybody think those teams are better off if they are coached that way? Anybody?

[rainmaker]

Well, yeah, a few of us have been pointing this out for awhile now. No roles, all our guards playing, all guards pretty much having a chucking role has basically neutered the one guy who sticks out above all of them.

It isn't just this either, when I was researching for my thread a little while ago, I saw this:

Reke w/ IT On Court
PTS-14.2
FGA-11.8
FG%-47
AST-3.1
+/- (-8.0)

Reke w/ IT Off Court
PTS-20.1
FGA-15.3
FG%-47
AST-3.9
+/- (-2.8)

Second, Reke averages 6 pts less per 36 with IT out there with him which is a significant number(20.1 vs 14.2) while getting up roughly three less shots per 36. But that isn't all. We regularly hear IT is a willing passer and doesn't take away from Reke. Well, not only is Reke scoring 6 pts less per 36 with IT out there and getting up three fewer shots per 36, but IT is taking more shots than Reke when they play together as well as averaging more points(16.3 vs 14.2).

Truly amazing. You can fault Smart for this sub platoon and not defining roles, but IT, our PG, also bears much of the criticism for both taking more shots than Reke when they play together and scoring more when they play together, while shooting a considerably worse % both FG's and from 3.

It's just all kinds of stupid. We've turned our 2nd best player into a support player, a role player, playing off lesser players. IT's Napoleon complex is not helping.

Reke is posting career highs in FG% and 3pt%, while posting career lows in mins(fault Smart) and career lows in FGA's(fault Smart/IT).

[Spike]

This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

[t-rex]

Wanna see something interesting? Let's play a game. Let's call it the let's make the rest of the league as stupid as the Sacramento Kings game. To play this game I will now subject the league's top SGs to the same bull**** that we subject our top SG to. here is what happens to the numbers of the best guards of the game if you limit them to 29.9min and 10.3 shots:

Top SGs if limited to 29.9mpg and 10.3FGA by Smart and minichuckers
DWade 14.9pts (.509 .319 .744) 4.1reb 4.1ast 1.2stl 0.6blk 2.3TO
KBryan 15.7pts (.468 .342 .839) 3.9reb 4.1ast 1.1stl 0.1blk 2.6TO
Harden 17.2pts (.439 .328 .859) 3.4reb 4.2ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 3.0TO
Tyreke 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO

anybody think those teams are better off if they are coached that way? Anybody?

That is pretty amazing stuff. I could imagine Kobe putting up with Keith Smart for all of about 5 minutes.

[rainmaker]

At a certain point Reke needs a little Westbrook in him. He has to demand more. Maybe part of it is being in a contract year and the ownership situation being up in the air, but he needs to stop accepting this. I see him calling for the ball and IT looking him off frequently, but he needs to literally start chewing guys out, from IT to Smart, if they keep acting like anyone besides Cuz is a better option.

[kupman]

Here's another view:

Who cares about individual stats? The only thing I care about is the team outcome. For the past 3 years I have been less than convinced that we are a better team with Evans on the floor. We win about 35% of our games with or without him. This sure stinks given that he has great talent. But for whatever the reason, we stink with him on the court and we stink with him off the court. You would think that our performance as a team would improve significantly with him in the game with all that talent.

We could blame it on Smart. We could blame it on Tyreke. Maybe it is nobody's fault. Maybe it's just is not working out very well.

Having said all of this, we will keep trying with him given the holding pattern of the organization.

[Bricklayer]

Here's another view:

Who cares about individual stats? The only thing I care about is the team outcome. For the past 3 years I have been less than convinced that we are a better team with Evans on the floor. We win about 35% of our games with or without him. This sure stinks given that he has great talent. But for whatever the reason, we stink with him on the court and we stink with him off the court. You would think that our performance as a team would improve significantly with him in the game with all that talent.

We could blame it on Smart. We could blame it on Tyreke. Maybe it is nobody's fault. Maybe it's just is not working out very well.

Having said all of this, we will keep trying with him given the holding pattern of the organization.

You just chose another stat -- win% -- except yours is hugely vague and uncontrolled and encompasses a huge number of variables.

Its as if I made a post about how lettuce has very few calories and showing its calories vs. those of Twinkies and cupcakes, and you responded with, well all I know is that I have eaten plenty of lettuce over the last 3 years, but I still have gotten fat. Lettuce must be causing it.

[funkykingston]

Imagine this team with Rick Adelman as coach.

Demarcus as the offensive hub working out of the block or the high post with guys cutting and moving without the ball and DMC and Evans working on a two man game ala Webb and Peja. And regardless of whether he was labeled as a PG or SG, Tyreke would have the ball in his hands a lot more than he does these days.

I would be any amount of money that this team would have a substantially better record. Remove the financial restrictions and Maloof meddling at I'd guarantee more success.

Yes, the Kings have been terrible over the last three seasons. I certainly don't list Tyreke anywhere near the top of the reasons why.

I can only hope this team stays in Sacramento under new and competent management. Because there is a lot of potential going to waste now.

[gunks]

Here's another view:

Who cares about individual stats? The only thing I care about is the team outcome. For the past 3 years I have been less than convinced that we are a better team with Evans on the floor. We win about 35% of our games with or without him. This sure stinks given that he has great talent. But for whatever the reason, we stink with him on the court and we stink with him off the court. You would think that our performance as a team would improve significantly with him in the game with all that talent.

We could blame it on Smart. We could blame it on Tyreke. Maybe it is nobody's fault. Maybe it's just is not working out very well.

Having said all of this, we will keep trying with him given the holding pattern of the organization.

Thing is, Tyreke has greatly improved as a player this year. His jumper is looking on, he has a 3pt shot, he is making better decisions. THIS is the Tyreke all us believers have been waiting for, the one who is finally starting to put it all together. And does he get the minutes he deserves? NOPE!

