Fire Petrie says Bee's Voisin in Kings troubles rant

[Warhawk]

That's fine with me. It's obvious what we have now doesn't work so why not clean house?

Actually, no. What we know is that with the crappy carousel of coaches chosen by the family Maloof we have a team that doesn't win much. If you get a good coach and the result is the same, then you might have a point. At this point we do know we have talent, but it isn't as well matched as it should be. But that doesn't mean that we can't do a lot better than we have with the players under contract. I'm not saying we shouldn't make moves to improve, but it is like shuffling chairs on the Titanic until we get a good coach.

[Gary]

Actually, no. What we know is that with the crappy carousel of coaches chosen by the family Maloof we have a team that doesn't win much. If you get a good coach and the result is the same, then you might have a point. At this point we do know we have talent, but it isn't as well matched as it should be. But that doesn't mean that we can't do a lot better than we have with the players under contract. I'm not saying we shouldn't make moves to improve, but it is like shuffling chairs on the Titanic until we get a good coach.

At some point you need to put the blame on the players as well. It's not their fault they were paired together on this dysfunctional team, but they need to learn to play together and no amount of yelling by the coach will make them better. It's something that has to click in the players head. The players need to know what the other players are doing before they do it. Obviously they have no idea. That's something that comes with experience, and they have had years to improve but they are getting worse and we keep adding better players and wondering why things are still sucking.

[Gary]

There is no way, on Earth, that Gary is going to include Reke in it.

Reke done him wrong you see.

Reke isn't a roleplayer.. Why would I include him? He's SUPPOSED to be one of our CORE players.

[mac]

At some point you need to put the blame on the players as well. It's not their fault they were paired together on this dysfunctional team, but they need to learn to play together and no amount of yelling by the coach will make them better. It's something that has to click in the players head. The players need to know what the other players are doing before they do it. Obviously they have no idea. That's something that comes with experience, and they have had years to improve but they are getting worse and we keep adding better players and wondering why things are still sucking.

But the players are also being put in different positions year after year. A lot of chemistry on the court that you see on good teams are first born out of running set plays multiple times. Look at Cuz and Reke's first years in the league: Tyreke always knew that Omri or Garcia would be spotting up in the corner when he drove. Cousins found a cutting Beno or Tyreke several times a game his rookie year. But now you change the players that they're playing with, in Evans case move him out of position to SF last year, and you wonder why they have difficulty working with each other? We're finally starting to see some chemistry develop with Tyreke and Brooks and Cousins, as well as Hayes and Thornton off the bench. If the guys are put in fixed spots under a proper coaching system they'll know where to find each other as they play together more. Right now Thornton is playing with Jimmer as his PG one night and with IT the next - and those two guys have very very different styles of play. How are they going to learn to play together at the level that we desire?

[VF21]

Fire Petrie, fire Smart, fire the Maloof, fire Slamson, trade almost all the players. Right now I can't stand this mess, and I don't have any hope things can go better with this personnel. Clean the house and restart from the beginning. Fore the right offer, I'd trade anyone, and I mean anyone on this team, even DMC.

Am I overreacting? Yes, but I'm a fan and I can. I'm really tired of this situation, and the FO doing nothing is just killing me.

I've pretty much quit caring about a lot of stuff, but I do still care about Slamson, one of if not the best mascot in the NBA. You don't fire Slamson!!!

[Gary]

But the players are also being put in different positions year after year. A lot of chemistry on the court that you see on good teams are first born out of running set plays multiple times. Look at Cuz and Reke's first years in the league: Tyreke always knew that Omri or Garcia would be spotting up in the corner when he drove. Cousins found a cutting Beno or Tyreke several times a game his rookie year. But now you change the players that they're playing with, in Evans case move him out of position to SF last year, and you wonder why they have difficulty working with each other? We're finally starting to see some chemistry develop with Tyreke and Brooks and Cousins, as well as Hayes and Thornton off the bench. If the guys are put in fixed spots under a proper coaching system they'll know where to find each other as they play together more.

So then you agree that even if you get better players on paper it doesn't always work out on the floor? Sometimes that "paper" team of ours puts it all together and plays a great game against a great team and beats them. The next night something doesn't click and everyone is playing crappy. And this chemistry you speak of I have not seen much of this year. The team is not better. Not at all. Certain roleplayers bring it almost every night which is GREAT! I am loving that part. They know what they need to do and they do it. Our core is either dominating the ball and not producing much or whining to the refs.

But needless to say the team hasn't won in a very long time, and I figured that we gave it a few years and it didn't get any better so we might as well try something else rather than keeping to add players on top of a flawed team/system.

I would go as far as saying that you could take 3/5th of our starting lineup and replace them with lesser individual players and this TEAM would be better overnight.


Early day tomorrow.. night everyone

[Bricklayer]

At some point you need to put the blame on the players as well. It's not their fault they were paired together on this dysfunctional team, but they need to learn to play together and no amount of yelling by the coach will make them better. It's something that has to click in the players head. The players need to know what the other players are doing before they do it. Obviously they have no idea. That's something that comes with experience, and they have had years to improve but they are getting worse and we keep adding better players and wondering why things are still sucking.

