Rebounding - Total FAIL

[Kingster]

If I were to tell you last year that the Kings would add to their roster the #1 rebounder in the NCAA (by nearly a nearly 50 rebound margin), that Hayes would be in much better shape than last year, that Thompson would have the best year he's had in the pro's, that Tyreke would be moved to the 2-guard (replacing him with a bigger player at the 3), that Cousins would be in his 3rd year, and that the Kings last year were 10th in rebounding, what where would you guess the Kings would rank in rebounding this year?

TWENTIETH. You want to talk about fail. I can't come up with a better stat to reflect it. There is no way this team should be 20th in the league in rebounding, and yet that's where they are, per ESPN stats.

Last year: they collected 42.9 rebs/game; they allowed their opposition 45.0 rebs (
-2.1 differential)

This year: they've collected 41.4 rebs/game; they allow 44.1 rebs/game to the opposition (-2.7 differential).

Rebounding is the stat that best reflects effort. So where is the effort?

[Spike]

I'm not going to refute your point on effort, because, to some extent, it's valid, but it's not the entire picture.

My guess is that I think that none of those players are getting the minutes that their counterparts on other teams are receiving, and Smart tends to go small too often. Would a lineup of Evans/Salmons/Robinson/Thompson/Cousins rebound the hell out of the other team? Yeah, it would, but it also creates other problems.

[spudfan]

When you let the other team shoot 1 billion percent it is harder to get rebounds

[Section 101]

You didn't go deep enough. It needs to be broken down into offensive and defensive rebounding.

Last year 13.4 off, 29.5 def., Opponents 12.3 off, 32.6 def
This year 11.9 off, 29.5 def, opponents 12 off, 32.1 def.


So it's our off rebounding is down. I would attribute that to all the jump shots and defenses sagging in the paint. Cuz is down 1 off rebound a game. JT is the same as last year. Our shooting % is up 42.9 to 43.6.

[kupman]

I am hard pressed to find one aspect of the game that has not been a total fail thus far this season.

[Kingster]

You didn't go deep enough. It needs to be broken down into offensive and defensive rebounding.

Last year 13.4 off, 29.5 def., Opponents 12.3 off, 32.6 def
This year 11.9 off, 29.5 def, opponents 12 off, 32.1 def.


So it's our off rebounding is down. I would attribute that to all the jump shots and defenses sagging in the paint. Cuz is down 1 off rebound a game. JT is the same as last year. Our shooting % is up 42.9 to 43.6.

I understand the point you make on offensive rebounds, but if you add to the Kings' roster the #1 rebounder in the NCAA (by nearly a nearly 50 rebound margin), a more in shape Hayes, and a bigger 3 (with Tyreke moved to the 2), you should have much better defensive rebounding than last year, imo. Staying the same as last year is going backwards.

[Section 101]

I understand the point you make on offensive rebounds, but if you add to the Kings' roster the #1 rebounder in the NCAA (by nearly a nearly 50 rebound margin), a more in shape Hayes, and a bigger 3 (with Tyreke moved to the 2), you should have much better defensive rebounding than last year, imo. Staying the same as last year is going backwards.

You can't judge rebounding by size. Our PG and SF are the weaker links this year in rebounds. Our bigs are still the same. It's not like TRob is getting a lot of mins to make a huge rebounding difference.

[LWP777]

We can talk about the numbers all we want but it really doesn't matter! This team has not excelled in any area on the basketball floor this year! Think about it....we can't shoot, we don't rebound well, we don't defend well, we don't pass well, we are poorly coached. What do we do well?? Name one thing....

[VF21]

I am hard pressed to find one aspect of the game that has not been a total fail thus far this season.

Slamson is one of the best mascots in the league and the current crop of Dance Team members isn't bad.

[Padrino]

We can talk about the numbers all we want but it really doesn't matter! This team has not excelled in any area on the basketball floor this year! Think about it....we can't shoot, we don't rebound well, we don't defend well, we don't pass well, we are poorly coached. What do we do well?? Name one thing....

easy. the kings average 44.8 points in the paint per game. that's good for fifth in the nba overall, despite our misses at the rim...

[LWP777]

easy. the kings average 44.8 points in the paint per game. that's good for fifth in the nba overall, despite our misses at the rim...

Thank you! That made my day!

[bajaden]

I don't think you can use a wide brush when it comes to rebounding. Yes, were down, but where does the blame lay. For starters, lets take a look at some of the top rebounders in the NBA, and how often they pull down a rebound, and then compare.

