Terrible Players, Or Terrible Use of our Players?

[Kingsfan23]

As a rule, I don't like the use of a player excuse to absolve a player of underachieving play. Good players produce regardless. Perfect, point case in point is Tyreke. Folks would politic over what position he should be playing, should he have the ball etc, instead of just admitting and holding him personally responsible for being a letdown from what we expected of him and that if he were truly all-star calibure he would own his position regardless. Now people are saying how much Cousins would be thriving under a different system as a means of excusing his poor play

Bottom line, strategy is part of the game, and we can certainly discusss ad nauseam how our subpar coaches have inadequately used these players, but to use that as the focal point of players ineptitude only serves to absolve the players of responsibility

[lwc]

I still say keep Garcia, if he'll come back for the minimum, or something close to it: not just because he's the longest-tenured King (tied with Causewell for 7th-most games in a Kings uniform, in the Sacramento era), but also because he's a good locker room guy, and guys who can be banished to the end of the bench and not cause problems in the locker room are underrated. Especially on a losing team: sure, you can find guys happy to wave a towel when the team is winning, not so easy to do it when you've got a 25-win team.

Good point. He is making great money right now to be the 10th man. If he will continue his attitude for a much reduced salary, I say keep him.

[Uncia03]

The primary reason I wasn't feeling optimistic about this upcoming season was Coach Smart.
I just felt that with him at the helm, regardless of our talent roster, he'd manage to guide this team into the cellar, then get fired during the season, and force us to take another interim head coach.

I was one of the poor souls with the Kingsfans group down in LA for the Clipper game. I can say with-out question, that the game we witnessed is a firable offense.

It was absolutely clear that the players are not playing hard for him right now. They are no longer buying what he's selling, and the play on the court demonstrates that.

I just want him gone.

It's true that the Maloofs will probably end up picking up a low-income coach, but who knows, at least there is the possibility that a new coach could come in and bring success. I have no doubt in my mind that we will not have success under Smart.

So on to the actual question posed in this thread.

At this point in time, it's mostly on the coach. It's all well in good to say that players have personal responsibilities to play hard and take their game to the next level. But the reality is, if you're putting out 100% game after game, and you see your team lose time and time again because of the coach's rotations and lack of half-court offense game-planning, then you're going to eventually stop giving 100%.

It would be akin to having a normal job, and putting everything you have into doing it right, then seeing the person responsible for taking your work, just muck things up to end up with a mediocre product. Eventually, you're not going to give them flawless production just to see it trashed.

I think this can be clearly seen on the defensive end. Let's be honest with ourselves. The defensive intensity we saw at the beginning of the season is completely gone.
And the reason it's gone, is because all of that hard work ended up just being another loss. It's not as if the players forgot how to play defense. It's simply that trying that hard was pointless because the problems with the offense, roles, rotation was simply to great to overcome to get consistent victories.

So right now we're at a place where we no longer care to give the defensive effort needed to win games and we still lack an offensive system, proper roles, and proper rotations to help us win games.

We have no shot at having success this year as long as the coach and players continue on as we've seen.

We've got talent. We just need a coach who can come in and define roles, implement an offensive scheme which utilizes our talent, and demand accountability out of our players. I'd prefer a veteran coach who has had success, but at this point, I'd take just about anyone.

[TyFreak Evans]

While in the car yesterday, I happened to switch the radio to 1140 AM, just because I was not interested in the stuff they were airing on 1530 (the programming was non-news related, btw), and I was not interested in listening to FM radio stations who think it is necessary to infest our ears with crappy music from the likes of Taylor Swift, Kesha, and Katy Perry pretty much during every hour of the day.

Not really to my surprise, The Grant Napear Show was on, and he was taking calls. One of the callers asked what his opinion was on the problem with this team. I agree with what Grant had to say. He believes that it's not so much the coaching as it is the group of players that we have. While he agreed that the talent level is there, he believes, and I agree with him, that the group that we have just don't fit well together. We have too many egos, and we have individuals on our roster who play more one on one basketball than they do team basketball. Did he acknowledge that Keith Smart is part of the problem? Yes, he did not deny that fact. But he also said that he believed that it was unfair to dump Keith Smart this early in the season when the core of the problem, according to him, lies within the players we have on our roster.