He is going to be a BEAST next season when he doesnt have Coach Dum Dum keeping him on the bench, hopefully he's a still a King when that happens.

[Kingster]

Evans 29.9min 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO on 10.3FG
IThom 27.6min 12.3pts (.425 .235 .787) 1.8reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 0.1blk 1.6TO on 10.2FG
MThor 18.8min 8.3pts (.398 .375 .889) 1.8reb 0.8ast 1.2stl 0.0blk 0.9TO on 7.8FG
Brooks 17.2min 6.7pts (.477 .308 .810) 1.6reb 1.7ast 0.5stl 0.1blk 1.2TO on 5.0FG
Fredet 15.1min 5.9pts (.333 .441 .882) 0.7reb 1.1ast 0.3stl 0.1blk 1.1TO on 5.8FG
Garcia 18.7min 5.0pts (.360 .318 1.00) 2.1reb 1.2ast 0.8stl 0.7blk 0.5TO on 5.0FG

FGAs per 36
MThor 14.9
Fredet 13.8
IThom 13.3
Evans 12.4
Brooks 10.5
Garcia 9.6

It is to laugh. Everybody has to play equal minutes. Everybody has to have equal shots. Your best, and indeed only guard who is playing well is buried and outchucked by stacks of guards shooting .100 points less than he is. He can't play more than 30min becuase we need to find minutes for a bunch of guys shooting sub .400.

At no point this season have we had to be as bad as we have been.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wanna see something interesting? Let's play a game. Let's call it the let's make the rest of the league as stupid as the Sacramento Kings game. To play this game I will now subject the league's top SGs to the same bull**** that we subject our top SG to. here is what happens to the numbers of the best guards of the game if you limit them to 29.9min and 10.3 shots:

Top SGs if limited to 29.9mpg and 10.3FGA by Smart and minichuckers
DWade 14.9pts (.509 .319 .744) 4.1reb 4.1ast 1.2stl 0.6blk 2.3TO
KBryan 15.7pts (.468 .342 .839) 3.9reb 4.1ast 1.1stl 0.1blk 2.6TO
Harden 17.2pts (.439 .328 .859) 3.4reb 4.2ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 3.0TO
Tyreke 14.7pts (.500 .533 .754) 5.2reb 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.1TO

anybody think those teams are better off if they are coached that way? Anybody?

I dunno, 30 minutes may be about right for him. The way he's getting back on D (or not) it seems like 30 minutes might be too much for him. There probably are several others that need less minutes also; they seem tired.

[Bricklayer]

I dunno, 30 minutes may be about right for him. The way he's getting back on D (or not) it seems like 30 minutes might be too much for him. There probably are several others that need less minutes also; they seem tired.

stop.

[Hadlowe]

As a possible explanation (though I am no Smart apologist), Evans is coming back off a knee injury. We don't know whether that is limiting his minutes at all.

Though, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say no.

[Padrino]

Here's another view:

Who cares about individual stats? The only thing I care about is the team outcome. For the past 3 years I have been less than convinced that we are a better team with Evans on the floor. We win about 35% of our games with or without him. This sure stinks given that he has great talent. But for whatever the reason, we stink with him on the court and we stink with him off the court. You would think that our performance as a team would improve significantly with him in the game with all that talent.

We could blame it on Smart. We could blame it on Tyreke. Maybe it is nobody's fault. Maybe it's just is not working out very well.

Having said all of this, we will keep trying with him given the holding pattern of the organization.

this is so terribly shortsighted. win % is not necessarily a helpful barometer for judging the individual impact of a young player on a young team, particularly one as mismatched, mismanaged, and miscoached as the kings. short of the lebron jamses and kevin durants of the world, you're gonna have a hard time finding a single player who will single-handedly win his team games regardless of context. but take the time and effort to successfully develop two very talented players like demarcus cousins and tyreke evans, support them with complimentary players and an experienced coaching staff, and you're well on your way to winning games. what you don't do is stunt their growth by curtailing their minutes, their touches, or their roles in the offense and defense in favor of far lesser players...

I dunno, 30 minutes may be about right for him. The way he's getting back on D (or not) it seems like 30 minutes might be too much for him. There probably are several others that need less minutes also; they seem tired.

i've said it before and i'll say it again: a young player is in shape to play the minutes he plays. if tyreke averages 30, then by the end of the season he's only in shape to play 30. but if tyreke averages 35, then by the end of the season he's in shape to play 35. "they seem tired"? who gives a ****?! this is the nba. you get in game shape by playing starter-worthy minutes. this is the very simple reality of conditioning that you seem consistently hellbent on ignoring, and we're not exactly talking about yao ming here, so, to echo brickie: "stop."

[LWP777]

Imagine this team with Rick Adelman as coach.

Demarcus as the offensive hub working out of the block or the high post with guys cutting and moving without the ball and DMC and Evans working on a two man game ala Webb and Peja. And regardless of whether he was labeled as a PG or SG, Tyreke would have the ball in his hands a lot more than he does these days.

I would be any amount of money that this team would have a substantially better record. Remove the financial restrictions and Maloof meddling at I'd guarantee more success.

Yes, the Kings have been terrible over the last three seasons. I certainly don't list Tyreke anywhere near the top of the reasons why.

I can only hope this team stays in Sacramento under new and competent management. Because there is a lot of potential going to waste now.

All this talk about if we had Adelman Cuz would turn into Webb and Evans would turn into Peja needs to stop. Cuzz and Reke are NOWHERE NEAR the ability of Webb and Peja right now. Also, Tyreke is not even the same type of player as Peja. Totally different.

[HereWeVivek]

the damage that this franchise and coach has done to Tyreke Evans career is amazing