Truehoop article on Tyreke's season and situation

[rainmaker]

I think the onus falls on the Kings inability to develop young players. The idea that Tyreke needs to be "more aggressiveness" is just too general to hold any value. If anything, he needs to be more patient or calculating...but only if the Kings are running an offensive set and he's waiting for players to move to certain spots so that he can drive to the hoop or drive and kick. The 'freedom' thing being thrown around is also troubling for the Tyreke's future. If anything, the young players need structure... and then granted freedom from within that structure as play dictates. When I watch the Kings, it appears that often times that players just simply don't know where to go on the floor.


Can anyone spout off some names of young players drafted by the Kings that they have successfully developed? Maybe Jason Williams and Jason Thompson...?

JWill was developed by Hubie Brown. Maybe JT. Kevin Martin is the obvious example, but he never developed his defense or ballhandling.

One thing which is pretty obvious in the past couple years, it's hard to point at anyone on our roster playing up to their potential, aside from MT for a spurt. IT played great last year and is now a shell of that player. Part I think is the NBA defenses aren't caught by surprise anymore, but a huge part is how he's used. Jimmer seems to be getting better, but even with him he's not doing anything positive as a creator. He's better off the ball which we've seen and should never be played with small, non-defensive lineups, which is what usually surrounds him.

[sactownfan]

ok so the article was basically about how the Kings tried the whole PG thing then scrapped it. had a few different coaches tried a couple different positions and lineups... Evans has just gotten worse and worse since the ROY year.

WHY? well the league figured him out.... and its pretty easy to do... just load up the paint... Evans cant shoot. Hes a one trick pony...its not coaching, its not a lack of having a solid position. Its basically Evans own fault. HOWEVER I DO BELIEVE... if we had a SF that could consistently nail 3's that would help space the floor a little bit more for Evans... and thats on Petrie.

but at the core of Evans "failure to launch" is that he needed to add one thing to his game since he was drafted... shoot!!! or at least be sorta ok decent... geez ...and its his own fault he cant... Evans even said it himself this offseason. That he didn't apply himself working on it as much as he could have after year 1. plus players that wanna improve their shots get their own coaches for that so again thats on Evans.

Just imagine that Evans could just all of a sudden have a so so sorta ok shot... this team would be completely different. life for the Kings and Evans would be completely different. I think we still need a SF that can consistently nail 3's but no shot Evans is only holding himself and the team back.

[swisshh]

Cousins has improved. Cisco improved under Theus. You could argue KMart improved as well. Martin never improved his defense or ball handling, but that just seems to be the limits of his game as those things didn't get better in his time outside of Sacramento either.

[hrdboild]

Well I'll be honest with you, if Tyreke was 7'2" and weighed 350 Lbs, I wouldn't be worried about him having a jumpshot. Come on, talk about comparing apples and oranges. Your right about Rondo not being a great shooter, but you know what, he's a better shooter than Tyreke. And, he's surounded by players that can shoot. As I've said, you can get away with having one poor shooter on the floor, but we have two, and thats the problem. Now somehow, this discussion has turned into, Tyreke's not a selfish player. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that he was selfish. I certainly don't think so. They did say, and the article said, that he seems to have lost his aggression. Which I can understand to some extent.

If the other team is packing the lane, and making it very difficult for you to get to the basket, and you can't hit an outside shot, guess what? Your confidence starts to wane. You start questioning what you should do, because nothing seems to be working. And when you lose your confidence, you lose your aggressiveness. Now everyone can say that the Kings are screwing up a good thing by asking him to change his game. I disagree! Every player should strive to be a more well rounded player. To grow his game. Fact: Tyreke needs to be able to hit a jumpshot to become a more complete player. Fact: So far, he's failed to do that. Fact: No one but him, can accomplish that, and no one else is to blame for that.

