I don'think JT is overvalued by anyone. There is only one on the team who shows up to work every day. A rare quality here. There are others who are overvalued like DMC and TE. Jason Thompson is not this team's problem.Originally Posted by jcassio
I don'think JT is overvalued by anyone. There is only one on the team who shows up to work every day. A rare quality here. There are others who are overvalued like DMC and TE. Jason Thompson is not this team's problem.
Who said he's the team's problem???
Jason would be a great third big off the bench on a winning team. If this teams roster were too blow up I wouldnt mind keeping him around to rebuild.
We Need Defense!!
While hes a nice guy and solid player theres probably over 30+ guys at PF in the NBA that are better and a few guys if given the same chance on a bad team would do the same/better.
I doubt you'd come up with 30 -- there are only 30 teams, and I'm tryign to think if any team but maybe Utah that has 2 better than him. And several teams (Houston, Charlotte, etc.) highly questionable if they have even one. Maybe 20 or so clearly a grade above, and then another 20 guys or so all in Jason's general range.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities." --Albert Einstein
"Petrie signings are more akin to the splash you get when you accidentally drop your toothbrush in the toilet. " -- swisshh
The Miami Heat would love to have JT right now. So would the Suns, Boston and quite a few others. When you look around the league, its sort of strange. You'll find one team like the Bucks or the Jazz that have a surplus of big men, and then you'll find quite a few teams that would love to just have one 6'11" athletic guy that knows how to play, doesn't demand the ball, rebounds, gives you 11 or so points a game, and defends farily well. Anyone that thinks there are 30 guys better is smoking something other than a cigarette.
Its hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.
K let me try than
Better than JT via Landslide 18
LaMarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh, Tim Duncan ,Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol , Blake Griffin , Al Horford , Serge Ibaka, David Lee, Kevin Love, Dirk Nowitzki, Zach Randolph , Josh Smith, David West , Al Jefferson
Simply better 14
Anthony Davis , Amar'e Stoudemire , Andrea Bargnani , Ryan Anderson, Carl Landry, Paul Millsap, Larry Sanders, Luis Scola, Nene Hilario , Anderson Varejao, Thaddeus Young, J.J. Hickson, Ersan Ilyasova, Kenneth Faried
Debatable/given same mins 10 (most of these are personal prefernce)
Derrick Favors: imo is easily better right now than JT hes just stuck behind a tough as hell frontline in Utah
Andray Blatche: far more skilled player avg 16 and 8 two seasons ago and is 11 and 6 this in less mins
Kevin Seraphin: more talented, skilled better mid range game and a better athlete
Ed Davis: getting starters mins since AB went down and has shown he can be a monster
Marreese Speights : stuck behind Gasol/ Zbo, is a elite mid range shooter, tough guy, better D
Drew Gooden: career double double in tough position with Bucks youth movement
Glen Davis: been Magic top player before injury on a team that overachieved so far
Boris Diaw: gifted passer/ball handler was fantastic in last year playoffs since he came to SAS
Carlos Boozer: if were not for his horrendus defense I'd have him over JT
Jason Maxiell: better defender bit undersized and better finish in traffic and around the rim
Last edited by andremiller07; 12-27-2012 at 05:20 PM. Reason: missed Kenneth Faried somehow
Bolded a few disagreements, and there was a miscount as well.
15 guys much better, 10 better, and maybe 10 or so in the same range.
So JT is not in the top 25, but well within the top 40. And considering he is interchangeable at the 5, very good 3rd big sounds about right.
Last edited by DesertFox; 12-27-2012 at 06:19 PM.
Jared Dudley- my white whale
Carl Landry right now is far better than JT and always has been and has shown he can even be a solid number 2 option something JT can't hes averagin 12.5 and 6.5boards and shooting 52% in a winning team and has been good everywhere hes been.
Louis Scola is still better than JT hes got a actually top notch post game and can do more things for you
Young is avg 15 and 7 so yeah hes better as well 1 rebound less than JT
the rest I can give you
JT is a pro and once that always comes to play. He would be a perfect 3rd big on any team. Not everyone can or needs to be a star. He is a true definition of a very good role player, hence a keeper for us. Very dependable, hard working, high character type of guy. Can never have too many of those around.
Jim Capers once called a foul on me while I was sitting on the bench. Tweet! "Foul, number fifty-three! Five-three!" Everybody was confused and looking around for number 53, so I stood up and said, "I'm over here and the only thing I'm fouling is the water bottle." - Darryl Dawkins
Well, you've got various guys overrated, about 1/3 of your list is playing center, and various others are kind of 1 hit wonders.
If you want to argue that may be 30 NBA bigs, as in PFs and Cs clearly better than JT, I won't argue that point. Given that there are 60 starting frontcourt slots around the NBA that's not terrible.
