So you define a star as one of the top 5-10 players in the league and probable hall of famers (with the exception of griffin)? Which means most of the teams in the league have none, correct?Originally Posted by LWP777
So you define a star as one of the top 5-10 players in the league and probable hall of famers (with the exception of griffin)? Which means most of the teams in the league have none, correct?
Yeah, I do. What is your definition of a star? Zach Randolph and Rudy Gay? If that's the case then we still don't have stars because DMC and Reke aren't as good as them. Bricklayer and other respected posters keep talking about how DMC and Reke have superstar potential and they will win us or another team championships. They are decent players but I just don't see them in the "star" category.
I answered your question. You can clearly see that most NBA stars become so at around age 21-23. That's why I'm worried about DMC and Reke not making the cut.
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
Now I can understand where your misguided ranting and raving comes from. You think our guys should be superstars (not stars) at 23 and if they aren't now they are overrated and should be moved in the right deal. But you've already mentioned there are probably only 5-10 guys that are at that level of talent/performance. Doesn't that suggest we might want to hold on to our young guys as even if they don't reach that ultra-rare superstar level, they are still probably better than a huge portion of the league when you look at their production relative to their age?
I am not misguided at all. Both DMC and Reke have not proved me wrong as of yet. They both have regressed. I'm having doubts if they can even become as good as Randolph and Gay. I think Tyreke is a great kid so I'm willing to be more patient with him. He's not a disruption to the team. Cousins on the other hand...well, he's a cancer.
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
You know, if you would stop exaggeration, you might be fun to argue with. No one has said any King would lead this team to a championship. Why make up stuff if your argument is solid? Nobody knows what person will be a superstar with 100% accuracy. What I see is two guys who could be superstars with Cousins edging out Tyreke. I said "could." At this point in time, that's all we can know. But as they are the only two on our team who COULD become stars, don't get rid of them. That's all I've ever meant so quit twisting words to make your argument better. If you find a post of mine or whoever else you are referring to that say absolutely that these two guys will become superstars, point them out.
Most people who become superstars don't play for teams that are in chaos. Yes, that's an excuse but it's valid. I don't know why you would "worry" that DMC and Tyreke won't make the cut. You HAVE been a fan of this team from its inception, right? Name the superstars that have been on the Kings since being in Sacramento. I don't know if you count all-stars as stars (I don't think so) but we have had darn few even at this low bar of stardom.
Upwards and onwards.
I apologize if I offended you. It's mostly Bricklayer who talks a lot about "superstars" and winning championships. And a lot of other posters tend to follow his opinion a lot so I probably lumped in people who shouldn't have been included in that opinion. As far as superstars on the Sacramento Kings, I can only think of one. Chris Webber. He may have even been a borderline superstar. We had other "stars" like Mitch Richmond, Vlade, Peja, possibly Mike Bibby. DMC and Reke are nowhere near any of those guys...yet.
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
Top 15 (or so) bigs currently in the league at 22
Pau Gasol: 19 ppg, 8.8rpg, 2.8 apg, .4spg, 1.8bpg
Marc Gasol (not in league)
Al Horford: 12.4 ppg. 10rpg, 2.6apg, .9spg. 1.5bpg
Brook Lopez: 20.8 ppg, 6rpg, 1.6apg, .6spg, 1.5bpg
Kevin Garnett: 19.8ppg, 9.8rpg, 4.1apg, 1.7spg, 1.8bpg
Joakim Noah: 11.5ppg, 9.8rpg, 2apg, 1.6spg, 1.5bpg
Al Jefferson: 17.2ppg, 11.2rpg, 1.4apg, .7spg, 1.6bpg
Tyson Chandler: 10.5ppg, 12.7rpg, 1.1apg, 1.1spg, 2.3bpg
Chris Bosh: 21ppg, 10rpg, 2.4apg, .5spg, 1.2bpg
Blake Griffin: 20.7ppg, 10.9rpg, 3.2apg, .8spg, .7bpg
Kevin Love: 20.4ppg, 15rpg, 2.5apg, .4spg, .5bpg
Lamarcus Aldridge: 18.3ppg, 7.9rpg, 1.7apg, .7spg, 1.3bpg
Tim Duncan: 19.9ppg, 10.5rpg, 2.2apg, .8spg, 2.2bpg
Zach Randoplh: 19ppg, 10rpg, 1.9apg, .8spg, .5bpg
Serge Ibaka: 12ppg, 10rpg. .6apg, .7spg, 4.8bpg
Dwight Howard: 19.8ppg, 13.5rpg, 1.3apg, .9spg, 2.1 bpg
Andrew Bynum: 17.8ppg, 9.9rpg, 1.2apg, .6apg, 1.7bpg
Demarcus Cousins: 19.6ppg, 11,3rpg, 2.6apg, 1.7spg, .7bpg
With the exception of a couple guys on there, he was better than almost every one on that list at the same age, in an absolute cluster f of a situation, with a poor coach, no real pg/system and yes, his mental situation not being quite right. And his numbers last year as a 21 year old crush these guys. At some point you have to realize that we are holding onto one of the top 5 centers at this stage in his career already and that his upside makes his potential even higher.
Last edited by sdballer; 12-30-2012 at 12:14 PM.