As I said before, without a jumpshot, what you see is what you get. Either way, he's still a very talented player, and with the right cast around him, and the ball always in his hands, he could still be very effective. But are we building around him, or Cousins? Because if its Cousins, the best player to have next to him, is someone like a Steve Nash. Of which there are few.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. Tyreke is one of my favorite players. I think his ability to get to the basket is special. But I won't make excuses for him, and I doubt he would make them for himself. A player knows when he's not playing well. Were barely into the season, so there's still time for him to turn it around. But he needs to stick with what he practiced, and not revert back to old habits. If he does, the shots will start to fall. If he reverts back, I fear he's doomed to always be a poor shooter.

I'm not trying to compare Tyreke to Shaq. Obviously Shaq dominated because he just physically overpowered every other player in the league. My point was that the best player of his generation never learned how to shoot. That's over 21 seasons in the league. He didn't need to be able to hit a jumpshot to be successful. Would it have made him a more well-rounded player? Absolutely. Hell, if learned to shoot even 60% from the free throw line probably his team wins the Finals 8 years in a row while he's in his prime. That's a pretty huge hole in his game, but lots of players have holes in their game. You gameplan around them. Shaq is far from the only example, he's just the most obvious one.

Mainly I'm reacting to the idea that Tyreke's game is regressing because he can't shoot. No, it's regressing because he's trying to play outside of his comfort zone and the only direction he's getting from his coach is "be more aggressive". Other people have pointed this out already, but Tyreke's usage rate is 7th on the team (7th!) and he leads the team in assists. He could be a much better player with a jumpshot, no question. But he was already pretty effective without it. How come we don't play more pick and roll? How come we don't screen off Tyreke's initial defender and force the defense to rotate? The article is saying that Tyreke is in a holding pattern until he develops a jumpshot but isn't it just as true that the team is in a holding pattern waiting for him to turn into a player that he's not? I understand wishing he'll become a more well-rounded player. I don't understand marginalizing him in the offense in the meantime when he's arguably the second best scorer on the team.

But then I'm not the coach. I don't have to worry about winning games to keep my job. Short-term maybe it is in Coach Smart's best interest to let Brooks and Thornton fire away if that's what gives us the best chance to win. But long-term the success of the franchise is going to depend on our ability to develop Cousins and Evans. And if Smart doesn't have that goal in mind than he's the wrong man for the job.

[Gary]

Evans may be leading the team in assists but he's not good at all when it comes to seeing the floor. He also cannot shoot. So we basically have a SG who can hit a layup, play D, and that's about it. He's like a poor mans Bruce Bowen right now, and in order to win we need to clean house and get a decent PG.

I see all these stud PGs coming into the league and we get stuck with a PG that can't play PG. It makes me a sad panda to see that. We need to rid ourselves of Evans, Brooks and possibly IT if he cannot take over the ball handling duties if/when Evans is gone. We need to draft a PG next year with our 1st pick.

We have been "winging it" for too long at PG and it shows in our crappy play and our POS TOs that turn into fast breaks because our PGs don't know how to play a lick of what a PG is supposed to be.

[Gary]

Personally I don't know why people are still defending Evans. He sucks this year and I believe his "PG play" has led to a bunch of fast break points for the other team because he's turning the ball over or dribbling into a crowd of people. We know what MT and Cousins can do. We know what Thompson and Hayes will give us. We know Robinson is a ball of energy. As for Evans??? What can he do consistently? Nothing much. He's even hit and miss when it comes to lock down defense the past couple games..

Evans needs to be traded.

[sdballer]

Personally I don't know why people are still defending Evans. He sucks this year and I believe his "PG play" has led to a bunch of fast break points for the other team because he's turning the ball over or dribbling into a crowd of people. We know what MT and Cousins can do. We know what Thompson and Hayes will give us. We know Robinson is a ball of energy. As for Evans??? What can he do consistently? Nothing much. He's even hit and miss when it comes to lock down defense the past couple games..

Evans needs to be traded.