I agree 100% with Mr. Napear and believe myself that we do have the talent to win games, but our talent might just not fit well together as a TEAM in order to win those games. We have a lot of individual talents, but none of those individual talents want to make the transition into a team talent, if that makes any sense.

While I agree Keith Smart is not the best coach we could possibly have, I wouldn't label him as the worst. And I sure as heck would not put him at the top of my list as the biggest problem with this team.

[Jose]

...

While I agree Keith Smart is not the best coach we could possibly have, I wouldn't label him as the worst. And I sure as heck would not put him at the top of my list as the biggest problem with this team.

Our biggest problem is NOT the coach. It's NOT the players. It's our management. Our FRONT OFFICE. Starts with the Maloofs, and ends with Petrie.

- Our coaches since Adleman have been awful. Why? The FO is cheap.
- We do have talent, but are a collection of ill-fitting pieces. Why? The FO is cheap - even LAZY. Don't bother to spend or trade to fill our gaps (SF anyone?).
- We don't sign/trade players to look for better fits. We should be able to trade "talent" for better fitting pieces. Again, cheap and lazy.
- We only sign draft picks and other team's discards. When was the last time we were involved in seriously pursuing any player of relevance?

We foster a culture of cheapness, lazyness and mediocrity. Our FO is happy being losers as long as they can pay the bills. Can't expect this to not rub off into the players.

[TyFreak Evans]

Our biggest problem is NOT the coach. It's NOT the players. It's our management. Our FRONT OFFICE. Starts with the Maloofs, and ends with Petrie.

- Our coaches since Adleman have been awful. Why? The FO is cheap.
- We do have talent, but are a collection of ill-fitting pieces. Why? The FO is cheap - even LAZY. Don't bother to spend or trade to fill our gaps (SF anyone?).
- We don't sign/trade players to look for better fits. We should be able to trade "talent" for better fitting pieces. Again, cheap and lazy.
- We only sign draft picks and other team's discards. When was the last time we were involved in seriously pursuing any player of relevance?

We foster a culture of cheapness, lazyness and mediocrity. Our FO is happy being losers as long as they can pay the bills. Can't expect this to not rub off into the players.

I am trying extremely hard to disagree with your assessment. I am going to stop trying.

[jpsls]

If the front office would focus on improving the team instead of finding a way to relocate them, we might have a fighting chance.

[Glenn]

From the beginning I have thought this franchise, as it stands, is doomed because the Maloofs own the team. I agree with Jose and jpsls, therefore.

Uncia03 makes a lot of sense in determining who is at fault, the players or the coach. In some ways that can be determined only by an educated guess. Uncia03 has a more scientific method. Uncia03 states what we all have seen and that is that the defense came out full blast at the beginning of the season yet gradually faded away. That is the reaction of a team of players who are giving up. Now do we need to discuss what is leading to the giving up? It could be a bunch of things as no doubt they are aware of what is happening with the ownership is all the players and staff have a vested interest in where the team plays. Most have purchased homes and some have families here. But most directly, they can point at the coach. These guys are, for the most part, young and unfamiliar with NBA basketball. They need basic teaching and then more advanced stuff like NBA plays.

Smart started off like a high paid social worker by focusing on Cuz and trying create a big family with the whole team. I think that's well and good but his job is to create an NBA team. Winning teams need no special attention such as creating a Smart's vision family if they are winning. It is only a losing team that needs an in house social worker.

Now, people point to Cuz as the guy with the worst attitude. Perhaps he does have the worst attitude but perhaps also, he simply is more expressive in showing his discontent. All these players have been winners and know what it feels like. They can't be happy.

The true test is to have another coach but the Maloofs have stated they are 100% behind Smart. That test may never occur but I think Cuz will explode some day and something will need to happen. Either he is suspended or someone takes a little time and asks him what is aggravating him. In any case, I look for a Boogie explosion soon. It will be a bad thing for his career and that is unfortunate. How this organization reacts will dictate the future for this year and perhaps until we pack their bags and escort them out of town.

[bajaden]

The primary reason I wasn't feeling optimistic about this upcoming season was Coach Smart.
I just felt that with him at the helm, regardless of our talent roster, he'd manage to guide this team into the cellar, then get fired during the season, and force us to take another interim head coach.