One wonders what years they have had exactly. What stability? The organization and coaches have done absolutely everything possible to encourage INstability, which is compeltely 100% the opposite of what you are supposed to do. Constant trades, roster instabilities, scrub of the month specials, miserable rotations, guys playing out of position -- it just never ends. Not to mention some truly stupid and stubborn idiot wearing ties over on the sidelines.

BTW, I think I'll post this one more time for "Smart's" benefit as he's now 75 gms into his tenure, almost a full season:

Keith Smart w/ Tyreke Evans at PG:
8 wins 14 losses .364
8 home games (5-3 .625)
14 road games (3-11 .214)

Keith Smart w/o Tyreke Evans at PG:
16 wins 37 losses .302
31 home games (13-18 .419)
22 road games (3-19 .136)

Want to see some nifty math balancing out the huge Home/Road discrepancy?
Sample season at Reke PG pace: 41 x .625 = 25.6 and 41 x .214 = 8.8 = 34.4wins
Sample season at other PG pace: 41 x .419 = 17.2 and 41 x .136 = 5.6 = 22.8wins

Now, option #1 ain't great . But you're alive and competitive at 34-35 wins, hoping for chemsitry to build, to squeeze out another 5 wins somewhere and get in the hunt. You're a player away from the playoffs maybe and still playing for something in March. But option #2 has brought chaos and disaster as one of the absolutely most hopeless squads in the league. Now maybe Smart is so convinced he has the Brothers Dim completely wrapped around his pinky finger that he truly feels invulnerable and unaccountable. But if the situation is anything but that sure, the wheels have come completely off and excuses to not go back to the lunkhead linehead have grown increasingly thin. We've only got the three real quality players. We've probably blown our last two lottery picks. So for your own sake Smart, throw your best guys out there and play them 40 minutes a night/until they foul out. Any claim that that move could possibly makes things worse is comical. Everything else you have tried, everything else, has failed miserably.

[Gary]

How many years are you wanting to give this? I am pretty tired of watching the same things over and over. Frankly the problems this team has now are the same problem this team (and its players) have now.

Have you ever thought about the chicken and the egg? Maybe the coaching staff is having a miserable time at this because the core we put together just doesn't work hence making every other aspect of the team look just as bad. How many years, and how many coaches do you want to go through before you think that maybe it's the players that Petrie put together that doesn't work rather than every single coach we bring in failing at their job? Maybe that's why the rotations keep getting messed with all the time. It can't be because us (the forum posters) know more about coaching and could do a better job than any of the last four coaches we have had could it? So maybe the reason they keep changing things is because things just don't work and they are dumbfounded that we have tremendous individual talent but for some reason when it comes to team play we have maybe one in our starting lineup who knows how to play a team game?

[Padrino]

How many years are you wanting to give this? I am pretty tired of watching the same things over and over. Frankly the problems this team has now are the same problem this team (and its players) have now.

Have you ever thought about the chicken and the egg? Maybe the coaching staff is having a miserable time at this because the core we put together just doesn't work hence making every other aspect of the team look just as bad. How many years, and how many coaches do you want to go through before you think that maybe it's the players that Petrie put together that doesn't work rather than every single coach we bring in failing at their job? Maybe that's why the rotations keep getting messed with all the time. It can't be because us (the forum posters) know more about coaching and could do a better job than any of the last four coaches we have had could it? So maybe the reason they keep changing things is because things just don't work and they are dumbfounded that we have tremendous individual talent but for some reason when it comes to team play we have maybe one in our starting lineup who knows how to play a team game?

i'll certainly grant you that this kings team remains unfortunately mismatched. however, i'd ask you if the names eric musselman, reggie theus, paul westphal, or keith smart inspire any kind of faith in you? more to the point, i'd ask you if any of those names have been recently attached to anything that resembles a winning culture in this league? is musselman wowing all-star level talent somewhere else with his powerpoint presentations right now? is theus currently pacing up and down nba sidelines in an expensive suit to match an expensive roster? is paul westphal losing a lockerroom full of superstars? or is he back on his surf board again, without generating even the slightest whiff of nba interest in his resume, just like the rest of the bargain bin coaches that have pinballed their way in and out of sacramento in the last half-decade? great coaches make the most of their talent, no matter how mismatched it might be. that said, if there's a name like gregg popovich, phil jackson, jerry sloan, or rick adelman attached to this team, then sure, we can engage the chicken and egg argument with great vigor. but when kings ownership and management continue to nickel and dime their way through coaching searches a full five years after cutting rick adelman (and his eight straight playoff appearances) loose, you cannot assume that this core has reached its apex, or rightfully conclude that it should be given up on...

[Prince_XY]

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Seriously. Petrie has checked out. He's straight up Weekend At Bernie's. Maloofs aren't making B-ball decisions. It's a ghost town.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Understand: THERE IS NOBODY RUNNING BASKETBALL OPS FOR THE SACRAMENTO KINGS. Amazing. It's like June for a high school senior.

I think Petrie should just resign.

He lost everyone already because of his laziness.

Oh wait, where is uncia?

[Capt. Factorial]

I think Petrie should just resign.