Wish you could be traded

[Gary]

Wish you could be traded

Cry more.. Doesn't change the fact that Evans has sucked this year and it does not change the fact that you do not know the first thing about basketball.

[sdballer]

Cry more.. Doesn't change the fact that Evans has sucked this year.

His shooting has sucked. His defense has been the best on the team, along with Hayes. His passing is improved, his rebounding has been outstanding, his turnover rate has dropped.

But your right, since his shooting has sucked, he's useless.

Bottom line, I'm disappointed in his lack of development, whether that is more on him, the coaching or the culture is irrelevant. But your constant harping is borderline creepy.

[Gary]

His shooting has sucked. His defense has been the best on the team, along with Hayes. His passing is improved, his rebounding has been outstanding, his turnover rate has dropped.

But your right, since his shooting has sucked, he's useless.

Bottom line, I'm disappointed in his lack of development, whether that is more on him, the coaching or the culture is irrelevant. But your constant harping is borderline creepy.

My constant "harping" has been correct. Your constant hugging when he has sucked is what's creepy. At least I have been consistent with it since he was drafted. What was my biggest issue with drafting him? Oh yah, he can't play PG.

And are you even watching the games? His D hasn't even been consistent over the last couple games.

Not to mention you are TOTALLY over simplifying what I had said. He can't shoot so he's useless? Get some glasses man unless you are trying to bash my posts because you see my name there and didn't even bother reading what I had said. I said he has no offensive game outside of layups and he does play defense but it's been inconsistent as of late. He's a poor mans Bruce Bowen right now. He's no good at PG, he cannot shoot (which you mentioned), his defense has been inconsistent over the past couple games (a trend forming?) and his offensive game (when he has the ball) makes it harder for others to get a decent shot because the opposing teams pack the paint. They know Evans cant see the floor and they know that he can't shoot. When Evans is our PG he's in effect taking away our post game, and his drive game at the same time. Since our team cannot hit a 3pt consistently we are going to see those "hot and cold" games. Live by the outside jumper die by the outside jumper.

Also, I do kind of get tired all the hugger posts because it's always the same thing. Evans is so awesome this, and Evans is so awesome that or Evans is the only player on the team that does this, or we should build a team around Evans as our PG.. Then I get attacked by morons that don't know the first thing about basketball because some of the well liked members on the forum agree with every other well liked member so that means my opinion is wrong and I should be attacked personally. It does not bother me because at the end of the day I have been right about Evans. Kind of sucks that nobody has ever admitted that I had been right all along. But they know.....

[swisshh]

Gary, considering the choices made in the draft and free agency, what gives you any confidence in having this team draft a Point Guard?

[Gary]

I don't have any confidence that the team will draft a PG, but it should be at the top of their list as a needed position. I don't even believe there is a decent PG in the draft that's projected as a lottery pick. If I am wrong about that please correct me. I don't believe there is one. So that leaves trading for one, or signing a FA. It upsets me that a lot of us here were wanting Jrue Holiday, Dragic, Chalmers, Lawson and a few others in different drafts. Maybe next year eh?

We can't go on having opposing teams packing the paint and in effect taking away both our drive game and post game at the same time just because they see that Evans is handling the ball.

[tyreeeke]

I take it Gary hates Tyreke, ahahahahahaha.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Also, I do kind of get tired all the hugger posts because it's always the same thing. Evans is so awesome this, and Evans is so awesome that or Evans is the only player on the team that does this, or we should build a team around Evans as our PG.. Then I get attacked by morons that don't know the first thing about basketball because some of the well liked members on the forum agree with every other well liked member so that means my opinion is wrong and I should be attacked personally. It does not bother me because at the end of the day I have been right about Evans. Kind of sucks that nobody has ever admitted that I had been right all along. But they know.....