I was one of the poor souls with the Kingsfans group down in LA for the Clipper game. I can say with-out question, that the game we witnessed is a firable offense.

It was absolutely clear that the players are not playing hard for him right now. They are no longer buying what he's selling, and the play on the court demonstrates that.

I just want him gone.

It's true that the Maloofs will probably end up picking up a low-income coach, but who knows, at least there is the possibility that a new coach could come in and bring success. I have no doubt in my mind that we will not have success under Smart.

So on to the actual question posed in this thread.

At this point in time, it's mostly on the coach. It's all well in good to say that players have personal responsibilities to play hard and take their game to the next level. But the reality is, if you're putting out 100% game after game, and you see your team lose time and time again because of the coach's rotations and lack of half-court offense game-planning, then you're going to eventually stop giving 100%.

It would be akin to having a normal job, and putting everything you have into doing it right, then seeing the person responsible for taking your work, just muck things up to end up with a mediocre product. Eventually, you're not going to give them flawless production just to see it trashed.

I think this can be clearly seen on the defensive end. Let's be honest with ourselves. The defensive intensity we saw at the beginning of the season is completely gone.
And the reason it's gone, is because all of that hard work ended up just being another loss. It's not as if the players forgot how to play defense. It's simply that trying that hard was pointless because the problems with the offense, roles, rotation was simply to great to overcome to get consistent victories.

So right now we're at a place where we no longer care to give the defensive effort needed to win games and we still lack an offensive system, proper roles, and proper rotations to help us win games.

We have no shot at having success this year as long as the coach and players continue on as we've seen.

We've got talent. We just need a coach who can come in and define roles, implement an offensive scheme which utilizes our talent, and demand accountability out of our players. I'd prefer a veteran coach who has had success, but at this point, I'd take just about anyone.

Bingo! Dead on! Is this a perfect team? No, of course not, but its a far better team than the current results show. The only thing good I can say about the Clipper game, is that I was able to sit next to you and discuss it. Here's a quote from Smart in yesterdays paper.

"Our team is built right now to the point that if we lose a guy, we don't miss a beat because somebody is just as good behind him"

Smart is clearly dislusional. I hate to tell him this, but his team has missed several beats. This guy is living in a fantasy world of his own creation, and he's apparently oblivious to the reality of the situation. Is everyone at Kings headquarters sitting around smoking pot? Is anyone paying attention? Do they know the ship is sinking? Or better yet, do they care? Because if they do, I think it would behove them to let us know that they care. How about white smoke coming out of the chimney to show us they might be considering a change. And I don't mean the ball boy.

In ths same article, Smart said he wants to be a great coach. And he's intent on sticking to his guns and not changing a thing. Is he serious? He implied that he didn't care about the short term, but only the long term. Really? Does he have pictures of the Maloofs in comprimising positions? This guy has to go, and soon. When we were standing in the tunnel and the players started appearing at the end of the tunnel, they didn't look happy or excited. They looked bored, like they were faced with a chore they had to do. The only person that smiled was Jerry Reynolds as he walked through the tunnel. There's something wrong in Dodge, and I doubt its going to get any better. Oh a big trade would spark things for a bit, but as long as Smart is at the helm, this team is going nowhere.

Uncia03 and I agreed on one thing after that game. Smart deserved to be fired right after the game. The only thing that was worse than the play of the players, was the coaching of Smart. Can we have a tried and true coach for just a little while? Please! Someone that really knows what he's doing, and not experimenting night after night. You know, someone like an Adelman!!!!!

[mac]

What a great, visual way to prove conclusively that most of this mess is on the doorstep of the COACHING.
It's as obvious as the game in front of our face - there is almost no coaching going on with these Kings now. They seldom run plays, where each person has a move and they work interconnectedly to get an open shot.

Players can play bad, or play good, if they buy into a team and a program. Their performance and effort is fickle.

What is not fickle or changeable is a coach's plays. Either the team is running plays, or they aren't - and since Smart hasn't been saying since day 1 that this team ISN'T running his plays, then we must conclude they are running the offense he's designed. (Which is why I conclude he's not qualified to coach an NBA team)

This team has NO offensive sets of any significance. NONE. They wander aimlessly on possession after possession, for entire quarters at a time without running something that looks coordinated. And it never seems practiced - the occasional play that is run seems entirely to be players making it up and reacting.