We know you think Petrie should resign. It's been a few years now that practically every post you make is about how much you don't like Petrie. It's a proverbial dead horse for you.

But I do find it interesting that you deleted the first of the three CarmichaelDave tweets - the one that makes it clear that Dave's assessment of Petrie having "checked out" is based on Dave's bizarre view that our front office should be (independent of the league, whose job it is to do these things, by the way) fining and suspending our own player based on a Twitter-whine from an opponent and inconclusive video evidence that makes it look as if the contact was incidental and unintentional.

Dave went off the rails here. The full context makes it clear that Dave went off the rails. Yet you remove that context and use Dave's fever rant as some sort of journalistic evidence to prop up your longstanding grudge. I'm not going to ask why, because I'm pretty sure I understand why, but I'm compelled to point out that what you're engaging in is dirty pool, and I believe you're probably well aware of that.

[Kingsguy881]

At some point you need to put the blame on the players as well. It's not their fault they were paired together on this dysfunctional team, but they need to learn to play together and no amount of yelling by the coach will make them better. It's something that has to click in the players head. The players need to know what the other players are doing before they do it. Obviously they have no idea. That's something that comes with experience, and they have had years to improve but they are getting worse and we keep adding better players and wondering why things are still sucking.

Wrong!! Lol, a good coach makes all the difference. Case in point, my son's soccer team started out 0-3, scored 1 goal in the 3 games. Coach had no idea what he was doing, assistant coach was even more clueless. On request of the parents, I stepped in as 'acting' coach, being that I played competitive soccer for 8 years in my youth. The team finished 6-4, they went 6-1 under me and averaged 4+ goals a game. Half the team had played 1 year or less, we are talking under 8's here. How did I take a team that was 0-3 and scored 1 goal in 3 games to a team that went 6-1, beating the same teams we lost to, and scoring 34 goals in those 7 games I had them? Coaching bro. Coaching. It's called rotations, sub patterns, teaching, and putting the players in the best positions to succeed.

[VF21]

We know you think Petrie should resign. It's been a few years now that practically every post you make is about how much you don't like Petrie. It's a proverbial dead horse for you.

But I do find it interesting that you deleted the first of the three CarmichaelDave tweets - the one that makes it clear that Dave's assessment of Petrie having "checked out" is based on Dave's bizarre view that our front office should be (independent of the league, whose job it is to do these things, by the way) fining and suspending our own player based on a Twitter-whine from an opponent and inconclusive video evidence that makes it look as if the contact was incidental and unintentional.

Dave went off the rails here. The full context makes it clear that Dave went off the rails. Yet you remove that context and use Dave's fever rant as some sort of journalistic evidence to prop up your longstanding grudge. I'm not going to ask why, because I'm pretty sure I understand why, but I'm compelled to point out that what you're engaging in is dirty pool, and I believe you're probably well aware of that.

Thanks, Capt. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Dave has developed some rather bizarre views.

[Prince_XY]

We know you think Petrie should resign. It's been a few years now that practically every post you make is about how much you don't like Petrie. It's a proverbial dead horse for you.

But I do find it interesting that you deleted the first of the three CarmichaelDave tweets - the one that makes it clear that Dave's assessment of Petrie having "checked out" is based on Dave's bizarre view that our front office should be (independent of the league, whose job it is to do these things, by the way) fining and suspending our own player based on a Twitter-whine from an opponent and inconclusive video evidence that makes it look as if the contact was incidental and unintentional.

Dave went off the rails here. The full context makes it clear that Dave went off the rails. Yet you remove that context and use Dave's fever rant as some sort of journalistic evidence to prop up your longstanding grudge. I'm not going to ask why, because I'm pretty sure I understand why, but I'm compelled to point out that what you're engaging in is dirty pool, and I believe you're probably well aware of that.

You can review all my post for the past several years and there is no truth that practically "every" post I make is about my dislike of Petrie. You can probably use the word "a lot", but not "every". But I admit that I want to point out that a lot of people are disgruntled on Petrie's uninspiring passiveness/laziness. And now the list even includes Dave. I think this is appropriate for this thread.

The reason I deleted Dave's first tweet is because I don't believe Cousins should be fined and suspended (or thrown under the bus in this case) by his own organization as was implied by Dave. BUT, Petrie as our GM should have directed an investigation, and then at least issued a statement that Cousins' action was unintentional. This kind of official statement if coming from our GM could have influenced the NBA decision in favor of Cousins. Of course, it did not happen because Petrie is so passive and/or lazy. The Kings is a rudderless ship under Petrie.

BTW, english is my second language. What do you mean by "dirty pool"?

Also, here is the complete quote if you think it is really necessary:

here's some interesting tweets from Carmichael Dave tonight.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Speaking Kings- The fact that no fine/suspension/statement was announced on Cousins today reaffirms this is a rudderless ship.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Seriously. Petrie has checked out. He's straight up Weekend At Bernie's. Maloofs aren't making B-ball decisions. It's a ghost town.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Understand: THERE IS NOBODY RUNNING BASKETBALL OPS FOR THE SACRAMENTO KINGS. Amazing. It's like June for a high school senior.