Grades v. Lakers 11/21/2012

[Section 101]

dude hes 23 years old. he can handle 38 minutes per game. do u see OKC only playing Durant 30MPG just so he can maintain the highest level of energy? NO, what about the Lakers with Kobe? NO.

So if he goes back to higher minutes and his energy level is not the same as this game what is the excuse? No I don't think he can play at this level at 36 mpg. He needs to get better legs for that.

[Bibbilicious]

I actually thought it was messed up that BOTH Tyreke and Salmons were on the bench for so long. Salmons was doing really well at shutting Kobe down and Tyreke was leading the charge throughout the 3rd quarter. Im not saying that he needs to play more just because of who he is, but he needed to be on the floor more because he and Salmons were demonstrating that they were handling the Lakers well. Coach Smart chose to live by his hard rule that he NEEDS to bring in an entirely new lineup for the majority of the quarter despite what happened in the 3rd. It just seems to me that he really is not flexible when it comes to specific game situations. This instance of bringing in starters late in the 4th has happened all season. Not just to Tyreke. I'm happy the bench was able to do so well, but Im just saying I didnt really see much reason to change to them in the first place based on the 3rd quarter.

[Bricklayer]

So if he goes back to higher minutes and his energy level is not the same as this game what is the excuse? No I don't think he can play at this level at 36 mpg. He needs to get better legs for that.

You're just making excuses now. Neither you, I, nor anybody else knows how good his legs are because they are never tested. Its like saying Usain Bolt can't run the 200 at speed because you've only seen him in the 100.

In this game Tyreke played 25 minutes at a very high level before his coach iced until the end of the game. In order for your line to be anything but a line you would have to be arguing that if he had come back in at the 7 minute mark of the 4th, he would have pooped out by the final 2-3 minutes.

[pshn80]

Totally agree.

People should watch the end of the game again. The entire team was animated and involved, whether they were on the court or the bench. It was a TEAM effort and a TEAM win. The exact number of minutes is, IMHO, irrelevant, especially considering the outcome of the game and how that outcome was achieved.

Couldn't agree more. IF minutes are rewards, and I don't think they are. then the one that deserved the most minutes got them. He has been steady and reliable and playing better all the time.

[UK_King]

I was bemused why he didn't come back earlier in the 4th.

I was just crossing my fingers that Kobe didn't go off and turn the tide.

I thought we played a lot better last night, there wasn't a real improvement in the half court but the energy was noticeably up and we got John Salmons his favourite play, curling off a screen from the baseline, thankfully he was hitting his shots, the lakers helped us out with some sloppy play and we got out in the open court early and often.

Kobe was allowed to do absolutely anything he wanted as usual, countless phantom fouls, a very bad one on Salmons, he claps his hands over and over and over again when he doesn't get his fouls and NEVER gets a tech. It makes me sick watching his whining and crying all game long. Pau annoys me as well with his screaming when he goes to the rim like a small infant.

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Meh, i dont buy that. With that logic only the Celtics are ever allowed to talk trash...i think. I can and will rub in as much as a possibly can to the point of absurd obnoxiousness lol

Title winners can talk smack with other title winners. Even Mav fans have scoreboard on us now...we can trash talk with Clipper fan though.

[mac]

So if he goes back to higher minutes and his energy level is not the same as this game what is the excuse? No I don't think he can play at this level at 36 mpg. He needs to get better legs for that.

Question: if Lakers bench played well and took a 4 point lead would the coach keep 34 year old Kobe Bryant on the bench with 6 minutes left to go in the game?

It's not just about the win. We were fortunate to get the win. It's the whole reason why every single team on the planet besides ours has a proper starting line up, bench unit, and final lineup that closes out quarters or games. The whole point is that your final lineup is supposed to be your best lineup - it's supposed to keep you in the game, extend the lead or get the lead back. It doesn't matter if your bench unit plays well for one game, you still go back to your best lineup to close out the game. Now if you want to argue that Evans isn't part of our best lineup then it's a whole different story, but as far as coaching strategy goes what Smart did (and does every game) is extremely stupid. I'm just glad that it didn't cost us a win last night. If a kid plays with fire but doesn't get burned you don't go "oh phew, he didn't get burned.", and leave it as that. You tell him to stop playing with fire.