How many coaches in a row has run this same BS non-existent "offense"?
I think I remember Theus having the teams run some plays, and making an attempt at coaching. Ever since Theus, I simply can't remember any significant effort to have the Kings actually run plays on a consistent basis.

With bad coaching, most groups of players aren't going to spontaneously make up plays on the court and work together to get people open - they are going to run single-minded, selfish plays. And that's what we've seen, for YEARS now. Which is why I conclude, with zero exaggeration, that we effectively don't have any coaching right now! If a coach did NOTHING, and didn't run practices and sat on his hands on the sidelines doing nothing but subbing in/out players, you'd have an equitable offensive scheme with what we have right now - players going one-on-one all game long.

Until the Kings start running plays, I contend that the Kings organization is deliberately sabotaging the team through abhorrent lack of coaching. What else would explain the team playing one-on-one? We are not left with many rational options to explain this cluster-cluck.

Wow, I'm starting to agree more and more with you these days.

[mac]

As a rule, I don't like the use of a player excuse to absolve a player of underachieving play. Good players produce regardless. Perfect, point case in point is Tyreke. Folks would politic over what position he should be playing, should he have the ball etc, instead of just admitting and holding him personally responsible for being a letdown from what we expected of him and that if he were truly all-star calibure he would own his position regardless. Now people are saying how much Cousins would be thriving under a different system as a means of excusing his poor play

Bottom line, strategy is part of the game, and we can certainly discusss ad nauseam how our subpar coaches have inadequately used these players, but to use that as the focal point of players ineptitude only serves to absolve the players of responsibility

Yes, because if we moved Steve Nash and Chris Paul off the ball they would continue giving you 11 assists a game. Roles and how you use a player do make a difference. I'm sorry to say this but you're just plain silly if you believe that you can move a guy away from his strengths and what got him into the NBA and expect him to continue producing at a high level in such a short span of time. Tyreke's had the ball in his hands his whole basketball life, and you expect him to produce at the same level when only playing 50ish games off the ball? Sometimes it takes guys a couple of years before they become all-stars you know...

[mac]

While in the car yesterday, I happened to switch the radio to 1140 AM, just because I was not interested in the stuff they were airing on 1530 (the programming was non-news related, btw), and I was not interested in listening to FM radio stations who think it is necessary to infest our ears with crappy music from the likes of Taylor Swift, Kesha, and Katy Perry pretty much during every hour of the day.

Not really to my surprise, The Grant Napear Show was on, and he was taking calls. One of the callers asked what his opinion was on the problem with this team. I agree with what Grant had to say. He believes that it's not so much the coaching as it is the group of players that we have. While he agreed that the talent level is there, he believes, and I agree with him, that the group that we have just don't fit well together. We have too many egos, and we have individuals on our roster who play more one on one basketball than they do team basketball. Did he acknowledge that Keith Smart is part of the problem? Yes, he did not deny that fact. But he also said that he believed that it was unfair to dump Keith Smart this early in the season when the core of the problem, according to him, lies within the players we have on our roster.

I agree 100% with Mr. Napear and believe myself that we do have the talent to win games, but our talent might just not fit well together as a TEAM in order to win those games. We have a lot of individual talents, but none of those individual talents want to make the transition into a team talent, if that makes any sense.

While I agree Keith Smart is not the best coach we could possibly have, I wouldn't label him as the worst. And I sure as heck would not put him at the top of my list as the biggest problem with this team.

Here's what I wonder - who on the team really has a big ego? I'd say Cousins and MT. Tyreke isn't much of an ego guy. Second question - why do we have so many one on one players? Wasn't this what Grant and Jerry were praising at the start of last season? That we have many guys that can create their own shots and handle the ball? Isn't this why they love John Salmons - saying that we can't expect him to be effective just spotting up in the corner and shooting 3s? Also, if you're telling me that a coach in 70+ games and a full offseason hasn't managed to get some of these 1 on 1 players playing team basketball then I'd suggest that the coach is not a very competent one.

