its long overdue. Tyreke is the best playmaker on this team. not to mention the matchup problem he creates for the opposing PG. i dont care if its Thornton or Salmons or someone we trade for starting at the 2, but Tyreke needs to be the PG on this team. Isaiah or Brooks needs to be the backup, Brooks is just not good enough to play starter minutes. make the change coach it will make this team look MUCH better
I'll endorse this.
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
Imagine how far along he would have been as a PG if they kept him there the whole freaking time!!! This team has no vision whatsoever.
The truth is, we had it right with Evans and Beno. Beno worked well with Evans and Cousins, actually.
We just don't know how to build a team.
Doesn't matter.. if you guys think Tyreke hogging the ball and scoring 30 a game is gonna save us it isn't gonna work. A point guard needs to manage and distribute. Tyreke is a ball hog shooter/scorer. Its tricky, he needs a good coach to utilize effectively. To be effective he has to run things with a big IQ... I don't think it's there. He is a huge value used effectively I do believe tho... kinda off ball shooting guard/ball handler.
He aint AI... but even that didn't work.
He needs a strict system he can work freely in....Originally Posted by D13
He isn't a ball hog and is very willing to give it up however we don't have the off the ball movement or spacing nor do we have the chemistry for him to know where the pass should go out of penetration. So our offense is start with a pick sometimes and then penetrate and from there read the situation and react. This isn't a good offense.
The 2 good games cisco and salmons had cisco pretty much was set in one place on the short three and salmons knew where he was going to be and was able to get him the ball with his feet set and wide open. Move cisco off that spot and he can't hit anything and people don't know where to pass to so they are more likely to cause a turnover. Right now no matter who is on the floor we have individuals playing ball what we need is a group of guys playing as a team and that comes from the coach on down and the players have to buy into it. Reke wants to win and he is more then willing to pass or let someone else take over. He is obviously willing to learn we should have been teaching him.
edit
just using cisco as an example of a role playing shooter.
Lol. So which point guard on our team manages and distributes the ball? You don't exactly score 23 points in a quarter setting guys up you know.
Exactly! Imagine if they had hired Thibideau instead of Westphal.He needs a strict system he can work freely in....
The 2 good games cisco and salmons had cisco pretty much was set in one place on the short three and salmons knew where he was going to be and was able to get him the ball with his feet set and wide open. Move cisco off that spot and he can't hit anything and people don't know where to pass to so they are more likely to cause a turnover. Right now no matter who is on the floor we have individuals playing ball what we need is a group of guys playing as a team and that comes from the coach on down and the players have to buy into it. Reke wants to win and he is more then willing to pass or let someone else take over. He is obviously willing to learn we should have been teaching him.
edit
just using cisco as an example of a role playing shooter.
Dear God no.
How many times do some of you have to watch something fail to realize its not a winning option?
Are you referring to IT and/or Brooks starting at pg?
we need a system for them to operate in. i can't tell what the kings will run on a nightly basis. pop has his set inside out plays. phil had his triangle offense, adelman had the princeton offense. what the heck do the kings run? reke at sf, sg, pg. the fish at 3 or 2, IT or is it AB? is JJ gonna get the starting nod? no stability
Kings FUTUREEvans 13 - JT 34 - Cousins 15"This league has a habit, and I am just going to say habit, of producing some pretty incredible story lines," Kahn said. "Last year it was Abe Pollin's widow and this year it was a 14-year-old boy and the only thing we have in common is we have both been bar mitzvahed. We were done. I told Kevin: 'We're toast.' This is not happening for us and I was right." David Kahn
Here's the thing:
Peeps, I absolutely consider this an option, at all times. I will take Tyreke Evans as my PG 100 times out of a 100 over any of the the minature chuckers we have on our roster. But, BUT, what people don't seem to have noticed is we HAVE had some stability, or rather have tried to, amongst these starters. And they HAVE played well, when they have been out there together. Brooks/Evans/Salmons/JT/Cousins has largely worked. And frankly Reke is playing maybe the best ball of his career with those guys in his current role. Our issues of late have been elsewhere. The bench is complete chaos, as is its use. Cousins keeps getting suspended. Reke missed 5 of 6 games and came off the bench his first game back, etc. But when we've had those 5 guys out there together, its largely worked. It largely worked tonight. Brooks' +/- on the night was a -1. +/- is a notoriously crappy indicator, but in this case it tells you this: I think he only had about 2-3 minutes in the game where he wasn't with the starters. Which means that all the starters together played OKC nearly even. And coming into the game that group (according to 82games.com) had the highest 5-man lineup win% on the team. They play pretty well together. And that means that while this remains a viable option for me, I'm not in a rush to change things up AGAIN so soon. Same mistake we made last year when we swithced AWAY from the Reke/Thornotn backcourt wihtout giving it any time to really work.