[Section 101]

You're just making excuses now. Neither you, I, nor anybody else knows how good his legs are because they are never tested. Its like saying Usain Bolt can't run the 200 at speed because you've only seen him in the 100.

In this game Tyreke played 25 minutes at a very high level before his coach iced until the end of the game. In order for your line to be anything but a line you would have to be arguing that if he had come back in at the 7 minute mark of the 4th, he would have pooped out by the final 2-3 minutes.

I'm not referring to just the 1 game. Why did he stop putting out the same energy as his rookie year the past 2 years? That's the question. If the reason was because he was pacing himself then his minutes would need to be reduced from what he has been playing the past 2 years.

[Reke 13 Havoc]

I'm not referring to just the 1 game. Why did he stop putting out the same energy as his rookie year the past 2 years? That's the question. If the reason was because he was pacing himself then his minutes would need to be reduced from what he has been playing the past 2 years.

Probably because he was taken out of his natural and most effective position.

[mac]

I'm not referring to just the 1 game. Why did he stop putting out the same energy as his rookie year the past 2 years? That's the question. If the reason was because he was pacing himself then his minutes would need to be reduced from what he has been playing the past 2 years.

Maybe because he's young and doesn't/didn't have the desire or understanding of what it took to be a great player? That and him not having the ball in his hands - it's a lot harder to play with energy in a role that you're uncomfortable in. That's only on the offensive end though, defensively we can certainly agree that he hasn't been playing with this kind of intensity the last two - three years. That's on him as a young player, but also a result of not having good leadership provided by vets or coaches.

[tyreeeke]

I was bemused why he didn't come back earlier in the 4th.

I was just crossing my fingers that Kobe didn't go off and turn the tide.

I thought we played a lot better last night, there wasn't a real improvement in the half court but the energy was noticeably up and we got John Salmons his favourite play, curling off a screen from the baseline, thankfully he was hitting his shots, the lakers helped us out with some sloppy play and we got out in the open court early and often.

Kobe was allowed to do absolutely anything he wanted as usual, countless phantom fouls, a very bad one on Salmons, he claps his hands over and over and over again when he doesn't get his fouls and NEVER gets a tech. It makes me sick watching his whining and crying all game long. Pau annoys me as well with his screaming when he goes to the rim like a small infant.

lmao, Pau annoys the hell out of me with his softness. Hard to imagine LA winning back to back titles with him as their second best player. I guess that shattered all the myths about Kobe needing a player like Shaq to win titles.

[Section 101]

Maybe because he's young and doesn't/didn't have the desire or understanding of what it took to be a great player? That and him not having the ball in his hands - it's a lot harder to play with energy in a role that you're uncomfortable in. That's only on the offensive end though, defensively we can certainly agree that he hasn't been playing with this kind of intensity the last two - three years. That's on him as a young player, but also a result of not having good leadership provided by vets or coaches.

That doesn't explain his second year and the first part last year under westfail and smart. Stop trying to blame Smart for everything. KD was on a young team and was playing out of position his first year +. Didn't stop him from playing with energy.

[Bricklayer]

That doesn't explain his second year and the first part last year under westfail and smart. Stop trying to blame Smart for everything. KD was on a young team and was playing out of position his first year +. Didn't stop him from playing with energy.

Hogwash. KD looked poor his first year. Talent was clearly there, but he was sluggish on defense in particular and just settled for long chucks on offense.

Reke's most energetic year he averaged 37.2min as an on the ball player. He has a foot injury eventually requiring surgery the next year. Comes into a strike shortned season with little camp time the next, and sees an ugly coaching change, and a radical position change wihtin the first 6 weeks of the rushed season. Obviously all signs/excuses why he can only have energy playing 30min a night now.

Hogwash.

[Gary]

That doesn't explain his second year and the first part last year under westfail and smart. Stop trying to blame Smart for everything. KD was on a young team and was playing out of position his first year +. Didn't stop him from playing with energy.

Been down that road.. Not going to win the "excuses" battle when 90% of this forum blames his bad play on extenuating circumstances. I agree with you and I think there comes a point where you have to stop making excuses but 90% of this forum isn't to that point yet so it's not even worth arguing about it. Give it 5 more years?

