Tayshaun Prince for Marcus Thornton -- the obvious fix

**Bricklayer** · 12-01-2012, 01:56 PM

Ironically I was not in the Tayshaun Prince camp a couple of years ago. I preferred Kirilenko while Reke was at PG, because Kirilenko can pass and could have helped Reke run things. Nor was Prince's involvment in the player revolt against their own coach very cute. However times have changed. To whit:

-- we need balance.
-- we need a starting SF who can both shoot and defend with size. A very rare combo in sub star level players
-- we need extra veteran voices, and guys not prone to chucking their own shots off the dribble no matter how big of an idiot their coaches are
-- Prince is averging hsi normal numbers: 12.1pts (.459 .412 .816) 4.3reb 2.5ast 0.5stl 0.3blk 1.1TO

Meanwhile:
-- Detroit cannot score.
-- Detroit is looking under rocks for a real SG.
-- Detroit now has 2 6'8"ish young kids in Singler and Jerebeko, one a SF/SG, one a SF/PF, who would benefit from having minutes freed up
-- Prince will be 33 this year and Detroit is in full blown rebuild mode looking for youth

On top of which, the salaries are almost identical. In a lot of ways it makes too much sense as a balancer for both teams.

Thornton 3yrs $7.6mil, $8.2mil, $8.7mil

for

Prince 3yrs $6.7mil, $7.2mil, $7.7mil

-- Detroit gets younger, a pure SG, offensive punch they lack, balances their lineup
-- we get older, a veteran voice, a defender and corner 3pt spot shooting full sized SF, balances our lineup

After the trade we look like:

Cousins
Thompson
Prince
Evans
Brooks

which looks like a very legit NBA lineup with established pros and talented kids mixed in. Off the bench Salmosn becomes Reke's fullsized backup. Jimmer can come in at "PG" and Salmons can babysit his shaky handle again. We can go Hayes/TRob/JJ/Salmons/Jimmer as the reserves, which isn't inspiring, but is again balanced (aside from the small frontcourt). The only real loser is IT who's abrupt fall from grace is confirmed. We lose youth, but gain a critical glue vet and another veteran voice that maybe helps it come together for a few years. Shots are freed. Roles settled and make sense.

**Fear the Putin** · 12-01-2012, 03:16 PM

If we're gonna trade Thornton, we can (should) get a lot more than prince. Plus, prince isn't really the talkative, glue guy. He may be a veteran, but he seems more of a lead by example (though mutiny, as you said isnt a good sign).

**Section 101** · 12-01-2012, 03:31 PM

Prince is on the downside. Bad deal. Better off with JJ and Salmons at the 3.

Trading anything of value for a SF is waste. SF has the most players that are redundant and can plug in anyone of them for the same results. There are only 4 that stand out as all star types LBJ, Durant, Melo (overrated), Pierce. The rest are some good players, but more easily replaceable than any other position.

**Bricklayer** · 12-01-2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Fear the Putin

If we're gonna trade Thornton, we can (should) get a lot more than prince. Plus, prince isn't really the talkative, glue guy. He may be a veteran, but he seems more of a lead by example (though mutiny, as you said isnt a good sign).

Thing is, we don't NEED more than Prince. That's he thing when you look at that SF spot. We don't want a guy who shoots or demands the ball. A "star" in return hurts more than it helps. Its time for balance and experience.

**Bricklayer** · 12-01-2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

Prince is on the downside. Bad deal. Better off with JJ and Salmons at the 3.

That needs a winkie smilie.

**Section 101** · 12-01-2012, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Bricklayer

Thing is, we don't NEED more than Prince. That's he thing when you look at that SF spot. We don't want a guy who shoots or demands the ball. A "star" in return hurts more than it helps. Its time for balance and experience.

JJ fills that roll then and is much cheaper with still a chance to get better.

**Section 101** · 12-01-2012, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bricklayer

That needs a winkie smilie.

It's not the same prince as 8 years ago. He's an average SF at 32 years old.

**Bricklayer** · 12-01-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

It's not the same prince as 8 years ago. He's an average SF at 32 years old.

He is. But then again he always was. His numbers really have never moved. In 05-06 he averaged 35.3min 14.1pts on .455 shooting 4.2reb 2.3ast. Now he's averaging 32min 12.1pts on .459 shooting 4.3reb 2.5ast. Steady as she goes. I never thought he was great, but steady and versatile. That's a critical thing. And having run through every other SF in the league there basically is not a single other one out there with size, defensive ability, and three point shooting ability who is available. Like none. And having a steady as she goes vet holding down a position makes it so much easier to smooth over the erratic play of your kids. I would love him to be 27 for a trade like this. But he's not, and there is no other SF who fits the role so well. Coinsider our SF/SG crew afterwards:

Prince/Johnson
Evans/Salmons

They all have size. They all defend. Suddenly we're balanced.

**Dreadnought** · 12-01-2012, 04:23 PM

I'm not opposed to the trade, but I don't think it helps us win any sooner than we'd like. I like Thornton a lot, he's the funnest player on the team to watch while we keep our decade of losing continuing.