Zack Randolph: 12.7 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 2.8 minutes he's on the floor
Dwight Howard: 12.2 Rebounds a game, and one rebound every 2.9 minutes he's on the floor
David Lee: 11.4 Rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.2 minutes he's on the floor
Blake Griffin: 8.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.6 minutes he's on the floor (he's not having as good a rebounding year this year)

So now lets compare our bigs:

Cousins: 9.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.0 minutes he's on the floor
Thompson: 7.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.8 minutes he's on the floor
Hayes: 4.5 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 4.2 minutes he's on the floor (not bad for a 6'6" center)
Robinson: 4.3 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.7 minutes he's on the floor (almost the same rate as Griffin)

I'd say that when you take our bigs group as a whole, they compare well to most of the teams in the NBA, and Cousins isn't even performing up to his usual standards yet. Out problem is the rest of the team. Tyreke is the only other player on the team that is rebounding well. Tyreke is averaging 4.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 6.3 minutes he's in the game, and thats a good figure for the SG position. By comparison, Thornton, also a SG is averaging 2.8 rebounds a game and one for every 9.4 minutes he's in the game. Johnson has been downright terrible for a guy that played PF in college and is susposed to be a tough guy. He averages one rebound for every 7.2 minutes he's in the game. John Salmons, a susposed SF is averaging one rebound for every 9.8 minutes he's on the court. Which is terrible!

So our frontcourt, while not perfect, is not the problem, its our backcourt. Were we to substitute T. Robb for Salmons at SF at times to get him more time on the floor, our rebounding would improve. He's only playing 16 minutes a game, and his rebounding per minute is fine, its the lack of minutes thats holding down this total numbers

[Bricklayer]

I don't think you can use a wide brush when it comes to rebounding. Yes, were down, but where does the blame lay. For starters, lets take a look at some of the top rebounders in the NBA, and how often they pull down a rebound, and then compare.

Zack Randolph: 12.7 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 2.8 minutes he's on the floor
Dwight Howard: 12.2 Rebounds a game, and one rebound every 2.9 minutes he's on the floor
David Lee: 11.4 Rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.2 minutes he's on the floor
Blake Griffin: 8.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.6 minutes he's on the floor (he's not having as good a rebounding year this year)

So now lets compare our bigs:

Cousins: 9.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.0 minutes he's on the floor
Thompson: 7.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.8 minutes he's on the floor
Hayes: 4.5 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 4.2 minutes he's on the floor (not bad for a 6'6" center)
Robinson: 4.3 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 3.7 minutes he's on the floor (almost the same rate as Griffin)

I'd say that when you take our bigs group as a whole, they compare well to most of the teams in the NBA, and Cousins isn't even performing up to his usual standards yet. Out problem is the rest of the team. Tyreke is the only other player on the team that is rebounding well. Tyreke is averaging 4.8 rebounds a game, and one rebound every 6.3 minutes he's in the game, and thats a good figure for the SG position. By comparison, Thornton, also a SG is averaging 2.8 rebounds a game and one for every 9.4 minutes he's in the game. Johnson has been downright terrible for a guy that played PF in college and is susposed to be a tough guy. He averages one rebound for every 7.2 minutes he's in the game. John Salmons, a susposed SF is averaging one rebound for every 9.8 minutes he's on the court. Which is terrible!

So our frontcourt, while not perfect, is not the problem, its our backcourt. Were we to substitute T. Robb for Salmons at SF at times to get him more time on the floor, our rebounding would improve. He's only playing 16 minutes a game, and his rebounding per minute is fine, its the lack of minutes thats holding down this total numbers

I had a half completed Reboudning thread queued up aroudn ehre focuing on this point and looking at rebounding rates of our personnel, and that was going ot be one of my points:

1) our frontcourt rebounding has been disappointing. Not terrible. but disappointing. it should have been excellent, ro at least we were hoping it would be absed on Cousins last year, and Hayes and JT over their careers. But all three of those players are down off their normal numbers, and TRob's rebounding has not translated the way you would have hoped. Result: frontcourt rebounding is not dominating, and on our team it HAS to be dominatin because...

2) for several years now we have collected the worst rebounding group of "smalls" in the game. james Johnson was supposed to help that, but he turned out so wild we can hardly play him, and his rebounding is way off as well. So many of our guys operating below normal levels. And once you get past Johnson, Reke is the only one of our little players who is a strong rebounder, and we lsot some of the big edge we had with him when he moved from PG, where he was top 2 or 3, to SG, where the gap is narrower. meanwhile Salmons, Cisco and Outlaw are all absolutely terrible rebounders as SFs (and Outlaw's occcasioanl PF usage is ridiculous). And our PG platoon is tiny. IT helped a bit there last year with more rebs than you would expect a 5'9" guy to get, but this year he's where you would expect him to be, and the other guys are too. You get in a situation where if you are not playing Johnson, 6 of your other 8 littles are bad rebounders, Thornton is average only when he's feeling good about things, which he hasn't been, and then there's Reke. Means your frontcourt HAS to domiante the glass because there is no support from the other three positions. And ours hasn't the way we hoped.