Grades v. Magic 12/7/2012

[Hadlowe]

While not disagreeing with that general prognosis, it hasn't really been the offense moving to Reke and Cousins that has been Marcus's problem -- its been the BENCH offense moving away from him. I think to some degree that we helped Reke by dumping Reke's problems on Marcus, took the few guys willing to curtail their shots and put them in the starting linuep, and turned the bench into a chaotic cluster of little guys all trying to gun up shots off their dribble. Now that doesn't explain all of Marcus's struggles by any means -- even when set up perfectly he is missing. But just as it was for Reke, it is how you neutralize a great scorer -- just never let him get into a rhythm. Hell, that's how you try to defend a great scorer too -- our guys are defending our own man. This is on Geoff -- we have so many guys who think they are the man, that its very hard to get our featured guys the shots and rhythm they need.

I am concerned. I was concerned for Reke because our management is stupid. I am concerend about Marcus because of Marcus himself -- I don't think he will take this sitting down if it goes on too long. He'll be unhappy, and we'll be forced to do something. We need him to have some big games on this upcoming trip, and we need him to have them without our coach interpreting that as a reason to limit Tyreke.

I mentioned this in another thread, but Thornton changed his shot in the offseason to speed up the release. I'm not surprised that he's slumping to start the season, but I fully expect him to improve as he becomes more comfortable with the new release.

[Npliam]

when hes on the floor its usually with 4 incapable offensive players so the Defense only respects him. he needs to be playing in the starting lineup instead of Brooks

Oh brother.

[mac]

To be honest we won this game because Orlando was shooting terribly, and I also think that the refs were doing us a favor. Did you see the kinds of shots they were putting up? Such bad misses allowed us to get out in transition a lot, which is where IT is at his best due to his speed. Once again this game showed that none of our PGs are real passers, and I hope that any of the "omg Isaiah Thomas is friggin gonna average 20 assists and only take 2 shots a game because he's such a pure PG" people have realised this by now.

Ask yourself honestly - which team was getting more good looks through execution in the halfcourt?

Still, a win is a win and I'll take it. Good to see TRob play with more energy.

[andremiller07]

To be honest we won this game because Orlando was shooting terribly, and I also think that the refs were doing us a favor. Did you see the kinds of shots they were putting up? Such bad misses allowed us to get out in transition a lot, which is where IT is at his best due to his speed. Once again this game showed that none of our PGs are real passers, and I hope that any of the "omg Isaiah Thomas is friggin gonna average 20 assists and only take 2 shots a game because he's such a pure PG" people have realised this by now.

Ask yourself honestly - which team was getting more good looks through execution in the halfcourt?

Still, a win is a win and I'll take it. Good to see TRob play with more energy.

I agree they are a far better half court team and actually passed poorly for once and yeah JJ Redick missed stuff he normally hits in his sleep, but I just think even without Tyreke we are a more talented team than them and we won based off talent and hustle which is not a bad sign. I think with Tyreke there that would have been a 10+ point win on top of that Cousins all around game was excellent but he just was not posting enough like he did vs Toronto for my taste.

[King Baller]

To be honest we won this game because Orlando was shooting terribly, and I also think that the refs were doing us a favor. Did you see the kinds of shots they were putting up? Such bad misses allowed us to get out in transition a lot, which is where IT is at his best due to his speed. Once again this game showed that none of our PGs are real passers, and I hope that any of the "omg Isaiah Thomas is friggin gonna average 20 assists and only take 2 shots a game because he's such a pure PG" people have realised this by now.

Ask yourself honestly - which team was getting more good looks through execution in the halfcourt?

Still, a win is a win and I'll take it. Good to see TRob play with more energy.

Myself says THE KINGS! At least in the first half Then the Kings played ugly ball in the second half and won this game with Grit and defensive intensity.

Hayes battled Big Baby, these guys will be sore today!
TRob was flying all over and he left it ALL on the floor. Best game of the season for TRob and he gets the game ball while scoring ONE point
MT just hustled and did everything asked of him. MT was hardnosed and tough defending Affalo.
IT being aggressive and drawing all those fouls iced the game. He also played nice defense on Nelson.
Jimmer chased around Redick through many screens. Redick scored 6 on 2 for 10 shooting. Jimmer has that little floater falling.

One positive is that the Starters will be fresh tonight! Maybe Smart is crazy like a fox

KB

[Padrino]

While not disagreeing with that general prognosis, it hasn't really been the offense moving to Reke and Cousins that has been Marcus's problem -- its been the BENCH offense moving away from him. I think to some degree that we helped Reke by dumping Reke's problems on Marcus, took the few guys willing to curtail their shots and put them in the starting linuep, and turned the bench into a chaotic cluster of little guys all trying to gun up shots off their dribble. Now that doesn't explain all of Marcus's struggles by any means -- even when set up perfectly he is missing. But just as it was for Reke, it is how you neutralize a great scorer -- just never let him get into a rhythm. Hell, that's how you try to defend a great scorer too -- our guys are defending our own man. This is on Geoff -- we have so many guys who think they are the man, that its very hard to get our featured guys the shots and rhythm they need.