**Sac.1989** · 12-01-2012, 04:33 PM

Thornton and Jimmer/Brooks/IT for Prince and Knight

Now thats a trade

**Section 101** · 12-01-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bricklayer

He is. But then again he always was. His numbers really have never moved. In 05-06 he averaged 35.3min 14.1pts on .455 shooting 4.2reb 2.3ast. Now he's averaging 32min 12.1pts on .459 shooting 4.3reb 2.5ast. Steady as she goes. I never thought he was great, but steady and versatile. That's a critical thing. And having run through every other SF in the league there basically is not a single other one out there with size, defensive ability, and three point shooting ability who is available. Like none. And having a steady as she goes vet holding down a position makes it so much easier to smooth over the erratic play of your kids. I would love him to be 27 for a trade like this. But he's not, and there is no other SF who fits the role so well. Coinsider our SF/SG crew afterwards:

Prince/Johnson
Evans/Salmons

They all have size. They all defend. Suddenly we're balanced.

It's another trade of bleeding talent. Your trading a better player for a worse one thats 8 years older.

**Bricklayer** · 12-01-2012, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

It's another trade of bleeding talent. Your trading a better player for a worse one thats 8 years older.

Yes you are. But talent isn't our problem now. Particularly of the gunner variety where we have numerous chucking midgets more than willing to step up and throw junk at the basket. Its all the intangibles that are holding us back now.

**Bballkingsrock** · 12-01-2012, 06:43 PM

We also need need a back up C. I wouldnt mind doing a 3 way trade with the Bucks to get one of their big men (Udoh, sanders, henson, daly) as well.

Maybe trade Thornton, one of our PGs, cisco for Prince and Udoh.

**Glenn** · 12-01-2012, 06:47 PM

Let's get Gortat and Prince. It's not too late for this year and it would plug a few holes and perhaps allow Petrie to shuffle the players to something more manageable. And then there's the coach ..... I swear this guy could ruin anything.

**Gary** · 12-01-2012, 07:18 PM

It's not the right player to trade. We shouldn't give up a position player for a position player.

We need position players and I would love to get Prince I would rather trade a "player without a position" before I trade Thornton who has a solidified position.

**TyFreak Evans** · 12-01-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bricklayer

Ironically I was not in the Tayshaun Prince camp a couple of years ago. I preferred Kirilenko while Reke was at PG, because Kirilenko can pass and could have helped Reke run things. Nor was Prince's involvment in the player revolt against their own coach very cute. However times have changed. To whit:

-- we need balance.
-- we need a starting SF who can both shoot and defend with size. A very rare combo in sub star level players
-- we need extra veteran voices, and guys not prone to chucking their own shots off the dribble no matter how big of an idiot their coaches are
-- Prince is averging hsi normal numbers: 12.1pts (.459 .412 .816) 4.3reb 2.5ast 0.5stl 0.3blk 1.1TO

Meanwhile:
-- Detroit cannot score.
-- Detroit is looking under rocks for a real SG.
-- Detroit now has 2 6'8"ish young kids in Singler and Jerebeko, one a SF/SG, one a SF/PF, who would benefit from having minutes freed up
-- Prince will be 33 this year and Detroit is in full blown rebuild mode looking for youth

On top of which, the salaries are almost identical. In a lot of ways it makes too much sense as a balancer for both teams.

Thornton 3yrs $7.6mil, $8.2mil, $8.7mil

for

Prince 3yrs $6.7mil, $7.2mil, $7.7mil

-- Detroit gets younger, a pure SG, offensive punch they lack, balances their lineup
-- we get older, a veteran voice, a defender and corner 3pt spot shooting full sized SF, balances our lineup

After the trade we look like:

Cousins
Thompson
Prince
Evans
Brooks

which looks like a very legit NBA lineup with established pros and talented kids mixed in. Off the bench Salmosn becomes Reke's fullsized backup. Jimmer can come in at "PG" and Salmons can babysit his shaky handle again. We can go Hayes/TRob/JJ/Salmons/Jimmer as the reserves, which isn't inspiring, but is again balanced (aside from the small frontcourt). The only real loser is IT who's abrupt fall from grace is confirmed. We lose youth, but gain a critical glue vet and another veteran voice that maybe helps it come together for a few years. Shots are freed. Roles settled and make sense.

I will say "Deal" in a heartbeat if you can produce the 2000-2005 version of Tayshaun Prince. Anything else, and I shall pass.

**DesertFox** · 12-02-2012, 10:48 AM

I still prefer Dudley. Younger, cheaper, and a better shooter. A couple inches shorter, but just as strong defending the post.

I would have hesitated MT for Prince a lot more a year ago, but looks more and more like MT is not going to be the overall player he was that first half season, and is only a gunner with average efficiency.

It's getting to the point where the team needs a leadership shakeup, even if there is some talent loss, and this move could do it.

**HereWeVivek** · 12-02-2012, 12:26 PM

i would never do that. especially considering the age of Prince

**SacTownKid** · 12-02-2012, 02:39 PM

No way to this deal. Thornton is the SG for this team, can be a teams number 2 option and is paid peanuts relative to his NBA counterparts. Tyrekes resurgence recently is a result of him playing that PG role he did his first season. I have no idea why Thornton and Tyreke still aren't getting a chance to develop chemistry. This team might as well just put the most talent on the floor it can, I don't know any trio of a teams best players that don't play together at the same time.

Petrie should look and see if JT could nab Prince though. Fills a hole, cuts some clutter in the frontcourt possibly opening minutes for that top 5 pick of the last draft and/or the next draft and this summer see if you can add some more defense to the frontline.

Another expanded deal that might be interesting could be Reke, Salmons, JT, and IT for Prince, Drummond, Maxiell, and Bynum. Get Drummond who this team missed out on and clear some cap. Losing Reke sucks, but who knows what he'll be commanding this summer and this team can't afford to eliminate all cap mobility with this team looking like hot caca.