[HereWeVivek]

Our biggest problem is NOT the coach. It's NOT the players. It's our management. Our FRONT OFFICE. Starts with the Maloofs, and ends with Petrie.

while this is absolutely true, we are also now stuck with a god awful coach thanks to that Front Office u mentioned. the maloofs are going anywhere (unless the team goes with them) so we might as well fix what we can, the crappy coach, and GM.

i am currently watching OKC vs. Brooklyn on NBATV and wondering what life would be like if we would have made Scott Brooks our coach when we had him here as a assistant....... sigh. i hate being a Kings fan

[HereWeVivek]

Here's a quote from Smart in yesterdays paper.

"Our team is built right now to the point that if we lose a guy, we don't miss a beat because somebody is just as good behind him"

WOWWWW what a ****ing idiot!!!!!!!!!

ya that worked out really well when Tyreke was out these last 2 games. also when Cousins was out. god i hate Smart more and more every day

[rainmaker]

"Our team is built right now to the point that if we lose a guy, we don't miss a beat because somebody is just as good behind him"

Smart is clearly dislusional. I hate to tell him this, but his team has missed several beats. This guy is living in a fantasy world of his own creation, and he's apparently oblivious to the reality of the situation. Is everyone at Kings headquarters sitting around smoking pot? Is anyone paying attention? Do they know the ship is sinking? Or better yet, do they care? Because if they do, I think it would behove them to let us know that they care. How about white smoke coming out of the chimney to show us they might be considering a change. And I don't mean the ball boy.

That is pure lunacy. There's a reason bench players are bench players and starters are starters. Even the leagues better 6th men don't offer the same as the starters in front of them, so the idea the team doesn't miss a beat is asinine. Kevin is a better scorer than Sefalosha, but Sefalosha is the far better defender. Yes Kevin would help spread the floor if he were to start and offer another scoring option, but OKC would also lose the defense Sefalosha provides.

It's roles. Players fill roles. Sefalosha fills the defense role player role. Kevin fills the scoring punch off the bench. you can't just swap one for the other, two different players with two different roles and expect the team not to miss a beat.

You know what else a comment like that is? Insulting. Insulting to the starters. They'd never admit to it in a team atmosphere, but implying the team wouldn't miss a beat when you as a starter are injured is insulting, and implies you're not starting because you're the better player and offer more.

And if we didn't miss a beat with Reke out, then why did Smart appear to use Reke being out as an excuse, as well as using Cuz being out as an excuse when he was suspended?

This coach is so concerned with being everyones best friend he's lost his ability, if he ever had it, to actually coach and lead a group of young men. The top coaches, whether it's Riley, PJax, Thibs, Rivers, Pop, Adelman, etc, couldn't have cared less about being everyone's best friend. Does anyone remember Rick making Wallace feel he was anything aside from our 11-12 man? Did he tell Vlade we wouldn't miss a beat if he was injured and we started Pollard in his place?

I'm fearful of what is actually said in the locker room by Smart. I mean, he says this crap publicly, just imagine what he says when the media isn't there.

[KingsCitizen]

"Our team is built right now to the point that if we lose a guy, we don't miss a beat because somebody is just as good behind him"

I think only the Spurs can say this in the whole league. Just look how they almost defeated the heat without their starters. But that team has been together for maybe a decade. Smart is a Popovich fan. I think he dreams of that. But he should know what is a dream and what's reality.

Reality here is that this team is still learning his system and system is nowhere near Pop's system. We have 4 lottery players in this team and if he plays a system around them most likely these kids will excel.

DMC was near unstoppable last year when most our plays favor him. Reke had successive Rookie form games this year when our plays favored his initiating skills. TRob have a solid midrange and should be a nice rim finisher. Jimmer can shoot and has been getting better control. MT is such a quick release guy for any pick and rolls.

Problem that I see here, is that Smart doesn't seem to know how make these players effective in an alternating manner throughout the game. On most games, we only have one player at high level and the rest is MEH!

[mac]

That is pure lunacy. There's a reason bench players are bench players and starters are starters. Even the leagues better 6th men don't offer the same as the starters in front of them, so the idea the team doesn't miss a beat is asinine. Kevin is a better scorer than Sefalosha, but Sefalosha is the far better defender. Yes Kevin would help spread the floor if he were to start and offer another scoring option, but OKC would also lose the defense Sefalosha provides.