I have, on multiple occasions, stated for the record that your assessment of Evans' skills, and relative lack thereof, as a guard have been fair (which I know must gall you, seeing as how much I know you like me). A bit on the obnoxious side (Yeah, yeah, I know: pot, kettle. Deal with it), but fair. But, since 1) I don't really care about offense, and 2) we don't value the same skillset out of a guard, I'm pretty sure I never have, and never will, say that you're "right" about Evans. I think that you're, generally, accurate, in terms of what Evans can or can't do, but I also tend to think that you're wrong, in terms of why you think what he can't do is so important.

[hrdboild]

Not to mention you are TOTALLY over simplifying what I had said. He can't shoot so he's useless? Get some glasses man unless you are trying to bash my posts because you see my name there and didn't even bother reading what I had said. I said he has no offensive game outside of layups and he does play defense but it's been inconsistent as of late. He's a poor mans Bruce Bowen right now. He's no good at PG, he cannot shoot (which you mentioned), his defense has been inconsistent over the past couple games (a trend forming?) and his offensive game (when he has the ball) makes it harder for others to get a decent shot because the opposing teams pack the paint. They know Evans cant see the floor and they know that he can't shoot. When Evans is our PG he's in effect taking away our post game, and his drive game at the same time. Since our team cannot hit a 3pt consistently we are going to see those "hot and cold" games. Live by the outside jumper die by the outside jumper.

What? What you're saying in this paragraph is so muddled I don't even know how to respond. Evans being on the floor makes it impossible for the rest of the team to play offense because he forces the other team to pack the paint -- okay, that point alone is highly debatable. But then you take it further and say we're forced into being a jumpshooting team because one guy can't hit a jump shot and jumpshooting teams are inherently inconsistent. Well which is it man? Because if your final point is the crux of your argument that's exactly the reason I was arguing that Tyreke should have a bigger role in the offense -- because he's gets his points primarily off of high percentage takes to the basket and free throws.

You continue to insist that Tyreke "can't see the floor" but then how do you explain that he not only leads the team in assists this season, but has led the team in assists all four seasons that he's been on the team? It used to be people would say that he's bound to lead the team in assists when he's got the ball in his hands all the time but when he's 7th in usage% and still leads the team in assists can you still use that excuse? I brought up Rondo before as an example of a player who's thrived in a structured offense despite his inability to hit a jumpshot. Do you know how often you'll see four Boston players standing around watching Rondo handle the ball? Never. Because it doesn't happen. Do I even need to ask the next question? It answers itself.

But I'm not a Tyreke fan (or a "hugger" to use your term), I'm a Sacramento Kings fan. Always have been. I'm sure I have opinions about every player on this team that somebody would disagree with. Evans gets a lot of attention because he's a high profile player, but we can have a discussion about James Johnson or Aaron Brooks or whoever and someone is going to say we need to trade them and someone else is going to say we need to keep them and trade someone else. You don't have to marginalize people's opinions just because you disagree with them.

[rainmaker]

Cry more.. Doesn't change the fact that Evans has sucked this year and it does not change the fact that you do not know the first thing about basketball.

You might just be the most clueless poster here. Means a whole lot when you say someone else doesn't know the first thing about the sport, lol.

[Gary]

You might just be the most clueless poster here. Means a whole lot when you say someone else doesn't know the first thing about the sport, lol.

Nope, you already took that award. And yes, I have been right about him since he came in the league. So keep them jabs coming, show us your knowledge haha.

[rainmaker]

Nope, you already took that award. And yes, I have been right about him since he came in the league. So keep them jabs coming, show us your knowledge haha.

Oh, that means a lot. Half your rambles don't even make sense.

I basically responded that way as you brought up a strawman, not analysis, when saying sdballer doesn't know the first thing about basketball, which he does and has shown repeatedly. When people do provide analysis you're usually nowhere to be found anyhow. You simply wait to come in and bash Reke. Beautiful analysis on your part. Reke sucks. Reke can't play PG. Reke has no vision, Reke can't see the floor.And on and on.