So why do you follow this franchise (or most of the franchises in the nba). You basically trash anyone who isn't one of the current top 5-10 guys in the league. Those guys aren't coming here. A team like this tries to find someone that can fall just outside that tier in the draft or a lucky trade and builds around them. We have the two potential foundational pieces. What we lack are the surrounding ones. The last thing you want to do is trade your potential stars for lesser players.
It really is impossible to truly judge cuz until you see him running in a proper structured offense geared toward his strengths.
I agree, which is why I find his current performance so intriguing. He's putting up top 5 center numbers (at his age) with a crappy system around him.
Yep.
I think it's clear he has a problem with losing, great, I'm not as forgiving for his behaviour as others seem to be, and i don't think he's blameless as some do, but that doesn't stop me knowing that in a properly structured offensive system he could could be an incredible weapon.
So it would be silly to be trading someone without giving that a go, barring of course a completely unacceptable breaking of the law or something completely outrageous.
I read Brick carefully and generally agree with him. I don't think he has said DMC would be a superstar. He may have said that DMC could be a superstar and I think that's fair. DMC has moves that no other center has and he has huge problems around the rim. Seems like a good coach could play to his strengths better. He also can pass. I think DMC could become better than Webber. It took a long time for Webber to get to the level of play we saw him having and playing next to Vlade may have had a lot to do with it.
If you put all this into context, this complaining about DMC's shortcomings is aggravating as the Kings have only had one star. Keep perspective. We have had so few things to be proud of why pile loads and loads of dung on a player we could be proud of SOME DAY? I think he is already real, real good.
Last edited by Glenn; 12-30-2012 at 01:00 PM.
Upwards and onwards.
Also to respond to the continued argument that Tyreke has regressed so much since his rookie year, here are the per 36 minute comparisons:
Reke rookie: 19.5ppg, 5.1rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.5spg, .3bpg, 2.9 tpg, 45% floor, 25% 3, 75% ft
Reke now: 17.6ppg, 5.6rpg, 3.8apg, 1.5spg, .5bpg, 2.5tpg, 45% floor, 30% 3, 79% ft
Most of his stats are the same or have improved. His points and assists are down but he has the ball in his hands a lot less. I also think his overall defense is much better.
Huh? I haven't trashed anybody except for DMC. I don't like him as a person. He doesn't treat anybody with respect so why should I give him my respect? I don't think we are a very talented team but you'll be hard pressed to find me bashing any Kings player except for DMC. Am I supposed to live in la-la land and not speak truth just because I am a fan of this team? The fact is we are a mess from top to bottom. No point in beating around the bush about that.
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
The problem with DMC is his efficiency. His .481 TS% with him taking 14 shots a game is detrimental to our offense, not helpful.
DMC needs to raise his efficiency quite a bit before he's even close to being considered an elite player. But as of now, the only real positive he brings is his rebounding ability. He's a weak defender and he's an inefficient player who takes a lot of shots. He's got a lot of holes to fix in his on-court game as well as his off-court issues
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. Right now, Smart wants to run the ball. He wants an uptempo game. That type of game least suits Cousins. His best game would be in a halfcourt game. Which usually requires a shot creator at the PG position. With the old Kings, that fell on Christie for the most part. How well does anyone think Shaq would have played in this current system. I think the last thing Shaq would have wanted, is to be running up and down the court on a regular basis.
Its hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.
Mi amigo, I have pointed out that this team is a mess. I've been critical of Cousins, Tyreke, Thornton, IT, Johnson etc. But I don't point it out every minute of every day. Frankly, your starting to get tiresome, and I wish you would go back to your regualr posts, which I found interesting. We all get it, you don't like Cousins and you want him traded. We get it OK! We don't have to be beat over the head with it. Your not going to change your mind, and neither are we. So can we talk about something else for a while. At least until Cousins strangles a nun or something!
Its hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.
Lol. Okay! The thing is I don't really talk about him much when he's in between his blow ups. It's just that he's been a major story with the Kings the past week. But I do understand your point.
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
Subtle, but important, change.
I appreciate a good math pun - as long as it isn't too graphic.
He's a very good talent with a 100 lb weight around his neck. So how good is he really? If you're 100% certain he can unload the 100 lbs, then you bank on him. If you're only 10% certain, then you probably try to trade him to a team that thinks he has a 51% probability of unloading the 100 lb baggage. I'd really like to know from Petrie after he had some truth serum in him whether he's changed his probability estimate for Cousins from the time he drafted him. He had to have thought that he had at least a 51% chance of making it when he drafted him. I wonder what that probability estimate is now?I read Brick carefully and generally agree with him. I don't think he has said DMC would be a superstar. He may have said that DMC could be a superstar and I think that's fair. DMC has moves that no other center has and he has huge problems around the rim. Seems like a good coach could play to his strengths better. He also can pass. I think DMC could become better than Webber. It took a long time for Webber to get to the level of play we saw him having and playing next to Vlade may have had a lot to do with it.
If you put all this into context, this complaining about DMC's shortcomings is aggravating as the Kings have only had one star. Keep perspective. We have had so few things to be proud of why pile loads and loads of dung on a player we could be proud of SOME DAY? I think he is already real, real good.
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