It's roles. Players fill roles. Sefalosha fills the defense role player role. Kevin fills the scoring punch off the bench. you can't just swap one for the other, two different players with two different roles and expect the team not to miss a beat.

You know what else a comment like that is? Insulting. Insulting to the starters. They'd never admit to it in a team atmosphere, but implying the team wouldn't miss a beat when you as a starter are injured is insulting, and implies you're not starting because you're the better player and offer more.

And if we didn't miss a beat with Reke out, then why did Smart appear to use Reke being out as an excuse, as well as using Cuz being out as an excuse when he was suspended?

This coach is so concerned with being everyones best friend he's lost his ability, if he ever had it, to actually coach and lead a group of young men. The top coaches, whether it's Riley, PJax, Thibs, Rivers, Pop, Adelman, etc, couldn't have cared less about being everyone's best friend. Does anyone remember Rick making Wallace feel he was anything aside from our 11-12 man? Did he tell Vlade we wouldn't miss a beat if he was injured and we started Pollard in his place?

I'm fearful of what is actually said in the locker room by Smart. I mean, he says this crap publicly, just imagine what he says when the media isn't there.

Nah, I think what Smart really means is that this team doesn't have a beat to miss, because he's such a bad coach. He'd use James Johnson the same way he uses Evans, Hayes the same way as Cousins. Doesn't matter whether bench players are playing or starters, we're still going to lose because the team has no offensive or defensive direction.

[mac]

I think only the Spurs can say this in the whole league. Just look how they almost defeated the heat without their starters. But that team has been together for maybe a decade. Smart is a Popovich fan. I think he dreams of that. But he should know what is a dream and what's reality.

Reality here is that this team is still learning his system and system is nowhere near Pop's system. We have 4 lottery players in this team and if he plays a system around them most likely these kids will excel.

DMC was near unstoppable last year when most our plays favor him. Reke had successive Rookie form games this year when our plays favored his initiating skills. TRob have a solid midrange and should be a nice rim finisher. Jimmer can shoot and has been getting better control. MT is such a quick release guy for any pick and rolls.

Problem that I see here, is that Smart doesn't seem to know how make these players effective in an alternating manner throughout the game. On most games, we only have one player at high level and the rest is MEH!

There's no such thing as a team not missing a beat. If that were so the Spurs would just trade Parker/Ginobili for more draft picks so they can stay successful for a longer time. Charles Barkley summed it up pretty well: at the end of the day, the difference between the real stars and other players is that they create plays and take over games. Lebron did it for the Heat in that game.

According to Smart however, there are no stars on our team, nobody that we can give the ball to on a nightly basis and expect results. The ridiculous thing is that in such a scenario you would expect even more offensive sets drawn up in order to create good looks, but you don't see that happening. Smart is frankly ... not very smart at all.

[Gary]

I am in that all important 3rd group.. the team is talented and looks like a good team on paper, but it will never work so we need to rid ourselves of our core and keep the role players.

People are still wanting to build around Evans and Cousins, but those two players are not working together. It's a flawed core, and they will not work together. Evans gets a lot of points and the other players games suffer. the other players stats are up then Evans suffers. There is no balance there. The problem with Evans is that he cannot play off the ball and he cannot pass well. It's sucks to have a guard who cant shoot, but the fact that he's ball dominant and cannot see the floor very well really hurts the rest of the players. It does not really hurt Evans because he still gets his good shots.

The problem with Cousins is that he whines too much and screws with the morale of the rest of the team while dogging it out on the floor.

If we rid ourselves of the core and try to grab players that know how to play with a decent staff of roleplayers then we might have our self a team..

I would be willing to go out on a limb and say the team wouldn't be any worse than they are now if we didn't have Cousins and Evans on the team anymore. I think we should look at what deals come for the both of them and try to grab ourselves a couple position players.

[rainmaker]

I think only the Spurs can say this in the whole league. Just look how they almost defeated the heat without their starters. But that team has been together for maybe a decade. Smart is a Popovich fan. I think he dreams of that. But he should know what is a dream and what's reality.

Not really. Twas one game.

Why did Pop rest his key four guys? So he's making sure they're healthy come the playoffs, as he knows without Parker/Manu/Tim/Green they're considerably worse and he needs them when it counts. He simply sacrificed a game.