Then, when someone disagrees, you call them morons and/or they don't know anything about basketball.

Uh huh....

What analysis have you ever offered besides Reke sucks and IT will be an All Star?

[sdballer]

You might just be the most clueless poster here. Means a whole lot when you say someone else doesn't know the first thing about the sport, lol.

What's funny is that even though I don't agree with all of his opinions, I do think he knows basketball. It just gets tiresome when 95% of his posts are about how Evans sucks and is killing this team. I think Evans is having a rough season and I don't know that he is going to make it on this team. Not sure where he is getting this thing about all these posters riding Evans jock. Maybe a couple years ago but that's over. I think he gets more criticism than any other player on the team. Some of it is deserved, most isn't.

Again, he hasn't developed but I pose this to the Reke bashers out there: Name another player in the league that started with so much promise and then spent 3 years dealing with awful coaching, 3 positions, multiple mixed messages on play style, a lack of complimentary pieces and poor role definitions. I tried and honestly couldn't think of another player in that situation in the last decade, let alone in someone trying to play point guard.

And finally, the whole I was right and every one needs to acknowledge it is premature and pathetic. As far as I can tell you are a grown up. Do you really need that much validation from a sports forum?

[Gary]

What? What you're saying in this paragraph is so muddled I don't even know how to respond. Evans being on the floor makes it impossible for the rest of the team to play offense because he forces the other team to pack the paint -- okay, that point alone is highly debatable. But then you take it further and say we're forced into being a jumpshooting team because one guy can't hit a jump shot and jumpshooting teams are inherently inconsistent. Well which is it man? Because if your final point is the crux of your argument that's exactly the reason I was arguing that Tyreke should have a bigger role in the offense -- because he's gets his points primarily off of high percentage takes to the basket and free throws.

You continue to insist that Tyreke "can't see the floor" but then how do you explain that he not only leads the team in assists this season, but has led the team in assists all four seasons that he's been on the team? It used to be people would say that he's bound to lead the team in assists when he's got the ball in his hands all the time but when he's 7th in usage% and still leads the team in assists can you still use that excuse? I brought up Rondo before as an example of a player who's thrived in a structured offense despite his inability to hit a jumpshot. Do you know how often you'll see four Boston players standing around watching Rondo handle the ball? Never. Because it doesn't happen. Do I even need to ask the next question? It answers itself.

But I'm not a Tyreke fan (or a "hugger" to use your term), I'm a Sacramento Kings fan. Always have been. I'm sure I have opinions about every player on this team that somebody would disagree with. Evans gets a lot of attention because he's a high profile player, but we can have a discussion about James Johnson or Aaron Brooks or whoever and someone is going to say we need to trade them and someone else is going to say we need to keep them and trade someone else. You don't have to marginalize people's opinions just because you disagree with them.

First off I have said I am not very good at explaining my points multiple times. Just so we are clear on that. I tend to ramble.

He leads the team in assists because he's the main ball handler (I don't like to call him a PG). Leading this team in assists is not a feat to brag about. And you cannot compare Rondo to Evans. Rondo is a PG and can actually pass the ball well, sees the floor well and gets others involved.

For the last three years we have had players "standing around" when Evans had the ball because he would hold it. He would dribble up the court and basically hold the ball, like Salmons does when he has the ball. If it would take players that run around to get Evans to pass the ball consistently then I would be all for it. But right now he's not doing that.

Last couple of points;
1. A hugger is someone who likes a player and overvalues him because they can't see past their love to find the flaws.
2. I have to be on the "defensive". I constantly get attacked because I do not like one specific player. It's not a huge deal because the people that do attack are "no nothing know it alls". It's a clique of about 10 or so longtime members who all agree on the same things and god forbid someone disagrees with them lol. This goes back three years when we drafted him and I said he was not a PG and had pretty much the whole board say he was and said that I have no clue how Evans plays even though a lot of them admitted that they had not seen him in college and I had.