Now what I am in favor of, is once Thornotn comes back, scrapoping this idea that we HAAVE ot play mini gunners off the bench just because the idiot GM stuffed the roster with them. Brooks & Evans to start. Thornton comes in for Brooks. Evans and Thornton for a while. etc. Its a viable pairing, but until Reke either falls out of this strong rhythm he's in, or those starters quit clicking, why are we rushing off to break up the only thing that has worked all season (not to mention leave our bench absolutely stuffed with minature chuckrs). I think people have this unreasonable burr about Aaron Brooks. I didn't want him here either. Have been vocal about not being a fan of either he or Salmons. But I am a practicalist -- get it done and I'll adapt for a while. And that lineup has worked pretty well.
Last edited by Bricklayer; 12-14-2012 at 10:45 PM.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities." --Albert Einstein
"Petrie signings are more akin to the splash you get when you accidentally drop your toothbrush in the toilet. " -- swisshh
3 guard rotation???? blasphemy. How dare you sir... No one in their right mind would run a 3 guard rotation....
/sarc
When we signed Brooks we knew this was coming. Too many guards for the playing time just like a few years ago with WP and Landry, ship him out and boom things ran smoother. It also signalled to reke and IT that they didn't have confidence in them at that position and that we wouldn't run a normal sized lineup this year. 3 guard rotation with spot minutes for jimmer would have been my choice.
wow, so wrong.
#1. refer to Agent23's post. imagine his progression as a point guard if he had stayed at the PG instead of getting dicked around
#2. he is hands down the best passer/playmaker on the team.
#3 instead of us being at a disadvantage every night because of our midget/bad defensive PG's (Brooks/Jimmer/IT), with Tyreke at the PG, he can guard any PG in the league, and the other team has to figure out how the hell to guard our 6'6 point guard
Disagree with #2. IT is the best passer when he wants to be. It's just that most of the time he's gunning up shots or forcing very strange "high energy" passes. He's also our best playmaker because the defense doesn't really give a hoot about him and his playmaking - they hardly pressure him at all. Tyreke is far from the bad passer/terrible playmaker/my dog has better court vision than him that some make him out to be, but objectively speaking he is not the best passer on this team, nor do I expect him to be, considering his playing background.
Still, what have any of our other PGs done in terms of setting guys up this season that is so much better than what Tyreke has done over the course of his career?
I agree with Brick though, our starting lineup is fine. The issue is the bench.
I agree as well that our issue is our bench. Well, pretty much the 4-12 players are not very good/talented. And our #3 guy (Thornton) is looking horrible this year too but he's capable of breaking out of that. We're really just not very good!
"Dealing with the Maloofs is like dealing with the North Koreans, except less competent." -- Chris Lehane, Director of Think Big
"Size doesn't make any difference; heart is what makes a difference." -- Jerry Sloan.
Isn't the point guard the guy who typically brings up the ball to set up the offense? If so, you don't want Tyreke in that capacity. He takes way too long to do that simple task. It takes too many secs off the shot clock and inhibits the offense right off the batt.
Tyreke was very effective when he got the ball last night about 16 ft with his back turned from the basket. Then he simply turned and went to the basket with great effectiveness. Not this dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble that is the equivalent of drop, drop, drop of water on your skull. The thing about dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, finished by either the spectacular make, or the spectacular miss at the basket, is that it leaves the other four players standing around. Not what you want from your offense. I firmly believe that with better coaching, we would see all of the dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble go away from Tyreke's game, to be replaced by a highly efficient and effective player that knows where he wants to go and when he wants to go there. We are definitely starting to see more of that, but it is dissapointing that there is any of the dribble, dribble, dribble dribble left in his 4th year.
that is his strength. his dribble drive is almost unstoppable. the defense sucks to the paint when that happens. someone is going to be open. the question is whether that person open can make the shot to keep the defense honest.
Kings FUTUREEvans 13 - JT 34 - Cousins 15"This league has a habit, and I am just going to say habit, of producing some pretty incredible story lines," Kahn said. "Last year it was Abe Pollin's widow and this year it was a 14-year-old boy and the only thing we have in common is we have both been bar mitzvahed. We were done. I told Kevin: 'We're toast.' This is not happening for us and I was right." David Kahn
I think it may be time to try him again as starting PG. he failed at it before after a season long test but, slow learner that he is, maybe he can do it. His "death march" pace at bringing the ball up court, dribbling and holding while looking, looking for a path to the basket was very hard for me and the team to live with. If it would work it would be a big boost for the team.
If he can hit open jumpers he can be a very effective point guard. He has many things that he needs to work on to be a great point guard but he is young. If he can't hit open shots then those things he needs to work on will kill the team.
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