[pshn80]

I'm sure glad we didn't lose the game. If we had we wouldn't of had this discussion.

[Gary]

Yah even I think it's getting a bit stale, and I love to argue.

[Reke 13 Havoc]

That doesn't explain his second year

plantar faciatis

[bajaden]

u serious? u think this guys comment is legitamate? hes basically saying that benching Tyreke for the entire 4th quarter, when he was the best player on the court, was a help to the team

I'm just curious, and I really don't care who plays if we win. And when I last checked, we won the damm game, and we won it fairly convincingly. Now personally, if Tyreke had been on the floor, that would have been fine with me. But I'm not going to bitch because he wasn't on the floor, simply because we won the game. And thats what should matter, and not some ridiculous love affair with any player.

I thought Tyreke had one of his best games in a long time, but I completely understand why Smart didn't sub sooner. The group he had on the floor was playing outstanding basketball, and when your horse is leading, you don't change horses, unless your horse starts to tire. I've heard comments from posters complaininig that Smart took, I assume one of their favorite players, out of the game just when he was on a roll. But now some of those same people are complaining that he didn't take out players on a roll to put their favorite player back in the game.

Its possible that if he had brought back Cousins and Tyreke much earlier, that we might have lost the game. There's no guarantee that the same chemistry that was happening would have continued. Its one thing if were talking about Stockton and Malone, or Shaq and Kobe, but at the moment, Cousins and Tyreke don't quite fall into that catagory. I, like everyone else have my favorite players on the team, but when they're not preforming up to snuff, I'm screaming at my TV to get them out of the game and sit their butts down for a while. I only care about one damm thing, WINNING!

[pshn80]

I'm just curious, and I really don't care who plays if we win. And when I last checked, we won the damm game, and we won it fairly convincingly. Now personally, if Tyreke had been on the floor, that would have been fine with me. But I'm not going to bitch because he wasn't on the floor, simply because we won the game. And thats what should matter, and not some ridiculous love affair with any player.

I thought Tyreke had one of his best games in a long time, but I completely understand why Smart didn't sub sooner. The group he had on the floor was playing outstanding basketball, and when your horse is leading, you don't change horses, unless your horse starts to tire. I've heard comments from posters complaininig that Smart took, I assume one of their favorite players, out of the game just when he was on a roll. But now some of those same people are complaining that he didn't take out players on a roll to put their favorite player back in the game.

Its possible that if he had brought back Cousins and Tyreke much earlier, that we might have lost the game. There's no guarantee that the same chemistry that was happening would have continued. Its one thing if were talking about Stockton and Malone, or Shaq and Kobe, but at the moment, Cousins and Tyreke don't quite fall into that catagory. I, like everyone else have my favorite players on the team, but when they're not preforming up to snuff, I'm screaming at my TV to get them out of the game and sit their butts down for a while. I only care about one damm thing, WINNING!

Even though I'm beating a dead horse, your post was so right on,
I had to thank you for the breath of fresh ar.

[rainmaker]

Yes, the benching your starters for the majority of the 2nd and 4th quarters has been a phenomenal strategy. We're a whopping 23-47 under Smart, 3-8 this season, but since it worked on Wed, it must be the right strategy.

Now apparently, if you disagree with that strategy you simply have a ridiculous love affair with a player. So, we've seen this strategy pay off three out of 11 times this year, so it must be working great. But we won, so questionable mistakes which have plagued us all season don't matter anymore. I guess winning one game that way is mor eimportant than a viable strategy which helps us win more games in the long run, with, you know, semi-consistent rotations.

Reminds me of everyone which questioned our meaningless run and gun style last year, who must have been wrong in their criticism, because hey, we won a few games. Seems to have payed off....

Also reminds me off the people who questioned Smart this preseason, but were told to relax, because hey, we were winning. Seems to have payed off.....

Good thing the bench brought us home on Wed, as it re-enforces what a great strategy it has been to constantly ride them during key parts of games. But I guess sooner or later you win a game with that strategy so it makes it the correct one. If there was any truth or any evidence to suggest Smart simply rode a hot unit this one game, I'd feel differently. But he rides the bench too long every game and just because it finally payed off doesn't make it the correct strategy.