Here are the stats for 6 randomly selected "guys" from around the NBA. Not stars, no scrubs. These are their teams's #2 or #3 type bigs, just like Jason:
Ilyasova 22.9min 8.7pts (.394 .345 .750) 5.5reb 1.5ast 0.7stl 0.3blk 0.7TO
CLandry 25.4min 12.8pts (.539 .000 .818) 6.5reb 0.9ast 0.3stl 0.6blk 1.7TO
J.Maxiel 26.5min 8.0pts (.453 .000 .663) 6.0reb 0.5ast 0.5stl 1.5blk 1.2TO
BMullens 31.0min 11.6pts (.371 .303 .709) 7.8reb 1.5ast 0.9stl 0.9blk 1.6TO
L.Scola 25.8min 11.7pts (.468 .125. 817) 6.2reb 2.0ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 1.3TO
JThomp 29.8min 11.1pts (.506 .000 .712) 7.9reb 1.3ast 0.6stl 1.0blk 1.3TO
There's no particular advantage in there. They are all just guys and none of them are better than the other for all situations (although I personally would take my fullsized 6'11" 50% shooting PF/C over stubby twerps or sub 40% perimeter shooting weenies). Jason might be the most all around solid of the bunch though. Efficient, not short, best rebounder etc. He's a solid guy. Other teams wish they had more of him. So do we.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities." --Albert Einstein
"Petrie signings are more akin to the splash you get when you accidentally drop your toothbrush in the toilet. " -- swisshh
JT as Centre? He can't even defend his own position let alone centre hes to soft on defense always has been. Landry is easily better player, Scola is easily better I'll give you Mullens and Illyasova has been horrible this year and I'd say hes equal with Maxiell
Lol other than Al Jefferson (was a PF in Boston) and Tim Duncan (been PF 99% of his career) there is no one else that you could say is a centreWell, you've got various guys overrated, about 1/3 of your list is playing center, and various others are kind of 1 hit wonders.
Except for guys who actually have been startig at center most fo their careers like Nene, Varejao, Bargnani etc.. So has Amare for that matter, althoguh I always considered him a PF who was just D'Antoni'd.
And again, you are amusing in your grass is greenerism. Scola is in rapid decline. Better offensively, but couldn't guard me at this stage. Landry is the same deal. All offense. Need a bucket? Sure. Need a solid guy? Not so much. Normal story, the other team's grass is always greener. A fandom universal, no matter which fanbase we are talking.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities." --Albert Einstein
"Petrie signings are more akin to the splash you get when you accidentally drop your toothbrush in the toilet. " -- swisshh
So Nene was not a PF for like 7+ years of his career while Marcus Camby was playing centre in Denver?
So Anderson Varaejo was not PF playing like 5+ years next to Shaq/Big Z/Ben Wallace who were playing centre?
Bargs has always been a PF in the same mold as Dirk.
Amare played C cause of Mike Dantoni but in NY hes a PF next to Chandler
Yeah i agree Scola can't D but nethier can JT who has he stopped this season no one hes soft on D, Landry what he lacks in size more than makes up for in toughness. I'd take Scola and Landry and pretty much anyone I said before right now over JT, JT is a solid garbage man and a below average defender and can't create his own shot that well.
landry is a solid player but his lack of height shows up against full sized players like aldridge, gasol. they simply shoot over him because he can't really do much.
i see thomas robinson heading down the same role as landry. undersized with athleticism
Kings FUTUREEvans 13 - JT 34 - Cousins 15"This league has a habit, and I am just going to say habit, of producing some pretty incredible story lines," Kahn said. "Last year it was Abe Pollin's widow and this year it was a 14-year-old boy and the only thing we have in common is we have both been bar mitzvahed. We were done. I told Kevin: 'We're toast.' This is not happening for us and I was right." David Kahn
Alridge and Gasol pretty much shoot over everyone including JT so if you have two guys who can't defend you want the better offensive guy who can space the floor better yeah?
Please Landry while he is athletic is as tough and crafty as it gets around the buckets, Thomas Robinson atm is just athletic. Landry does not play on athletic ability its his shooting, toughness and smarts.
The problem with so many of the TRob as this undersized big or that undersized big comparisons is this: he's not showing he's a high skill player. You can be big and low skill. You can be little and high skill (Milsap, Landry etc.). Being little and low skill is a hard spot to be in.
Last edited by Bricklayer; 12-27-2012 at 09:32 PM.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities." --Albert Einstein
"Petrie signings are more akin to the splash you get when you accidentally drop your toothbrush in the toilet. " -- swisshh
Don't be obtuse: Jefferson, Nenê, Sanders and Varejao are all centers. None of them belong on a list of "who is a better PF than Jason Thompson."
Furthermore than that, even if I were to concede that Jefferson was a PF (which I do not, because that would be asinine: Jefferson has played more than 2/3 of his NBA career at Center), he and Millsap both start for the same team. Which means that one of them can't be the PF. Same with Aldridge/Hickson, and Smith/Horford. It would be one thing if one was backing up the other (I'm willing to give you Favors, for example), but if two guys are both starting for the same team, then one of them is not the power forward: you don't get to claim that both of them are better power forwards than Thompson. Pick one, and the other one goes off the list.
