The Popcorn Machine (split from grades thread)

**Section 101** · 11-08-2012, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Reke 13 Havoc

hate to break it to you but were not getting anywhere near the Playoffs unless we ride the shoulders of DeMarcus Cousins, just like Bricklayer said, let him play as long as he can stay on the floor. we need him out there

And we go nowhere if he breaks down and gets injured.

**allrightythen** · 11-08-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bricklayer

What will be interesting will be when Salmons returns. In theory that shoudl give us our backup SF, even if he is half guard. In turn that would not only squeeze out Jimmer, but maybe MT as well if taken too far. And its not as if JJ can be bumped up to PF with all of JT/Hayes, TRob there. So...too many bodies.

Very true and funny as I looked up James Johnson's measurements last because I had the PF thought while watching the game. It would be frustrating to see Jimmer and TRob ride the bench and kill what value they may have. I really hope Thornton's minutes are not meaningfully affected. Despite his flaws he belongs on the court.

**rainmaker** · 11-08-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

And we go nowhere if he breaks down and gets injured.

I'd argue sitting players for 25+ mins real time, including timeouts, is a far greater risk for injury, knowing what I know about how the human body works.

What's a greater risk for injury? Getting warmed up and running three miles, or running a mile, sitting down for 25 mins, immediately running another mile, sitting down for 20 mins, then running another mile?

There's plenty of science which backs that up. Muscles tighten and get cold. Lose flexibility. Greatly increase chance of injury.

**Section 101** · 11-08-2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'd argue sitting players for 25+ mins real time, including timeouts, is a far greater risk for injury, knowing what I know about how the human body works.

What's a greater risk for injury? Getting warmed up and running three miles, or running a mile, sitting down for 25 mins, immediately running another mile, sitting down for 20 mins, then running another mile?

There's plenty of science which backs that up.

I think Sloan and Stockton disproved it for basketball.

**rainmaker** · 11-08-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

I think Sloan and Stockton disproved it for basketball.

Uh, how so? How does one coach and one player disprove science?

**Section 101** · 11-08-2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Uh, how so? How does one coach and one player disprove science?

Because he was maximizing his rest and he never missed a game?

I think over playing someone not only has a greater risk for injury, but a more serious injury as well. Where someone coming off the bench cold is more likely to pull a muscle.

And your comparing apples and oranges to NBA and running. Two different types of conditioning. Runners aren't constantly stopping and starting, taking breaks etc. NBA players are used to it. I'm sure if NBA players were asked to run a marathon without any training they would have some problems too.

**rainmaker** · 11-08-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

Because he was maximizing his rest and he never missed a game?

I think over playing someone not only has a greater risk for injury, but a more serious injury as well. Where someone coming off the bench cold is more likely to pull a muscle.

And your comparing apples and oranges to NBA and running. Two different types of conditioning. Runners aren't constantly stopping and starting, taking breaks etc. NBA players are used to it. I'm sure if NBA players were asked to run a marathon without any training they would have some problems too.

That doesn't touch the actual rotations. Stockton was given more breathers as he got older. Sub out earlier, then return, sub out, then return. Sloan didn't just sit him for 25+ mins regularly.

And actually, with the way the body works, it's not apples and oranges. How much do you know about how sprinters train? Forget marathoners. You think sprinters during their workouts, do ten sprints, sit and tighten up for 30 mins, run ten more, and repeat? This rule applies for just about any sport. You tighten up.

**Kingster** · 11-08-2012, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Reke 13 Havoc

i think splitting minutes with IT/Brooks is the only one thats acceptable. a lot of us might not agree, but its arguable that they should split minutes. but the rest of the roster should not be this way. Tyreke should be playing 38mpg, Cousins should be playing 38-40mpg if he doesnt have foul trouble, yet Coach is only playing Cousins 32mpg even when hes not in foul trouble.....

So Thornton gets 10 minutes under that scenario, right? Unless you want Tyreke back at the 3.

**Reke 13 Havoc** · 11-08-2012, 03:25 PM

you have to have a little bit of Tyreke at the 3 or at the 1 (which i would prefer over him playing SF) to get thornton 30 minutes. its one of the only smart things the coach has actually been doing

**Section 101** · 11-08-2012, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by rainmaker

That doesn't touch the actual rotations. Stockton was given more breathers as he got older. Sub out earlier, then return, sub out, then return. Sloan didn't just sit him for 25+ mins regularly.

And actually, with the way the body works, it's not apples and oranges. How much do you know about how sprinters train? Forget marathoners. You think sprinters during their workouts, do ten sprints, sit and tighten up for 30 mins, run ten more, and repeat? This rule applies for just about any sport. You tighten up.

Yes he did sit out for 25 mins. Pulled with like 4 mins left in the quarter then came back with like 6 mins left in the half. That was 10 mins of game time, 4 timeouts and over 25 mins total.

Yes and sprinters train different than the NBA. NBA players are used to going in and out. Now if your talking about putting someone in that has been on the bench for the last minute of a half then ya they will be cold since warm ups. But someone who routinely plays then sits is used to it.

**rainmaker** · 11-08-2012, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

Yes he did sit out for 25 mins. Pulled with like 4 mins left in the quarter then came back with like 6 mins left in the half. That was 10 mins of game time, 4 timeouts and over 25 mins total.

Yes and sprinters train different than the NBA. NBA players are used to going in and out. Now if your talking about putting someone in that has been on the bench for the last minute of a half then ya they will be cold since warm ups. But someone who routinely plays then sits is used to it.

Yeah, still nothing here which says it's a less of a risk of injury than Cuz playing 38 mins instead of 35. If it wasn't a greater injury risk, tightening up while sitting for half an hour, the training habits of athletes across all sports would be a lot different.

Nothing you've stated changes what is common knowledge in training rooms around the world. Trying to get used to sitting for 30 mins at a time doesn't mean it isn't an injury risk, and definitely doesn't mean it's less of an injury risk than Cuz playing 3-5 more mins when he's already warm.

**Bricklayer** · 11-08-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Section 101

Different era. Can't compare to today.

Only 2 centers today are over 36 mins, Noah at 39 and Marc Gasol at 37.3.

Howard is right at 36.
DMC is 9th.

Last year 2 centers over 36.

Howard 38.3
M. Gasol 36.5

10-11 Again 2 centers, Howard and Bosh.

You can go look going back farther, but there are not many averaging over 36.

That's because they aren't good enough to. No other reason. Cousins is. He needs huge minutes like any other franchise player on the right side of 30. He's no delicate little flower you need to treat with kid gloves.

**Prog** · 11-08-2012, 08:10 PM

Very interesting site. The only other team with similarly stupid substitution pattern is the Wizards, and they lost all their games so far. 'nuff said.

**Reke 13 Havoc** · 11-09-2012, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Prog

Very interesting site. The only other team with similarly stupid substitution pattern is the Wizards, and they lost all their games so far. 'nuff said.

exactly