I am concerned. I was concerned for Reke because our management is stupid. I am concerend about Marcus because of Marcus himself -- I don't think he will take this sitting down if it goes on too long. He'll be unhappy, and we'll be forced to do something. We need him to have some big games on this upcoming trip, and we need him to have them without our coach interpreting that as a reason to limit Tyreke.

indeed. i don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but apparently bobby jackson agrees, as well:

http://www.bleedblackandpurple.com/2...ade-could.html

[ppine]

I agree with Reke Havoc about Walton. Sure he talks a lot. I am a Deadhead so I get all the stuff that goes past a lot of people. But he sure knows bball. Praising Thomas and Robinson. Calling out Hayes for sleep walking, bad transition defense, the lack of joy, etc.

The main problem that Walton has with the Kings' is their lack of effort and determination. Playing in the NBA is hard work if it is done right. The several days rest helps. Players have to develop the mentality to play hard every night, especially if they only get limited minutes.

[pshn80]

I wasn't able to watch the game tonight but I just checked out the boxscore. What is going on with Marcus Thornton? He used to be our most consistent guy.

One thought occurs to me. When the ball is moving well and we are scoring OK you don't see Thorntob scoring a lot. He seems to come on more frequently when we are NOT doing well. He is primarily a one-on-one scorer.

[pshn80]

Brooks )))

Our PGs scored 40 I think. Not the day to worry about which one goes. If we took a vote right now the results would be 47/47/47.

[Kingster]

I'll give up a Christmas gift under the tree if Cousins can have one more game were he plays within himself like he has the last two games. Just keep it up, Cuz. You may form a habit.

I think this game was Cousins' very best at starting a fast break. Great outlet passes. Didn't take a lot of time to get the ball up the floor. He mostly stopped his old bad habit of putting the ball down on the floor for a couple of dribbles before he gave up the ball. And IT was great pushing the pace, running the ball, getting easy shots. For the most part, that's what this team needs to do to win - run the ball. Otherwise, it's just asking too much of them at their early stage of development. And they looked a lot happier when they were running the ball, which is not insignificant. They probably don't like pulling teeth, just like we don't like seeing it.

[Bricklayer]

probably don't like pulling teeth, just like we don't like seeing it.

And little kids would rather be outside playing than inside hitting the books. Nonetheless fun or not, if you don't get disicplined and do the work you'll grow up to be mowing the lawns of the guys who stayed inside and worked.

[bajaden]

Well paired out there with Jimmer/Brooks/IT he is not going to look his best. One of these guys needs to get moved, Which one? Errr Ummm hmmm your call boss.

Thornton had his looks and his shots, he just missed! Its that simple. Don't blame others for his bad shooting night. As matter of fact, he's several bad shooting nights recently. He's a streak shooter. He's great when he's hot, but not when the shots aren't dropping. Lets not forget that the rest of the league knows what he's out there for, so they're going to make him the focus of their attention. Thornton is capable of creating his own shot, but Kobe he's not!

[bajaden]

And little kids would rather be outside playing than inside hitting the books. Nonetheless fun or not, if you don't get disicplined and do the work you'll grow up to be mowing the lawns of the guys who stayed inside and worked.

Be careful or I'll unleash the lawnmowers union on you!

[upinsmoke]

Thornton had his looks and his shots, he just missed! Its that simple. Don't blame others for bad shooting night. As matter of fact, he's several bad shooting nights recently. He's a streak shooter. He's great when he's hot, but not when the shots aren't dropping. Lets not forget that the rest of the league knows what he's out there for, so they're going to make him the focus of their attention. Thornton is capable of creating his own shot, but Kobe he's not!

Calm it down baja nobody is blaming his recent poor shooting on anyone but himself. Im simply pointing out a three gunner guard rotation is not the best way of utilizing him. MT either needs to start or be traded because jimmer and MT on the same roster does not make sense to me.

[ESP47]

While not disagreeing with that general prognosis, it hasn't really been the offense moving to Reke and Cousins that has been Marcus's problem -- its been the BENCH offense moving away from him. I think to some degree that we helped Reke by dumping Reke's problems on Marcus, took the few guys willing to curtail their shots and put them in the starting linuep, and turned the bench into a chaotic cluster of little guys all trying to gun up shots off their dribble. Now that doesn't explain all of Marcus's struggles by any means -- even when set up perfectly he is missing. But just as it was for Reke, it is how you neutralize a great scorer -- just never let him get into a rhythm. Hell, that's how you try to defend a great scorer too -- our guys are defending our own man. This is on Geoff -- we have so many guys who think they are the man, that its very hard to get our featured guys the shots and rhythm they need.

I am concerned. I was concerned for Reke because our management is stupid. I am concerend about Marcus because of Marcus himself -- I don't think he will take this sitting down if it goes on too long. He'll be unhappy, and we'll be forced to do something. We need him to have some big games on this upcoming trip, and we need him to have them without our coach interpreting that as a reason to limit Tyreke.

Half the time, Thornton is out there with Hayes, Robinson, Johnson and either IT or Jimmer. Hardly a lineup full of chuckers. Thornton just sucks right now. He can't shoot and he isn't getting easy points either. He's still as clutch as ever though.

What happened to the Thornton we traded for? That half year, he scored over 20 ppg efficiently, rebounded and had 3 assists a game. Ever since then he hasn't been the same player.

[Glenn]

Be patient. I wasted a half hour writing a note about this very issue.

[Bricklayer]

Half the time, Thornton is out there with Hayes, Robinson, Johnson and either IT or Jimmer. Hardly a lineup full of chuckers.

I think what you're missing there is that IS a lineup full of chuckers, or at least overdribblers, stickyfingered guys, out of control young players. basically every one of those guys except Hayes is very used to, and thinks, that he has dribbling/scoring rights, and at any time can decide to charge in lookign for his shot. Now, that doesn't make them any differnet from Marcus except that Marcus has proven far more than those four guys, but it does make it very hard to run an organized offense where TRob knows he's jsut a roleplayer and should pass first, think later, JJ knows he's a roleplayer who should pass first and think later, IT/Jimmer know that their first job is to set up Marcus, and only look for their offense if that's not there etc. TRob/Jimmer/IT all had the absolutel green light wihtin the last two years in college. JJ is just dumb that way. And all have been encouraged by Smart to be dumb.

[mac]

I think what you're missing there is that IS a lineup full of chuckers, or at least overdribblers, stickyfingered guys, out of control young players. basically every one of those guys except Hayes is very used to, and thinks, that he has dribbling/scoring rights, and at any time can decide to charge in lookign for his shot. Now, that doesn't make them any differnet from Marcus except that Marcus has proven far more than those four guys, but it does make it very hard to run an organized offense where TRob knows he's jsut a roleplayer and should pass first, think later, JJ knows he's a roleplayer who should pass first and think later, IT/Jimmer know that their first job is to set up Marcus, and only look for their offense if that's not there etc. TRob/Jimmer/IT all had the absolutel green light wihtin the last two years in college. JJ is just dumb that way. And all have been encouraged by Smart to be dumb.

The funny thing is Redick is probably a better scorer than half the guys he was playing with, but he still looked to set them up for easy open shots far more than getting his own. I mean Andrew Nicholson, seriously?

[mac]

I'll give up a Christmas gift under the tree if Cousins can have one more game were he plays within himself like he has the last two games. Just keep it up, Cuz. You may form a habit.

I think this game was Cousins' very best at starting a fast break. Great outlet passes. Didn't take a lot of time to get the ball up the floor. He mostly stopped his old bad habit of putting the ball down on the floor for a couple of dribbles before he gave up the ball. And IT was great pushing the pace, running the ball, getting easy shots. For the most part, that's what this team needs to do to win - run the ball. Otherwise, it's just asking too much of them at their early stage of development. And they looked a lot happier when they were running the ball, which is not insignificant. They probably don't like pulling teeth, just like we don't like seeing it.

Problem is you're not going to get to run against good teams. It just doesn't work that way - countless years of playoffs have proved that. The only reason why we got to run is because of all of Orlando's turnovers and missed shots, a lot of times their guys just driving into traffic and not getting a foul called while we got the ball and ran the other way. But hey, you're clearly all for winning now and screwing the future, so lets go with that.

Early stage of development?? IT played how many years in college? Jimmer? Evans and Cousins have been in the league for how long? Brooks/Hayes? Salmons? But they're too young to run a halfcourt offense ROFLMAO. That's the kind of thinking that will keep us out of the playoffs until Cousins is a 10 year vet. Or maybe he'd still be too young then.

I was watching the Hornets Grizzlies game, and the announcers said something that made sense for once. They were talking about how the league is really turning into a development league because a lot of the players are drafted after only one year in college. They emphasized the need for coaching and teaching to turn these young talented players into good team basketball players. Coaching and teaching, something our team clearly lacks.

[mac]

I agree they are a far better half court team and actually passed poorly for once and yeah JJ Redick missed stuff he normally hits in his sleep, but I just think even without Tyreke we are a more talented team than them and we won based off talent and hustle which is not a bad sign. I think with Tyreke there that would have been a 10+ point win on top of that Cousins all around game was excellent but he just was not posting enough like he did vs Toronto for my taste.

This I agree with. We won by sheer talent and also being fortunate that they weren't hitting their open shots.