In no known universe is Andrea Bargnani a better PF than Jason Thompson. Anyone who says otherwise shows that they have a "punkte uber alles" mentality, because PPG is the only advantage Bargnani has over Thompson: Thompson shoots a significantly higher FG%, is a better rebounder by an order of magnitude; he is a better defender, with a slightly better DRtg, and a significantly better DWS. And if Bargnani didn't spend the first four years of his career playing alongside an All-Star, his numbers wouldn't even look as good as they do look. And they look bad. Really bad: he's a legit seven-footer, who has a lower FG% than Cousins. Marinate on that, for a minute. And frankly, the notion that you would put Boozer in your "debateable" category, for his defense, but not count it against Bargnani is insane on the face of it.
Speaking of your "debateable" category... no, actually, I'll get back to that, in a minute...
Luis Scola was easily better than Thompson, for most of his career. He's not any more. He's averaging career lows, pretty much across the board, even after you factor in his reduced minutes. And he's thirty-two. Based on his production right now, you can't credibly state that Scola is easily better than Thompson, and there's nothing real which suggests that Scola's ever going to be able to get back to what he was.
Now, back to your "debateable" list, let's start with Kevin Seraphin, because I have a lot to say about him: you stated that Seraphin was better based on your belief that he is "more talented, skilled better mid range game and a better athlete." Well, I don't know how you quantify "better athlete," but I don't see how that makes one a better player, either way. Better skilled? Well, that would suggest that Seraphin is, at the very least, either better at 1) creating his own shot, or 2) creating shots for his teammates. But, 82games shows us that this is, rather demonstrably, not true: we know that Seraphin is not better at creating his own shot, because a higher percentage of his baskets (63% for Seraphin, vs. 60% for Thompson) come off of someone else's creation than Thompson. And we know that he's not better at creating shots for his teammates, because all of the passing stats favor Thompson: Assist-to-Bad Pass Turnover [not to be confused with assist-to-total turnovers] Ratio: (4.9 vs. 1.5), passing rating (3.2 vs. -.1[!!!]), and assists per 48 (2.3 vs. 1.9). Does he have a better mid-range game? Again, the numbers don't bear that out: 82games shows us that Thompson has a higher eFG% from mid-range (.397 vs. .352), and that he has a lower percentage of assisted FG from mid-range (69% vs 80%). Which indicates that, not only is Thompson better at shooting the mid-range jumper, he's better at getting his own shot from mid-range.
There is a significant problem with your "double-double" man, Drew Gooden: namely that he is not, in fact, a double-double man. Not only does Drew Gooden not average a double-double for his career, he has never averaged a double-double at any point in his career. Never. Not even once. Not even if you round up. Drew Gooden has played in twice as many games, and had twice as many starts, and yet, has managed, for his career, to put up virtually identical numbers to Jason Thompson, on a significantly lower percentage (11.9ppg, 7.7rpg, 1.2apg, 0.7spg, 0.7bpg, on .466 shooting, in 27.3min, vs. 10.5ppg, 7.3rpg, 1.3apg, 0.5spg, 0.8bpg, on .499 shooting, in 27.5min).
Jason Maxiell? Marreese Speights? Seriously? It's like you went through, and made a list of all the guys who averaged more points, and then went through and made a list of all the guys who had more highlight videos on NBA.com, and decided that they were all better. Where did you come up with this nonsense?
Grass is always greener, indeed...
KingsFans.com Terrorism Threat Level: EXCITED
Nene is a PF I watched him in Denver for year he played PF next to Marcus Camby, Horford is also a PF hes just forced to play Centre because Zaza sucks, when Zaza starts or both he and Horford are on the floor Horford is the PF, Horford was PF in college next to Noah playing the centre. Anderson has been a PF his whole career until Lebron left and Tristan Thompson defends other teams centres not Anderson. Hickson is a PF who's forced to play Centre on Portland so hes still a PF. Jefferson you can have as Centre.
Scola is still better and by a decent margin, his offence is a mile ahead while his defense is a couple metres behind JT, clearly you have never watch Mo Speights play the guy is a gun off the bench there is easily over 30 PF's in the NBA that are better tha JT. Jason Maxiell actually provides defense and toughness something JT will and has never which you want out of your PF.
Drew Goodens you can have I guess and I still think Andrea when fully healthy is a far better player than JT.
Last edited by andremiller07; 12-27-2012 at 10:28 PM.
Not when you factor in games played: Nenê has played 287 out of his 580 career games at center. That's almost exactly half and, since he's pretty much only playing center from this point forward, he will have played the majority of his career at center. He's a center.
Wallace, sure. Shaq, no. Ilgauskas, no. In the 5+ years that Varejao and Ilgauskas played together, they started in the same frontcourt exactly seven times. The rest of the time, either Varejao was backing Z up, or Varejao was starting because Z was injured.
Varejao and Shaq also only started together in seven games. I'll give you Big Ben: he started more than double as many games alongside Wallace, as he did alongside Shaq and Z combined. Still, Varejao has played 411 out of 489 games as a center. He's a center.
KingsFans.com Terrorism Threat Level: EXCITED
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks